2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[SubliminalHorn 6995]

Do they think this burisma stuff resonates with anyone? While covid cases are increasing and we have ~215k Americans dead

Edited October 14, 2020 by SubliminalHorn

[Chuckie Finster 22978]

8 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Do they think this burisma stuff resonates with anyone? While covid cases are increasing and we have ~215k Americans dead

Yes, the Trump campaign does.  In related news, the Trump campaign is full of idiots.

[Goredho 17627]

“We we’re doing great until the plague came.  Had our manufactured scandals all ready to go.”

[GW Hayduke 1957]

Like clockwork, hunter and Burisma are at the top of the Fox News website. There are newly uncovered emails!!

[TwiceHorn 31987]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I sure wish we had straight-ticket voting.  Because, although I have never voted straight ticket in my life, I would take great pleasure in "pulling the donkey lever" this year.

I looked at the sample ballot.  There are two judicial races where I somewhat favor the R candidate.  One is a personal acquaintance and the other is a known quantity as a decent judge and seems more competent than his rival.  Both, however. were appointed by Abbott and so did more than just fail to make the switch.  I think I am comfortable punishing them for that.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Bateshorn 9989]

The Times should suspend Haberman for a week for retweeting that trash without verification or comment. 
 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Storm the Field 5360]

Nice comfy lead in a state that Clinton only won by 0.4%.

 

[cactusflinthead 27626]

 

[ztejas 44114]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

I say this dead honestly:  the only socially liberal, fiscally conservative moderate GOP official left nationally is the Senior senator from Alaska and she’s isn’t up for election until 2022.  
 

The problem with your split ticket activity, while sound in theory, is it doesn’t work in practice.  There is no room in the modern GOP for dissent.  A vote for somebody who seems non Trumpy and moderate is effectively same voting for a Trump person. Mike McCaul is a very pleasant person.  I’ve met with him several times.  I genuinely like him. FOr all intents and purposes tho, he’s the same as Louie Gohmert.  
 

I appreciate your thoughtful approach, and I pass along my thoughts as somebody who has worked for both Democrats and Republicans as a congressional staffer.  We are not in normal times.  Our democracy is frighteningly vulnerable to autocracy because it’s a lot more norm based than rule based.  If the GOP is not repudiated at the ballot box at all levels now, I’m deeply worried that even if Trump loses, a more effective version of him is going to re appear and it’s your local county official who is going to help that  person seize power at the local level. 

Thanks. Some good stuff to think about here, as well as others that chimed in. 

[Storm the Field 5360]

Just now, Bateshorn said:

The Times should suspend Haberman for a week for retweeting that trash without verification or comment. 

I think she realized she stepped in it and is now in damage control mode. Spent a good chunk of last 2 hours re-tweeting other journos pointing out how fishy and slapshod this latest attempt at ratfuckery by Rudy is. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

socially liberal, fiscally conservative

This has always been a bullshit facade and it took me a while to realize it. The consequences of conservative economic policy are the same as social conservative policy.  Economic mobility and egalitarian access to prosperity are crushed.  These are the bootstraps folks that still think they live in 1950s America but are pro-choice and support gay marriage.  Today, if you say you’re fiscally conservative but socially liberal, you are a conservative. Period.   

Edited October 14, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Guest Lobo]

I am still waiting to meet the person who starts off their political rant with, "Listen, as a social conservative, fiscal liberal...I feel that..."  

[conVINCEd 21477]

2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Voted yesterday in East Dallas. I showed up at 9:06am and it took me an hour twenty to get through the line. At first they only had one of 6 ID machines working, so the people who lined up at 6:30am had to wait two hours. By the time I got to the front of the line all six were working and the line was moving at a pretty good clip. Felt fucking awesome to vote D from Pres to dog catcher.

Also saw the first one of these in the hood yesterday while out walking the dogs:

I’m pretty sure that is my grandparents old house.

Edited October 14, 2020 by conVINCEd

[Bateshorn 9989]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I am still waiting to meet the person who starts off their political rant with, "Listen, as a social conservative, fiscal liberal...I feel that..."  

