2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[SydneyCarton 49325]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Look- let me play the victim here for a minute on this whole Trump thing - because that's what middle age white people like to remind everyone- how victimized we are. 

Trump has been just terrible for me as a conservative who tries really hard to love other people and genuinely wants to see the world made a kinder and friendlier place- while also not going so fast down a direction that we risk losing some of the ties that bind us and make us a pretty great country and keep us glued together.  

That dipshit has coopted some ideas I like. Hell- I think his policy positions- if you look at them- are just "whatever the majority of Americans think about a particular issue". And then he's dumbed them down, stripped them of any nuance, slathered on a layer of dumbassery in some cases and vindictiveness in others, and made it unpalatable to anyone with any sense.  

He beat a field full of 19 people that I thought had some talent- talked down and demeaned most of what was accomplished in a bi-partisian way in the last generation (Nafta- shit like that) and stirred the world up in such a way that people are talking about politics all the time and just won't shut up about it- and it's obnoxious for normal people to talk about politics all the time and not shut up about it.  I'm tired of my wife watching CNN and Fox News all the time and asking me questions about the world. I want to go back to drinking, smoking, fucking, raising our kids and talking about how we can make a positive difference in our part of the world- and not how batshit crazy everything has gotten.  

So yeah- fucking launch him into the sun. He's a cancer. And the faustian bargain that was made by the people in my church for some supreme court justices sucks and they are going to be left holding the bag for a generation, somewhat deservedly so (it's not SOCON's that got him nominated- but they sure as shit fell in line in the general and got him elected). 

Rant over. 

Yeah, gotta stop you there buddy. That's bullshit. A majority of Americans supported the Paris Accords, staying in the WHO, were against tariffs for China, are in favor of Roe v. Wade, are in favor of the ACA, and are in favor of not rushing in a Supreme Court justice, JUST to name a few. They also at one point were in favor of him releasing his Tax Returns. Dont you even fucking DARE say that a majority of his policies are the policies of the majority. You know how I know that? He lost the popular vote, and then a blue wave blew through the legislature in 2018, and he is fighting to steal this election. 

The vast majority of Americans do NOT support his policies. And that is BEFORE his dumbassery slathers shit down. 

[gyroprotagonist 2597]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Dude: I actually want to put the man into a Saturn V and launch him into the sun.

 

Why waste all that money?  He would die if you put him on that mission to mars ride at Disney World from the mild Gs pulled.

Also, when are we going see republican challengers  brand incumbents as 'Trump ass eaters'?  I noticed a huge shift from all the local republican ads in Dallas.  couple of months ago, most were like "Trumps endorses me and I love him, so you should love me".  Now the only time Trump is mentioned is by the Dem ads shaming their opponent for eating Trumps ass.

if form holds and Trump is landslided out the white house, you will see the repubs do more than socially distance from cheeto.  It will be a repeat of the 'they knew' video where all the major players on the repub side were bashing the fuck out of Trump before he won.  Pointing out all of his obvious flaws and destructive tendencies. 

I would think the best thing to happen would be for Trump to run again and then when he did not get the repub nomination, he goes indy.  It would be fascinating to see the sect he peels off of the main party.  Every single one of those people should be put on a watch list.

[SydneyCarton 49325]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Here's where I have a hard time with what you are saying:  We have a 100+ year history of lots of different tax rates and things happening to the tax code. And at the end of the day there's like a magic ceiling of what- something like 20-22% of GDP is all that can be collected as tax revenue. And I think that's pretty similar in other places around the world.  The Church asked for 10% of everything- and charity along the same lines (I'm not using this as arguing that 20% is true- just that you see it in a lot of different places and ways). Over and over and over the 80/20 rule plays out in humanity and in nature.  I just don't know that anything you can do to the code will lead to tax receipts much greater than 20% of GDP (hell- it might even be like 18 or 19 percent- I'm doing this from memory).  

