2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Pancho 44757]

CNN segment just now and just a quick summary of the segment...

 

Reporter:  Are you still supportive of trump and still think he will be president in January?

All 3 trumplings:  Yes of course

Reporter:  Does it bother you that he has presented no evidence whatsoever that there was voter fraud?  Do you believe he’s just duping you?

1 trampling - Well, yeah, it bothers me.

2nd trampling - Well, i guess it’s wishful thinking that he will be president come January.

3rd trumpling - *silence* .......... Well to be honest, I don’t know why he would want the job anymore considering how he’s been treated.

 

These.

People.

Are.

Batshit. 

[wildcat09 29349]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, what he said was that they have not found fraud on a scale that would change the outcome of the election, and this is an important distinction.

Fraud, human error, logistical issues and both inadvertent and intentional procedural violations happen in every election. The Trump campaign is largely taking that fact and through the addition of fantasy trying to alchemically transform it into evidence of a massive, coordinated fraud conspiracy. 
 

So that’s what Barr is saying- not that there is no evidence of at least some wrongdoing, because we can assume there is the usual amount or perhaps even much more because of the unique circumstances of massive turnout and a pandemic, but that they haven’t found either the scale or coordination required to turn the loser into the winner 

Barr and whatever is left of the GOP that see the party as being more than Trump are trying to convince their voters that massive coordinated fraud didn't happen in this case without admitting that everything they've said for decades about massive coordinated Democratic voter fraud has always been lies.

That's not a tight rope any of them have the ability to actually walk. They're either going to have to admit they were always lying, or double down on the lies. I don't think any sane person would be willing to put money on the former.

[Biff Tannen 45673]

28 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Here’s the question for 2022: will Trumpy low propensity voters come out without Trump on the ticket? They stayed home in 2018.

Will core Democrats stay motivated for 2022? If not, they could very well lose 20-30 seats in the house.

For the first set, I'm not even sure they understand what midterms are.  If dotard name isn't there, they won't vote, is my feeling.

For the second set, they fucking better.

[Beau Vine 54211]

9 hours ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I chuckled at declaring a constitutional amendment unconstitutional.  He would try though.  Fuck him.  

Wouldn't he go straight for 13-15, though?

[SimonBolivar 10958]

34 minutes ago, Pancho said:

CNN segment just now and just a quick summary of the segment...

 

Reporter:  Are you still supportive of trump and still think he will be president in January?

All 3 trumplings:  Yes of course

Reporter:  Does it bother you that he has presented no evidence whatsoever that there was voter fraud?  Do you believe he’s just duping you?

1 trampling - Well, yeah, it bothers me.

2nd trampling - Well, i guess it’s wishful thinking that he will be president come January.

3rd trumpling - *silence* .......... Well to be honest, I don’t know why he would want the job anymore considering how he’s been treated.

 

These.

People.

Are.

Batshit. 

I heard that segment on Sirius and the last question about whether it was possible the American people elected Biden was great.

 

"It's possible, but not probable"....lulz thanks a lot Lieutenant Commander Data.

[wildcat09 29349]

There's a Surly poster who thinks constitutional amendments are unconstitutional so I'd guess that something like 1/3rd of Americans would probably fall for that shit.

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

zero-integrity clown and personal friend of @TahoeHorn Mo Brooks weighs in:

 

[Js1 85311]

Ok cool.

Go ahead and do it.   You don't have the House votes to win a challenge.  Between Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Toomey and Sasse who have acknolwedged Biden won and is President-Elect, your challenge will fail in the Senate.

[jimmyjazz 45898]

Counting errors in the vote should be roughly proportional to the distribution of support; in this case, 80/154 = 52%/48% Biden/Trump.  In other words, they should largely balance out.

If there isn't even enough evidence of fraud to flip the tighter swing states, that is tacit admission that there was virtually no fraud.  (< 13K in GA, < 11K in AZ)

[Lagunamadre 1975]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Here’s the question for 2022: will Trumpy low propensity voters come out without Trump on the ticket? They stayed home in 2018.

