2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Larry T. Spider 1741]

White, suburban, former republican here. There are some that are just anti-trump and will go back. Most of us will never pull the R lever again though. The shift in the burbs actually began before trump, he just accelerated it.

When I moved to Wilco 10 years ago, it was bright red. My neighborhood polling place was almost as 50/50 as you could get in 2016. I would be shocked if Biden doesn’t win by 20+ points this time. 

[Ghost of LL 15492]

1 minute ago, Larry T. Spider said:

White, suburban, former republican here. There are some that are just anti-trump and will go back. Most of us will never pull the R lever again though. The shift in the burbs actually began before trump, he just accelerated it.

When I moved to Wilco 10 years ago, it was bright red. My neighborhood polling place was almost as 50/50 as you could get in 2016. I would be shocked if Biden doesn’t win by 20+ points this time. 

And let's not overlook the fact that the suburbs aren't as white as they used to be.  It is fair to observe that a lot of the minorities that are in those suburbs--e.g., East and South Asians--often used to vote like white suburbanites.  But then the Trumpublicans made clear that they hate all non-white people, not just the black and Hispanic ones.  That has caused a pretty major shift, which is seen in Fort Bend County, among other places.

[Larry T. Spider 1741]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

And let's not overlook the fact that the suburbs aren't as white as they used to be.  It is fair to observe that a lot of the minorities that are in those suburbs--e.g., East and South Asians--often used to vote like white suburbanites.  But then the Trumpublicans made clear that they hate all non-white people, not just the black and Hispanic ones.  That has caused a pretty major shift, which is seen in Fort Bend County, among other places.

Wilco is 58% white. And remember, half of them are suburban women who are leaving the Republican Party.

[LurkingHorn 1049]

11 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

White, suburban, former republican here. There are some that are just anti-trump and will go back. Most of us will never pull the R lever again though. The shift in the burbs actually began before trump, he just accelerated it.

When I moved to Wilco 10 years ago, it was bright red. My neighborhood polling place was almost as 50/50 as you could get in 2016. I would be shocked if Biden doesn’t win by 20+ points this time. 

I fit the same description though I'm not willing to say I'll never vote R again. I really hope this is a landslide for Ds and this shake the Rs to the point they finally take a hard look in the mirror. 

I also agree on a Biden blowout coming--at least in my congressional district. I don't see how Trump gets even close to the same amount of votes he got last time. My conservative SIL and her husband voted for him in 2016 and have already come out and said they're voting Biden. Anecdotal but I have to imagine that is not going to be uncommon. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

17 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

White, suburban, former republican here. There are some that are just anti-trump and will go back. Most of us will never pull the R lever again though. The shift in the burbs actually began before trump, he just accelerated it.

When I moved to Wilco 10 years ago, it was bright red. My neighborhood polling place was almost as 50/50 as you could get in 2016. I would be shocked if Biden doesn’t win by 20+ points this time. 

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, @Brisketexan and @Ghost of LL changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that a combination of your mechanic and other drivers were the problem. What was the moment when the light came on?
 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, @Brisketexan and @Ghost of LL changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that a combination of your mechanic and other drivers were the problem. What was the moment when the light came on?
 

70% top marginal tax rates aren't cool, either, and you can coast on getting rid of that for a long time.

[Larry T. Spider 1741]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, @Brisketexan and @Ghost of LL changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that your mechanic was the problem
 

For me, a lot of it was just growing up and getting enough real world experience to know that everything that I was sold was a lie. That’s why I can say with conviction that I would never go back. Same for my wife.

The other factors include mostly Texas GOP misdeeds. I work in public education. Getting kicked in the dick repeatedly sucks. Who knew? For me the shift didn’t happen because of trump, it was around the end of Perry’s term as governor.

[6th Street 6357]

Interesting anecdotes about TX suburbs. If that trend holds up in Midwest states, it should be enough to drive turnout higher and subsequently swing the EV in Joe's favor. I mean that's exactly what happened in the 2018 midterms.

[Brisketexan 104628]

30 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, @Brisketexan and @Ghost of LL changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that a combination of your mechanic and other drivers were the problem. What was the moment when the light came on?
 

