2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Ghost of LL 15483]

14 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Do you have any idea the scope of the problem?  Hotdog water said 60k under Obama- is that true?  If

so- how many under Trump?  Does the number matter

to you.  Should it?  

Number of children separated from their parents by the United States Government under Obama: 0

Number of children separated from their parents by the United States Government under Trump: >>>>>0

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

In brisket’s defense on the polling numbers,

it is a little bit disheartening that after 4 years of trump acting like himself, there’s enough people that still are willing to vote any R over any D, let alone those that still actually like him, that it’s not way more lopsided. 
it should be like 60/30/10 in most states, even if it’s only this one cycle. 

[hobbes2702 12804]

39 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

There’s not 210k extra dead man for

fucks sake. There’s 210k dead. There were always going to be people dying from this thing. Under any administration. Look at our deaths per 100k and they match up pretty well with Western Europe. We are ... average at dealing with this?  Maybe a little below average. But there aren’t 210k extra deaths. That’s unmitigated horse shit that you really ought to be ashamed to type. Because you are smarter than that. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Let me count the number of times I've spanked my kids.

Zero.

I’ve got 3 and have spanked them 12 times collectively. Each of them got it for playing in the street. One of them for throwing knives. Another one for smashing his sister with a dowel rod and one two each of the little teams for cussing their mother. Basically shit that’s completely untenable for their own good to avoid serious long term consequences. I think there’s way too many people that go to the whip way too easily and it’s hard to go wrong with too much grace in the world, but sometimes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I hope anyway. I’m. Not saying I’ve got it right. Parenting isn’t for the faint of heart and at the end of the day I hope my kids know I did my best even if I fucked up

Edited October 12, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[G650 14100]

Lol

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But he's NOT "fixing to get repudiated by the American people."  His approval rating is about what it has been -- 41%.  A sizable chunk of Americans -- a dangerously large chunk -- not only will never "repudiate" him, they worship him.

Your BEST case is an electoral defeat that is tighter than it should be.  You wouldn't call it a winning repudiation that speaks well of the American people if we voted for Mussolini at a rate of 40% plus.  You'd read that as "holy fucking shit, what the fuck is wrong with us that 40%+ of us support Benito Fucking Mussolini?"

Jesus.  The lengths you will go to excuse Trump and his cult followers....well, there's no limit, is there?

Satan could be nominated for either political party and get 40%. That’s literally human nature and has been for the entirety of the nation and probably world if given a two party system. For a major party candidate to get under the Mondale zone would indeed be a historical repudiation. 

[jimmyjazz 45554]

Well, I've raised 2 from birth and 2 from relative youth (starting at 5 and 9), and my track record is pretty damn good.  The younger 3 all got consistent rave reviews from teachers and parents about their kind hearts and respectful attitudes.  The oldest?  Not as much, but I didn't have as much time with her, and I'll be honest, she was a bit of a problem from day one.  That can happen when an older kid sees her parents divorce and mom marries a new guy.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2659]

20 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Do you not whip your kids?  Is that not intentionally hurting them to try to get across a policy objective (don’t do this bc I said so). 
can being cruel never be calculated to be an attempt to be kind in the long run?  I do it with my kids bc I love them even if they think it’s cruel. 
the kind of thing I’d whip them for would be to keep them from facing the danger of

being separated from me around a bunch of Dangerous people that would

do them harm. 

I fucking can't with people who still choose to beat their kids in this day and age. Against all data that it's detrimental and frequently leads to depression and/or aggression.

Fucking sadistic and the cop-out way to parent during challenging behavior.

And goes along with the right-wing love for authoritarianism. 

Don't semantics me on beat/spank and don't anecdotal evidence me bro

[Captainant 27447]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’ve got 3 and have spammed them 12 times collectively. Each of them got it for playing in the street. One of them for throwing knives. Another one for smashing his sister with a dowel rod and one two each of the little teams for cussing their mother. Basically shit that’s completely untenable for their own good to avoid serious long term consequences. I think there’s way too many people that go to the whip way too easily and it’s hard to go wrong with too much grace in the world, but sometimes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I hope anyway. I’m. Not saying I’ve got it right. Parenting isn’t for the faint of heart and at the end of the day I hope my kids know I did my best even if I fucked up

Right, so imagine leaving your kids with your brother (idk if you have a brother, work with me here) for a week while you're on a business trip. 

While you're gone he beats the everliving fuck out of them, nothing broken, but certainly battered.

