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2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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WBT

WBT 20884

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:


Uh Amash is never going to be appealing to liberals.

Take a gander at some of his votes in congress.457e7db9de402385d9d0563666da4dc7.jpg
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Some examples of his policy positions -
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His only palatable positions to liberals, in addition to his pro-impeachment stance -
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He has nothing attractive to liberals. He appeals to the few conservatives who still like to pretend to have sense of decorum.

All those votes are pretty standard libertarian positions.  Very Ron Paul.

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:


Blah blah blah Manhattan blah blah blah

I am sorry that you are so angry at everyone for having to live in Alabama.  However, saying that Libertarians suck tells me all I need to know about you.  The Libertarian party as it exists today, largely does not uphold Libertarian ideals (you can tell by some of the candidates they put forward) and is full of kooks and crazies.  Libertarian ideals, especially as it pertains to the free movement of capital and labor, make a fuck ton of sense, and if you had one iota of knowledge of economics you would understand that.  

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9989

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14 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I am sorry that you are so angry at everyone for having to live in Alabama.  However, saying that Libertarians suck tells me all I need to know about you.  The Libertarian party as it exists today, largely does not uphold Libertarian ideals (you can tell by some of the candidates they put forward) and is full of kooks and crazies.  Libertarian ideals, especially as it pertains to the free movement of capital and labor, make a fuck ton of sense, and if you had one iota of knowledge of economics you would understand that.  

Calm down, Karen.

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gmr548

gmr548 16681

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Posted
I am sorry that you are so angry at everyone for having to live in Alabama.  However, saying that Libertarians suck tells me all I need to know about you.  The Libertarian party as it exists today, largely does not uphold Libertarian ideals (you can tell by some of the candidates they put forward) and is full of kooks and crazies.  Libertarian ideals, especially as it pertains to the free movement of capital and labor, make a fuck ton of sense, and if you had one iota of knowledge of economics you would understand that.  

So Libertarians aren't even good at being libertarians, but they don't suck?
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

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One of the nice things about Amash is that he uses his social media accounts to respond to his constituents and challengers and explains almost all of his votes.  I know that some people can't get past disagreement over the end results to try to understand the thought process, but its pretty much all out there.

 

Amash has obviously no real chance of winning, but I would be extremely pleased to have Amash in at least one debate with the two elderly and senile sexual assaulters. This is the best possible setup to see an articulate representative of libertarian perspectives lined up against two bumbling idiots representing the two party system.   

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kevwun

kevwun 16269

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Posted (edited)

I don't care about understanding the thought process that leads to voting against Flint, Michigan and Hurricane Harvey Relief bills.  The end result is all that matters in cases like that.

Edited by kevwun
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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20 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Amash isn't going to do jack shit. Very few people will waste any time on a 3rd party candidate in this particular election.  

He also doesn't want be the first word out of Americans' mouths on why Trump gets re-elected. 

I'm shocked he actually decided to run, as I didn't think he was a complete moron.

How does your third sentence here not lead you to doubt your first two?

- Amash would rather Donald Trump be president than Joe Biden.

I've said this before to the horror of the temporarily-not-Republican/Libertarians here, but look at his entire political history. Look at his voting record. He does not want a Democrat in office. He does not want a Democrat in power. A Joe Biden presidency goes against his core political ideology. A Trump presidency is merely an aesthetic horror to him. He wants RBG replaced with another Kavanaugh, not another RBG.

He's not going to campaign for Trump, but if you seriously think he prefers Biden you're lying to yourself (as are many of the Gary Johnson voters here) for some unknowable reason.

Why else is he running for president?

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
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29 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I don't care about understanding the thought process that leads to voting against Flint, Michigan and Hurricane Harvey Relief bills.  The end result is all that matters in cases like that.

How else is John Sharp going to funnel money to the good guys?  You think stadiums fund themselves?

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

How does your third sentence here not lead you to doubt your first two?

- Amash would rather Donald Trump be president than Joe Biden.

I've said this before to the horror of the temporarily-not-Republican/Libertarians here, but look at his entire political history. Look at his voting record. He does not want a Democrat in office. He does not want a Democrat in power. A Joe Biden presidency goes against his core political ideology. A Trump presidency is merely an aesthetic horror to him. He wants RBG replaced with another Kavanaugh, not another RBG.

He's not going to campaign for Trump, but if you seriously think he prefers Biden you're lying to yourself (as are many of the Gary Johnson voters here) for some unknowable reason.

Why else is he running for president?

I don't believe Amash prefers Trump to Biden. 