Will core Democrats stay motivated for 2022? If not, they could very well lose 20-30 seats in the house.

My hope is that Trump has somewhat faded into the background and only the fully committed cultist are still concerned with him. The US Presidency is the largest bully pulpit in the world, so come Jan. 21, we will hear a lot less of Trump, he will be mostly subjugated to the boy who cried wolf on twitter and flippant message board chatter. Barring some sort of criminal conviction or health scare, Lester Holt will not be leading off his nightly news with the Trump news de jur and his reach will naturally lessen. 

Assuming the above happens then I would venture both sides will have less enthusiasm, the trump cultist will stay home and bang their cousin and anti-trumpers will stay at home because none of the mid-term candidates agreed to paint the US Capitol rainbow colors. Then the state of affairs will matter much more. If the vaccine works and we are in a mostly post-covid world by the end of  2021 and we go into the second iteration of the roaring 20's, then I think the Dems will do well. If the damage is done by the virus and treasury's printing presses are shut down by Cocaine Mitch, then things could get pretty ugly. 

[Js1 85311]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Counting errors in the vote should be roughly proportional to the distribution of support; in this case, 80/154 = 52%/48% Biden/Trump.  In other words, they should largely balance out.

If there isn't even enough evidence of fraud to flip the tighter swing states, that is tacit admission that there was virtually no fraud.  (< 13K in GA, < 11K in AZ)

We've had more challenges in Nevada (Biden +2), Michigan (Biden +3) and PA (Biden +1.2) and nary a single challenge to NC (Trump +1.3), where the margin of victory was half of Michigan's margin. 

[Tuco 5076]

10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Ok cool.

Go ahead and do it.   You don't have the House votes to win a challenge.  Between Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Toomey and Sasse who have acknolwedged Biden won and is President-Elect, your challenge will fail in the Senate.

Yep.  But it would be nice to get every Republican on record either voting the for the Constitution or voting for Trump. 

[27-25 2047]

36 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There's a Surly poster who thinks constitutional amendments are unconstitutional so I'd guess that something like 1/3rd of Americans would probably fall for that shit.

So, no 2A?  Interesting.

[Brisketexan 105095]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Yep.  But it would be nice to get every Republican on record either voting the for the Constitution or voting for Trump. 

We already have that.  It's the (R) next to their name.  There is no GOP, only the Party of Trump.  And, to that end, I move that we put the term "GOP" in its grave, and refer to them as the "POT" from now on.

[Brisketexan 105095]

Just now, 27-25 said:

So, no 2A?  Interesting.

No, see, the 2A is the only REAL part of the Constitution.  Well, that, and part of the 1A -- you know, the part that says "so long as you use 'religion' as your reason, you can do anything you want, and the government can't do anything about it."  Yep, that's the Constitution, in its entirety.

Jury is still out on the 12th amendment, which says "state legislatures can select electors for POTUS whenever and however they want, especially if they want to tilt the election in favor of the sitting POTUS, without regard for a single vote cast by a citizen."  DO THE RESEARCH!

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Here’s the question for 2022: will Trumpy low propensity voters come out without Trump on the ticket? They stayed home in 2018.

Will core Democrats stay motivated for 2022? If not, they could very well lose 20-30 seats in the house.

This is why I have said for a long time that 2022 has the potential to be very good for Democrats.

Mid-term elections are usually very bad for the president's party.  That's because it is typically a referendum on the president's performance, and Americans are a bunch of malcontents.  So the president's party typically loses to some greater or lesser degree.

But that dynamic is only present when the predecessor president has the good sense to fade into the background and let the mid-terms be a referendum on the incumbent.  What about Trump would lead anybody to the conclusion that he could either fade into the background or let anything be about someone other than himself.  He'll go out there and do his Trump thing, which in turn will energize Democrats.

