2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[6th Street 6607]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There is a certain segment of #Resistance Dems that seem overly in love with The Lincoln Project. These people are almost as excited to see Leftist candidates fail as they are with Republicans. 

If there was an AOC type nominee in ‘24 or ‘28, some of these Resisters/Never Berners might cross the aisle with a more palatable R candidate. It’s something to keep an eye on. 

If there was an AOC type candidate, a goos number of us here would probably join them. She's an idiot of the highest order. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33954]

1 minute ago, 6th Street said:

If there was an AOC type candidate, a goos number of us here would probably join them. She's an idiot of the highest order. 

Lol, OK Ken

[Superhero 8896]

A Pete / Yang 20204 ticket would get my vote.

[Mach 1 1677]

4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Yeah I’m getting sick of the cock sucking of the Lincoln Project.

Go back and look at Rick Wilson’s tweets before he found religion - he was a odious race baiting culture war shitbag. Research what he did to Max Cleland.

The Steve guy (last name escapes me at the moment) was McCain’s campaign manager who foisted Sarah Fucking Palin on us.

They’re good for what we need right now - amoral shit slingers who will go lower than dirt to shade and attack but the almost deification of these goons and the whitewashing of their past actions is sickening.

They may have lept out of the house before it fully engulfed but those assholes were laid up in that house playing with lighter fluid and matches for decades.

I’ll applaud their mean ads and be happy they’ve turned their lack of moral compass against Trump but they will never get any of my money and come November 4, 2020 they can fuck right off.

I don't give a shit about their past. I give a shit about their now. They're getting my money,

After November I'll reconsider.

[Red Five 41090]

A Pete / Yang 20204 ticket would get my vote.

They’re young but not that young.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

Csb/ Max Cleland and I are fraternity brothers from Florida.  One of the most impressive people I have ever met in my life.  

All that to say, I'm wondering exactly what impact Lincoln Project is having on others.  Are we who do not like Trump seeing what we want to see?  Is it getting to vulnerable Trump supporters who may be able to be turned?  Is it just motivating Biden folks?  What's the play?  

Seems to me that their main value is just trolling dotard. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don't give a shit about their past. I give a shit about their now. They're getting my money,
After November I'll reconsider.

Their past is a big part of the reason why our present is so horrible.

And I’ll not be letting them off the hook because they’ve found a new more palatable angle to make some cash.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5139]

1 hour ago, Superhero said:

A Pete / Yang 20204 ticket would get my vote.

I don’t think either of them will be alive when 20204 rolls around. 

[Superhero 8896]

2 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I don’t think either of them will be alive when 20204 rolls around. 

20204, 20214. Whatever it takes. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Their past is a big part of the reason why our present is so horrible.

And I’ll not be letting them off the hook because they’ve found a new more palatable angle to make some cash.

This was a pretty good read.  Uses the Frankenstein’s monster analogy. The guys behind the Lincoln project were the ones assembling the monster on the table and now that a bolt of lightning named Trump has struck they’re scrambling to join the mob to put down their own creation.

 

  

Edited June 30, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Pancho 45527]

don yunior was on fox this morning saying the same thing that people are too scared to tell pollsters they are actually voting trump

n

[Aqua Buddha 14660]

9 hours ago, Superhero said:

A Pete / Yang 20204 ticket would get my vote.

They'd have to unseat incumbent President Kamala Harris.

[thrillhammer 684]

13 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Yeah I’m getting sick of the cock sucking of the Lincoln Project.

Go back and look at Rick Wilson’s tweets before he found religion - he was a odious race baiting culture war shitbag. Research what he did to Max Cleland.

The Steve guy (last name escapes me at the moment) was McCain’s campaign manager who foisted Sarah Fucking Palin on us.

They’re good for what we need right now - amoral shit slingers who will go lower than dirt to shade and attack but the almost deification of these goons and the whitewashing of their past actions is sickening.

They may have lept out of the house before it fully engulfed but those assholes were laid up in that house playing with lighter fluid and matches for decades.

I’ll applaud their mean ads and be happy they’ve turned their lack of moral compass against Trump but they will never get any of my money and come November 4, 2020 they can fuck right off.

i get you, but all along its just been us dems bitching.  sounds like spilled milk/sore losers ring to it.  what we've always needed is the republicans to see what we're seeing - the destruction of the constitution, the concentration of executive power, the lies, etc, but they've always stayed loyal to him.  we need more republicans to speak out against him, to take a stand for america, and say that trump has made it worse.  

[Huckleberry 33601]

51 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This was a pretty good read.  Uses the Frankenstein’s monster analogy. The guys behind the Lincoln project were the ones assembling the monster on the table and now that a bolt of lightning named Trump has struck they’re scrambling to join the mob to put down their own creation.

