2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[SimonBolivar 10898]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

What would you put the chances at for someone taking a shot at a SCOTUS justice, out of curiosity? 

Has to be higher than usual.

[wildcat09 29187]

14 minutes ago, texastough said:

Under any scenario I can think of. I can see protests, threats all over social media, etc. Perhaps isolated incidents of violence, looting, etc. But aside from some small town police departments, law enforcement and the military would never support trump. The powerful trump supporters wouldn't incite violence, bad for business. I just don't see it.

Law enforcement writ large would absolutely support Trump. They fucking love him. And the military might not like him, but they're not going to deploy in American streets to protect liberal protesters. Either way, the violence mostly won't even be from cops, it will be from right-wing freaks that the cops ignore while they drive their cars into crowds and shit.

There have already been over 100 instances of people driving vehicles into protesters this year. That will increase by orders of magnitude if there are widespread protests following a contested election. Mix in a lot of Kyle Rittenhouse types egged on by Fox News who will get even more leeway and tacit support from police, and pissed off liberals who are more than ready to shoot back.

[wildcat09 29187]

10 minutes ago, The Dog said:

These lawsuits are going to look ridiculous if Biden is ahead on election day in places like Pennsylvania and others.

They are all based on the assumption that Trump will be ahead and that Biden will need all of the mail in votes counted in order to take the lead. 

I'm not sure that assumption is what is going to occur.

This is my hope. The GOP has clearly gone all in on the expectation that Trump will be up early in swing states, at which point they'll use litigation to intervene and stop the counts. But because they're incompetent slap dicks they fucked with the USPS, leading to a ton of Dems just voting early in person and using drop boxes.

[lemonlime 5503]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Kavanaugh pretty clearly wants SCOTUS to steal the election for Trump. This is fine.

 

4 hours ago, immamac said:

I mean it's a good thing Roberts and Gorsuch aren't pieces of shit. I don't think Clarence Thomas would support it either. 

That's 5 easy. Stop acting cuz ACB and Kavanaugh are morally bankrupt partisan stooges that the rest of the SC doesn't get it and are equally braindead. There's some "showmanship" involved in dissent or votes. Many of the Judges look not only at the letter of the law, but how it will effect the future. RBG didn't convince people to change their legal opinion she convinced people the future was better with a certain valid legal opinion. To think the rest of the supreme court is just a toxic cancer waste pool is insulting and if you think that then ACB doesn't matter. 

RBG wasn't the only bastion of hope and good thing about the SC. 

ACB, Roberts, and Kavanaugh all worked for Bush's legal team on Bush v. Gore.  Thomas and Alito are partisan hacks.  There's your five, with the possible addition of Gorsuch.  The push to confirm ACB in record time was clearly an attempt to steal the election for trump.  The only question is whether they'll be successful.

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

23 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I hear but Florida in 2020 is not Florida from 2000. They seem to be relatively good about finishing up the vote count early in Florida now. Perhaps there could be some delays due to technical problems and/or long lines. regardless even Fox News will have a hard time not calling Florida if their SoS says all the votes are in and counted. Now if it's a tight vote total, then maybe there will be an automatic recount that will take place later.

Florida is one of a handful of states (Arizona is another) that allows mail in ballots to be both processed and counted up to two weeks before the Election day.  Assuming they don't purposefully sit on mail in ballots - Florida should be done counting relatively quickly.

[workswithseed 2033]

23 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yep. And that was shown in 2018 and will be shown again. 

Trump wasn't on the ballot. 

[SimonBolivar 10898]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

They fucking love him. 

Yep and their fat wives with Blue Lives Matter stickers on their SUVs will make great human shields once the fighting starts.

[The Dog 43771]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is my hope. The GOP has clearly gone all in on the expectation that Trump will be up early in swing states, at which point they'll use litigation to intervene and stop the counts. But because they're incompetent slap dicks they fucked with the USPS, leading to a ton of Dems just voting early in person and using drop boxes.

Another thing to consider is that the GOP has encouraged their supporters to wait until election day, when they could be faced with a logistical nightmare due to COVID. Poll places have strict social distancing measures and will limit the number of people voting at once which will lead to long lines. You're could see some people say "fuck it' and just go home.

