2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Fudge Nuggets 19144]

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Well, and became a law school professor, started a legal aid clinic, partner at a law firm, co founded a non profit, worked as a congressional staff attorney during Watergate, and well, a ton of other shit, a lot of it before marrying Bill Clinton. If you want to say her political life took off after Bill, find I guess. Seems a bit disingenuous to me, but I guess you could make that argument. But to say she underachieved is frankly disgusting and, yes, sexist. She was successful by pretty much any measure, even among Yale law school graduates.  I say all this not even liking her that much. But I sure as shit respect what she accomplished and her dedication to providing legal representation to those that usually can't get it. 

I've often wondered if Bill had not married Hillary, would he have been as successful as he was?  Seems she has the kind of personality to keep that horn dog somewhat focused enough to accomplish his their goals.  No one is going to 100% stop a horn dog from horn dogging, but she was tough enough to make sure it didn't sink their aspirations.

[Fudge Nuggets 19144]

9 hours ago, lemonlime said:

Why are you derailing this

Because that's what he does in every fucking thread.

[jimmyjazz 45538]

9 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Again- read what I wrote. Her political career was launched by being flotus. 

I read what you wrote.  What you wrote is incorrect.

[Continental Op 3934]

We are very smart people arguing about someone who isn't running for anything right now!

[SilasCoade 2620]

10 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Read what I wrote again dude- that wasn’t what you quoted as disagreeing with. 
see- this is my issue- I said her political career was launched by being bills spouse and that was objective fact. Which it is. 
then you called me dumb and said “because her husband was Bill Clinton” which is literally not at all what I said. Those two statements are completely different. One is objectively, factually true- which is the one I said was objectively factually true, and the other one is opinion that I never said, with invective thrown in for good measure. 
tou are being completely and totally intellectually dishonest and you are twisting my words to be something that I didn’t say, then you are ascribing to me a position I didn’t take, and then you are personally insulting me for having this “dumb” opinion that’s not, actually, you know, my opinion at all. 

Is not an objective fact at all. At best it is your reasonable inference from two facts : she has a political career and that career occurred after marrying Bill. But that's what it is an inference not a fact. It is wholly unverifiable and wholly untestable. It is your opinion that the reason for her career was Bill. Great that might even be reasonable but it's not a fact by definition. 

[kevwun 15608]

Fuckers will be but Hillarying elections for the next 50 years.

[Brisketexan 104537]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Seriously, wake up to two pages of this train wreck and in the other thread it’s a three way death match about the film school versus literally merits and subtext of Heinlin’s Starship Troopers Vs. Verhoven’s Starship Troopers -- WITHOUT EVEN POSTING PICS OF THE BOOBS FROM THE MOVIE!
 

Fuck all of you. 

FIF capturing the biggest problem with the discussion.

[Brisketexan 104537]

Oh, and also....check out the USPS thread, and the things being OPENLY STATED BY THE ADMINISTRATION RIGHT NOW, IN REAL-TIME.

Told y'all Trump is going to be "re-elected" -- we've long since had our last free and fair presidential election.  The criminal gang that is the GOP just flat-out doesn't care -- they know that they have to cheat to win, so cheat they will.  And it will work.

[Snake Diggity 4614]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and also....check out the USPS thread, and the things being OPENLY STATED BY THE ADMINISTRATION RIGHT NOW, IN REAL-TIME.

Told y'all Trump is going to be "re-elected" -- we've long since had our last free and fair presidential election.  The criminal gang that is the GOP just flat-out doesn't care -- they know that they have to cheat to win, so cheat they will.  And it will work.

This attitude assumes Democrats have no say in the matter.  Will Biden’s team just lay down if it’s obvious the election was stolen?  Is the GOP going to steal the down ballot elections too?  If Trump cheats, but ends up with a blue congress, he will be impeached.  
 