A good bit of what Larry says below.

23 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

For me, a lot of it was just growing up and getting enough real world experience to know that everything that I was sold was a lie. That’s why I can say with conviction that I would never go back. Same for my wife.

The other factors include mostly Texas GOP misdeeds. I work in public education. Getting kicked in the dick repeatedly sucks. Who knew? For me the shift didn’t happen because of trump, it was around the end of Perry’s term as governor.

More than anything, it was the complete abandonment of the "appeal," and actually selling the shittiness of the product.  To go with your metaphor, it's when they shifted from telling us that cars should be reliable and high-performing, and the VW does that....to telling us that cars are SUPPOSED to be shitty, and anyone who demands a functioning car that isn't always in the shop is a socialist anti-American.  I mean, jaw-dropping shit -- are you REALLY yelling at us, with a straight face, that we're SUPPOSED to lose use of our car for weeks at a time and spend $500 a month on repairs?  I don't know, maybe the threshold was the absolute insult to our collective intelligence.

I turned from the GOP well before Trump.  It was driven by the purposeful anti-intellectualism of the GOP broadly, and the shameless and open embrace of hate -- against a black president, against gay people, what have you.  I mean, there's more to it -- thinking the concept of trickle-down makes sense, but then watching it tried over and over and failing each time....I'm not fucking stupid.  I may (foolishly) think that plywood wings will help me fly, but after the second or third time I smash my face into the ground, I'm smart enough to realize that the plywood wing plan is utter bullshit.  And again, there's more, but seeing the Party of Trump as the culmination of anti-intellectualism, anti-science, anti-fact, and being politics based ENTIRELY on division (it's not what Trumpism stands for -- it's who he targets, and how much of a bully he is, that inspires his supporters) seals my opposition to the GOP, literally, in blood.

[thrillhammer 683]

31 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

 

I also agree on a Biden blowout coming--at least in my congressional district. I don't see how Trump gets even close to the same amount of votes he got last time. My conservative SIL and her husband voted for him in 2016 and have already come out and said they're voting Biden. Anecdotal but I have to imagine that is not going to be uncommon. 

i thought there was a hillary blowout coming so will remain on the edge of my seat until 11/4.  it would be nice to see this nightmare come to an end.  what would help is if there were some closet disgruntled republicans that are secretly as fed up with this administration as the dems are.  they sure as hell aren't speaking out if they exist.   i hope they're out there and are just afraid to speak out.  

as anti-pc as conservatives have always been, teasing and poking fun of those that abide by the pc norms, they are the kings of party loyalty and fear of speaking their mind or having an individual thought.  if you speak out against the don he comes for you on twitter, or signs some executive order that fucks you over.  i think the entire republican party is in goose step with him.   

[kevwun 15653]

9 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Interesting anecdotes about TX suburbs. If that trend holds up in Midwest states, it should be enough to drive turnout higher and subsequently swing the EV in Joe's favor. I mean that's exactly what happened in the 2018 midterms.

It's an even bigger problem in federal and state legislature races because the Republican gerrymanders in almost every red state depends on the suburbs voting strongly Republican.  It's the linchpin to the entire map because it's how they dilute the urban area votes. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by kevwun

[Biff Tannen 45497]

7 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

i thought there was a hillary blowout coming so will remain on the edge of my seat until 11/4.  it would be nice to see this nightmare come to an end

Same here.  I was also thinking, if this thing ramps up again in the fall/winter and we oust the dotard, I absolutely would not put it past the admin and Rs to sabotage the response to the second wave during the transition from Nov-Jan so they can blame Dems again.

[G650 14107]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, @Brisketexan and @Ghost of LL changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that a combination of your mechanic and other drivers were the problem. What was the moment when the light came on?
 

I can't speak for them, but I can tell you that your analogy is way off. The GOP has changed in very meaningful ways. The reason very a lot of very left people can't see that is the things that are the same as 25 years ago are particularly offensive to very left people. For me, the end of internationalism is the biggest, followed closely by how they value/perceive education. I am 100% globalist or whatever the fuck you want to call it these days. I want American hegemony, full stop. That is a sea change that is unforgivable in my eyes. We are fucking the world's bitch right now. I can't understate how big this is. And the education thing is pretty big too. Republicans used to be high achievers. John Warner is my all time numbero uno politician. Look at his life record compared to these mouth breathing cretins that are in Congress now. It's abhorrent.