But at the same time, you're right--Trump has shown no ability to mobilize his voters for other Republicans.  A lot of Trump's voters are the lowest of low-propensity voters.  They don't show up in presidential elections in which Trump isn't on the ballot; they're damned sure as hell not going to show up for a mid-term election to vote for Pat fucking Toomey.

[RDCanecutter 26411]

11 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

What a disgrace he has been to the Office of the President. 

Somebody's gotta be worse than Jefferson Davis.

[tx 3 putt 76905]

16 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Yep.  But it would be nice to get every Republican on record either voting the for the Constitution or voting for Trump. 

100% this 

[RPM 26318]

He may leave, but he's going to go full grift. He's already filed for 2024 in advance giving him campaign fundraising. He'll be on a weekly tour of rallies pulling a full P.T. Barnum. The only thing that will stop him is jail. They found a golden ticket with political fundraising. The big difference is he's not going to have free transportation on AF1.

Edited December 2, 2020 by RPM
unfortunate typo

[Biff Tannen 45673]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And, to that end, I move that we put the term "GOP" in its grave, and refer to them as the "POT" from now on.

I second this motion.

[Biff Tannen 45673]

3 minutes ago, RPM said:

He may leave, but he's going to go full grift. He's already filed for 2024 in advance giving him campaign fundraising. He'll be on a weekly tour of rallies pulling a full P.T. Barnum. The only thing that will stop him is jail. They found a golden ticket with political fundraising.

100% truth.  The rest of his life will be fleecing these rubes and trying to stay out of prison.

[RPM 26318]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And, to that end, I move that we put the term "GOP" in its grave, and refer to them as the "POT" from now on.

Isn't POS more accurate?

[Js1 85311]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

This is why I have said for a long time that 2022 has the potential to be very good for Democrats.

Mid-term elections are usually very bad for the president's party.  That's because it is typically a referendum on the president's performance, and Americans are a bunch of malcontents.  So the president's party typically loses to some greater or lesser degree.

But that dynamic is only present when the predecessor president has the good sense to fade into the background and let the mid-terms be a referendum on the incumbent.  What about Trump would lead anybody to the conclusion that he could either fade into the background or let anything be about someone other than himself.  He'll go out there and do his Trump thing, which in turn will energize Democrats.

But at the same time, you're right--Trump has shown no ability to mobilize his voters for other Republicans.  A lot of Trump's voters are the lowest of low-propensity voters.  They don't show up in presidential elections in which Trump isn't on the ballot; they're damned sure as hell not going to show up for a mid-term election to vote for Pat fucking Toomey.

Also, yes, midterms generally suck for a president's party, BUT...........

Unless we hit the lottery and win the Senate races in GA, Biden will not have a first term trifecta.  The last time two times that happened was 1988 and 2000 (technically, since Jeffords switched 6 months into Bush's presidency and flipped the Senate)

I've said all along, COVID-19 will be Biden's 9/11.  Biden and the Democrats will not get crushed in the 2022 midterms because the vaccine and return to normalcy will resonate with voters.  No massive progressive legislation or leftward lurch will also not lead to massive backlash. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Js1

[tx 3 putt 76905]

R’s had the first term trifecta for two years and pissed it away 

[Js1 85311]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

R’s had the first term trifecta for two years and pissed it away 

Psh, they passed their 1% tax cuts.  #winning

[Neonmoon 38129]

Giggle

[tx 3 putt 76905]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Giggle

More lawsuits !!!!

[atomheartbevo 89648]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Ok cool.

Go ahead and do it.   You don't have the House votes to win a challenge.  Between Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Toomey and Sasse who have acknolwedged Biden won and is President-Elect, your challenge will fail in the Senate.

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

Yep.  But it would be nice to get every Republican on record either voting the for the Constitution or voting for Trump. 

Preferably get them on the record before the Georgia runoff next month, but unfortunately there's a day's difference between the two.  But they'll still be on the record for 2022.

 

[atomheartbevo 89648]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

zero-integrity clown and personal friend of @TahoeHorn Mo Brooks weighs in:

 

This is the proper response.