[Snake Diggity 4614]

My guess is in the unlikely event Trump claims victory in the face of convincing defeat, the immediate revolt would look a lot like the BLM protests, except 1/3 of the “protesters” will have guns and the other 2/3 will have Molotov cocktails.  After that initial wave it’s hard to guess how it would evolve, but I think Democrat governors would be huge influences on how it proceeded from there.  Hopefully they have the stones if it goes that route.  But I don’t expect it to go down like that. I expect Trump to bitch and whine but ultimately concede on Tuesday.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Law enforcement writ large would absolutely support Trump. They fucking love him. And the military might not like him, but they're not going to deploy in American streets to protect liberal protesters.

The National Guard would absolutely deploy if called upon by governors.  They're not going to ignore orders.  That's asking for prison time.

Greg Abbott might not do shit, but Andrew Cuomo would, as an example.

[SimonBolivar 10898]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

Another thing to consider is that the GOP has encouraged their supporters to wait until election day, when they could be faced with a logistical nightmare due to COVID. Poll places have strict social distancing measures and will limit the number of people voting at once which will lead to long lines. You're could see some people say "fuck it' and just go home.

"We would've won if..."

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

Fuck, i man Leslie Stahl has received death threats and probably needs a security detail now. It's fucked up beyond belief

Edited October 27, 2020 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Brisketexan 104465]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Fuck, i man Leslie Stahl has received death threats avs probably needs a security detail now. It's fucked up beyond belief

Again, an active group of fascist irregulars working consistently with exhortations from the POTUS was plotting a violent kidnapping of a sitting governor.  Their plan involved using lethal force and destroying infrastructure.  That's ALREADY happened.

When Trump makes statements after November 3rd that he is the rightful president, and the governors of X, Y, and Z are working with crooked judges 1, 2, and 3 to steal the election, and they are "enemies of the state"......think there are more folks out there like the Michigan bunch? There are.  A lot of them.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Fauci requires a security detail now.

Failed state.

[BrickHorn 18176]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Y’all need to listen to the podcast “It Could Happen Here.” This country is much closer to civil war than any of us (save Brisket) understood or wanted to admit. The fascist moron right has been preparing for and lusting after it for years. Unless Biden wins convincingly, I expect shit to get really interesting in a really bad way on November 4.

[The Dog 43771]

We interrupt the dystopian fantasies with another bad poll for Trump:

 

[Brisketexan 104465]

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Y’all need to listen to the podcast “It Could Happen Here.” This country is much closer to civil war than any of us (save Brisket) understood or wanted to admit. The fascist moron right has been preparing for and lusting after it for years. Unless Biden wins convincingly, I expect shit to get really interesting in a really bad way on November 4.

 

And also....

 

We are in a very, very dangerous place.  And I really don't know if we can get out of it.

[wildcat09 29187]

3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Y’all need to listen to the podcast “It Could Happen Here.” This country is much closer to civil war than any of us (save Brisket) understood or wanted to admit. The fascist moron right has been preparing for and lusting after it for years. Unless Biden wins convincingly, I expect shit to get really interesting in a really bad way on November 4.

If we're plugging the Robert Evans expanded podcast universe, Behind the Bastards is way more entertaining.

[Rimbo 25752]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You can hope so. I say but for the grace of God go I. I come from a long line of lower middle class people and watched my parents break out of that after I was in my teenage years. Being a “downscale white” isn’t necessarily a moral failing. 

It is if you end up at Texas A&M.

[Jive Turkey 12562]

Kavanaugh is in the bag to help Trump on election night and beyond. This tweet thread about his concurrence in the  Wisconsin case is pretty scorching. 

 

[Storm the Field 5270]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

We interrupt the dystopian fantasies with another bad poll for Trump:

 

Was 48-42 last month. Only 4% undecided between Trump and Biden. Rest indicated third-party support or not planning to vote.

FWIW, Biden +5 or 6 would be my guess for final NV result as of this morning. Something like 50.5-45-4.5

[RomaVicta 29756]

18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

What would you put the chances at for someone taking a shot at a SCOTUS justice, out of curiosity? 

 

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Also higher than it's been in any memory.

That's the danger of turning every political action into warfare.  Someone may take you up on it.

 

17 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Has to be higher than usual.

 

8 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Fuck, i man Leslie Stahl has received death threats and probably needs a security detail now. It's fucked up beyond belief

 

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, an active group of fascist irregulars working consistently with exhortations from the POTUS was plotting a violent kidnapping of a sitting governor.  Their plan involved using lethal force and destroying infrastructure.  That's ALREADY happened.