 

The other side of this is I have certainly changed my opinion on some things too. I fully believe that to support a vibrant society, our social safety net needs serious underpinning. I want universal healthcare. I support UBI. So that plays a factor with me and countless others too.

[G650 14107]

32 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It was driven by the purposeful anti-intellectualism of the GOP broadly

Yessir

[Ghost of LL 15492]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, @Brisketexan and @Ghost of LL changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that a combination of your mechanic and other drivers were the problem. What was the moment when the light came on?
 

I think you're assuming that there was a light switch, when it was really more of an evolution.  But perhaps it was like a bankruptcy--really slow at first, and then all at once.

I mean, if you want to go back to the old, old, old board, you'll see that I used to be very pro-death penalty.  But then I went to law school.  I started defending clients.  I learned a few things about people and about our criminal-justice system.  And nobody who has that type of experience has any business being pro-death penalty.

And then to reiterate Brisket's point, some time around the Great Recession, I fell very much out of love with trickle-down.  I mean, it really does look good on paper.  Intellectually, I see why it should work.  Actually, I still really thing it should work.  I don't really understand why it doesn't.  But I know it doesn't because I've seen it fail time and time again.

Oops.

So by 2008, I wasn't a very good Republican.  I didn't vote for McCain.  I don't think I've ever voted for either Cornyn or Cruz.  I long ago started voting a straight-ticket Democrat ballot on judicial races.  And for my state rep, I probably started voting for the Democratic candidate around 2008 or 2010.

And then by the 2015 legislative session, I noted to Brisket that I missed Rick Perry.  Perry wasn't a good governor.  I really hated him.  I voted against him every damned time he ran.  He was incompetent.  He was corrupt.  But damn it--he wasn't mean.  Greg Abbott is mean.  And he's all of those other things that Rick Perry was.  But also he's mean about it.  Fuck him.

But even so, I still voted for some Republican candidates up until 2016.  That was when I figured out that the Republican Party wasn't a conservative party with a racist fringe, it was a racist party with a conservative fringe.  And it abandoned everything that was ever conservative about it to appeal to the racist base.

[gmr548 16516]

And let's not overlook the fact that the suburbs aren't as white as they used to be.  It is fair to observe that a lot of the minorities that are in those suburbs--e.g., East and South Asians--often used to vote like white suburbanites.  But then the Trumpublicans made clear that they hate all non-white people, not just the black and Hispanic ones.  That has caused a pretty major shift, which is seen in Fort Bend County, among other places.

Yeah, I was going to amend my statement to account for this, as well as generational trends. What we traditionally think of as the suburban demographic - boomer/gen x white folk - will see a shift back to the GOP, I'm sure.

Suburbs are getting more diverse though. We've hit peak boomer, their numbers are only going to go down. Suburban voters will increasingly be millenials (lol jk we'll never be able to buy houses) and less white. That will likely keep suburbs at least purple.

[gmr548 16516]

I don't know what changed, honestly. I don't get why you, [mention=593]Brisketexan[/mention] and [mention=656]Ghost of LL[/mention] changed. I mean, I sort of do, but what the GOP has produced in terms of results hasn't really gotten worse in the last 25 years. Trump's just taken terrible government in new directions and added Worst Head of State in American History to the trophy case. 

I get what the appeal was supposed to be, but the product always sucked. It's like you kept buying Volkswagons for decades, thinking that they were actually really reliable and that a combination of your mechanic and other drivers were the problem. What was the moment when the light came on?
 

Trump was the diesel emissions scandal of politics?

[6th Street 6357]

54 minutes ago, kevwun said:

It's an even bigger problem in federal and state legislature races because the Republican gerrymanders in almost every red state depends on the suburbs voting strongly Republican.  It's the linchpin to the entire map because it's how they dilute the urban area votes. 