 

  

Democrats talking to Progressives: "Who cares if the policies aren't what you want?!?!? The important thing is to get this administration out of Washington!!!"

Democrats talking to Never Trump Republicans: "Trump is just one man, fuck you!!! Policies are what matter, not just getting one man out of office!!!"

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It’s almost as if democrats have an identity crisis. 

[Guest Lobo]

Well drink up and get the fuck over it like the rest of us.  I gotta add “I hope my Democrat friends can work through their whittle rough patch this year?” to my terrifying 2020 heap of shit?  

[SilasCoade 2622]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s almost as if democrats have an identity crisis. 

It's almost as if a two-party system is inherently flawed and only marginally different from a single-party system. The two-party system exists strictly to maintain power in the hands of those with power while providing Us vs Them pablum to distract the masses.

[Biff Tannen 45778]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This was a pretty good read.  Uses the Frankenstein’s monster analogy. The guys behind the Lincoln project were the ones assembling the monster on the table and now that a bolt of lightning named Trump has struck they’re scrambling to join the mob to put down their own creation.

 

  

Could have just changed it to "Beware Republicans".

[SubliminalHorn 6842]

11 minutes ago, Llogg said:

It's almost as if a two-party system is inherently flawed and only marginally different from a single-party system. The two-party system exists strictly to maintain power in the hands of those with power while providing Us vs Them pablum to distract the masses.

We have a lot of reforms to implement. Ranked choice voting needs to happen across the country.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

12 minutes ago, Llogg said:

It's almost as if a two-party system is inherently flawed and only marginally different from a single-party system. The two-party system exists strictly to maintain power in the hands of those with power while providing Us vs Them pablum to distract the masses.

You would get the same dynamic in a multiparty system.  Look at the UK. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20894]

 

[Bateshorn 9964]

44 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Democrats talking to Progressives: "Who cares if the policies aren't what you want?!?!? The important thing is to get this administration out of Washington!!!"

Democrats talking to Never Trump Republicans: "Trump is just one man, fuck you!!! Policies are what matter, not just getting one man out of office!!!"

I feel like just about every  Democrat on this page is actually saying to Never Trumpers:

”Good Shit!  Pour it on the son of a bitch. Also, this alliance is day to day after Nov. 4.”

Nobody has any illusions that Rick Wilson, et al, aren’t going to immediately turn around an attack the Biden administration and Democrats before the 2022 election. They hate Trump, not conservatism.  For example, they’ll be banging the Iran war drum before we get to the Summer Solstice.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I think what Huck is saying is a lot of democrats want to have it both ways.  They want to beat Trump but they don’t want to gamble on advancing their ideas to do it.
 

It’s kinda like repealing and replacing Obamacare with no plan for the replacement part.   Just a platform of destruction to victory.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I feel like just about everybody Democrat on this page is actually saying to Never Trumpers:

”Good Shit!  Pour it on the son of a bitch. Also, this alliance is day to day after Nov. 4.”

Nobody has any illusions that Rick Wilson, et al, aren’t going to immediately turn around an attack the Biden administration and Democrats before the 2022 election. They hate Trump, not conservatism.  For example, they’ll be banging the Iran war drum before we get to the Summer Solstice.

Yep they'd be all up in Biden's ass on day 1. And that's perfectly fine. It means Biden won. We'll work on that next problem once we get this much bigger problem solved. Hopefully the Dems absorb some of their marketing tactics during this uneasy alliance.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

don yunior was on fox this morning saying the same thing that people are too scared to tell pollsters they are actually voting trump

n

Think about what that says for a minute.  While the notion of too embarrassed to admit voting for Trump has some intuitive appeal, that you wouldn't admit it to an anonymous pollster because you apparently acknowledge what a vile human he is, but are voting for him anyway because reasons?

I'm not sure that really holds up.  I can see not wanting to admit it to your friends and family or the public at large.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Fudge Nuggets 19285]

19 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I feel like just about every  Democrat on this page is actually saying to Never Trumpers:

”Good Shit!  Pour it on the son of a bitch. Also, this alliance is day to day after Nov. 4.”

Nobody has any illusions that Rick Wilson, et al, aren’t going to immediately turn around an attack the Biden administration and Democrats before the 2022 election. They hate Trump, not conservatism.  For example, they’ll be banging the Iran war drum before we get to the Summer Solstice.

Summer Solstice done already happened my dude. 