If you get much higher than that people will just start cheating or they will just stop creating.  So- any reforms should be designed to minimize waste- promote fairness- help economy grow- but you aren't going to start dropping a shit load more cash into the coffers of the US government. I'd love to see what anecdotal evidence you have that we can increase tax revenue b/c I think there's only so much juice that you can squeeze and we are getting most of it- even if it's not in the best and most efficient and fair way.  

Anecdotal evidence? How about our president's tax returns. Perhaps its not entirely altering the tax code...maybe it's about making motherfuckers actually pay what they owe. And eliminating ways for them to weasel out of it. 

[Biff Tannen 46061]

16 minutes ago, mchookem said:

this reminds me of a conversation with my husband this summer as we were traveling...we did several road trips (i hate flying anyway but definitely not w/ covid).

i am white, my husband black. while traveling we were talking about other areas we'd like to see, and he is/was adamant about certain places he doesn't want to go, such as the smoky mountains, hot springs, the PNW...specifically bc of racism/super red areas, etc. he's always 'looking out'.

my argument was "fuck that, why do just the assholes get to enjoy all these beautiful places?? this is my country, too!"

now, i realize as a white middle aged woman i've got a certain privilege, that i can go anywhere i want...but the point stands and i'm willing to fight for it. 

i feel the same about the flag...fuck them, it's MY flag and MY country too.

TIL mchookem is a female. 

And definitely don't let the fucking racists in certain areas make it so you and your husband don't get to enjoy YOUR property.  YOU own those parks, along with the rest of us.  It is your birthright.  Fuck those people.  Go enjoy those places.  They are sacred.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Yeah, gotta stop you there buddy. That's bullshit. A majority of Americans supported the Paris Accords, staying in the WHO, were against tariffs for China, are in favor of Roe v. Wade, are in favor of the ACA, and are in favor of not rushing in a Supreme Court justice, JUST to name a few. They also at one point were in favor of him releasing his Tax Returns. Dont you even fucking DARE say that a majority of his policies are the policies of the majority. You know how I know that? He lost the popular vote, and then a blue wave blew through the legislature in 2018, and he is fighting to steal this election. 

The vast majority of Americans do NOT support his policies. And that is BEFORE his dumbassery slathers shit down. 

That's not what I'm really trying to say- and I'm talking about his 2016 candidacy as much as anything- he was just going around picking up free votes here there and all over the place with shit like- lets demonize Nafta.  Lets be against global trade. Lets come out against foreign aid.  Lets do this... He picked just picked lots of things that were winners that were against some of the good shit that the GOP stood for I guess is what I was trying to say.

Go look at a run down of the issues he ran on in 2016 and overlay them with a pew report poll as a for example- he's on the bigger side of way more issues than he is the smaller side (running as a candidate in 2016). Governing?  Nah- he's doing whatever benefits him. 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Anecdotal evidence? How about our president's tax returns. Perhaps its not entirely altering the tax code...maybe it's about making motherfuckers actually pay what they owe. And eliminating ways for them to weasel out of it. 

I would argue Trump did actually pay what he owes. He's a spectacularly bad business man that's run all sorts of businesses into the ground. When you run a business into the ground you have a loss. When you have a loss you don't owe taxes.
I mean- the fucker was like in the top 10 highest losing tax payers for the period of a decade. Think about how bad at business that makes him. Also I'm pretty sure he's not really actually a billionaire. It's not a collection problem it's a he didn't make it- build it- or create a profit on it. Generally speaking. 

[UpperWestside 6263]

28 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I mean I know it would be a rough 8 years for your preferred party, but it would be better for it in the long run for it to be completely destroyed and then salt poured out on the ground to make sure it never comes back.

Fify.

[UpperWestside 6263]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is one of many reasons the potential Biden administration should avoid “turning the page” on Trump for the sake of “unity”, should he win.

Trump needs to be prosecuted for his crimes in office.  A failure to do so will only enable Trumpism to fester and re-emerge worse.  