When you ask why he did what he did, his only response is "well, you've hit them too, and they wouldn't stop misbehaving"

 

Is your limited response and his outsized response really the same thing to you? Just because you used a parenting method in a limited way, is his unlimited (and arguably unhinged) usage of that same method also ok? You already did it, what's the details or severity of it matter?

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Number of children separated from their parents by the United States Government under Obama: 0

Number of children separated from their parents by the United States Government under Trump: >>>>>

[Goredho 17345]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

There’s not 210k extra dead man for

fucks sake. There’s 210k dead. There were always going to be people dying from this thing. Under any administration. Look at our deaths per 100k and they match up pretty well with Western Europe. We are ... average at dealing with this?  Maybe a little below average. But there aren’t 210k extra deaths. That’s unmitigated horse shit that you really ought to be ashamed to type. Because you are smarter than that. 

 

• First Coronavirus Case:
  • US: January 20, 2020
  • South Korea: January 20, 2020
• Coronavirus Deaths to Date:
  • US: 215,000
  • South Korea: 433
• Population
  • US: 328.2 million
  • South Korea: 51.64 million
• Death Per 100,000 residents:
  • US: 65.5
  • South Korea: 0.83
• Coronavirus Deaths Normalized for Population:
  • US: 215,000
  • South Korea: 2,752

We are not the best.  We are not average.  We are among the worst in the developed world.  And we are because we have no strategy for dealing with this pandemic from the standpoint of mitigating its affect on the health of Americans.  We only have a strategy aimed at mitigating the political cost of the pandemic to the President.  This was a choice made by our Sociopath-in-Chief to give himself the best chance to be re-elected.  A choice made knowing that it would cost of hundreds of thousands of more dead Americans than if he followed the recommendations of experts in the field.  He is on tape, telling whoever would listen, that he knew this in the first week of February.  Less than 3 weeks after that first reported case on January 20th.

That you, an obviously intelligent person, could start to overlook this horrific failing shows why people like Brisket, myself and others are still concerned that Trump will be able to engineer a win in spite of all undiluted data pointing to him being the overseer of a massive and unnecessary loss of life.

[hobbes2702 12804]

25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Do you not whip your kids?  Is that not intentionally hurting them to try to get across a policy objective (don’t do this bc I said so). 
can being cruel never be calculated to be an attempt to be kind in the long run?  I do it with my kids bc I love them even if they think it’s cruel. 
the kind of thing I’d whip them for would be to keep them from facing the danger of

being separated from me around a bunch of Dangerous people that would

do them harm. 

Child abuse is actually a pretty good comparison. Abusers often claim they commit abuse out of love.

[Aqua Buddha 14504]

The same people who say that Trump is using the same immigration policy that Obama used are the same people who said Obama was soft on immigration but Trump is much tougher.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, I've raised 2 from birth and 2 from relative youth (starting at 5 and 9), and my track record is pretty damn good.  The younger 3 all got consistent rave reviews from teachers and parents about their kind hearts and respectful attitudes.  The oldest?  Not as much, but I didn't have as much time with her, and I'll be honest, she was a bit of a problem from day one.  That can happen when an older kid sees her parents divorce and mom marries a new guy.

Cool. Being a good dad (and husband) is my number one goal in life. Congrats on navigating that minefield well. If you can remember every spanking You’ve ever given your kids it’s obvious that isn’t your first second or third answer to any problem. 

[lemonlime 5503]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Satan could be nominated for either political party and get 40%. That’s literally human nature and has been for the entirety of the nation and probably world if given a two party system. For a major party candidate to get under the Mondale zone would indeed be a historical repudiation. 

Both sides.  Except only one side has nominated Cheeto Mussolini.  Your "side" is full of sycophants, divorced from all reality, and who have forgotten about basic decency.  You don't get a pass for your "side's" absolute moral bankruptcy by assuming that people on the other "side" would do the same, when they haven't actually done so.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

• First Coronavirus Case:
  • US: January 20, 2020
  • South Korea: January 20, 2020
• Coronavirus Deaths to Date:
  • US: 215,000
  • South Korea: 433
• Population
  • US: 328.2 million
  • South Korea: 51.64 million
• Death Per 100,000 residents:
  • US: 65.5
  • South Korea: 0.83
• Coronavirus Deaths Normalized for Population:
  • US: 215,000
  • South Korea: 2,752

We are not the best.  We are not average.  We are among the worst in the developed world.  And we are because we have no strategy for dealing with this pandemic from the standpoint of mitigating its affect on the health of Americans.  We only have a strategy aimed at mitigating the political cost of the pandemic to the President.  This was a choice made by our Sociopath-in-Chief to give himself the best chance to be re-elected.  A choice made knowing that it would cost of hundreds of thousands of more dead Americans than if he followed the recommendations of experts in the field.  He is on tape, telling whoever would listen, that he knew this in the first week of February.  Less than 3 weeks after that first reported case on January 20th.