My guess is he's hoping his libertarian views can become more popular within the GOP if Trump loses in November. I don't think Trumpism is going away any time soon, but something has to eventually replace it. I think this is his play for the future, not November. But in the end whatever his presidential run becomes will just piss off Democrats and Republicans. I don't think he moves the needle very much at all. 

 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

He was one of the only republicans to oppose Kavanaugh's appointment. 

He would rather have Kavanaugh than RBG.

You saying he opposed Kavanaugh doesn't dispute that statement.

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

I don't believe Amash prefers Trump to Biden.

Why do you believe this? Is it based on something he said or is it some kind of hope?

Quote

My guess is he's hoping his libertarian views can become more popular within the GOP if Trump loses in November. I don't think Trumpism is going away any time soon, but something has to eventually replace it. I think this is his play for the future, not November. But in the end whatever his presidential run becomes will just piss off Democrats and Republicans. I don't think he moves the needle very much at all.

What is this based on?

I'm basing my position on history and polling data. What's yours based on?

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berlinerbaer

berlinerbaer 692

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39 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I don't care about understanding the thought process that leads to voting against Flint, Michigan and Hurricane Harvey Relief bills.  The end result is all that matters in cases like that.

This.

Amash, or any other libertarian in the White House right now would be a disaster in the midst of this pandemic.

Everyone loves a libertarian when the times are good, like when there is no real need for centralized leadership and action. A nation-wide state of emergency should doom any L candidate due to common sense, but we'll see what America wants.

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:


He was one of the only republicans to oppose Kavanaugh's appointment. 

I'm sure he talked a good game, but there was plenty of other brow furrowing to go around. Some of those people were Senators who had to actually vote on the matter.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Posted

I can vote for a candidate I disagree with on three issues but agree with on 97 issues.

I cannot vote for a candidate I agree with on three issues but disagree with on 97 issues.

So, great, I agree with Justin Amash that Trump sucks, criminal justice is shit, and marijuana is awesome.

Unfortunately, I disagree vehemently with everything else he stands for.

So no, waving a joint in my face and saying civil asset forfeiture is bad doesn’t make me forget the rest of his politics suck.

The libertarian fanbois need to face the facts of the real reason he’s throwing his hat in the ring at this late date - he’s come to terms with the fact that his stance on Trump and impeachment and his party switch is going to cost him his seat. So he’s maximizing his name recognition and trying to raise his profile so he can get on The Libertarian Crazy Train of Grift after January.

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, gmr548 said:


So Libertarians aren't even good at being libertarians, but they don't suck?

The Libertarian Party =/ true Libertarians.  Rather, it has been coopted by Tea Party types.  Per the League of Women Voters info for Harris County in 2018, half the "Libertarian" Party candidates were all in on building the fucking wall.  A real Libertarian believes in the free movement of labor.  That tells you all you need to know about the Libertarian party.  

However, Bama Chick said Libertarians suck, which is not the Libertarian Party.  Words and phrasing mean something.  And people that do not realize that are just as fucking stupid as the people they are looking down on.

Edited by PenelopeWitherspoon
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kevwun

kevwun 16269

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

The Libertarian Party =/ true Libertarians.  Rather, it has been coopted by Tea Party types.  Per the League of Women Voters info for Harris County in 2018, half the "Libertarian" Party candidates were all in on building the fucking wall.  A real Libertarian believes in the free movement of labor.  That tells you all you need to know about the Libertarian party.  

However, Bama Chick said Libertarians suck, which is not the Libertarian Party.  Words and phrasing mean something.  And people that do not realize that are just as fucking stupid as the people they are looking down on.

Because the libertarian ideal is impractical unless your version of utopia is being ruled over by whatever warlord was strong enough to seize power in your area.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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7 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

The Libertarian Party =/ true Libertarians.  Rather, it has been coopted by Tea Party types.  Per the League of Women Voters info for Harris County in 2018, half the "Libertarian" Party candidates were all in on building the fucking wall.  A real Libertarian believes in the free movement of labor.  That tells you all you need to know about the Libertarian party.  

However, Bama Chick said Libertarians suck, which is not the Libertarian Party.  Words and phrasing mean something.  And people that do not realize that are just as fucking stupid as the people they are looking down on.

Bama Chick is 100% correct, the politics of libertarians are laughable dogshit. The sideshow circus of the party at least has some whimsy and fun. You should be more embarrassed by Justin Amash than the yellow hat guy.

Actual, serious libertarians are nothing more than freaks who want slavery back but are either not smart enough to know that is what their politics are or are too dishonest to admit it. They're sitting in the middle of human misery and their takeaway is that the answer is even more abject isolation and misery.

I'll take this guy over some cargo shorts suburban boat dealership fascist who thinks the only job of the government should be to make sure his workers can't organize.

Fuck libertarians and libertarianism.