I unfortunately expect the Biden administration to do exactly what they should not do and sweep Trump under the rug for political expediency reasons.  It is the wrong move and one of my major concerns with Biden. 

The people around Biden are going to have to tell him in no uncertain terms that we are not going to move forward as a country unless we prosecute this clown and his sycophants for all the damage they did/American taxpayer dollars they stole while he was in office. Simply saying it is time for the country to heal is not going to cut it and Elizabeth Warren needs to be in his ear repeatedly reminding him of this. You cannot let this traitor off the hook just because he is no longer president. This is simply not an option that should be given any serious thought after we he has done.

[SydneyCarton 49325]

5 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I would argue Trump did actually pay what he owes. He's a spectacularly bad business man that's run all sorts of businesses into the ground. When you run a business into the ground you have a loss. When you have a loss you don't owe taxes.
I mean- the fucker was like in the top 10 highest losing tax payers for the period of a decade. Think about how bad at business that makes him. Also I'm pretty sure he's not really actually a billionaire. It's not a collection problem it's a he didn't make it- build it- or create a profit on it. Generally speaking. 

Yeeah, that's great until you consider the fraud like making his 25 million dollar estate or wahtever in NY worth 250 million dollars on paper and then get a check BACK from the government for 100 million. 

There's a fuck, fuck, fuck ton of rich guys that do that as brazenly. But the IRS doesnt go after the rich. I forget, someone here will know, there was litereally an article recently that cited Billions of dollars in Tax revenue available from rich folks who never even bothered to file that the IRS won't even go after. So yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a way to get some more money. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

How the Republicans rebound after Trump is going to have a lot to do with how the Democrats in office behave.  Like Lucy with the football, the Republicans are going to get away with whatever they can.  They will lie and say they never liked Trump or that Trump was holding the party hostage and they just want to get back to the way things used to be.  It will be the duty of the democrats to not tolerate that shit and call them out.  The GOP has shown the world exactly who they are and democrats will need to make sure America does not forget. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6586]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How the Republicans rebound after Trump is going to have a lot to do with how the Democrats in office behave.  Like Lucy with the football, the Republicans are going to get away with whatever they can.  They will lie and say they never liked Trump or that Trump was holding the party hostage and they just want to get back to the way things used to be.  It will be the duty of the democrats to not tolerate that shit and call them out.  The GOP has shown the world exactly who they are and democrats will need to make sure America does not forget. 

I don't think they will do anything differently than they have done before when out of office.  They will obstruct anything that they can.  They will have Fox News and all the right wing media rip anything and everything the Democrats try to do with false talking points.  The Dems want to fix immigration/DACA (Right wing media will say they are letting in rapists from Mexico to come rape and kill us), address climate change ( Right wing media will say they are destroying jobs, the economy and everything that is good in this country) and the list goes on and on.  They are very good at putting a false narrative out there and they have hundreds of millions of people in this country that are too stupid to think for themselves and will believe it and vote for Trump Jr or Nikki Haley in 2024.

[Tuco 5093]

18 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Here's where I have a hard time with what you are saying:  We have a 100+ year history of lots of different tax rates and things happening to the tax code. And at the end of the day there's like a magic ceiling of what- something like 20-22% of GDP is all that can be collected as tax revenue. And I think that's pretty similar in other places around the world.  The Church asked for 10% of everything- and charity along the same lines (I'm not using this as arguing that 20% is true- just that you see it in a lot of different places and ways). Over and over and over the 80/20 rule plays out in humanity and in nature.  I just don't know that anything you can do to the code will lead to tax receipts much greater than 20% of GDP (hell- it might even be like 18 or 19 percent- I'm doing this from memory).  

If you get much higher than that people will just start cheating or they will just stop creating.  So- any reforms should be designed to minimize waste- promote fairness- help economy grow- but you aren't going to start dropping a shit load more cash into the coffers of the US government. I'd love to see what anecdotal evidence you have that we can increase tax revenue b/c I think there's only so much juice that you can squeeze and we are getting most of it- even if it's not in the best and most efficient and fair way.  