That you, an obviously intelligent person, could start to overlook this horrific failing shows why people like Brisket, myself and others are still concerned that Trump will be able to engineer a win in spite of all undiluted data pointing to him being the overseer of a massive and unnecessary loss of life.

I said Western Europe. Go do the comparison with them. I literally said we are average to maybe below average. Then you pointed out the absolute best- in a place that is completely and totally different from us culturally, and said no you are wrong we aren’t average- look- we are worse than Korea. That doesn’t follow man. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

The spanking analogy doesn’t hold and is, quite frankly, dumb.

The kids put in cages by the Trump administration aren’t being “punished” to correct their behavior - they’re being punished to influence the behavior of their parents.

If I think my neighbor doesn’t keep his yard clean enough, is it okay for me to whip his kids to make him cut his grass?

The Trump administration is yanking babies away from mothers in order to deter immigrants from crossing the border with their children. Any attempt to rationalize that or both-sides it is gross.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, lemonlime said:

Both sides.  Except only one side has nominated Cheeto Mussolini.  Your "side" is full of sycophants, divorced from all reality, and who have forgotten about basic decency.  You don't get a pass for your "side's" absolute moral bankruptcy by assuming that people on the other "side" would do the same, when they haven't actually done so.

Yeah- it’s not my side as I’ve voted against trump every time I’ve been presented with a ballot with him on it and will continue to do so. But I’m not partisan so I don’t have a “side” in that sense. But 80 or 82% of this country (pew’s got pretty cool numbers on that) is a rank partisan and never going to not. It’s for their team. If you hold true p to 40-43% of the vote that’s a massive repudiation. Basically it means e regime persuadable has been persuaded. Which is pretty cool to me and speaks of decency in this country. 

[Brisketexan 104586]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

Any attempt to rationalize that or both-sides it is gross.

No.  The word you're looking for is "evil."  If I, wanting to influence the behavior of a third party, purposefully inflict pain and cruelty on a child, that is EVIL.  Call it what it is.  

[Guest Lobo]

I'm picturing too many posts on this thread being said aloud in the voice of Delbert Grady...

"And when these brown children attempted to enter the Overlook Hotel...I corrected them.  And when my wife protested the manner in which I dealt with these children...I corrected her."  

Edited October 12, 2020 by Lobo

[Captainant 27447]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

No.  The word you're looking for is "evil."  If I, wanting to influence the behavior of a third party, purposefully inflict pain and cruelty on a child, that is EVIL.  Call it what it is.  

Punishing children as a method to punish parents? 

Puh-shawwww, collective punishment is TOTALLY something that modern democracies should be way into! /stevenmiller

[Brisketexan 104586]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah- it’s not my side as I’ve voted against trump every time I’ve been presented with a ballot with him on it and will continue to do so. But I’m not partisan so I don’t have a “side” in that sense. But 80 or 82% of this country (pew’s got pretty cool numbers on that) is a rank partisan and never going to not. It’s for their team. If you hold true p to 40-43% of the vote that’s a massive repudiation. Basically it means e regime persuadable has been persuaded. Which is pretty cool to me and speaks of decency in this country. 

I was generally "partisan."  I was actually pretty strongly so in my younger years.

Then I watched, jaw agape, at what that party was willing to fucking do, who it was willing to align with, and what it fucking CELEBRATED.  I will never vote for a GOP candidate again.  For any office.  If the Dem is utterly and completely unfit or evil, I will vote third party or leave the race blank.

No, fucking decent people do not continue to stand with a party that literally IS the party of Trumpism (I mean, that's the entire goddamned platform now).  They leave that party.

[Goredho 17345]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I said Western Europe. Go do the comparison with them. I literally said we are average to maybe below average. Then you pointed out the absolute best- in a place that is completely and totally different from us culturally, and said no you are wrong we aren’t average- look- we are worse than Korea. That doesn’t follow man. 