[Snake Diggity 4630]

The GOP and conservatives potentially have a very important role.  There is a heavy need for the voters/representatives who rein in progressivism by asking questions like “how are we going to pay for that” and “what’s the real cost”.  I am not old enough or studied enough to know if that was ever the reality of how the GOP served (I suspect this was the case during the Eisenhower administration), but it doesn’t appear to have been the case since at least 2000.  Sadly, over at least the last 20 years, the GOP slid from conservatism to regression.  People today calling themselves conservatives are in reality regressives; they’re not ensuring progress is made responsibly and with accountability, they’re actively working to take society backwards.  Embracing Trump was not only the death blow to their credibility as the party of family values and fiscal responsibility, it shifted their focus completely away from the parts of their ideology that have value.
 

In the context of our 2 party system, I am hopeful the GOP can shift into the proper role I described above as stewards of responsibility and accountability who serve as a check on radical liberalism.  But the only way that can happen is if the demagoguery represented by Trump is irreversibly defeated.  The 2016 election was devastating, but it wasn’t the end of the story.  In my opinion, a Trump Re-election would definitely mean the end of the GOP as anything other than the party of fascism, but quite possibly could mean the end of progress in our country.

[SubliminalHorn 6842]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Summer Solstice done already happened my dude. 

I'm sure he means next summer, you silly billy

[SubliminalHorn 6842]

1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

 

In the context of our 2 party system, I am hopeful the GOP can shift into the proper role I described above as stewards of responsibility and accountability 

Bless your heart

[Bozo_Casanova 26688]

1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

The GOP and conservatives potentially have a very important role.  There is a heavy need for the voters/representatives who rein in progressivism by asking questions like “how are we going to pay for that” and “what’s the real cost”.  I am not old enough or studied enough to know if that was ever the reality of how the GOP served (I suspect this was the case during the Eisenhower administration), but it doesn’t appear to have been the case since at least 2000.  

That was the first two years of the George HW Bush administration. Republicans never forgave him for governing well, and they never governed that way again. 

[Guest Lobo]

39 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

We have a lot of reforms to implement. Ranked choice voting needs to happen across the country.

While I'd like this, you think we have a hard time NOW getting voter turnout?  Wait until you tell the electorate, there's gonna be reading AND maths in order to vote.  We'll drop from 50-60 to 30-40% turnout over night.  

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

9 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

In the context of our 2 party system, I am hopeful the GOP can shift into the proper role I described above as stewards of responsibility and accountability 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Hank Kingsley

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

 

[Bateshorn 9964]

17 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Summer Solstice done already happened my dude. 

2021.

[SubliminalHorn 6842]

11 minutes ago, Lobo said:

While I'd like this, you think we have a hard time NOW getting voter turnout?  Wait until you tell the electorate, there's gonna be reading AND maths in order to vote.  We'll drop from 50-60 to 30-40% turnout over night.  

Eh I don't know if I agree with that. I think the main reason people don't vote is that they have no party they identify with. They feel disillusioned at the process thinking their vote doesn't matter, and usually in a state like Texas, it really doesn't. Although ranked choice would take some time to get used to, I think it would allow people to feel more heard and involved in the process. Maybe you're right, but reform is badly needed in this country. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Embracing Trump was not only the death blow to their credibility as the party of family values and fiscal responsibility, it shifted their focus completely away from the parts of their ideology that have value.

Conflating family values (in reality white Protestant values) with fiscal conservativism is the whole problem. Those two things have nothing to do with one another.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

all good news, although i'd point out that state-by-state polarization is inching upward every year, so the "up 8-9" seems like it portends to less than what "up 8-9" would mean in any previous year.  maybe they've already taken that into account with figuring the 89%, but maybe not.

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

This is pretty incredible. 

The fact that almost 28% of Republicans in a KENTUCKY county didn't have the heart to vote for Trump seem very ominous for him nationally. 

 

 

[Hank Kingsley 21136]

1 minute ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

all good news, although i'd point out that state-by-state polarization is inching upward every year, so the "up 8-9" seems like it portends to less than what "up 8-9" would mean in any previous year.  maybe they've already taken that into account with figuring the 89%, but maybe not.

They've taken it into account. 

 

[Bateshorn 9964]

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is pretty incredible. 

The fact that almost 28% of Republicans in a KENTUCKY county didn't have the heart to vote for Trump seem very ominous for him nationally. 

 

 

Well especially when you consider they actually made the effort to check "uncommitted" and send back the ballot.

[Bozo_Casanova 26688]

[Biff Tannen 45778]

11 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Eh I don't know if I agree with that. I think the main reason people don't vote is that they have no party they identify with. They feel disillusioned at the process thinking their vote doesn't matter, and usually in a state like Texas, it really doesn't. Although ranked choice would take some time to get used to, I think it would allow people to feel more heard and involved in the process. Maybe you're right, but reform is badly needed in this country. 