When Trump makes statements after November 3rd that he is the rightful president, and the governors of X, Y, and Z are working with crooked judges 1, 2, and 3 to steal the election, and they are "enemies of the state"......think there are more folks out there like the Michigan bunch? There are.  A lot of them.

All of this. If 60% of the people believe their vote was nullified by a crooked Supreme Court, there will be repurcussions. Expanding the court is the best most peaceful way to defuse the bomb created by the criminal GOP.

With enough power in the House and Senate, I'd like to revisit Kavanaugh's finances as grounds for impeachment.  I'd investigate the other recent GOP appointees, too. I believe that GOP office holders are doing everything they can to stay out of jail just as you would expect of the criminal operation they have become. They've done this by having dirty judges planted on the Supreme Court.

Dirty foreign money has flooded the GOP. If they lose power, they know that that is the point of attack. Whether you took that money knowingly, unknowingly, or willfully unknowingly, you are vulnerable to prosecution, jail, and public humiliation. The cynical GOPs will justify their actions as survival. Self-deceiving, crooked GOPs will tell themselves that the ends justifies the means.

I believe the situation is as dire as Brisket describes. I differ in not predicting the worst of outcomes, but that's only because I have no idea what happens next. I do think there will be blood. I do think we will wonder where the Army stands. 

We're a banana republic. Judges get killed in those. Decent men and women disappear. The Army appears in the streets to "save the country." 

I think it's more likely that Trumpists take these methods when Trump loses. However, if Trump refuses to go through further corruption of the republic, then the anti-Trumpists (Dems and disgusted conservatives) will flood the streets. Who stands opposed to these demonstrators? Was the BLM response from the Bunker Bitch just a rehearsal? Was the paint ball and mace parade in Portland a rehearsal?

I think it was Tantric Superman who PM'ed me a while back to say I should throttle back on the vehement posts because I was sounding like Brisket. He was right, I was merely being repetitive and tiresome. Thanks for that feedback. Still, I have the same feeling about the gathering dark clouds. A Biden victory does not cure the disease of Trumpism; it just puts it into remission. 

[Bateshorn 9882]

Yeah, Nevada having a strong LDS population which will not vote D, but also not Trump is not helping the GOP.  A pretty significant well of 3rd party/not voting, imo. 

[The Dog 43771]

4 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Yeah, Nevada having a strong LDS population which will not vote D, but also not Trump is not helping the GOP.  A pretty significant well of 3rd party/not voting, imo. 

IIRC Trump's pitch in Nevada was to the service workers and entertainers who are furloughed/out of work due to COVID lockdowns and restrictions. He was hoping to swing them to his side since Biden supports the lockdowns and he wants to re-open. It doesn't appear to be resonating like he hoped.

He also was leading in the RCP average four years ago (barely) heading into election day but Hillabeast out-performed the polls to win Nevada in a close one (2.4%) So I think Trump thought he had more of a shot there due to that. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by The Dog

[Bateshorn 9882]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

 

 

 

 

All of this. If 60% of the people believe their vote was nullified by a crooked Supreme Court, there will be repurcussions. Expanding the court is the best most peaceful way to defuse the bomb created by the criminal GOP.

With enough power in the House and Senate, I'd like to revisit Kavanaugh's finances as grounds for impeachment.  I'd investigate the other recent GOP appointees, too. I believe that GOP office holders are doing everything they can to stay out of jail just as you would expect of the criminal operation they have become. They've done this by having dirty judges planted on the Supreme Court.

Dirty foreign money has flooded the GOP. If they lose power, they know that that is the point of attack. Whether you took that money knowingly, unknowingly, or willfully unknowingly, you are vulnerable to prosecution, jail, and public humiliation. The cynical GOPs will justify their actions as survival. Self-deceiving, crooked GOPs will tell themselves that the ends justifies the means.

I believe the situation is as dire as Brisket describes. I differ in not predicting the worst of outcomes, but that's only because I have no idea what happens next. I do think there will be blood. I do think we will wonder where the Army stands. 

We're a banana republic. Judges get killed in those. Decent men and women disappear. The Army appears in the streets to "save the country." 