I agree Trump will try to steal the election (and already is trying).  But I for one can say that if I feel like the election was rigged, there will be violence.  Enough is enough.  
 

In the end tho, I don’t expect that outcome.  I expect Biden to win with 300+ EV, and for Trump to create his own TV network.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Snake Diggity

[Biff Tannen 45491]

Just now, Snake Diggity said:

But I for one can say that if I feel like the election was rigged, there will be violence.  Enough is enough.

We certainly agree here.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Surly, when I post in CR about the election...

 

[Ghost of LL 15469]

 

10 hours ago, Planet Houston said:

Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps Hillary helped her husband’s political career - especially early on? Or are wives not really part of that whole “partnership” thing? 

Your grasp of simple human interaction and relationships is staggeringly deficient. 

Let's just step back from the Hillary thing for a minute and observe that it is undoubtedly true that successful politicians and non-politicians benefit very frequently become successful because of a supportive spouse.  And when the supportive spouse is skilled in the same field, then it is a force multiplier.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg certainly benefited from the fact that Martin was one of the most skilled tax attorneys of his generation.  They were able to develop legal arguments together in some of the cases that launched both their careers.

Margaret Thatcher benefited from the fact that Denis was a wealthy businessman who financed her education and early political career.  Thatcher also benefited from the fact that Denis was a good-humored and engaging chap who humanized and softened the perception of her, which was tremendously helpful for a woman in that era.  And for his part, Denis got a baronetcy out of the deal, which is pretty sweet.

It's also true that there are plenty of men whose marriages have been determinative in their success.  Bill Clinton is almost certainly one of those men.  Let's leave aside the fact that she is the one who enforced discipline on his campaigns.  If she doesn't eat shit on national television for him in 1992, he doesn't even get the nomination.

I think the difference with Hillary is (1) she would've been the first, and the first always gets greater scrutiny, and (2) the spousal assistance was so out-front, rather than the relatively behind-the-scenes help that Martin Ginsburg, Denis Thatcher, and Hillary herself gave to their spouses.

If you don't think those are meaningful differences, then that's fine.  But I don't think that identifying those differences bespeaks misogyny.

And, for the record, @Bama Chick can shove her "your daughters are watching" shit right up her ass.  If she has something to say about my parenting of my daughter, then she can say it directly.

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

13 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I agree Trump will try to steal the election (and already is trying).  But I for one can say that if I feel like the election was rigged, there will be violence.  Enough is enough.

This is a rule of humanity.  People WILL insist on the ability to determine their own future.  The choice is always "ballots or bullets."  If you deny the people ballots, they will inevitably resort to bullets.  The path the GOP is going down is a REALLY fucking dangerous one, because what they are doing is saying "we'll cheat you out of your vote, and we DARE YOU to do something about it."  That's fucking stupid.  Because eventually, someone will take you up on the dare.  At some point, people SHOULD take anti-democratic despots up on the dare.

I've been telling you we're headed for the most dangerous period in our history since the Civil War, and we are barreling forward towards it right now, with the GOP openly telling us that's exactly what's happening.

[SydneyCarton 47836]

15 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

This attitude assumes Democrats have no say in the matter.  Will Biden’s team just lay down if it’s obvious the election was stolen?  Is the GOP going to steal the down ballot elections too?  If Trump cheats, but ends up with a blue congress, he will be impeached.  
 

I agree Trump will try to steal the election (and already is trying).  But I for one can say that if I feel like the election was rigged, there will be violence.  Enough is enough.  
 

In the end tho, I don’t expect that outcome.  I expect Biden to win with 300+ EV, and for Trump to create his own TV network.

Do you know how elections or even ballots work, dude? You think they have separate digital or paper ballots for President and then everyone else? If he's throwing out a shit ton of Democratic ballots that vote for Biden, he's throwing out a fuck ton of democratic ballots that are blue votes down the fucking line. It's the same fucking thing. He'll accomplish both doing the same thing. And the chances of turning the senate blue already pretty fucking slim, even with a crushing Biden victory. So, uh yeah. He's going to steal the whole fucking thing. 