[RPM 26318]

47 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

R’s had the first term trifecta for two years and pissed it away 

Democrats weren't any better when they had it.

[Scheiss Meister 8407]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

An even dumber strategy: the other guy isn't just the US government.  It's multiple state governments as well.  He's foolishly fighting a multi-front war.  And losing badly on every front.

Shit, he's even more like Hitler than we thought.

He's always reminded me of Mussolini more.  Lots of loudmouth posing, full of bombast, and ineffective.  I hope his idol Putin doesn't try to pull a Hitler and save him.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Scheiss Meister

[Biff Tannen 45673]

53 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Psh, they passed their 1% tax cuts.  #winning

Literally this. That’s all they cared about. Now it’s up to Dems to actually fix shit. Again. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

This is why I have said for a long time that 2022 has the potential to be very good for Democrats.

Mid-term elections are usually very bad for the president's party.  That's because it is typically a referendum on the president's performance, and Americans are a bunch of malcontents.  So the president's party typically loses to some greater or lesser degree.

But that dynamic is only present when the predecessor president has the good sense to fade into the background and let the mid-terms be a referendum on the incumbent.  What about Trump would lead anybody to the conclusion that he could either fade into the background or let anything be about someone other than himself.  He'll go out there and do his Trump thing, which in turn will energize Democrats.

But at the same time, you're right--Trump has shown no ability to mobilize his voters for other Republicans.  A lot of Trump's voters are the lowest of low-propensity voters.  They don't show up in presidential elections in which Trump isn't on the ballot; they're damned sure as hell not going to show up for a mid-term election to vote for Pat fucking Toomey.

This is a good post and I agree with you on all counts. Ironically, I think Trump is going to give Republicans the worst of both worlds for the next 4 years. I think he's going to stay in public and motivate Democrats but because his moral universe is exclusively transactional and he sees anybody else's gain as his loss, I don't think he will help Republicans in the 2022 mid-terms because he wouldn't get anything out of it. Look how little he did in 2018.

However- I think real danger exists in 2022 for house Democrats because of the combination of redistricting post-census in Texas and Florida, and because of the phenomenon of oppositional partisanship. That being said, Trump has created such a mess that Biden has the opportunity to make a clear, tangible and immediate impact in the lives of voters, and to get them to take physical actions he's facilitating. That's powerful. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Ghost of LL 15531]

 

49 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is a good post and I agree with you on all counts. Ironically, I think Trump is going to give Republicans the worst of both worlds for the next 4 years. I think he's going to stay in public and motivate Democrats but because his moral universe is exclusively transactional and he sees anybody else's gain as his loss, I don't think he will help Republicans in the 2022 mid-terms because he wouldn't get anything out of it. Look how little he did in 2018.

However- I think real danger exists in 2022 for house Democrats because of the combination of redistricting post-census in Texas and Florida, and because of the phenomenon of oppositional partisanship. That being said, Trump has created such a mess that Biden has the opportunity to make a clear, tangible and immediate impact in the lives of voters, and to get them to take physical actions he's facilitating. That's powerful. 

A couple things on this:

1) I think you assume too much when you say that redistricting will be in place in time for the mid-terms.  The Census Bureau has already said that it won't have the numbers to publish to the White House by January 20.  That gives Biden an opportunity to reopen the Census and tell them to go back and do it again (and do it right, this time) on account of the Covid national emergency.  That would delay the numbers well past 2022.

2) If I were a real stinker, I would advise Democrats to find third-party candidates to run in various districts on the platform "[Insert Republican Incumbent Here] didn't do enough to help Trump when the evil Dems stole the election from him!".  In a number of districts, you could completely split the Trumpublican vote with that kind of candidate.  In other districts, you may just get five percent, but it'd be enough for the Dem to win.

But I'm not a real stinker.  And the trouble with that strategy is that some of them would get elected.

But the flip-side of that is that some of those type of people already have gotten elected (see, e.g., Marjorie Taylor Greene).  So who really gives a fuck?

