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2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Jack Straw

Jack Straw 2,954

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Hey that's me.

 

I do worry that the polls are wrong (more than the traditional +- margin) because too many people are embarassed to admit they are voting for Trump, not 10 points worth but 2 or 3 points worth. I

I think it’s significantly more than 2 or 3 points.  Then add in voter suppression, foreign interference, and outright election rigging - which will all be done out in the open and with the full and unapologetic support of the entire current GOP -  and which I predict will be off the charts in comparison to 2016 - and I think a Trump win is well beyond realistic, if not likely.  Not “no way he can’t win,” but the polls don’t mean much to me when I factor these things in.  Polls are only meaningful if there is a legitimate election process.  I have very close to zero confidence in that happening with Republicans involved.  

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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

I am so thrilled tonight! I spoke with my mom and asked her how my dad was taking the election. She said after every network declared Biden the winner, he turned off Fox News and said “Well, glad t

HenryJames
HenryJames
Thatguy
Thatguy

This was my experience in Galveston County, except for one thing. I came in and presented my ID to the geriatric at the front who printed out my pin number. I took my pin number to a table where two B

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FWD

FWD 297

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Yeah that makes sense, and I think it's a good play.  Give the red meat to the people on the internet who want the red meat.  Appeal to the larger group on television who doesn't follow politics by appealing to their better selves.  

My guess is they spend the summer building up Biden then in the last 2 months unleash a shitstorm of negative Trump ads.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45,692

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1 hour ago, Orale said:

Give him zero debates. As someone said above, Biden should just say what's the point, everything Trump says is a lie. 

The problem I see is that if Dotard says he wants to debate, which I find highly unlikely, and Biden turns it down, the general public is too stupid to understand why. Dotard would spin it into a manly man bullshit poo flinging tirade and some people in the middle would fall for it and think there was something wrong with Joe. I hate this simulation. 

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13,253

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14 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

The problem I see is that if Dotard says he wants to debate, which I find highly unlikely, and Biden turns it down, the general public is too stupid to understand why. Dotard would spin it into a manly man bullshit poo flinging tirade and some people in the middle would fall for it and think there was something wrong with Joe. I hate this simulation. 

Agree to as many debates as Donald wants with the condition that the stage is at the top of a ramp with no handrails.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12,271

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Posted
9 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

At this point I don't see how Trump doesn't win this November. Especially with all the unrest being shown on the news and spread around social media. I think that's enough to sway independents as long as Biden is silent to condemn what everyone is seeing. The presidential debates will be his moment, he's just gotta take advantage of it like he did in 2012.

 

Hillary ain't on the ballot this fall, pal. Give it up. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26,496

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1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Debating Trump would be a fucking beating.  He'd just drop a complete lie every few minutes and it would be everything Biden could do to not chase that down a hole.

But Biden is legit great at not doing that, as he showed against Palin. He just smiles and kind of softly chuckles and moves on. Hillary made the mistake of chasing them down because she’s a great litigator who is really bad at getting people to like her.

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Brandywine

Brandywine 1,316

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Posted
3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm not sure who the "they" is in this scenario, but isn't it just a negotiation between the campaigns with the press paying close attention?  if they both wanted to do one, there would only be one.  it's not like there's some debate law.  i don't even think the voters care at this point.

I know I don’t. I might watch 15 min of the first one. If there is a first one. 

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mchookem

mchookem 16,338

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Posted (edited)

i think if they have the debates, without an audience, Trump will look as bad as he actually is.

i mean, he's a vampire that feeds off crowd energy. the hoots and hollers from the basket when he drops one of his juvenile insults or one-liners is adrenaline direct to his veins, replete with hideous smirk. 

the Biden campaign could agree to debate but only without a live audience, just the two of them and the moderators, social distanced. for safety. the debate audience is supposed to be quiet anyway...there's really no purpose for them, easy to make the case they aren't needed. Trump forced to stand on his own, and be asked direct questions with someone right there to rebut him directly.

by contrast, Joe is so good at projecting empathy it comes through the tv.

honestly, i think it could be glorious. 

Edited by mchookem
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9,208

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Posted (edited)
On 6/16/2020 at 7:47 PM, Brandywine said:

I agree. But we’ve all said Biden has problems in front of people. Age, saying the wrong thing, not looking real sharp. Trump will say the same lies and statements that don’t make any sense but he may come across looking better. So I’m concerned that it may hurt Biden more than Trump. I hope they don’t debate. That way it looks like Trump either doesn’t want to, doesn’t respect Biden or is scared. 

Biden has to debate. I said on another thread that so far Biden's strategy has been not to give Trump that one talking point he can pound on mercilessly (Crooked Hillary) and play the offense that Trump likes to play. Biden being Biden and playing it slow and steady and safe has been a good strategy. It has given Trump nothing. Keep him on defense, don't let Trump play offense. 