I would argue that’s the modern GOP:  spend like a sailor on fleet week (at least tax spend and subsidize corporations), lecture on morals like Increase Mather 

[G650 14421]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 Today, if you say you’re fiscally conservative but socially liberal, you are a conservative. Period.   

Even if I'm voting for all Democrats for as far as I can see?

[Bateshorn 9989]

Just cause it doesn’t exist at a National/political level doesn’t mean you can’t support it at a personal level and ask the same of your representatives. 
 

Im isolationist curious as a voter, so it’s something I like exploring even if I don’t find national politicians that embrace my vision of it (internationalist for humanitarian purposes/anti interventionist on military issues)

[BradInATX 9208]

16 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I am still waiting to meet the person who starts off their political rant with, "Listen, as a social conservative, fiscal liberal...I feel that..."  

Go to Minnesota

[ztejas 44114]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

But mostly it's about letting the world know that The United States of America WILL NOT HAVE A FUCKING CLOWN AS A FACE OF THE FRANCHISE.

Right. And I didn't vote for him in 2016. 

As for the rest, I'm just not as politically left as a lot of you and don't see these things as zero sum. There's a lot of shit on the left that I'm not fond of, either. I respect the views that y'all have here - it's just a little too much for me. Hence why I'm never on this forum. 

But, after reading some of the thoughts here I'm probably closer to straight dem than putting in a split ballot. 

[Beau Vine 55824]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, G650 said:

Even if I'm voting for all Democrats for as far as I can see?

Many democrats embrace modern conservative economic policy or at least tolerate it.  They’re fine with funding the war machine at absurd levels while catering to the corporate oligarchs by allowing them to loot the population without investing anything back into the infrastructure that built their wealth. The Republicans are just more overt about it b/c they can politically afford to be. 

[ndawg 1242]

23 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This has always been a bullshit facade and it took me a while to realize it. The consequences of conservative economic policy are the same as social conservative policy.  Economic mobility and egalitarian access to prosperity are crushed.  These are the bootstraps folks that still think they live in 1950s America but are pro-choice and support gay marriage.  Today, if you say you’re fiscally conservative but socially liberal, you are a conservative. Period.   

Excellent point. "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" is just conservative with less bullshit to memorize.

[Pancho 46054]

' Do not rust Florida for anything.  

 

[Thatguy 9289]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Right. And I didn't vote for him in 2016. 

As for the rest, I'm just not as politically left as a lot of you and don't see these things as zero sum. There's a lot of shit on the left that I'm not fond of, either. I respect the views that y'all have here - it's just a little too much for me. Hence why I'm never on this forum. 

But, after reading some of the thoughts here I'm probably closer to straight dem than putting in a split ballot. 

   That's the thing man. A lot of us aren't as politically left as you think. Quite a few of us arrived here pretty recently, and it has a lot to do with the guy currently soiling the WH. I have some Aggie neighbors that are voting straight Dem, and they have never voted Dem in their lives. Ever. That's how fed up they have gotten. They are both grads. Make good money, and have two gun safes in their home. When those kinds of people are turning it's getting ugly.

[StassneyHorn 6755]

If a candidate brands themselves as a Fiscal Conservative Social Liberal, I'd love to hear their pitch on ice cream after every meal to toddlers, new skateboards to young boys, dollhouses for young girls, blowjobs every Tuesday and Friday for married men, and spa dates on weekends for married women.

[Jive Turkey 12930]

 

[SydneyCarton 49325]

35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This has always been a bullshit facade and it took me a while to realize it. The consequences of conservative economic policy are the same as social conservative policy.  Economic mobility and egalitarian access to prosperity are crushed.  These are the bootstraps folks that still think they live in 1950s America but are pro-choice and support gay marriage.  Today, if you say you’re fiscally conservative but socially liberal, you are a conservative. Period.   

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but this is difficult for me to agree with wholesale. So in short, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, so feel free to get fucked. And before we start, if you tell me I'm not actually fiscally conservative, you can also feel free to get fucked in advance with bushel of sea urchins. 