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

As someone who is one degree separated from the Clinton's, I can tell you that Hillary had a direct and profound impact on Bill's political career.  The saying that "without her, he'd be the most popular law professor at Arky" is certainly true.  They have a complicated relationship and they both respect each other immensely.  If only she would have listened to his political advice, she'd be president today.

[Ghost of LL 15469]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This is a rule of humanity.  People WILL insist on the ability to determine their own future.  The choice is always "ballots or bullets."  If you deny the people ballots, they will inevitably resort to bullets.  The path the GOP is going down is a REALLY fucking dangerous one, because what they are doing is saying "we'll cheat you out of your vote, and we DARE YOU to do something about it."  That's fucking stupid.  Because eventually, someone will take you up on the dare.  At some point, people SHOULD take anti-democratic despots up on the dare.

I've been telling you we're headed for the most dangerous period in our history since the Civil War, and we are barreling forward towards it right now, with the GOP openly telling us that's exactly what's happening.

It's a real benefit to the country that Trump lacks any subtlety.  Someone with an ounce of cleverness would do what he's trying to do and get away with it.

That is why it is so critical for the Biden Administration to take away the tools that are available to a would-be despot (e.g., the DHS).  Because Trump may be the first.  But someone will come after him, because he's shown the way.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

3 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I've often wondered if Bill had not married Hillary, would he have been as successful as he was?  Seems she has the kind of personality to keep that horn dog somewhat focused enough to accomplish his their goals.  No one is going to 100% stop a horn dog from horn dogging, but she was tough enough to make sure it didn't sink their aspirations.

That, I believe, is a hugely valid question.  Not only the horn dog, but I think Bill is susceptible to a more general lack of focus, whether it be poon or something else.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

Hillary talk not fucking going away.

[Fozzz 152]

39 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This is a rule of humanity.  People WILL insist on the ability to determine their own future.  The choice is always "ballots or bullets."  If you deny the people ballots, they will inevitably resort to bullets.  The path the GOP is going down is a REALLY fucking dangerous one, because what they are doing is saying "we'll cheat you out of your vote, and we DARE YOU to do something about it."  That's fucking stupid.  Because eventually, someone will take you up on the dare.  At some point, people SHOULD take anti-democratic despots up on the dare.

I've been telling you we're headed for the most dangerous period in our history since the Civil War, and we are barreling forward towards it right now, with the GOP openly telling us that's exactly what's happening.

lmao no they won't.  Americans are the biggest cucks on the planet.  We take pride in taking it up the ass from our betters.  

[Brisketexan 104537]

9 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lmao no they won't.  Americans are the biggest cucks on the planet.  We take pride in taking it up the ass from our betters.  

And you're right.....until you're not.  That's the fucking problem.  The GOP will push, and push, and push....until it's too fucking late and the country is on fire.

[SydneyCarton 47836]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And you're right.....until you're not.  That's the fucking problem.  The GOP will push, and push, and push....until it's too fucking late and the country is on fire.

Lots of countries that are mildly on fire and run by autocrats that aren't in danger of losing power. I'm not sure I see America fighting back. Because if the status quo doesn't change that much...eh. 

[GopherRock 1765]

Who gives a shit about Hillary? She's not on the ballot. 

[Brisketexan 104537]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Lots of countries that are mildly on fire and run by autocrats that aren't in danger of losing power. I'm not sure I see America fighting back. Because if the status quo doesn't change that much...eh. 

I don't know if you've been looking around, but the "status quo" is getting right fucked, and getting right fucked-er.  When millions of people are evicted, have no money or food, and the streets descend into various levels of chaos, with jackboots attacking American citizens at will....the table is being set.