I think it's more likely that Trumpists take these methods when Trump loses. However, if Trump refuses to go through further corruption of the republic, then the anti-Trumpists (Dems and disgusted conservatives) will flood the streets. Who stands opposed to these demonstrators? Was the BLM response from the Bunker Bitch just a rehearsal? Was the paint ball and mace parade in Portland a rehearsal?

I think it was Tantric Superman who PM'ed me a while back to say I should throttle back on the vehement posts because I was sounding like Brisket. He was right, I was merely being repetitive and tiresome. Thanks for that feedback. Still, I have the same feeling about the gathering dark clouds. A Biden victory does not cure the disease of Trumpism; it just puts it into remission. 

I can’t remember where I read it, but a couple of journalists have gone over Thomas’ testimony, his timelines, other witnesses and definitively determined he lied under oath during his Supreme Court testimony.  

[Rimbo 25752]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm still waiting for the rest of y'all to figure out what quite a few of us have: it's ALREADY worse than you think.

No, it's not. I'm not telling you that this can't happen (though it's unlikely), or that we shouldn't be prepared for it to happen (cost of liberty is eternal vigilance and all that), but you've gone full nuts to think it's already happened.

Trump can and will TRY to steal the election, and a handful of his more militant supporters are going to continue trying dumb things, but these are being caught out as they happen and aren't getting much success. Largely because the people behind them really are stupid, from the head guy on down. They make stupid mistakes because they don't understand how things work in this country. These are the guys who couldn't even get a "B" in Social Studies, the easiest layup in the American educational system.

They are not going to succeed because:

1. We outnumber the living fuck out of them,

2. They don't understand the very system they're trying to overthrow, and thus are going to be fucked at every turn, and

3. They're just plain too dumb to be successful.

The rest of the GOP are politicians. They don't survive if they aren't able to smell what direction the wind is blowing. They are going to ditch Trump just as quickly as they supported him, and for the same reasons.

In summary...

[gmr548 16463]

We interrupt the dystopian fantasies with another bad poll for Trump:
 

I don’t think there’s a ton of question about the outcome of this election if it’s clean. Even Trump/GOP have kind of stopped seriously trying to win the election outright over the past month or so.

There is a lot of smoke indicating it won’t be, though. Or at least that the GOP is willing to do everything it can to foul it up if they think they can retain power that way.

It’s entirely possible Biden gets to 270 on election night and puts this to bed. But if this drags out waiting for those three rust belt states there are just too many ways the GOP can obstruct the process to feel good about it.

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Nah. There’s plenty of talk specifically about “the poors” on here that’s class driven. Which is fine- it is what it is and the way it’s always been. Most pols care about the poor to the extent that they can take advantage of them. 

oh for fuck's sake...you didn't grow up any poorer and certainly not in a worse place than i did.  and you're certainly no bigger a champion of the working poor than myself and many of my fellow Southeast Texans.

so drop your nuts and become a fucking man.

fucking sally...tells me all i need to know about how you grew up given how utterly weak and devoid of any toughness you are.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

These guys are fascists and it doesn’t end well, ever. 

[gmr548 16463]

IIRC Trump's pitch in Nevada was to the service workers and entertainers who are furloughed/out of work due to COVID lockdowns and restrictions. He was hoping to swing them to his side since Biden supports the lockdowns and he wants to re-open. It doesn't appear to be resonating like he hoped.
He also was leading in the RCP average four years ago (barely) heading into election day but Hillabeast out-performed the polls to win Nevada in a close one (2.4%) So I think Trump thought he had more of a shot there due to that. 

Wasserman has an interesting piece today detailing how polls over the last couple election cycles have underrated Republicans in the Midwest and southeast, and Democrats in Texas and the southwest.

If that trend played out, the current polls in WI, MI, and even PA (barely there) are all above the average GOP skew, but I’m not sure I trust the process right now if those are close. Florida and NC cut it pretty close too, could very well go Trump. But you could, very ironically, have a blue wall on the border that delivers the White House to Biden, on election night.

Unlikely to play out that way but man it’d be sweet.

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I don’t think there’s a ton of question about the outcome of this election if it’s clean. Even Trump/GOP have kind of stopped seriously trying to win the election outright over the past month or so.

There is a lot of smoke indicating it won’t be, though. Or at least that the GOP is willing to do everything it can to foul it up if they think they can retain power that way.