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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4 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Because the libertarian ideal is impractical unless your version of utopia is being ruled over by whatever warlord was strong enough to seize power in your area.

Not true at all.  In fact, that is the antithesis of the Libertarian ideal.  As I said, the fucking ideas have been completely taken over by idiots.  And unfortunately, many of you only know that warped "Libertarianism".  

 

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19279

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Bama Chick is 100% correct, the politics of libertarians are laughable dogshit. The sideshow circus of the party at least has some whimsy and fun. You should be more embarrassed by Justin Amash than the yellow hat guy.

Actual, serious libertarians are nothing more than freaks who want slavery back but are either not smart enough to know that is what their politics are or are too dishonest to admit it. They're sitting in the middle of human misery and their takeaway is that the answer is even more abject isolation and misery.

I'll take this guy over some cargo shorts suburban boat dealership fascist who thinks the only job of the government should be to make sure his workers can't organize.

Fuck libertarians and libertarianism.

EPJ0CDOXUAE9UBM.jpg

And this tells me you actually do not know what the fuck you are talking about, which is completely par for the course.  

I am now leaving the Cloak Room circle jerk.  You guys all deserve each other.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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Posted
57 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

-3 Biden

-1 Trump

But it doesn't matter! :D:D

It makes sense that Amash hurts Biden more than Trump in this early polling.  IMO he's just dipping his toe in the water before eventually dropping out. I don't think he'll be on the ballot in November if it's clear his inclusion helps Trump. 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It makes sense that Amash hurts Biden more than Trump in this early polling.  IMO he's just dipping his toe in the water before eventually dropping out. I don't think he'll be on the ballot in November if it's clear his inclusion helps Trump. 

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Libertarian Party?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted

Did you vote for Gary Johnson?

I am seriously not comprehending your dogged allegiance to this idea that Amash is some noble-hearted good guy who will work to defeat Trump when there is zero evidence of it and a lot of evidence against it. My initial thought is that you're hoping it's the case because you feel guilty about past political activity or maybe out of some kind of class allegiance with fellow white suburban guys, because that would make sense.

But... my brain is melting a little.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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The libertarian party is an ideological oxymoron because every self described libertarian thinks they are the true libertarian and all other libertarians have it wrong.  It’s like a prayer gathering for Atheists. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21598

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5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I am seriously not comprehending your dogged allegiance to this idea that Amash is some noble-hearted good guy who will work to defeat Trump when there is zero evidence of it and a lot of evidence against it.

I guess you just don't read my posts. I think Amash doesn't fully realize yet that his inclusion in the race will help Trump. In other words, I think he is dumb. But while vanity may have pushed him into the race, it will be the reason he eventually drops out IMO. Because he doesn't want to be a pub trivia night answer for the next 200 years to the question "Who got Donald  Trump re-elected in 2020?". 

 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14782

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Posted
14 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

The joke in our house is Amash is the Rush of politicians:  good luck finding a girl at that concert.

Underrated angle here.  If you just look at demographics, I'd say 99% of Amash's voters are white men, which is a group that leans heavily Republican.  As long as women and minorities continue the recent trends in both turnout and partisan voting, Amash is fairly irrelevant.

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gmr548

gmr548 16681

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Posted
Not true at all.  In fact, that is the antithesis of the Libertarian ideal.  As I said, the fucking ideas have been completely taken over by idiots.  And unfortunately, many of you only know that warped "Libertarianism".  
 

Serious question - if libertarians can't get control of the party that bares their name and should be more or less their safe space given the hegemony of the two major parties, how can they be expected to govern effectively?
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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8867

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5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I guess you just don't read my posts. I think Amash doesn't fully realize yet that his inclusion in the race will help Trump. In other words, I think he is dumb. But while vanity may have pushed him into the race, it will be the reason he eventually drops out IMO. Because he doesn't want to be a pub trivia night answer for the next 200 years to the question "Who got Donald  Trump re-elected in 2020?". 

 

As a practical matter, does he have time or resources to get on the ballot in 50 states? Collecting signatures during a pandemic may prove impossible. The cynic in me says he’s capitalizing on his name recognition, opening a SuperPAC, and when he stops running that money goes unaccounted for

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14782

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Amash's gift to the campaign will be forcing Trump into a debate if Amash meets the threshold.  We all know that Trump will refuse to debate (THE MEDIA IS RIGGED!!!!) but he'd look like a complete fucking idiot if Biden and Amash are debating each other and he's not there.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23699

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Posted
1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

I can vote for a candidate I disagree with on three issues but agree with on 97 issues.

I cannot vote for a candidate I agree with on three issues but disagree with on 97 issues.

So these probably don't help either?

 

 

 

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