I would consider myself to be fiscally conservative in principle, as well as having lots of libertarian tendencies. I'm socially liberal, for sure. I'm also for increased Taxes on corporations, and on the higher end of the tax brackets. I'm all for blowing up the tax code and starting over entirely, if we're talking about it. Do you know what fiscal conservatism means to me? GETTING CONTROL OF OUR MOTHERFUCKING DEBT.  Period. Then maybe plowing more money back into other areas, like education, social programs, etc. But you know what, I'm fiscally conservative. STOP WASTING MONEY AND FIX OUR FUCKING DEBT.

I understand why you want to try and boil shit down to simplistic, basic terms. But all you're doing it increasing partisanship. I'd argue that if you want people to step outside existing boundaries, stop fucking forcing them into boxes so you can color within whatever lines you deem fitting. We're better off as an electorate the MORE diverse we are, and the LESS ease with which people get labeled and grouped. The exercise you went through in your post is the flip side of the same partisan bullshit and simplistic that the GOP has been seizing upon for years. Make it harder to identify with one group of people, and those people are more likely to make decisions based upon merit or thoughtful consideration as opposed to "their team." And personally, telling me that despite considering myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal that I am, in fact, just a regular old conservative despite the fact I just actively went out and happily, orgasmically voted against my own immediate financial interests for a straight blue ticket and a better America...yeah, go fuck yourself. 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[ztejas 44114]

34 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This has always been a bullshit facade and it took me a while to realize it. The consequences of conservative economic policy are the same as social conservative policy.  Economic mobility and egalitarian access to prosperity are crushed.  These are the bootstraps folks that still think they live in 1950s America but are pro-choice and support gay marriage.  Today, if you say you’re fiscally conservative but socially liberal, you are a conservative. Period.   

Honestly it's probably less "fiscal" and more about individual freedom and what the government can and can't tell you to do. I still think individual success translates to societal welfare. I still think the biggest thing you can do to enact change is change your own life and get ahead of the chains so to speak. 

But then again, I'm not offended if someone calls me a "conservative". That's different than being labeled a republican or Trumper.

(Or just what @SydneyCarton said. That works too)

Edited October 14, 2020 by ztejas

[Beau Vine 55824]

The emails recovered from the a hard drive aren't actually emails.  They're images of emails.  Because that's what normal people always do -- take screencaps of all their incriminating emails.

 

 

[Brisketexan 106618]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

The emails recovered from the a hard drive aren't actually emails.  They're images of emails.  Because that's what normal people always do -- take screencaps of all their incriminating emails.

 

 

Man, that's TOTALLY what I do.  And then I put them in a folder marked "SECRET IMPORTANT STUFF - DO NOT LOOK AT THIS!"

[cactusflinthead 27626]

The man the Founders dreaded entered the high office they created—and proceeded to abuse that office in just the ways they feared. Now that man is seeking a second term, which would be even more abusive and dangerous. Trump’s election strategy is to weaponize the Electoral College to re-secure the presidency of the United States over the opposition of the majority of the people who live and vote there. If he can activate the fears of enough white people in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, he could succeed—defeating the much larger number of Americans who want him gone. Every plausible scenario of Electoral College success implies a popular-vote defeat even more lopsided than the 2.9 million votes he lost by in 2016.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/last-exit-trump-autocracy/616466/

[Beantown Express 2.0 6586]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Man, that's TOTALLY what I do.  And then I put them in a folder marked "SECRET IMPORTANT STUFF - DO NOT LOOK AT THIS!"

Do you also add, "If lost please return to Rudy Giuliani"?

[ztejas 44114]

13 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

That's the thing man. A lot of us aren't as politically left as you think.

I'm probably anchored in a biased way based on the posters that can't keep it in the CR. I do beleive you when you say that, I just don't read what gets posted over here enough to know it. 

[cactusflinthead 27626]

 

[G650 14421]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

They’re fine with funding the war machine at absurd levels while catering to the corporate oligarchs by allowing them to loot the population without investing anything back into the infrastructure that built their wealth.