It’s entirely possible Biden gets to 270 on election night and puts this to bed. But if this drags out waiting for those three rust belt states there are just too many ways the GOP can obstruct the process to feel good about it.

Its always comes down to Florida (and Arizona).  Those two states should be able to tally their votes rather quickly on election day.  If Biden wins both of those he doesn't need to wait for vote totals in Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, or Pennsylvania to be sorted out - he'll be over 270.

[gmr548 16463]

Its always comes down to Florida (and Arizona).  Those two states should be able to tally their votes rather quickly on election day.  If Biden wins both of those he doesn't need to wait for vote totals in Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, or Pennsylvania to be sorted out - he'll be over 270.

NC is in that FL and AZ boat too, should get a call. But yes agreed in general. There’s no real Trump path to victory without Florida.

Feels great to count on Florida amirite???

[Rimbo 25752]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

And the vice versa. 

We've already seen the vice versa with that silly attempted coup in Michigan. Idiots do dumb things, get caught, get thrown in jail, story over.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

14 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

No, it's not. I'm not telling you that this can't happen (though it's unlikely), or that we shouldn't be prepared for it to happen (cost of liberty is eternal vigilance and all that), but you've gone full nuts to think it's already happened.

Trump can and will TRY to steal the election, and a handful of his more militant supporters are going to continue trying dumb things, but these are being caught out as they happen and aren't getting much success. Largely because the people behind them really are stupid, from the head guy on down. They make stupid mistakes because they don't understand how things work in this country. These are the guys who couldn't even get a "B" in Social Studies, the easiest layup in the American educational system.

They are not going to succeed because:

1. We outnumber the living fuck out of them,

2. They don't understand the very system they're trying to overthrow, and thus are going to be fucked at every turn, and

3. They're just plain too dumb to be successful.

The rest of the GOP are politicians. They don't survive if they aren't able to smell what direction the wind is blowing. They are going to ditch Trump just as quickly as they supported him, and for the same reasons.

In summary...

100% correct. What I’ve been saying for years. The funny thing is the more real world events backs up you and I, the more the ledge people are convinced they are right. Alternate universe. 

[wildcat09 29187]

2 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

We've already seen the vice versa with that silly attempted coup in Michigan. Idiots do dumb things, get caught, get thrown in jail, story over.

After the election, either way it goes, Trump is going to fire Wray and install some toady who will shut down any and all investigations of right-wing militia and white supremacist types. That's pretty much a guarantee.

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Trump will absolutely try to steal this election.  To date, Republicans have done ZERO to curb his fascist tendencies.   Abso-fucking-lutely nothing.  Now he has a packed SCOTUS that I have zero faith in as a backstop.   It will get ugly and, likely, violent

 

 

They’ll distance unless they want to lose governorships and congressional races and even more localized races all over 2/3 of the country.  Being party to subverting the American voters is instant death. 

[Rimbo 25752]

44 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, an active group of fascist irregulars working consistently with exhortations from the POTUS was plotting a violent kidnapping of a sitting governor.  Their plan involved using lethal force and destroying infrastructure.  That's ALREADY happened.

 

... and it was snuffed out and the perps are now behind bars.

You have to look at the totality of the evidence. You can't just throw out facts because they inconvenience your paranoid fantasies.

[4th&Five 41457]

the second he loses he becomes a liability to the GOP.  they'll cut bait and remove him if they have to,

[Brisketexan 104465]

Just now, Rimbo said:

... and it was snuffed out and the perps are now behind bars.

You have to look at the totality of the evidence. You can't just throw out facts because they inconvenience your paranoid fantasies.

Sure.  Just like kamikazes, it's a numbers game.  One stupid plot?  We've got a good chance of busting it.  A dozen of them simultaneously?  One or more will slip through.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

16 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

oh for fuck's sake...you didn't grow up any poorer and certainly not in a worse place than i did.  and you're certainly no bigger a champion of the working poor than myself and many of my fellow Southeast Texans.

so drop your nuts and become a fucking man.

fucking sally...tells me all i need to know about how you grew up given how utterly weak and devoid of any toughness you are.