And over the last 100 years, we have shift the tax burden more towards the "payroll tax", which is definitely regressive, and towards the income tax, which the Republicans are trying to make more regressive. And, in the last 4 years, that wasn't enough, so we passed a massive corporate tax rate cut.  And of course, they are trying to remove the estate tax.  

 

 

And the magic ceiling is bullshit.  There are plenty of prosperous countries, with very high standard of livings, that have ratios in the 40s.  The UK is at 34%; Denmark is over 50%.  It's just more fantasy bullshit that conservative pundits like to peddle as fact.  There is no logical basis for it and there is no evidence to support it. 

List of countries.

 

[triplehorn 2664]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

How the Republicans rebound after Trump is going to have a lot to do with how the Democrats in office behave.  Like Lucy with the football, the Republicans are going to get away with whatever they can.  They will lie and say they never liked Trump or that Trump was holding the party hostage and they just want to get back to the way things used to be.  It will be the duty of the democrats to not tolerate that shit and call them out.  The GOP has shown the world exactly who they are and democrats will need to make sure America does not forget. 

They'll all be about looking forward, not backward

 

[SydneyCarton 49325]

1 minute ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I don't think they will do anything differently than they have done before when out of office.  They will obstruct anything that they can.  They will have Fox News and all the right wing media rip anything and everything the Democrats try to do with false talking points.  The Dems want to fix immigration/DACA (Right wing media will say they are letting in rapists from Mexico to come rape and kill us), address climate change ( Right wing media will say they are destroying jobs, the economy and everything that is good in this country) and the list goes on and on.  They are very good at putting a false narrative out there and they have hundreds of millions of people in this country that are too stupid to think for themselves and will believe it and vote for Trump Jr or Nikki Haley in 2024.

I think some version of this and Hugo's post is all our fears. While I'm concerned that we don't indict every motherfucker who we can prove cheated the government, there's also the very real chance that would lead to war. It will just be spun as trump is trying to spin against the Democrats now, which is them arresting political opponents. It's dangerous. But I also agree that doing nothing means they'll keep doing it. You have to win over hearts and minds.

As for the policy matters, you take every fucking video of every POS republican talking about a mandate of the white house and senate to enact their policies the last 4 fucking years, and you put that fucking shit on repeat. Have a cutup on your phone were you fucking play it every time anyone asks you about adding senate seats for DC and Puerto Rico (if they want it). Play it on repeat about packing the court. About a voting rights act. About prosecuting fucking crimnials. About abolishing the electoral college. ABOUT FUCKING EVERYTHING. AMERICA GAVE US A MANDATE MOTHERFUCKERS. FOR ONCE WE'RE USING IT. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

3 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I don't think they will do anything differently than they have done before when out of office.  They will obstruct anything that they can.  They will have Fox News and all the right wing media rip anything and everything the Democrats try to do with false talking points.  The Dems want to fix immigration/DACA (Right wing media will say they are letting in rapists from Mexico to come rape and kill us), address climate change ( Right wing media will say they are destroying jobs, the economy and everything that is good in this country) and the list goes on and on.  They are very good at putting a false narrative out there and they have hundreds of millions of people in this country that are too stupid to think for themselves and will believe it and vote for Trump Jr or Nikki Haley in 2024.

Nikki Haley is definitely in my top 3 or 5 of likely to win the 2024 nomination right now.  She was literally I think the only person ever associated with the admin that seemed to get in without kissing his ring and get out without an absurd food fight. She might have a better chance of bridging the two sides of the party than anyone else. I'm not arguing for her as great, or even good, I'm just saying I think she's in my top 3 if I'm making odds right now. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

The people around Biden are going to have to tell him in no uncertain terms that we are not going to move forward as a country unless we prosecute this clown and his sycophants for all the damage they did/American taxpayer dollars they stole while he was in office. Simply saying it is time for the country to heal is not going to cut it and Elizabeth Warren needs to be in his ear repeatedly reminding him of this. You cannot let this traitor off the hook just because he is no longer president. This is simply not an option that should be given any serious thought after we he has done.