Agree 100% that educated folks in the burbs have turned against Trump and R's. Again, anecdotal but my voting district in the Chicago suburbs turned Blue in 2018, electing its first Democrat congressman since 1973. 

[Brisketexan 104628]

12 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Trump was the diesel emissions scandal of politics?

If we're going to go with the VW metaphor....it's as if VW came out and started proudly proclaiming "our best business was during the Nazi regime, and we want to go back to that!  Bring back prison camp slave labor!  Make VW great again!"

GOLL is dead-right -- it ain't a conservative party with a racist fringe, it's a racist party with a conservative fringe (and God, the contortions those guys will go through to continue to justify their affiliation with the party -- it's amazing to watch).

[tantric superman 4667]

"I honestly think racist party with a hard on for Trump." is more succinct and accurate.

I don't see any real, honest vestiges of a conservative approach.

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

1 hour ago, thrillhammer said:

i thought there was a hillary blowout coming so will remain on the edge of my seat until 11/4.  it would be nice to see this nightmare come to an end.  what would help is if there were some closet disgruntled republicans that are secretly as fed up with this administration as the dems are.  they sure as hell aren't speaking out if they exist.   i hope they're out there and are just afraid to speak out.  

as anti-pc as conservatives have always been, teasing and poking fun of those that abide by the pc norms, they are the kings of party loyalty and fear of speaking their mind or having an individual thought.  if you speak out against the don he comes for you on twitter, or signs some executive order that fucks you over.  i think the entire republican party is in goose step with him.   

Interesting you should say this. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's very possible that the nightmare doesn't start until 11/5, no matter who wins. I think that's when the burn it down guys could see their dreams really come spectacularly true. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

55 minutes ago, G650 said:

I can't speak for them, but I can tell you that your analogy is way off. The GOP has changed in very meaningful ways. The reason very a lot of very left people can't see that is the things that are the same as 25 years ago are particularly offensive to very left people. For me, the end of internationalism is the biggest, followed closely by how they value/perceive education. I am 100% globalist or whatever the fuck you want to call it these days. I want American hegemony, full stop. That is a sea change that is unforgivable in my eyes. We are fucking the world's bitch right now. I can't understate how big this is. And the education thing is pretty big too. Republicans used to be high achievers. John Warner is my all time numbero uno politician. Look at his life record compared to these mouth breathing cretins that are in Congress now. It's abhorrent.

 

The other side of this is I have certainly changed my opinion on some things too. I fully believe that to support a vibrant society, our social safety net needs serious underpinning. I want universal healthcare. I support UBI. So that plays a factor with me and countless others too.

Ok, fair enough, and I agree with the things you want (except I'd prefer a jobs guarantee to UBI), but indulge me. I'm pretty much in line with a Rockefeller Republican or Moynihan Democrat, so I'm pretty far from "very left". What's interesting to me is not the change to the pitch but that nothing the GOP has sold at the national level since Reagan has worked.  Bush I is a great example. Republicans abandoned him not for failing but precisely because of successful policies on the economy and on foreign policy. 

[gmr548 16516]

Interesting you should say this. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's very possible that the nightmare doesn't start until 11/5, no matter who wins. I think that's when the burn it down guys could see their dreams really come spectacularly true. 

Yeah this has crossed my mind. It's really hard to imagine an orderly transition if Trump loses. He'll have to be dragged out kicking and screaming, and his loyal subjects will be angry. Conversely, I don't even know what I'll do if he wins. I do know that we'll complete the transition to banana republic with four more years.

[G650 14107]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

Ok, fair enough, and I agree with the things you want (except I'd prefer a jobs guarantee to UBI), but indulge me. I'm pretty much in line with a Rockefeller Republican or Moynihan Democrat, so I'm pretty far from "very left". What's interesting to me is not the change to the pitch but that nothing the GOP has sold at the national level since Reagan has worked.  Bush I is a great example. Republicans abandoned him not for failing but precisely because of successful policies on the economy and on foreign policy. 

Oh, I wasn't including you in the very left bucket, I think I have a feel for your general leanings. Obviously responding to your post I was a little imprecise there.  I'm basically what used to be Rockefeller R at this point, whereas I was more fiscally conservative before.