[SydneyCarton 47836]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't know if you've been looking around, but the "status quo" is getting right fucked, and getting right fucked-er.  When millions of people are evicted, have no money or food, and the streets descend into various levels of chaos, with jackboots attacking American citizens at will....the table is being set.

Yeah. Table is set. No doubt. I’m questioning if American citizens choose to sit down in a meaningful way. You’re talking an armed, strategic insurrection. Dudes running around sniping isn’t going to get it done. 

[Brisketexan 104537]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Yeah. Table is set. No doubt. I’m questioning if American citizens choose to sit down in a meaningful way. You’re talking an armed, strategic insurrection. Dudes running around sniping isn’t going to get it done. 

It will take large-scale social collapse, coupled with a nakedly stolen election.  I see that train a-comin'.

[Homercles 10205]

28 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And you're right.....until you're not.  That's the fucking problem.  The GOP will push, and push, and push....until it's too fucking late and the country is on fire.

Just ignore Fozzz...his takes are always Cleveland Steamers before he jets out again.  I was proud of everyone yesterday ignoring his ‘abolish the FBI’ in another thread.  

[pyrohornIII 4805]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:24 PM, Nivek said:

Wharton seems like it sucks.

Imagine the profs there who passed this moron along, up the graduation ladder.  They had to feel he was too stupid to do any harm to anyone of consequence.

 

11 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

No offense intended. And actually the opposite intended. The interparty sniping is not productive. Those things you are fighting for are also progressive goals. We see more eye to eye than anyone thinks. We settled and made peace with it. This is not the same Party as it was in 2016. The Democratic Party has been far more responsive to the changing progressive tilt this Party has taken. Progressive policies are good for us all. There are no losers with progressive policies. Even Trump voters get a better America with progressive policies that advance humanity. And . . .  it is demographics. because this is where all of humanity is moving as we enter this new age of innovation. A rising tide lifts all boats. 

The time is done for Democrats to fight with other Democrats.

It is a big tent. We even have a pet zoo of Country Club Republicans voting Democratic. That is awesome. Their input on matters of state and economics is welcomed counsel.
 

Biden is the obvious choice as a President who will come in and steady the ship over Trump. There is no alternative - to save the nation from economic degradation. Once stabilized in 2022 - he should have assembled the best policies for ensuring the United States remains respected and trusted, there will be an election in 2024. It will probably be Senator Harris as the centrist pick against a center/center left candidate in the primaries. I hope Vice President Harris has the respect of the entire nation if she decides to run. That will have meant the Biden Administration did a fine job in finding equilibrium in the nation. 

Senator Harris listened after she stepped out of the race. And she acted on what she heard. Great pick by Biden and his team. Senator Harris has the demeanor and intellect to listen to voters and work on their behalf. 

TLDR: Lower your weapons. We are on the same team. You do what you do best to beat Trump. Eyes on the political foe - not the Longhorn or progressive friend next to you. Be like Senator Harris - she assessed the problem, identify areas to improve, put promises into action, and remained a serious political figure in this Country. She should be an inspiration to us all. 

Vice President Harris will serve this nation well.  

I really like this post.

Edited August 13, 2020 by pyrohornIII
plural, not possessive

[BrickHorn 18185]

46 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Yeah. Table is set. No doubt. I’m questioning if American citizens choose to sit down in a meaningful way. You’re talking an armed, strategic insurrection. Dudes running around sniping isn’t going to get it done. 

Brisket thinks armed resistance is the way to save America. He’s wrong. A civil war would be like pushing Humpty Dumpty off the wall. The US will shatter into numerous weaker, poorer pieces, never to be put back together again. And a shitload of people will die in the process.

If it comes to civil war, the US is done. We should be doing everything we can to get Trump out of office peacefully and to start unfucking the country without bloodshed.

[tantric superman 4667]

So much noise. 

I'm voting on three issues.

1) Who will be better addressing environmental issues?

2) Who will be better addressing nuclear proliferation?