I don’t feel good about having this conversation before the election is decided but the best thing Biden can do is appoint an independent AG and then distance himself from that person as much as possible so it doesn’t come off as vindictive retribution, which no doubt is exactly how the right will portray it.  

The obstruction of justice case from the Mueller investigation is the best place to start b/c it was done while Trump was in office, all the evidence/legal reasoning is a matter of public record, and there is a mountain of it.  Mueller himself is on the record saying he would/could prosecute Trump once he’s out of office. 

[Beau Vine 55824]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nikki Haley is definitely in my top 3 or 5 of likely to win the 2024 nomination right now.  She was literally I think the only person ever associated with the admin that seemed to get in without kissing his ring and get out without an absurd food fight. She might have a better chance of bridging the two sides of the party than anyone else. I'm not arguing for her as great, or even good, I'm just saying I think she's in my top 3 if I'm making odds right now. 

 

[6th Street 6654]

Supposedly she blew Donny

[jimmyjazz 46972]

3 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Supposedly she blew Donny

How would she know?

[South Austin 53154]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nikki Haley is definitely in my top 3 or 5 of likely to win the 2024 nomination right now.  She was literally I think the only person ever associated with the admin that seemed to get in without kissing his ring and get out without an absurd food fight. She might have a better chance of bridging the two sides of the party than anyone else. I'm not arguing for her as great, or even good, I'm just saying I think she's in my top 3 if I'm making odds right now women I'd like to bang. 

I'll say it for you.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

I'm not saying she's never said anything nice about him- I'm saying she didn't seem to become a sycophant like Curz and Graham.  And if you note the two things she talked about you can see she's talking about the economy- which he gets high marks for within the party and even amongst America as a whole it's where he gets the strongest support (least bad area) and Foreign Policy- which as UN Ambassador she had a role in. She's obviously carefully carving out the most palatable part of his record/the part that she had something to do with.  I'm not saying the strategy will work- but that's obviously her play- I'm palatable to both parts of the party. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

5 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Supposedly she blew Donny

Senior or Junior?  I mean- either way gross, but just curious. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

Just now, South Austin said:

I'll say it for you.

Politicians?  Maybe. She's not hot though. It would literally have to be by comparison. I've never looked at her and said- boy- that one is hot. 

[Foosters 18224]

Quote

She even tries to explain his continuing flattery of Mr. Putin, describing a conversation with him after the Helsinki meeting.

“To his credit,” she writes, “the president soon issued additional remarks, saying he had misspoken.” She adds: “I was glad he made that clarification, and I understood what he had been trying to do. He was trying to keep communication open with Putin.”

She also credits Mr. Trump with learning from the experience of Charlottesville, and handling synagogue shootings in Pittsburgh and near San Diego “with great sensitivity and appropriateness.”

 

Ms. Haley’s loyalty to Mr. Trump’s view of the world has been rewarded with a presidential endorsement. “Make sure you order your copy today, or stop by one of her book tour stops to get a copy and say hello. Good luck Nikki!” Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter.

 

[Thatguy 9289]

4 hours ago, ztejas said:

That's not really a president thing. The MIC along with the CIA operate pretty independently of who's in office. There are/is plenty of black budget projects and classified information that the president is not privy to.

But that might be too much "conspiracy" for this forum. It seems like y'all are against that sort of stuff but I could be wrong.

     You might want to check his military budget and then dig a little deeper.

[Chad Fuck 18090]

I’m pretty sure that is my grandparents old house.

Don’t tell em it’s been taken over by hipsters.

[conVINCEd 21477]

1 minute ago, Chad Fuck said:

Don’t tell em it’s been taken over by hipsters.

Is Barnes Bridge/Ferguson in the general vicinity of where you took the pic?