 

I mean, I think Bush I was very successful policy wise if not with the voters, and Clinton basically reaped the reward economically. Reagan restarted the economy with deficits, and Bush dovetailed it while reigning it in. Of course he said "read my lips" and that was that. Fwiw, Clinton didn't upset the apple cart, so I think he did a decent job too, my biggest complaints with him was that he really did a number on the intelligence community, though in hindsight, compared to now he was practically a saint. Then you get to Bush II and obviously his pitch worked twice. His policy outcomes were shit, but I wouldn't really ascribe that to GOP policy writ large but inept execution and bringing looney exiles like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld in. Dumb wars, banking excesses, etc... Basically turn it up to 11 and see what happens kind of stuff. But from both a pitch and policy perspective, Bush II was radically different in several notable ways, from compassionate conservatism and aggressive courting of the Hispanic vote to spending more money on AIDS in Africa than every previous admin put together. Basically the opposite of now.

[Horn Dogg 3808]

2 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

For me, a lot of it was just growing up and getting enough real world experience to know that everything that I was sold was a lie. That’s why I can say with conviction that I would never go back. Same for my wife.

The other factors include mostly Texas GOP misdeeds. I work in public education. Getting kicked in the dick repeatedly sucks. Who knew? For me the shift didn’t happen because of trump, it was around the end of Perry’s term as governor.

For me, I started to veer away from being a republican when W started the Iraq war,  I have been more of an independent ever since and I try to vote for the candidate that I think is best qualified.  While I still consider myself an independent, this year I’m voting straight democrat no matter who is on the ballot for the following 2 reasons.

1. Get rid of Trump

2. Punish the Republican Party for becoming the Trump party and letting that stupid corrupt fat motherfucker stay in office

I guess I’m not really voting FOR anyone, more voting AGAINST the current shitshow and doing it with a vengeance.  I’m angry about what this current Republican Party has allowed America to become and I’m going to do all I can to change it!

 

[Hank Kingsley 20707]

2 hours ago, thrillhammer said:

i thought there was a hillary blowout coming so will remain on the edge of my seat until 11/4. 

This is fair. 

The last few months of Hillary's campaign were a disaster. "I'm with her", neglecting the midwest, and basically just playing defense and focusing on anti-Trump ads. By election day it was clear that Trump had gained significantly on Clinton, even though the result was still a surprise. 

And I'm gonna be annoying as fuck on here regarding Biden's shitty campaign and team at this particular moment.  A decisive and clear victory over Trump is easily attainable with the right staff and campaign operation. Starting to get nervous that there is no one close to Joe that will clean house or at least completely change their strategy moving forward. Something to keep an eye on. 

 

[henrygandorf 29177]

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

Agree 100% that educated folks in the burbs have turned against Trump and R's. Again, anecdotal but my voting district in the Chicago suburbs turned Blue in 2018, electing its first Democrat congressman since 1973. 

democratic congressman.

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by henrygandorf

[Hank Kingsley 20707]

 

[kevwun 15653]

Stop it or you're going to start giving me hope that Trump has finally stumbled upon his Waterloo.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

Just got a Biden campaign email asking for suggestions.  I sent them our concerns about their digital presence, or lack thereof.  I'm sure his current staff of do-nothings will take it to heart.

[Horn Dogg 3808]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Just got a Biden campaign email asking for suggestions.  I sent them our concerns about their digital presence, or lack thereof.  I'm sure his current staff of do-nothings will take it to heart.

Yeah, it’s hard to tell what the hell he is doing right now.  Maybe just sitting back and letting Trump destroy himself for a little while?

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

28 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 

If it's not the olds and its not the yoots, who's left?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Here's the answer.  Just unbelievable.

 

2. If the election for president were being held today, and the candidates were Joe Biden the Democrat and Donald Trump the Republican, for whom would you vote?