Ok, cool Hook ‘Em. 
also- are you a politician?  That’s who I clearly was talking about when I said most Pols (as in accepted shorthand for politicians)...so what the fuck exactly does that have to do with you? 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Brisketexan 104465]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

the second he loses he becomes a liability to the GOP.  they'll cut bait and remove him if they have to,

Y'all keep saying this as if he doesn't control the base as a cult.  He does.  They will do whatever he says.  Because he controls the base, he controls the party, even if he's not a current elected official.  The GOP cannot alienate its base.  Its base will continue to take their marching orders from Trump.  Thus, so will the GOP.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Brisketexan

[wildcat09 29187]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

They’ll distance unless they want to lose governorships and congressional races and even more localized races all over 2/3 of the country.  Being party to subverting the American voters is instant death. 

They've been doing it pretty successfully for quite awhile. 

[Ghost of LL 15348]

4 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

It may be too late for mail in votes in WI.  

As several posters have already indicated, there's a fundamental problem with the GOP strategy.  The GOP is litigating on the basis that any restriction to voting is good and helps them.  But with 60M people having already voted, that's not true at all.  

Poll after poll reflects that the votes that have already been received heavily favor Biden.  That means two things--(1) the votes received from here on out will probably favor Trump (at least relative to the votes that have already been cast) and (2) Trump needs a lot of votes.  So the GOP should be shifting its litigation strategy to make it easier for people to vote from here on out.

But the GOP appears to be the Charlie Strong of litigants--they can't make halftime adjustments.  By disqualifying votes that are cast legally but received after election day, they're not disqualifying votes from Dane County (71% of which have already been received).  They're disqualifying votes from Trumpublican counties.  They're disqualifying their own votes.

And, on top of that, they're pissing off Independents.  We saw this in the Wisconsin special election this past summer, when the GOP tried its best to suppress the vote.  What happened--the GOP got fucking trounced.  It turns out that undermining democracy isn't very popular in a democracy.

I understand the concern.  But let's also look at the facts--these are stupid people who are bad at politics.

13 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I can’t remember where I read it, but a couple of journalists have gone over Thomas’ testimony, his timelines, other witnesses and definitively determined he lied under oath during his Supreme Court testimony.  

I have started to come to the conclusion that there's going to be some sort of bargain to avoid court packing done between Roberts and Biden.  Roberts is an institutionalist, and more than anything he's going to want to avoid court packing because it will undermine the authority and role of the Supreme Court.  So I think Roberts will agree that he and Thomas will retire in exchange for no court packing.

And this kind of stick is exactly what will be needed to get Thomas on board with that bargain.

[Rimbo 25752]

42 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Y’all need to listen to the podcast “It Could Happen Here.” This country is much closer to civil war than any of us (save Brisket) understood or wanted to admit. The fascist moron right has been preparing for and lusting after it for years. Unless Biden wins convincingly, I expect shit to get really interesting in a really bad way on November 4.

Why would I sign up to listen to your fan fiction? Why would I add myself to another mass delusional bubble? I'm going to stick to uninterpreted facts and ALL the facts, thanks.

[SizzleChest 8275]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

As several posters have already indicated, there's a fundamental problem with the GOP strategy.  The GOP is litigating on the basis that any restriction to voting is good and helps them.  But with 60M people having already voted, that's not true at all.  

Poll after poll reflects that the votes that have already been received heavily favor Biden.  That means two things--(1) the votes received from here on out will probably favor Trump (at least relative to the votes that have already been cast) and (2) Trump needs a lot of votes.  So the GOP should be shifting its litigation strategy to make it easier for people to vote from here on out.

But the GOP appears to be the Charlie Strong of litigants--they can't make halftime adjustments.  By disqualifying votes that are cast legally but received after election day, they're not disqualifying votes from Dane County (71% of which have already been received).  They're disqualifying votes from Trumpublican counties.  They're disqualifying their own votes.

And, on top of that, they're pissing off Independents.  We saw this in the Wisconsin special election this past summer, when the GOP tried its best to suppress the vote.  What happened--the GOP got fucking trounced.  It turns out that undermining democracy isn't very popular in a democracy.

I understand the concern.  But let's also look at the facts--these are stupid people who are bad at politics.

I have started to come to the conclusion that there's going to be some sort of bargain to avoid court packing done between Roberts and Biden.  Roberts is an institutionalist, and more than anything he's going to want to avoid court packing because it will undermine the authority and role of the Supreme Court.  So I think Roberts will agree that he and Thomas will retire in exchange for no court packing.