I compared the US against what is possible in a democratic republic with effective leadership during a global public health crisis.  If that makes you uncomfortable, that's on you, not me.

[jimmyjazz 45554]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah- it’s not my side as I’ve voted against trump every time I’ve been presented with a ballot with him on it and will continue to do so. But I’m not partisan so I don’t have a “side” in that sense. 

So either you've failed to vote for Trump once (2016 general election) or you're at least partisan enough to vote in one or more Republican primaries.  But you're not partisan.  Got it.

[hobbes2702 12804]

When did @Wulaw Horn become the captain of the both sides team?

[jimmyjazz 45554]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

When did @Wulaw Horn become the captain of the both sides team?

I think @Anastasis tapped out.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

10 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The same people who say that Trump is using the same immigration policy that Obama used are the same people who said Obama was soft on immigration but Trump is much tougher.

Yeah there is so much illogic in so much of what a hard core trumper says I avoid the conversation pretty much whenever possible. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So either you've failed to vote for Trump once (2016 general election) or you're at least partisan enough to vote in one or more Republican primaries.  But you're not partisan.  Got it.

Yeah man- I voted in as many GOP primaries as I did Dem primaries this century- 1 apiece. Basically for the same reason- to vote against someone in the nomination process that I really didn’t want to see be president. Hillary in 08 and Trump in 16. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

The spanking analogy doesn’t hold and is, quite frankly, dumb.

The kids put in cages by the Trump administration aren’t being “punished” to correct their behavior - they’re being punished to influence the behavior of their parents.

If I think my neighbor doesn’t keep his yard clean enough, is it okay for me to whip his kids to make him cut his grass?

The Trump administration is yanking babies away from mothers in order to deter immigrants from crossing the border with their children. Any attempt to rationalize that or both-sides it is gross.

But that wasn’t what originally started this. It was kids in cages. So that’s why your rationale doesn’t work. We were talking about kids in cages and when and how they got there. I learned something new and am appreciate to LL and a few others who have educated me and presented something I didn’t know before. I pushed back and asked questions because that’s how I learn where the limits are (it’s not trolling to whoever said it upthread- it’s how I learn and sense where the edge of

an argument is especially when it’s something new I’ve not encountered before). 
thanks

now feel free to go back to bed wetting about how this election, that’s going to end up at somewhere between 300 and 400 electoral votes, is in some way a cliff hanger. Because that’s where this is ending. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

20 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I compared the US against what is possible in a democratic republic with effective leadership during a global public health crisis.  If that makes you uncomfortable, that's on you, not me.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/05/899365887/charts-how-the-u-s-ranks-on-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-and-by-case-count
 

Yeah- and you acted like that was me

making a mistake when I said we were essentially average to a little below average- by saying- but Wulaw- We aren’t the best. Which I literally conceded when I said we were “average... to below average” but not spectacularly bad. Or playing Lone Ranger with this thing. 

[Continental Op 3934]

33 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah- it’s not my side as I’ve voted against trump every time I’ve been presented with a ballot with him on it and will continue to do so. But I’m not partisan so I don’t have a “side” in that sense. But 80 or 82% of this country (pew’s got pretty cool numbers on that) is a rank partisan and never going to not. It’s for their team. If you hold true p to 40-43% of the vote that’s a massive repudiation. Basically it means e regime persuadable has been persuaded. Which is pretty cool to me and speaks of decency in this country. 

Horseshit.  As a religious conservative you definitely have a "side."  You're just hoping that next time that side nominates someone who wants all the same shit Trump wants but is smart enough to operate within the system better and not say the quiet parts loud nonstop.  

[UncleSonny 6552]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

But that wasn’t what originally started this. It was kids in cages. So that’s why your rationale doesn’t work. We were talking about kids in cages and when and how they got there. I learned something new and am appreciate to LL and a few others who have educated me and presented something I didn’t know before. I pushed back and asked questions because that’s how I learn where the limits are (it’s not trolling to whoever said it upthread- it’s how I learn and sense where the edge of

an argument is especially when it’s something new I’ve not encountered before). 
thanks

now feel free to go back to bed wetting about how this election, that’s going to end up at somewhere between 300 and 400 electoral votes, is in some way a cliff hanger. Because that’s where this is ending. 