                                                               WHITE........
                                                               4 YR COLL DEG
                     Tot    Rep    Dem    Ind    Men    Wom    Yes    No
 
Biden                46%     7%    91%    44%    41%    51%    51%    35%
Trump                42     89      4     37     47     38     40     58
SMONE ELSE(VOL)       3      -      1      5      3      2      2      2
WLDN'T VOTE(VOL)      2      -      -      5      3      2      -      2
DK/NA                 7      3      4      9      6      7      6      3
 
                     AGE IN YRS..............    WHITE.....
                     18-34  35-49  50-64  65+    Men    Wom    Wht    Blk    Hsp
 
Biden                50%    40%    43%    52%    36%    45%    40%    73%    46%
Trump                31     44     48     42     57     47     52      8     38
SMONE ELSE(VOL)       8      2      2      1      3      2      2      5      3
WLDN'T VOTE(VOL)      4      4      1      1      2      1      1      1      5
DK/NA                 8     10      6      5      3      5      4     12      8
 

[Ghost of LL 15492]

32 minutes ago, Horn Dogg said:

Yeah, it’s hard to tell what the hell he is doing right now.  Maybe just sitting back and letting Trump destroy himself for a little while?

I really don't think that's a bad strategy right now.  Sit back.  Raise money.  Stay somewhat visible, but not so visible that you get any of the blame for the current shitshow.  And watch your opponent careen off a cliff.

[Aqua Buddha 14521]

 

[henrygandorf 29177]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

yes.  this is the stuff.  now do georgia and texas.

[kevwun 15653]

I guess grandma and grandpa don't like it suggested that they should willingly die for the economy. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

47 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just got a Biden campaign email asking for suggestions.  I sent them our concerns about their digital presence, or lack thereof.  I'm sure his current staff of do-nothings will take it to heart.

maybe i've watched too much west wing (i definitely have) but i was always under the impression that when these races get condensed, the last man standing should be getting the "all-star team".  every great mind in the party, every operative the dnc knows, every hotshot online/editor type - it's all hands on deck.  every staffer worth a shit from every campaign that lost should be knocking down the door to get involved.  so either they're not, or someone on the biden campaign is sending the message that "we got this".  i'm just assuming it's the latter.

that said, we are in an unusual period of history where nobody can really be campaigning in a traditional sense.  we're also witnessing in real-time trump holding daily "briefings" that are exposing him as the fucking imbecile we already knew him to be.  so yeah, i guess maybe we play rope-a-dope until it's time to move to the next phase.  i really hope it comes out in polling later that the daily rallies were a primary reason people decided not to vote for him.  it would be especially tasty because he thinks it's helping. 

some people get so far behind in the race they actually think they're leading. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

4 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I guess grandma and grandpa don't like it suggested that they should willingly die for the economy. 

or they have close friends and relatives that already have.

[kevwun 15653]

Trump makes an ass of himself every day on national television.  I think Biden staying out of the limelight right now is the right move.  Nothing Biden does will work as well as just letting Trump stumble from one fuck up to the next.  Biden isn't getting any votes from impassioned speeches or clever ads.  He got them in the primary for not being Bernie Sanders and he's going to get them in November because he's not Donald Trump.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

1 minute ago, kevwun said:

  Biden isn't getting any votes from impassioned speeches or clever ads.  He got them in the primary for not being Bernie Sanders and he's going to get them in November because he's not Donald Trump.

This is actually a good point.  We all know Biden doesn't really bring a ton to the table besides an idea of returning to saner times.  Maybe that's the play.  Just let the lunatic out front do his lunatic shit and in October just point and be like, "really?  is that what we want?  I won't do that."

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, kevwun said:

Trump makes an ass of himself every day on national television.  I think Biden staying out of the limelight right now is the right move.  Nothing Biden does will work as well as just letting Trump stumble from one fuck up to the next.  Biden isn't getting any votes from impassioned speeches or clever ads.  He got them in the primary for not being Bernie Sanders and he's going to get them in November because he's not Donald Trump.

So you're saying that the Biden vote was an anti-Bernie vote?

That smells like someone making electoral mountains out of social media molehills.

[UpperWestside 6136]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

democratic congressman.

 

 

 

I always found it annoying when I would hear Limbaugh say Democrat Party.

[gmr548 16516]

yes.  this is the stuff.  now do georgia and texas.