Not debating would be that talking point that Trump could win with. It's the type of talking point Trump does really well with. Biden should just go debate, play safe, smile and talk about happy things, laugh stupid shit off with some grace (like @Bozo_Casanova mentioned he did vs. Palin), and get the W. Not much to it. I don't think that Trump can fluster Biden, and if he does, flustered Biden comes off as a nice guy who got pushed too far and finally got a little angry. It's blue-collar endearing when he does which is why in the attacking him usually backfires (RIP Julian Castro). It will also play well to olds and independents. He'll do fine. He's a lot more deft and teflon than a lot of you give him credit for.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29,194

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Posted
9 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i think if they have the debates, without an audience, Trump will look as bad as he actually is.

i mean, he's a vampire that feeds off crowd energy. the hoots and hollers from the basket when he drops one of his juvenile insults or one-liners is adrenaline direct to his veins, replete with hideous smirk. 

the Biden campaign could agree to debate but only without a live audience, just the two of them and the moderators, social distanced. for safety. the debate audience is supposed to be quiet anyway...there's really no purpose for them, easy to make the case they aren't needed. Trump forced to stand on his own, and be asked direct questions with someone right there to rebut him directly.

by contrast, Joe is so good at projecting empathy it comes through the tv.

honestly, i think it could be glorious. 

i think the results will confirm bias for both sides.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26,496

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The debates will be the most unwatchable shit shows in American politics.  They will influence no votes. 

They shouldn’t. TV Debates are dumb. Hopefully the American people will finally learn that lesson.

Narrator 2024: 

 

but they didn’t learn that lesson, which is how Donald Trump Jr became president, defeating Vice President Kamala Harris and billionaire Ashton Kutcher

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Doc Sam Beckett

Doc Sam Beckett 5,793

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

They shouldn’t. TV Debates are dumb. Hopefully the American people will finally learn that lesson.

Narrator 2024: 

  Hide contents

but they didn’t learn that lesson, which is how Donald Trump Jr became president, defeating Vice President Kamala Harris and billionaire Ashton Kutcher

Lulz fuck you 

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thepop

thepop 4,409

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Posted
2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I’m actually pissed off that I’m going to have to donate my own money to stop dumb motherfuckers from electing a fucking orange buffoon who shouldn’t be allowed near sharp objects. 

Yeah better off donating to Texas races or important senate races.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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I was checking Parscale's twitter yesterday. Like the President, he has been rather quiet since the rally. One retweet and that was all I saw.

Tomorrow, VP Pence and Kellyanne Conway will be in Pewaukee, Wisconsin for a Faith in America tour. Pewaukee is 94% white and a far outer suburb of Milwaukee.

 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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That's Chippewa (well, Ojibwe/Chippewa) area further to the north too. I don't know all the native tribes/locations so well. We lived there when the Ho-Chunk were working very hard to be recognized as Ho-Chunk after being called Winnebago for so long and the Chippewa were still being harassed over their fishing rights in the northern part of the state even though the legal battle had already been decided. It's a beautiful state with many natural resources, but the tribes were treated poorly all round for more than a century there.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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(replying to @kevwun)

Yes! There is a very large statue of him along the river. Can't recall near which town it's by but it was in Illinois and we drove a more scenic way one year heading south to see family. Where I get mixed up are the tribal names and the names the tribes were called by others. I prefer to use the name the tribe wishes be used, but as some of these were used interchangeably for many years, I often err.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15,539

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2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

That's Chippewa (well, Ojibwe/Chippewa) area further to the north too. I don't know all the native tribes/locations so well. We lived there when the Ho-Chunk were working very hard to be recognized as Ho-Chunk after being called Winnebago for so long and the Chippewa were still being harassed over their fishing rights in the northern part of the state even though the legal battle had already been decided. It's a beautiful state with many natural resources, but the tribes were treated poorly all round for more than a century there.

I'll acknowledge a broad ignorance when it comes to Wisconsin state history, so please fill me in--why did we call the Ho-Chunk "Winnebago" if that's not their name?

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13,050

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I had to look some of it up, we haven't lived there in over a decade so my memory for the deets was fuzzy but essentially many American names for people, places, and so on have the added complication of having French, Spanish, and Native American languages in the area, not to mention English. When we were there, some folks were very nasty to Native peoples, while others were not.

Ho-Chunk (has several spellings-this is the most common) had no written language but this name, their own, means "Big Voice." Their neighbors, the Algonquin, called them Winnebago-which means "smelly water." Some Ho Chunk have said it was their other neighbors, the Sac/Fox that gave them that name. To our modern sensibilities, this is derogatory, but some Ho-Chunk do not view it that way as the Ho-Chunk Nation live(d) near Lake Winnebago and other river water ways and in the summer it doesn't smell great. Tbh, we lived not too far from the lakes in Madison and near the bay it would often smell a little ripe. Others objected to the name (the federal government agents used the Winnebago name and until the reform in the 1990s, that is how they were referred) and I think that came about some time before we lived there. It was still a topic of conversation while we were there, anyway. They used to live in more of southern Wisconsin but the lead mining started to take off near Platteville, etc in the 1800s sometime and so the govt 'relocated' them through some pretty crappy treaties until they were mostly in the northern areas to serve as a buffer between the Lakota and the Ojibwe (Chippewa). In the small world department, a soccer team mate of my son's here in Texas is Lakota and the family used to live in northern Wisconsin because his father had Ho-Chunk relatives but they both joined the military as they hoped to have better employment opportunities.

When we lived there, there were leaders in the Baraboo area that were active in trying to get their concerns heard. The numbers of many recognized tribes are so small in some states that it is easy to be overshadowed. Some tribes are not recognized which is even more difficult.

Some tribes still go by Winnebago, in Nebraska there are Winnebago.

 

I think that is mostly correct, I didn't go looking for the definitive history as that area has a rich and diverse history that can take quite awhile to explore. Mostly just a refresher from what I recall during our days in the Badger state.

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13,253

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38 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Sorry for the derail. I was not a history major, but I do enjoy reading about various topics at the 101 level and when we moved to the Dairyland I tried to soak up a little info about our surroundings.

Back to the race:

 

Woof those 5x contribution matches to the Trump campaign don't seem to be helping much.

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