And this kind of stick is exactly what will be needed to get Thomas on board with that bargain.

How about Alito and Thomas?

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

They’ll distance unless they want to lose governorships and congressional races and even more localized races all over 2/3 of the country.  Being party to subverting the American voters is instant death. 

Yep. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Look folks, I can’t tell you exactly what will happen but we are easily entering the most dangerous period in my lifetime.  Listen to the people sounding the alarms.  Listen to the experts.  This isn’t going away. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

As several posters have already indicated, there's a fundamental problem with the GOP strategy.  The GOP is litigating on the basis that any restriction to voting is good and helps them.  But with 60M people having already voted, that's not true at all.  

Poll after poll reflects that the votes that have already been received heavily favor Biden.  That means two things--(1) the votes received from here on out will probably favor Trump (at least relative to the votes that have already been cast) and (2) Trump needs a lot of votes.  So the GOP should be shifting its litigation strategy to make it easier for people to vote from here on out.

But the GOP appears to be the Charlie Strong of litigants--they can't make halftime adjustments.  By disqualifying votes that are cast legally but received after election day, they're not disqualifying votes from Dane County (71% of which have already been received).  They're disqualifying votes from Trumpublican counties.  They're disqualifying their own votes.

And, on top of that, they're pissing off Independents.  We saw this in the Wisconsin special election this past summer, when the GOP tried its best to suppress the vote.  What happened--the GOP got fucking trounced.  It turns out that undermining democracy isn't very popular in a democracy.

I understand the concern.  But let's also look at the facts--these are stupid people who are bad at politics.

I have started to come to the conclusion that there's going to be some sort of bargain to avoid court packing done between Roberts and Biden.  Roberts is an institutionalist, and more than anything he's going to want to avoid court packing because it will undermine the authority and role of the Supreme Court.  So I think Roberts will agree that he and Thomas will retire in exchange for no court packing.

And this kind of stick is exactly what will be needed to get Thomas on board with that bargain.

This post is so so funny. Charlie strong reference. Stupid people who are bad at politics. Some of your best work at

explaining shit. Bravo. 

['stache 21743]

27 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

No, it's not. I'm not telling you that this can't happen (though it's unlikely), or that we shouldn't be prepared for it to happen (cost of liberty is eternal vigilance and all that), but you've gone full nuts to think it's already happened.

Trump can and will TRY to steal the election, and a handful of his more militant supporters are going to continue trying dumb things, but these are being caught out as they happen and aren't getting much success. Largely because the people behind them really are stupid, from the head guy on down. They make stupid mistakes because they don't understand how things work in this country. These are the guys who couldn't even get a "B" in Social Studies, the easiest layup in the American educational system.

They are not going to succeed because:

1. We outnumber the living fuck out of them,

2. They don't understand the very system they're trying to overthrow, and thus are going to be fucked at every turn, and

3. They're just plain too dumb to be successful.

The rest of the GOP are politicians. They don't survive if they aren't able to smell what direction the wind is blowing. They are going to ditch Trump just as quickly as they supported him, and for the same reasons.

In summary...

A few things give me comfort that the worst can be avoided. First, Roberts seems to want more than anything to keep SCOTUS from being deemed illegitimate so likely will try to steer clear of any implication of shinanigans. Second, the military leaders (those really high in command) appear to be level headed and many hate having an incompetent moron as Commander in Chief. Absent an enforceable order from SCOTUS, they will not be taking any orders from Trump after noon on January 20, and will start taking orders from Biden. Facist regimes usually have cooperation from the military (and coups against illigitmate leaders are sometimes led by the military). And even before January 20, they won't be authorizing force against US states or citizens as part of a post election strategy that are illegal (at worst they might continue tear gassing protesters but will not be opening fire against them if trump tells them to).

Edited October 27, 2020 by 'stache

[Rimbo 25752]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Y'all keep saying this as if he doesn't control the base as a cult.  He does.  They will do whatever he says.  Because he controls the base, he controls the party, even if he's not a current elected official.  The GOP cannot alienate its base.  Its base will continue to take their marching orders from Trump.  Thus, so will the GOP.

You are, yet again, filtering out actual facts to fit your delusion.

The base is only useful to the extent that they are able to win elections. If we see the massive anti-GOP landslide we expect from the polls, the GOP members will run so fast DK Metcalf couldn't catch them.