Florida polls : Democrats :: spring games : aggy

[Horn Dogg 3808]

33 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I really don't think that's a bad strategy right now.  Sit back.  Raise money.  Stay somewhat visible, but not so visible that you get any of the blame for the current shitshow.  And watch your opponent careen off a cliff.

I think you are right.  If he were out there being loud right now, it could be viewed as him ignoring the public health crisis and and only worrying about his election chances.  Trump is doing a great job of fucking everything up as much as humanly possible, so you wait until after the car is way off the cliff and at the bottom of the ravine, which happens to be much closer to Election Day than we are now.  At that point he can go at him with Obama by his side and finish him off while he’s already down.  It would be glorious to watch if it went down that way.  

[Ghost of LL 15492]

11 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Trump makes an ass of himself every day on national television.  I think Biden staying out of the limelight right now is the right move.  Nothing Biden does will work as well as just letting Trump stumble from one fuck up to the next.  Biden isn't getting any votes from impassioned speeches or clever ads.  He got them in the primary for not being Bernie Sanders and he's going to get them in November because he's not Donald Trump.

It's not just him making an ass of himself.  It's that he has made himself the central character in this drama.

When you say that you have "absolute authority" and promise "I alone can fix it," shit that happens on your watch is necessarily your fault (irrespective of whether it really is or not).  That's the downside of being an autocrat.

So the trick for an autocrat is to find scapegoats.  And you see Trump trying to do that by telling governors that they make the call.

But then--and this is the critical step for a successful autocrat--you have to fucking disappear.  Look at Xi and Putin.  I mean, you can look for them.  But you won't find them.  They're scarce as shit.  They've set up their local officials to be the blame-takers on this.  And they'll only ride back in once there is credit to be taken for a recovery.

But Trump?  His psychological pathology prevents him from doing that.  He can't step out of the spotlight for a single minute.  So all of his efforts to set up other blame-takers are pointless, because he always has to make sure that he is the central character in the national narrative.  And since this narrative is pretty fucking shitty, he's always going to get the majority of the blame no matter what Joe Biden says or does.

[Ghost of LL 15492]

7 minutes ago, Horn Dogg said:

I think you are right.  If he were out there being loud right now, it could be viewed as him ignoring the public health crisis and and only worrying about his election chances.  Trump is doing a great job of fucking everything up as much as humanly possible, so you wait until after the car is way off the cliff and at the bottom of the ravine, which happens to be much closer to Election Day than we are now.  At that point he can go at him with Obama by his side and finish him off while he’s already down.  It would be glorious to watch if it went down that way.  

[Hank Kingsley 20707]

Biden can stay out of the limelight right now. That's fine.

But in the meantime, his campaign should be staffing up and his digital operation needs to strengthen significantly. Neither is happening. And he's not raising that much money, which has been in issue for his campaign the entire primary. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Horn Dogg 3808]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's not just him making an ass of himself.  It's that he has made himself the central character in this drama.

When you say that you have "absolute authority" and promise "I alone can fix it," shit that happens on your watch is necessarily your fault (irrespective of whether it really is or not).  That's the downside of being an autocrat.

So the trick for an autocrat is to find scapegoats.  And you see Trump trying to do that by telling governors that they make the call.

But then--and this is the critical step for a successful autocrat--you have to fucking disappear.  Look at Xi and Putin.  I mean, you can look for them.  But you won't find them.  They're scarce as shit.  They've set up their local officials to be the blame-takers on this.  And they'll only ride back in once there is credit to be taken for a recovery.

But Trump?  His psychological pathology prevents him from doing that.  He can't step out of the spotlight for a single minute.  So all of his efforts to set up other blame-takers are pointless, because he always has to make sure that he is the central character in the national narrative.  And since this narrative is pretty fucking shitty, he's always going to get the majority of the blame no matter what Joe Biden says or does.

I know this analogy is a stretch, but his hankering for the spotlight reminds me of how Lance Armstrong went down.  If Lance had just  sat back and kept his mouth shut he would still have his 7 TdF titles and all of his endorsements.  But no, he had to keep making a big deal out of himself and picked fights with too many people.