I don't know man...this weird digression started by you getting upset at Brisket for "denigrating America". Children in cages gets brought up and you somehow pushed back by both-siding Obama's immigration policy (confusing, because even if it were equivalent it still paints Americans as a terrible people) under the guise of just asking questions about a subject you didn't know about. It's cool you learned something new today but that information was wildly available for the past few years if you gave a shit about it.

As for finding the limits of an argument by using a bizarre child abuse analogy...no fucking clue. I've been lurking around for years and I generally don't find you to be a troll either but it's been a pretty strange hour of posting.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Just now, UncleSonny said:

I don't know man...this weird digression started by you getting upset at Brisket for "denigrating America". Children in cages gets brought up and you somehow pushed back by both-siding Obama's immigration policy (confusing, because even if it were equivalent it still paints Americans as a terrible people) under the guise of just asking questions about a subject you didn't know about. It's cool you learned something new today but that information was wildly available for the past few years if you gave a shit about it.

As for finding the limits of an argument by using a bizarre child abuse analogy...no fucking clue. I've been lurking around for years and I generally don't find you to be a troll either but it's been a pretty strange hour of posting.

Well I was watching the astros fuck around and lose game 2 to the Rays while lying in bed after doing yard work all day- so I’m not going for pretend I’m 100% focused like I’m preparing for my board exam- but really the main reason I’m engaging- and feel free whoever wants to tell me to fuck right off, is the idea that 40 or 45% of this country is evil because of who they choose to vote for. I find that totally and completely laughably silly but it feels like the vast majority of this board wants to put that on anyone who disagrees with how they vote- like the other person is evil. 
I also happen to believe we are in a Democratic ascendency so I find that to be really scary as the left will run the country for another generation I think- so I’m pushing back now. 
because- as I’ve been telling brisket for 4 years he’s pulling his hair out over nothing from. Trump is the dead cat bounce for the GOP. It’s over and done with. 2018 started that. 2020 will more or less finish it of

the Dems progress in a smith and orderly pace and don’t scare the shit out of the 20% of America that is persuadable and inclined to be on their side 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

8 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

Horseshit.  As a religious conservative you definitely have a "side."  You're just hoping that next time that side nominates someone who wants all the same shit Trump wants but is smart enough to operate within the system better and not say the quiet parts loud nonstop.  

Trump doesn’t want anything other than adulation and his own personal aggrandizement. He’s unmoored  from anything remotely approaching a principle. 

[Born to Run 6567]

Do you not whip your kids?  Is that not intentionally hurting them to try to get across a policy objective (don’t do this bc I said so). 
can being cruel never be calculated to be an attempt to be kind in the long run?  I do it with my kids bc I love them even if they think it’s cruel. 
the kind of thing I’d whip them for would be to keep them from facing the danger of
being separated from me around a bunch of Dangerous people that would
do them harm. 

No, no I don't whip my kids man.

Explains a Lot about the "good people you know".

[BradInATX 9208]

But he's NOT "fixing to get repudiated by the American people."  His approval rating is about what it has been -- 41%.  A sizable chunk of Americans -- a dangerously large chunk -- not only will never "repudiate" him, they worship him.

Your BEST case is an electoral defeat that is tighter than it should be.  You wouldn't call it a winning repudiation that speaks well of the American people if we voted for Mussolini at a rate of 40% plus.  You'd read that as "holy fucking shit, what the fuck is wrong with us that 40%+ of us support Benito Fucking Mussolini?"

Jesus.  The lengths you will go to excuse Trump and his cult followers....well, there's no limit, is there?

Yeah, I definitely don't share your "it's all fucked" view and I like Wulaw, but thats a silly notion. "The great repudiation" is about 5 percentage points (of voters) in four years, or roughly 1 in 30 of all voting-eligible Americans realizing Trump is an absolute piece of shit. Culturally and in terms of the fight for America's soul, it doesn't even breathe on the needle much less move it.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

Also, beating kids talk not going away

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

But he's NOT "fixing to get repudiated by the American people."  His approval rating is about what it has been -- 41%.  A sizable chunk of Americans -- a dangerously large chunk -- not only will never "repudiate" him, they worship him.
Your BEST case is an electoral defeat that is tighter than it should be.  You wouldn't call it a winning repudiation that speaks well of the American people if we voted for Mussolini at a rate of 40% plus.  You'd read that as "holy fucking shit, what the fuck is wrong with us that 40%+ of us support Benito Fucking Mussolini?"
Jesus.  The lengths you will go to excuse Trump and his cult followers....well, there's no limit, is there?