[Biff Tannen 45673]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

If I were a real stinker, I would advise Democrats to find third-party candidates to run in various districts on the platform "[Insert Republican Incumbent Here] didn't do enough to help Trump when the evil Dems stole the election from him!".  In a number of districts, you could completely split the Trumpublican vote with that kind of candidate.  In other districts, you may just get five percent, but it'd be enough for the Dem to win.

Rs already did this in Florida.  Shadow candidates that didn't exist and siphoned votes from Dems. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

 

A couple things on this:

1) I think you assume too much when you say that redistricting will be in place in time for the mid-terms.  The Census Bureau has already said that it won't have the numbers to publish to the White House by January 20.  That gives Biden an opportunity to reopen the Census and tell them to go back and do it again (and do it right, this time) on account of the Covid national emergency.  That would delay the numbers well past 2022.

2) If I were a real stinker, I would advise Democrats to find third-party candidates to run in various districts on the platform "[Insert Republican Incumbent Here] didn't do enough to help Trump when the evil Dems stole the election from him!".  In a number of districts, you could completely split the Trumpublican vote with that kind of candidate.  In other districts, you may just get five percent, but it'd be enough for the Dem to win.

But I'm not a real stinker.  And the trouble with that strategy is that some of them would get elected.

But the flip-side of that is that some of those type of people already have gotten elected (see, e.g., Marjorie Taylor Greene).  So who really gives a fuck?

You may be on to something with #2. Hell, Lin Wood is at this very moment standing in front of a large crowd and with a streaming audience of a few hundfed thousand people calling for patriotic Georgians to boycott the senate race unless Kemp, Purdue and Loeffler call a special sessian of the legislature to give georgia's electors to Donald Trump. He's calling for an "American Patriot Party" outside of the GOP, a Flynn/Powell 2024 ticket with Vernon Jones for Governor.  I think it's possible that the Trumps are threatening to Bull Moose the GOP. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Js1 85311]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Rs already did this in Florida.  Shadow candidates that didn't exist and siphoned votes from Dems. 

Rs already finance Green candidates in some places. That’s why it stands for Getting Republicans Elected Every November 

[Brisketexan 105095]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You may be on to something with #2. Hell, Lin Wood is at this very moment standing in front of a large crowd and with a streaming audience of a few hundfed thousand people calling for patriotic Georgians to boycott the senate race unless Kemp, Purdue and Loeffler call a special sessian of the legislature to give georgia's electors to Donald Trump. He's calling for an "American Patriot Party" outside of the GOP, a Flynn/Powell 2024 ticket with Vernon Jones for Governor.  I think it's possible that the Trumps are threatening to Bull Moose the GOP. 

With party chair Donald Trump, Jr.  Please donate to support this Patriotic Citizens Party now!  All of your donations to this party will be used to Make America Great Again!*

 

*  After paying the salaries of our brilliant Party staff, Donald Jr., Ivanka, Eric, and the man himself, Donald Trump, who are each being paid the piddly amount of $50 million per year, when they are each worth easily 10X as much.

 

Tell me why that doesn't happen?

[Ghost of LL 15531]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You may be on to something with #2. Hell, Lin Wood is at this very moment standing in front of a large crowd and with a streaming audience of a few hundfed thousand people calling for patriotic Georgians to boycott the senate race unless Kemp, Purdue and Loeffler call a special sessian of the legislature to give georgia's electors to Donald Trump. He's calling for an "American Patriot Party" outside of the GOP, a Flynn/Powell 2024 ticket with Vernon Jones for Governor.  I think it's possible that the Trumps are threatening to Bull Moose the GOP. 

That they're doing it to themselves is helpful.  But there are definitely candidates in a lot of House districts across this great land of ours that would need some help getting on the ballot and getting the word out of the incumbent Republican's failure to support our great President.

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Rs already finance Green candidates in some places. That’s why it stands for Getting Republicans Elected Every November 

Yes, they do.