[Aqua Buddha 14782]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

They'll all be about looking forward, not backward

 

Everyone knew this would happen.  They'll go on MTP and Chuck Todd will treat them seriously with a straight face.

[Gil Bang 26176]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Just grabbing this one point -- and thanks for bringing it up.

My wife and I have already discussed this.  We haven't flown our flag in four years.  If we take back the White House for the people, I'll have it flying from our house at dawn the next day.  And yes, we need to reclaim it.  It needs to show up at our marches and demonstrations.  It needs to show up when we show up.  Because it's OUR country.  And that flag can and should stand for something different and better than the fuckstick Trumpers have claimed it for.  Dems need to reclaim the flag, and they need to reclaim patriotism (not nationalism, but patriotism).  We love our country so much that we're willing to do whatever we can to point it in the right direction; to make it an America for ALL Americans.  That's the essence of true patriotism.  Fuck the Trumpers for claiming a country that belongs to all of us as just theirs.

Polar opposite here.  I bought a flag after the election, and I've been flying it daily since then.  Even replaced it when it gets ratty looking.   I hate trump with the heat of a thousand suns, but I wanted to stake my own claim on the flag.  It's mine too.   And you can sure as fuck hate trump and love the USA at the same time.  And I mean love the USA the way you love one of your kids, even after they get caught smoking pot at school. 

[hornmpa96 2652]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nikki Haley is definitely in my top 3 or 5 of likely to win the 2024 nomination right now.  She was literally I think the only person ever associated with the admin that seemed to get in without kissing his ring and get out without an absurd food fight. She might have a better chance of bridging the two sides of the party than anyone else. I'm not arguing for her as great, or even good, I'm just saying I think she's in my top 3 if I'm making odds right now. 

Why do you think there are 2 sides left in the party? Its the party of Trump now and that's why his approval rate within is greater than 90%. He ran off the Republicans with principles. As Jim Acosta said, the only people left are "true believers and next of kin."

Will suburban women and college graduates flock back to this party? It may only be possible if we start seeing the enablers pulled into the streets and treated like the Nazi sympathizers in Holland.

[Ghost of LL 15664]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Everyone knew this would happen.  They'll go on MTP and Chuck Todd will treat them seriously with a straight face.

Yup.  I called that 18 months ago.  And I'm not exactly a political Nostradamus.  

But that's why it's so critical to take the Senate and eliminate the filibuster.

[ztejas 44114]

33 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

     You might want to check his military budget and then dig a little deeper.

What are you referring to? I'm not really talking about marginal increases or decreases compared to GDP that are largely irrelevant to my point. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

1 minute ago, hornmpa96 said:

Why do you think there are 2 sides left in the party? Its the party of Trump now and that's why his approval rate within is greater than 90%. He ran off the Republicans with principles. As Jim Acosta said, the only people left are "true believers and next of kin."

Will suburban women and college graduates flock back to this party? It may only be possible if we start seeing the enablers pulled into the streets and treated like the Nazi sympathizers in Holland.

What is the saying- success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.  Nobody in the party apparatus likes Trump. Nobody.  But, he successfully executed a hostile takeover and that's the way the winds were blowing and he won.  But after he loses?  There will be two sides to the party.  Because nobody likes a loser. Trump built his entire brand on calling other people losers. When he loses spectacularly I don't know how that brand can stay intact.  

[Foosters 18224]

13 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Everyone knew this would happen.  They'll go on MTP and Chuck Todd will treat them seriously with a straight face.

[hayden_horn 11401]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nikki Haley is definitely in my top 3 or 5 of likely to win the 2024 nomination right now.  She was literally I think the only person ever associated with the admin that seemed to get in without kissing his ring and get out without an absurd food fight. She might have a better chance of bridging the two sides of the party than anyone else. I'm not arguing for her as great, or even good, I'm just saying I think she's in my top 3 if I'm making odds right now. 