Well, I don't , but I'm still generally fiscally conservative. I like to not have run away spending, military or otherwise. And highly prefer money going to infrastructure. And support single payer health care and guaranteed basic income.

 

And I'm socially super liberal. Without hyperbole, I'd let people tie up farm animals in the town square and hot chicks have donkey shows for the populace to see.

[hornmpa96 2652]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but this is difficult for me to agree with wholesale. So in short, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, so feel free to get fucked. And before we start, if you tell me I'm not actually fiscally conservative, you can also feel free to get fucked in advance with bushel of sea urchins. 

I would consider myself to be fiscally conservative in principle, as well as having lots of libertarian tendencies. I'm socially liberal, for sure. I'm also for increased Taxes on corporations, and on the higher end of the tax brackets. I'm all for blowing up the tax code and starting over entirely, if we're talking about it. Do you know what fiscal conservatism means to me? GETTING CONTROL OF OUR MOTHERFUCKING DEBT.  Period. Then maybe plowing more money back into other areas, like education, social programs, etc. But you know what, I'm fiscally conservative. STOP WASTING MONEY AND FIX OUR FUCKING DEBT.

I understand why you want to try and boil shit down to simplistic, basic terms. But all you're doing it increasing partisanship. I'd argue that if you want people to step outside existing boundaries, stop fucking forcing them into boxes so you can color within whatever lines you deem fitting. We're better off as an electorate the MORE diverse we are, and the LESS ease with which people get labeled and grouped. The exercise you went through in your post is the flip side of the same partisan bullshit and simplistic that the GOP has been seizing upon for years. Make it harder to identify with one group of people, and those people are more likely to make decisions based upon merit or thoughtful consideration as opposed to "their team." And personally, telling me that despite considering fiscally conservative and socially liberal that I am, in fact, just a regular old conservative despite the fact I just actively went out and happily, orgasmically voted against my own immediate financial interests for a straight blue ticket and a better America...yeah, go fuck yourself. 

 

I agree with most of this. From my perspective, more efficient government is being fiscally conservative. I would like to see decreased federal spending across the board including the military. Additionally, I agree with having higher taxes for corporations and wealthy individuals as we have allowed the tax system to essentially become welfare for the wealthy. Basically, our government utilizes its resources extremely poorly and I hope for it to do better.

I'm going out to vote at lunch today and will be voting straight ticket blue for the first time in my life. I've come to the conclusion that the Democratic Party is more fiscally conservative than the party of Trump as they actually want to try and pay for a few things.

[Thatguy 9289]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

Well, I don't , but I'm still generally fiscally conservative. I like to not have run away spending, military or otherwise. And highly prefer money going to infrastructure. And support single payer health care and guaranteed basic income.

 

And I'm socially super liberal. Without hyperbole, I'd let people tie up farm animals in the town square and hot chicks have donkey shows for the populace to see.

That's pretty socially liberal bordering on illegal.....lol

[ztejas 44114]

1 minute ago, hornmpa96 said:

efficient government

Isn't that one of the cliche examples of an oxymoron? 

Or is it "efficient bureaucracy" (tit for tat, I know)

[Neonmoon 38130]

Who was the last fiscally conservative President? Seriously?

[Bateshorn 9989]

I mean, America is a fundamentally right of center nation.  It’s just that the traditional right of center party has become a hard right party. 

[hornmpa96 2652]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Isn't that one of the cliche examples of an oxymoron? 

Or is it "efficient bureaucracy" (tit for tat, I know)

Fair point but can't a man dream

[ztejas 44114]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Who was the last fiscally conservative President? Seriously?

Clinton

[ndawg 1242]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Who was the last fiscally conservative President? Seriously?

I think the recent tradition of Republicans blowing up the debt means that what we used to call "fiscal conservatism" should be renamed to plain old "fiscal responsibility." Because these days, the conservative party seems a lot more interested in protecting the wealth of its oligarchy than spending responsibly.