3) Who will more readily address the issues of technology and it's effect on the mass unemployment and displacement.

So much shit to address on the existential front to worry about all the other details.

[Voldemort86 2259]

If Trump steals or ruins the election in plain sight. There should be a violent uprising.....

[Chuckie Finster 22597]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

I'm old enough to remember when Republicans whined that Obama politicized the funeral of John Lewis.

[BrickHorn 18185]

5 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

If Trump steals or ruins the election in plain sight. There should be a violent uprising.....

Maybe. But you have to be realistic about your goals. At that point, you’re not saving the US. Your best hope would be to gain independence from regions overrun with fascist assholes who support Trump. 

[Huckleberry 32694]

26 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Brisket thinks armed resistance is the way to save America. He’s wrong. A civil war would be like pushing Humpty Dumpty off the wall. The US will shatter into numerous weaker, poorer pieces, never to be put back together again. And a shitload of people will die in the process.

If it comes to civil war, the US is done. We should be doing everything we can to get Trump out of office peacefully and to start unfucking the country without bloodshed.

One issue is that the true underlying root causes that can cause unrest will need to be addressed. There's no question that Trump's administration and supporters make the problem rapidly worse, but a Biden administration would have to actively make it better and I'm not convinced they will. 

If those trends aren't reversed then the basic feelings of insecurity and uneasiness that could cause bloodshed won't go away. If a Biden administration doesn't actively reverse them then those millions of workers and voters will blame the Democrats, the Republicans will be back even more emboldened, and the descent will accelerate further. 

And make no mistake whatsoever, Democratic administrations haven't been much if any better in this respect than pre-Trump Republicans. They've gladly continued the American corporatocracy in exchange for donations. Trump has given us a glimpse into that end game. The Republicans won't stop it, will the Democrats? 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Huckleberry

[BrickHorn 18185]

Oh I agree. Hence the second point in my post: we have to actually work to unfuck the country. Voting a decent human being like Biden in is just a first step. That merely enables us to do the things necessary to save the US from collapse. It is far from a guarantee that we’ll do them. Dem leaders like Warren at least give me hope.

But a second Trump term is a guarantee we won’t fix the structural problems. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by BrickHorn

[Brisketexan 104537]

35 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Brisket thinks armed resistance is the way to save America. He’s wrong. A civil war would be like pushing Humpty Dumpty off the wall. The US will shatter into numerous weaker, poorer pieces, never to be put back together again. And a shitload of people will die in the process.

If it comes to civil war, the US is done. We should be doing everything we can to get Trump out of office peacefully and to start unfucking the country without bloodshed.

You completely misread my post.  I don't think that's the right path.  I think it's a DISASTROUS path, for the reasons that you note.  My alarm is at the gleeful, breakneck-speed the GOP has us on that path.

19 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Maybe. But you have to be realistic about your goals. At that point, you’re not saving the US. Your best hope would be to gain independence from regions overrun with fascist assholes who support Trump. 

And this.  At this point, we have one shot to save the country (and I don't even know if that will work, but it's the only shot we've got).  That's not hyperbole.  The utter chaos, collapse, and disorder we would see under a second Trump term -- especially one that's blatantly stolen via election interference -- will be the end of us as a functional country.

[Bama Chick 28596]

That’s a lot of yard signs.

[Jack Straw 2953]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And you're right.....until you're not.  That's the fucking problem.  The GOP will push, and push, and push....until it's too fucking late and the country is on fire.

sadly, that point came and went a long time ago.  the message to Trump and Republicans at all levels of government and positions of authority should have been “resign or hang” - and followed through on - at multiple points over the last 3+ years.  if all the gross incompetence, racism, hatred, cruelty, betrayal, criminality, and outright treason that has occurred to date by Trump and the Republican sycophants wasn’t enough to get us collectively there, a(nother) stolen election won’t either.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

53 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Brisket thinks armed resistance is the way to save America. He’s wrong. A civil war would be like pushing Humpty Dumpty off the wall. The US will shatter into numerous weaker, poorer pieces, never to be put back together again. And a shitload of people will die in the process.