 

2 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

Why do you think there are 2 sides left in the party? Its the party of Trump now and that's why his approval rate within is greater than 90%. He ran off the Republicans with principles. As Jim Acosta said, the only people left are "true believers and next of kin."

Will suburban women and college graduates flock back to this party? It may only be possible if we start seeing the enablers pulled into the streets and treated like the Nazi sympathizers in Holland.

 

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I'm not saying she's never said anything nice about him- I'm saying she didn't seem to become a sycophant like Curz and Graham.  And if you note the two things she talked about you can see she's talking about the economy- which he gets high marks for within the party and even amongst America as a whole it's where he gets the strongest support (least bad area) and Foreign Policy- which as UN Ambassador she had a role in. She's obviously carefully carving out the most palatable part of his record/the part that she had something to do with.  I'm not saying the strategy will work- but that's obviously her play- I'm palatable to both parts of the party. 

yeah, i think that's a bit of wishful thinking, wulaw, i'm sorry to say. and you can blame republican politicians for tonguing the asshole of the orange hobgoblin currently occupying the white house. we need to lay the blame at the feet of ted cruz, john cornyn, and, yes, nikki fucking haley. i thought she was one of the good guys when she was at the un and when she resigned, but she fucking sold out as well. the only way to survive in the current nightmarish landscape of the republican party is to kowtow to that 90% of trump supporters. anyone with integrity actually left office, because they saw the writing on the fucking wall. the rest may pretend to get religion in a post-trump world, but they've sold out worse than any politician in american history, which has splintered the republican party, perhaps forever. most "republicans against trump" maybe haven't realized that they have permanently left the party yet, but i think that ship has sailed for the george conways of the world. as hornmpa points out, just look at trump's approval rating amongst self-identifying republicans. that doesn't mean that the republican party of ten years ago support him at such a high rate. that means that there are fewer republicans out there these days.

[LCHorn 2749]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t feel good about having this conversation before the election is decided but the best thing Biden can do is appoint an independent AG and then distance himself from that person as much as possible so it doesn’t come off as vindictive retribution, which no doubt is exactly how the right will portray it.  

The obstruction of justice case from the Mueller investigation is the best place to start b/c it was done while Trump was in office, all the evidence/legal reasoning is a matter of public record, and there is a mountain of it.  Mueller himself is on the record saying he would/could prosecute Trump once he’s out of office. 

I don't know why you think an AG with a reputation for independence won't still get beaten up on by the right. 

The biggest problem that the Democrats, presuming victory, need to solve is how to make SOMETHING work (which is they need to prioritize policy that improves how government functions) because voters in 2022 will have been blasted with two years of "it's the damn liberals making your life shitty" no matter how high a road a Biden executive/Dem Congress might take. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

21 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

 

yeah, i think that's a bit of wishful thinking, wulaw, i'm sorry to say. and you can blame republican politicians for tonguing the asshole of the orange hobgoblin currently occupying the white house. we need to lay the blame at the feet of ted cruz, john cornyn, and, yes, nikki fucking haley. i thought she was one of the good guys when she was at the un and when she resigned, but she fucking sold out as well. the only way to survive in the current nightmarish landscape of the republican party is to kowtow to that 90% of trump supporters. anyone with integrity actually left office, because they saw the writing on the fucking wall. the rest may pretend to get religion in a post-trump world, but they've sold out worse than any politician in american history, which has splintered the republican party, perhaps forever. most "republicans against trump" maybe haven't realized that they have permanently left the party yet, but i think that ship has sailed for the george conways of the world. as hornmpa points out, just look at trump's approval rating amongst self-identifying republicans. that doesn't mean that the republican party of ten years ago support him at such a high rate. that means that there are fewer republicans out there these days.

Like I said- I don't know if it works for her, but that appears to be her bet.  Also- you are talking about the sitting president running for re-election where everyone is motivated to rally around the guy at the top of the ticket. If he gets blown out the number of support is going to be well lower than 90% is what I'm positing.  