Read more  

Yeah, I definitely don't share your "it's all fucked" view and I like Wulaw, but thats a silly notion. "The great repudiation" is about 5 percentage points in four years, or roughly 1 in 30 Americans realizing Trump is an absolute piece of shit. Culturally and in terms of the fight for America's soul, it doesn't even breathe on the needle much less move it.

The lowest 2 person election (2 major candidates nothing other than minor candidates) share of vote I could find was something like 39% in 1936 or something when the electoral college went 99% to FDR. I expect Trump to poll less than 45% and maybe less than 43 or 42%, which puts him in a historical level of really shitty candidates that got repudiated pretty clearly by America. That’s what I mean and what I think is going to happen when predicting this election. 

[BrickHorn 18187]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’ve got 3 and have spanked them 12 times collectively. Each of them got it for playing in the street. One of them for throwing knives. Another one for smashing his sister with a dowel rod and one two each of the little teams for cussing their mother. Basically shit that’s completely untenable for their own good to avoid serious long term consequences.

Good point. Physical abuse is a great way to prevent long term consequences to children.

[Ghost of LL 15483]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

So is Trump under the impression that holding a rally in Florida with a coterie of people who have recently tested positive for COVID and nobody wearing a mask is going to improve his standing among Florida seniors?

I mean, ok.  It's a bold strategy, Cotton . . . .

Say what you will about Kellyanne Conway and Paul Manafort and the rest of that crew--they were competent.  They knew how to run a campaign.  I honestly don't think they have anybody running that campaign right now.  It's just Trump running around holding his self-masturbatory rallies to feed his ego, irrespective of whether they actually help get him votes.

[hobbes2702 12804]

22 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

I don't know man...this weird digression started by you getting upset at Brisket for "denigrating America". Children in cages gets brought up and you somehow pushed back by both-siding Obama's immigration policy (confusing, because even if it were equivalent it still paints Americans as a terrible people) under the guise of just asking questions about a subject you didn't know about. It's cool you learned something new today but that information was wildly available for the past few years if you gave a shit about it.

As for finding the limits of an argument by using a bizarre child abuse analogy...no fucking clue. I've been lurking around for years and I generally don't find you to be a troll either but it's been a pretty strange hour of posting.

That’s literally why I asked when he became the both sides guy. He’s always been a conservative and one who, imo, makes sometimes dubious arguments to support conservatism but this is weird and different than normal both sides. Definitely coming across as the “just asking questions” guy which is another form of trolling.

[G650 14100]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The lowest 2 person election (2 major candidates nothing other than minor candidates) share of vote I could find was something like 39% in 1936 or something when the electoral college went 99% to FDR. I expect Trump to poll less than 45% and maybe less than 43 or 42%, which puts him in a historical level of really shitty candidates that got repudiated pretty clearly by America. That’s what I mean and what I think is going to happen when predicting this election. 

Do you even George Washington bro.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

Do you even George Washington bro.

So I guess o should have added “contested” election but I thought that was understood. 
it’s actually a fair point though in the sense that a lot of what made this country great is norms by some great men and ladies, and not necessarily codified into law. He could have had a kingship and turned it down. Pretty damn remarkable. 

[gmr548 16500]

 

 

 

I said Western Europe. Go do the comparison with them. I literally said we are average to maybe below average. Then you pointed out the absolute best- in a place that is completely and totally different from us culturally, and said no you are wrong we aren’t average- look- we are worse than Korea. That doesn’t follow man. 

 

Come on man. This is easily verifiable. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html?hide-chrome=1

 

Western Europe is also probably counting cases and deaths better than we are but let's leave that out for argument's sake.

 

There is one western nation with a significantly worse death rate: Belgium at 89 per 100k. Next worse is Spain at 71. US is 65, so you can call Spain slightly worse if you want. But really only Belgium stands out. Stay away from waffles I guess.

 

That's it. That's the list of western nations with higher death rates. Two, with one just slightly so.

 

UK is at 64 - same. The only people on earth that can compete with Americans on stupidity and their PM also almost died just like POTUS. So we're looking really similar. Great company.

 

Italy, known the world over for the severity of its outbreak in its wealthiest region, with its old ass population, is at 60. Generally similar but if Spain qualifies as slightly worse they're slightly better. Sweden, with its controversial approach, is at 58. We've underperformed the western nation that came closest to just shrugging and saying fuck it.