But here's the thing--Republicans don't believe in democracy.  So they can do this kind of shit without running afoul of their conscience.  I'm not so sure that's true of Democrats.

The counter-argument is that if Democrats want to save democracy, they need to get a whole lot more comfortable with some of its less savory aspects.

[Pato del Muerto 52489]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You may be on to something with #2. Hell, Lin Wood is at this very moment standing in front of a large crowd and with a streaming audience of a few hundfed thousand people calling for patriotic Georgians to boycott the senate race unless Kemp, Purdue and Loeffler call a special sessian of the legislature to give georgia's electors to Donald Trump. He's calling for an "American Patriot Party" outside of the GOP, a Flynn/Powell 2024 ticket with Vernon Jones for Governor.  I think it's possible that the Trumps are threatening to Bull Moose the GOP. 

Question:  if that were to happen, would the less zealous Rs just follow along to keep dems out of office, try to stay the course while not being able to attain many offices themselves drift to center to entice moderate Democrats to them such that we have far right, centrist, and far left parties, or leak into the Democratic Party?

[bad_teammate 13194]

Sub-47%?

LOL LOSER

['stache 21802]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Sub-47%?

LOL LOSER

And yet the second most votes of any presidential candidate in history. How shitty do you have to be to pull that one off, lol.

[Jive Turkey 12594]

Trump has dropped a new speech about the election. Wowzers.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Jive Turkey

[Neonmoon 38129]

That speech was pure INSANITY

 

Transcribed. 

"Thank you. This may be the most important speech I've ever made. I want to provide an update on our ongoing efforts to expose the tremendous voter fraud and irregularities which took place during the ridiculously long November 3rd elections. We used to have what was called election day. Now we have election days, weeks and months and lots of bad things happened during this ridiculous period of time. Especially when you have to prove almost nothing to exercise our greatest privilege, the right to vote. As President I have no higher duty than to defend the laws and the Constitution of the United States. That is why I am determined to protect our election system that is now under coordinated assault and siege. 

For months leading up to the Presidential Election, we were warned that we should not declare a premature victory. We were told repeatedly it would take weeks if not months to determine the winner, to count the absentee ballots and to verify the results. 

My opponent was told to stay away from the election, don't campaign, we don't need you, we've got it, this election is done. In fact, they were acting like they already knew what the outcome was going to be. They had it covered, and perhaps they did, very sadly for our country. It was all very very strange. Within days after the election, we witnessed an orchestrated effort to anoint a winner even while many key states were still being counted.  The constitutional process must be allowed to continue. We are going to defend the honesty of the vote by insuring that every legal ballot is counted and that no illegal ballot is counted. This is not just about honoring the votes of 74 million Americans that voted for me, it's about insuring that Americans can have faith in this election and all future elections. "

Edited December 2, 2020 by Neonmoon

[4th&Five 41525]

He should be in a padded room. Nut job. 

[Jive Turkey 12594]

Full length version is 47 minutes. 

['stache 21802]

That piece was literally the same shit we've heard since the election. "We want all legal votes counted and all illegal votes nullified, and if that happens, I win bigly." There's no fucking evidence you fucking clown.

I hate that man and his enablers so fucking much. I have always been fascinated with the history of our species. I've always read in horror how people could be so violent, watching public hangings and beheadings, seeing how dictators were disposed of, with people in the streets mutilating bodies. It still shocks my conscious that people are capable of that, but I'm starting to better understand the anger that can lead to that. My god, they are trying to nullify a legal election and to disenfranchise 53% of the voters. That is pure evil, and evil deserves bad things. 

[AnTiM 1666]

16 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

That speech was pure INSANITY

 

Which proves the case against that p.o.s.

[AnTiM 1666]

Now I am hoping that whoever carries the briefcase around with our launch codes in it is not as fucking crazy as Trump is.

[4th&Five 41525]

18 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Full length version is 47 minutes. 

Holy shit it is! Fucking whack job.