[Ghost of LL 15664]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t feel good about having this conversation before the election is decided but the best thing Biden can do is appoint an independent AG and then distance himself from that person as much as possible so it doesn’t come off as vindictive retribution, which no doubt is exactly how the right will portray it.  

The obstruction of justice case from the Mueller investigation is the best place to start b/c it was done while Trump was in office, all the evidence/legal reasoning is a matter of public record, and there is a mountain of it.  Mueller himself is on the record saying he would/could prosecute Trump once he’s out of office. 

I think it needs to be a sichelschnitt.  Make it lightning-fast.  There's no need for an investigation of the obstruction of justice; that was already done.  There's no need for an investigation of the bribery; that was done by the House Judiciary Committee.  Go to the grand jury and get an indictment as quick as possible.  Make an arrest.  Hold your trial in the District Court for the District of Columbia.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Ghost of LL

[AngryDragon 273]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is one of many reasons the potential Biden administration should avoid “turning the page” on Trump for the sake of “unity”, should he win.

Trump needs to be prosecuted for his crimes in office.  A failure to do so will only enable Trumpism to fester and re-emerge worse.  

I unfortunately expect the Biden administration to do exactly what they should not do and sweep Trump under the rug for political expediency reasons.  It is the wrong move and one of my major concerns with Biden. 

If there's a way to get me off the Dem train it's this. These assholes need to pay and EVERYTHING needs to come to light.

[Thatguy 9289]

6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

    Secretly bolstering the military while no one is looking.

 

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

That's not really a president thing. The MIC along with the CIA operate pretty independently of who's in office. There are/is plenty of black budget projects and classified information that the president is not privy to.

But that might be too much "conspiracy" for this forum. It seems like y'all are against that sort of stuff but I could be wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

     You might want to check his military budget and then dig a little deeper.

 

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

What are you referring to? I'm not really talking about marginal increases or decreases compared to GDP that are largely irrelevant to my point. 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Thatguy

[Bozo_Casanova 26773]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nikki Haley is definitely in my top 3 or 5 of likely to win the 2024 nomination right now.  She was literally I think the only person ever associated with the admin that seemed to get in without kissing his ring and get out without an absurd food fight. She might have a better chance of bridging the two sides of the party than anyone else. I'm not arguing for her as great, or even good, I'm just saying I think she's in my top 3 if I'm making odds right now. 

Do you actually pay attention to politics? Serious question. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

lol at Nikki Haley

Get the fuck outta here.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Do you actually pay attention to politics? Serious question. 

I've told you this many a time- not a ton and not to details. Macro trends- sure. General awareness?  Yeah.  Individual drill down and pay attention to whose cheating who and whose ratfucking who?  No, not at all. I pay more attention to politics than likely 80% of the population.  Most everything I get from political news is here or top 2 articles of the day on real clear politics- once a week or twice a month- except during elections when I read way more horse race stuff.  
You guys pay more attention than 98% of the population. It's why I'm better at the horserace shit and prognostication than a bunch of you guys.  

[Captainant 28385]

[thepop 4418]

 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Do you actually pay attention to politics? Serious question. 

If you want to pick someone to be in your top 5 handicapping by all means go ahead.  WE can see if they get further than Haley. Even make a wager if you want to on the thing.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

3 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

lol at Nikki Haley

Get the fuck outta here.

Again- same fucking point. You pick someone right now- 4.5 years before the nomination and we can see how close you get. It's a prediction not an endorsement. 

[Beau Vine 55824]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I'm not saying she's never said anything nice about him- I'm saying she didn't seem to become a sycophant like Curz and Graham. 

Real high bar there...

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

Just now, Beau Vine said:

Real high bar there...

Well, that's the comparison, unfortunately, with most of the rest of the party.  

[thepop 4418]

The only reason you think Haley hasn't been as bad as Cruz and Graham is because she hasn't been on TV as often. When she's had the opportunity, she's puckered up like the rest of them.