Ranked choice not only is the most logical way to do it, but also should have the added bonus of forcing candidates to have a more positive message, in order to not alienate voters that might put them 2nd.

[SubliminalHorn 6842]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Ranked choice not only is the most logical way to do it, but also should have the added bonus of forcing candidates to have a more positive message, in order to not alienate voters that might put them 2nd.

Absolutely. Hassan Minaj on his show Patriot Act on Netflix focused on this the other day. He showed an example (I can't remember where) of two opponents who were very positive toward each other. They even had a campaign ad TOGETHER encouraging people to get out and vote and rank them either 1 or 2. It was almost bizarre that they weren't hurling childish insults at each other. It was refreshing. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by SubliminalHorn
grammar

[Snake Diggity 4630]

11 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Conflating family values (in reality white Protestant values) with fiscal conservativism is the whole problem. Those two things have nothing to do with one another.

I agree they’re not related, other than that they’re both things that the GOP tried to lay claim to.  My point is that both claims lost all remaining credibility when they chose Trump as their leader.

[Zonahorn 8079]

Imagine being so fucking awful you make Missouri purple again

[SilasCoade 2622]

8 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I agree they’re not related, other than that they’re both things that the GOP tried to lay claim to.  My point is that both claims lost all remaining credibility when they chose Trump as their leader.

I didn't mean you were conflating the two. I meant the Republican strategy of conflating the two has enlarged their base to include groups that wouldn't look each other in the eye if they met on the street. Billionaires and Meth Belt trailer park denizens don't seem to have a lot of common ground unless you  make the latter believe that the former is super into the J-man.

[Bateshorn 9964]

15 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I agree they’re not related, other than that they’re both things that the GOP tried to lay claim to.  My point is that both claims lost all remaining credibility when they chose Trump as their leader.

Fun Fact: despite the GOP claim of economic acumen, every GOP President since Herbert Hoover has had a recession start on their watch (except Ford).

Democrats?  Roosevelt (who only had 1 in 4 terms), Truman (who caught 2, although the post war recession was probably the most artificial in modern history, still, the economy contracted), and Carter.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Snake Diggity 4630]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

Fun Fact: despite the GOP claim of economic acumen, every GOP President since Herbert Hoover has had a recession start on their watch.

Democrats?  Roosevelt (who only had 1 in 4 terms), Truman (who caught 2, although the post war recession was probably the most artificial in modern history, still, the economy contracted), and Carter.

That does not surprise me.  Only thing I’d note is that there’s a difference between fiscal responsibility and economic prosperity.  Not that it is very meaningful in this context, because the GOP has even less credibility as the party of economic prosperity than it does as the party of fiscal responsibility.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

The GOP and conservatives potentially have a very important role.  There is a heavy need for the voters/representatives who rein in progressivism by asking questions like “how are we going to pay for that” and “what’s the real cost”.  I am not old enough or studied enough to know if that was ever the reality of how the GOP served (I suspect this was the case during the Eisenhower administration), but it doesn’t appear to have been the case since at least 2000.  Sadly, over at least the last 20 years, the GOP slid from conservatism to regression.  People today calling themselves conservatives are in reality regressives; they’re not ensuring progress is made responsibly and with accountability, they’re actively working to take society backwards.  Embracing Trump was not only the death blow to their credibility as the party of family values and fiscal responsibility, it shifted their focus completely away from the parts of their ideology that have value.
 

In the context of our 2 party system, I am hopeful the GOP can shift into the proper role I described above as stewards of responsibility and accountability who serve as a check on radical liberalism.  But the only way that can happen is if the demagoguery represented by Trump is irreversibly defeated.  The 2016 election was devastating, but it wasn’t the end of the story.  In my opinion, a Trump Re-election would definitely mean the end of the GOP as anything other than the party of fascism, but quite possibly could mean the end of progress in our country.

Yep.

There's a problem.  Doing actual conservative things doesn't have a lot of appeal for a "me, me, me" electorate because it's responsible and in some cases austere.  See bozo's comment about GHWB.

Republicans found that they could create some popularity that actual positions wouldn't with social wedge issues and nostalgia for a mythic past.

The "going backward in time" thing is pure demagoguery, though.  It's not a viable policy position.  It's a cheering point and nothing more.

Also, while the demagoguery is not expressly racist, it taps into a societal myopia that implicates racist tendencies and allows them to "surface" or infect thought.

Edited June 30, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Bozo_Casanova 26688]

3 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

Imagine being so fucking awful you make Missouri purple again

It's like John Ashcroft, who was so unpopular that he he is the only incumbent Senator every to lose an election to a dead person.