If it comes to civil war, the US is done. We should be doing everything we can to get Trump out of office peacefully and to start unfucking the country without bloodshed.

I still think a national strike is the most peaceful solution.  Fucking with these people’s money is the only language they understand short of violence. Problem is we can’t get everyone on the same page because too many people believe everything will work itself out. 

[4th&Five 41457]

If or when Biden wins it's going to be so easy to want to check out for a while and think things will start to improve.  I'm speaking for myself and I assume millions of others on that.  As the progressives in this country we need to stay engaged and actually push for the changes we've been bitching about forever.

[TXSG8R 3360]

1 minute ago, Jack Straw said:

sadly, that point came and went a long time ago.  the message to Trump and Republicans at all levels of government and positions of authority should have been “resign or hang” - and followed through on - at multiple points over the last 3+ years.  if all the gross incompetence, racism, hatred, cruelty, betrayal, criminality, and outright treason that has occurred to date by Trump and the Republican sycophants wasn’t enough to get us collectively there, a(nother) stolen election won’t either.  

I think the impeachment was the tipping point.  It was effectively the last chance to show that country was still more important than party, and we failed.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Honestly, and this sounds crazy, there needs to be some kind of grassroots progressive movement in the GOP once Trump is gone.  There are plenty of popular progressive reform ideas that appeal to conservatives.  Anti-corruption legislation, anti-trust, wealth tax, decriminalization of weed, cut military spending. No reason there can’t be fearless advocates for these ideas on the right. The current iteration of the GOP must be burned to the ground first tho. Fox News/conservative corporate media will still be the biggest road block sadly. 

[Nivek 16843]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Brisket thinks armed resistance is the way to save America. He’s wrong. A civil war would be like pushing Humpty Dumpty off the wall. The US will shatter into numerous weaker, poorer pieces, never to be put back together again. And a shitload of people will die in the process.

If it comes to civil war, the US is done. We should be doing everything we can to get Trump out of office peacefully and to start unfucking the country without bloodshed.

You do realize we went through a civil war and came back together.  

[Voldemort86 2259]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/13/college-football-coronavirus-maga-394505
 

college football now too...... really? Fucking really?
 

this asshole is politicizing everything and it’s driving me crazy. Everywhere you turn there is this fat orange fuck trying to rig this or influence that. I just wish he would go away ASAP. I can’t stand him. Damn. He’s such a loser.

[kevwun 15608]

Just now, Nivek said:

You do realize we went through a civil war and came back together.  

And the half measures taken during Reconstruction have got us on the road to another one.

[washparkhorn 9934]

Posted without comment. 

['stache 21744]

47 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Honestly, and this sounds crazy, there needs to be some kind of grassroots progressive movement in the GOP once Trump is gone.  There are plenty of popular progressive reform ideas that appeal to conservatives.  Anti-corruption legislation, anti-trust, wealth tax, decriminalization of weed, cut military spending. No reason there can’t be fearless advocates for these ideas on the right. The current iteration of the GOP must be burned to the ground first tho. Fox News/conservative corporate media will still be the biggest road block sadly. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

And this is fair. 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

33 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/13/college-football-coronavirus-maga-394505
 

college football now too...... really? Fucking really?
 

this asshole is politicizing everything and it’s driving me crazy. Everywhere you turn there is this fat orange fuck trying to rig this or influence that. I just wish he would go away ASAP. I can’t stand him. Damn. He’s such a loser.

Your reaction is very tame.  It's not just annoying, it's actively destroying the country and should be treated as such.  Burn the witch.

[BrickHorn 18185]

35 minutes ago, Nivek said:

You do realize we went through a civil war and came back together.  

You do realize this isn’t the mid-19th century.