"Fiscally conservative" 20 years ago might have meant "fiscally responsible," and I can get behind that. But it doesn't mean that anymore. It now means, "the rich get richer, poor get poorer, fuck the national debt, because the rich will have enough to protect themselves when the chickens come home to roost."

[Bateshorn 9989]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Clinton

It reminds me a great Molly Ivin’s quote:

“no one but a fool or a Republican ever took him for a liberal.”

[formermav43 4607]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Who was the last fiscally conservative President? Seriously?

Calvin Coolidge maybe?

[Brisketexan 106618]

16 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm probably anchored in a biased way based on the posters that can't keep it in the CR. I do beleive you when you say that, I just don't read what gets posted over here enough to know it. 

It's weird....a lot of things that I have held my whole life, including for the bulk of it when I was firmly within the "center right" (and I still am, if you take the American batshit take on the political spectrum out of the mix -- what is "center right" here is now characterized as socialist libtard) are now taken as completely leftist.

I have always had a problem with authoritarianism.  Don't trust law enforcement, no "papers please" laws, zero tolerance for racism and racial discrimination, stuff like that.  Those are CONSERVATIVE views (back when conservatism included a real liberty-minded bent).  But those have suddenly become super leftist communist libtard positions.  WTF?

There are some things that were long-held conservative positions that I once held, but then realized, after watching them tried repeatedly, that they don't work.  Like "trickle down" economics, often embodied in top-end tax cuts.  It doesn't work.  Makes some sense on paper, but doesn't work in reality.

Then there are some positions that have been CHARACTERIZED as super-liberal that I've come around on, and realize that they make sense across the board -- fiscally, socially, etc.  Like universal healthcare.  Fucking EVERY OTHER western democracy has it.  ALL OF THEM.  It's a good idea.  It pays off to have a healthy population.  It's an investment in our greatest resource -- our citizens.  It makes sense from even a "fiscal conservative" viewpoint -- ditch the rhetoric and labels, and you realize that universal healthcare is actually compatible with a fiscal conservative viewpoint.  Our GDP will IMPROVE with universal healthcare.  

Maybe the change is this -- capitalism is fine.  It really is.  But when you realize that the single most important capital asset in a country is its PEOPLE, and investment and incentives should be geared that way, then you realize that the bullshit peddled by the Trumpist incarnation of the GOP is the functional equivalent of scarfing down our seed stock to get fat today, without setting enough aside/nurturing seedlings to ensure future good crops.  Short term profits at the expense of long-term stability and growth is a shitty investment strategy.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Brisketexan

[jimmyjazz 46972]

Is there anything Hunter Biden has been accused of doing that hasn't knowingly been topped by a Trump kid except 10X worse?

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

54 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I am still waiting to meet the person who starts off their political rant with, "Listen, as a social conservative, fiscal liberal...I feel that..."  

I’m not going to say I’m a fiscal liberal, but I’m certainly open to any spending that helps others have a. Opportunity and is squandering my tax dollars. Hell, I voluntarily give away an inch of money and my life’s ambition is to set up a foundation to help marginalized people have careers and financial stability through investments in education and mentor ship. 
All of which to say is that this fits me way more than anyone I know, and you aren’t wrong- it’s a really small group of people that think this way. 

[The Dog 44771]

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I mean, America is a fundamentally right of center nation.  It’s just that the traditional right of center party has become a hard right party. 

I think America has shifted to the left and the Republicans are still stuck in the '80s-90s mentality more than anything else. It's masking how far the Democratic party base has moved. 

We're going to see some realignment after the election. Neither the current Biden coalition or Trumpism are sustainable, so something has to break.

[SydneyCarton 49325]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

I think America has shifted to the left and the Republicans are still stuck in the '80s-90s mentality more than anything else. It's masking how far the Democratic party base has moved. 

We're going to see some realignment after the election. Neither the current Biden coalition or Trumpism are sustainable, so something has to break.

I disagree with this. I don't think the democratic base has moved nearly as far as the republican base in the opposite direction. I do agree that this coalition can't last, because there's a lot of people who just aren't where the far progressive democrats want to go that are stuck in the middle with no viable option.