 

Everyone else really starts to smoke us. France at 49. The Netherlands at 39. Ireland at 38. Canada at 26. Switzerland at 21. I'm not cherry picking, those are the next five western nations in terms of death rate. We can keep going but you get the point.

 

We are not average. Not close. Like most other metrics one would want to be good at, we are squarely at the back in the group of western nations, to the point that places like Canada and Germany cannot even reasonably be considered our peers.

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So is Trump under the impression that holding a rally in Florida with a coterie of people who have recently tested positive for COVID and nobody wearing a mask is going to improve his standing among Florida seniors?

I mean, ok.  It's a bold strategy, Cotton . . . .

Say what you will about Kellyanne Conway and Paul Manafort and the rest of that crew--they were competent.  They knew how to run a campaign.  I honestly don't think they have anybody running that campaign right now.  It's just Trump running around holding his self-masturbatory rallies to feed his ego, irrespective of whether they actually help get him votes.

This is some combination of sad, funny and true- I don’t know how much in what measure. It’s like 20 days until it’s over, more or less. 

[formermav43 4599]

25 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Also, beating kids talk not going away

No joke. As if this board couldn’t get any worse-hey, let’s have a spanking debate!

[gmr548 16500]

No joke. As if this board couldn’t get any worse-hey, let’s have a spanking debate!

It can always get worse.

*looks at football board*

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

5 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 

 

Come on man. This is easily verifiable. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html?hide-chrome=1

Western Europe is also probably counting cases and deaths better than we are but let's leave that out for argument's sake.

There is one western nation with a significantly worse death rate: Belgium at 89 per 100k. Next worse is Spain at 71. US is 65, so you can call Spain slightly worse if you want. But really only Belgium stands out. Stay away from waffles I guess.

That's it. That's the list of western nations with higher death rates. Two, with one just slightly so.

UK is at 64 - same. The only people on earth that can compete with Americans on stupidity and their PM also almost died just like POTUS. So we're looking really similar. Great company.

Italy, known the world over for the severity of its outbreak in its wealthiest region, with its old ass population, is at 60. Generally similar but if Spain qualifies as slightly worse they're slightly better. Sweden, with its controversial approach, is at 58. We've underperformed the western nation that came closest to just shrugging and saying fuck it.

Everyone else really starts to smoke us. France at 49. The Netherlands at 39. Ireland at 38. Canada at 26. Switzerland at 21. I'm not cherry picking, those are the next five western nations in terms of death rate. We can keep going but you get the point.

We are not average. Not close. Like most other metrics one would want to be good at, we are stately at the back in the group of western nations, to the point that places like Canada and Germany cannot even reasonably be considered our peers.

 

So, what you are saying is essentially that I’m right and it matches the chart I posted when I said we aren’t uniquely awful but rather average to below average with our peer group. Slotting in around UK, Sweden, Italy and Spain, well better than a couple countries and marginally to significantly worse than a bunch of others. So, just what I said. 
Anyway the idea that anyone in the admin has 210k extra deaths on their hands is silly, as nobody would/should have expected zero deaths and no amount of wrangling anyone was ever going to do from any administration was going to convince America to shut down. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[hobbes2702 12804]

32 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Well I was watching the astros fuck around and lose game 2 to the Rays while lying in bed after doing yard work all day- so I’m not going for pretend I’m 100% focused like I’m preparing for my board exam- but really the main reason I’m engaging- and feel free whoever wants to tell me to fuck right off, is the idea that 40 or 45% of this country is evil because of who they choose to vote for. I find that totally and completely laughably silly but it feels like the vast majority of this board wants to put that on anyone who disagrees with how they vote- like the other person is evil. 
I also happen to believe we are in a Democratic ascendency so I find that to be really scary as the left will run the country for another generation I think- so I’m pushing back now. 
because- as I’ve been telling brisket for 4 years he’s pulling his hair out over nothing from. Trump is the dead cat bounce for the GOP. It’s over and done with. 2018 started that. 2020 will more or less finish it of

the Dems progress in a smith and orderly pace and don’t scare the shit out of the 20% of America that is persuadable and inclined to be on their side 

At some point, especially when the evil is so brazenly thrown in your face over and over, if you continue supporting evil then you are in fact evil.

[staboner 4957]

watching someone's worldview slowly deteriorate is sad I guess. Sad. Thats better.

I ate two tacos just now and enjoyed both sides of them / both tacos / no child was punched 

party on