2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[elfenix 34168]

10 minutes ago, TtomTerrific said:

they use this 230 exemption so as to not need to meet the restrictions and obligations of the other private entities, because they serve as a public utility.

maybe you should do some basic reading as to what section 230 says, how it came about, and what it allows companies to do, rather than half remembering some hearing where congresscritters who largely have no idea wtf they're talking about grievance signal about employees who said mean things to them still being employed, or asking google's CEO why his iphone won't call his great granddaughter.  of course, that would require doing something other than grievance-signaling on the internet, which seems like the reason you come to this part of the site. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by elfenix

[Bateshorn 9882]

Jesus  Christ, this isn’t hard: Twitter and Facebook are like newsstands, not a broadcast network. It’s why they can broadly moderate the content they carry.  If you don’t like it, go to a different news stand. 
 

Also, Republicans killed the fairness doctrine.  You have only yourselves to blame for that. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Bateshorn

[washparkhorn 9931]

3 hours ago, TtomTerrific said:

it is to have some "instant/direct messages" with your cirle of contacts

Sounds like a trap . . . 

[washparkhorn 9931]

2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

What's gonna take longer, calling the election or Trump conceding

Concession Watch 2020

[totallynotabuttpirate 5341]

2 hours ago, elfenix said:

how about we read section 230 instead of making up a bunch of shit about it?

 47 U.S. Code § 230 - Protection for private blocking and screening of offensive material

    U.S. Code
    Notes

prev | next
(a) FindingsThe Congress finds the following:
(1) The rapidly developing array of Internet and other interactive computer services available to individual Americans represent an extraordinary advance in the availability of educational and informational resources to our citizens.
(2) These services offer users a great degree of control over the information that they receive, as well as the potential for even greater control in the future as technology develops.
(3) The Internet and other interactive computer services offer a forum for a true diversity of political discourse, unique opportunities for cultural development, and myriad avenues for intellectual activity.
(4) The Internet and other interactive computer services have flourished, to the benefit of all Americans, with a minimum of government regulation.
(5) Increasingly Americans are relying on interactive media for a variety of political, educational, cultural, and entertainment services.
(b) PolicyIt is the policy of the United States—
(1) to promote the continued development of the Internet and other interactive computer services and other interactive media;
(2) to preserve the vibrant and competitive free market that presently exists for the Internet and other interactive computer services, unfettered by Federal or State regulation;
(3) to encourage the development of technologies which maximize user control over what information is received by individuals, families, and schools who use the Internet and other interactive computer services;
(4) to remove disincentives for the development and utilization of blocking and filtering technologies that empower parents to restrict their children’s access to objectionable or inappropriate online material; and
(5) to ensure vigorous enforcement of Federal criminal laws to deter and punish trafficking in obscenity, stalking, and harassment by means of computer.
(c) Protection for “Good Samaritan” blocking and screening of offensive material
(1) Treatment of publisher or speaker

No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.
(2) Civil liabilityNo provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of—
(A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or
(B) any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).[1]
(d) Obligations of interactive computer service

A provider of interactive computer service shall, at the time of entering an agreement with a customer for the provision of interactive computer service and in a manner deemed appropriate by the provider, notify such customer that parental control protections (such as computer hardware, software, or filtering services) are commercially available that may assist the customer in limiting access to material that is harmful to minors. Such notice shall identify, or provide the customer with access to information identifying, current providers of such protections.
(e) Effect on other laws
(1) No effect on criminal law

Nothing in this section shall be construed to impair the enforcement of section 223 or 231 of this title, chapter 71 (relating to obscenity) or 110 (relating to sexual exploitation of children) of title 18, or any other Federal criminal statute.
(2) No effect on intellectual property law

Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit or expand any law pertaining to intellectual property.
(3) State law

Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent any State from enforcing any State law that is consistent with this section. No cause of action may be brought and no liability may be imposed under any State or local law that is inconsistent with this section.
(4) No effect on communications privacy law

Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the application of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 or any of the amendments made by such Act, or any similar State law.
(5) No effect on sex trafficking lawNothing in this section (other than subsection (c)(2)(A)) shall be construed to impair or limit—
(A) any claim in a civil action brought under section 1595 of title 18, if the conduct underlying the claim constitutes a violation of section 1591 of that title;
(B) any charge in a criminal prosecution brought under State law if the conduct underlying the charge would constitute a violation of section 1591 of title 18; or
(C) any charge in a criminal prosecution brought under State law if the conduct underlying the charge would constitute a violation of section 2421A of title 18, and promotion or facilitation of prostitution is illegal in the jurisdiction where the defendant’s promotion or facilitation of prostitution was targeted.
(f) DefinitionsAs used in this section:
(1) Internet

The term “Internet” means the international computer network of both Federal and non-Federal interoperable packet switched data networks.
(2) Interactive computer service

The term “interactive computer service” means any information service, system, or access software provider that provides or enables computer access by multiple users to a computer server, including specifically a service or system that provides access to the Internet and such systems operated or services offered by libraries or educational institutions.
(3) Information content provider

The term “information content provider” means any person or entity that is responsible, in whole or in part, for the creation or development of information provided through the Internet or any other interactive computer service.
(4) Access software providerThe term “access software provider” means a provider of software (including client or server software), or enabling tools that do any one or more of the following:
(A) filter, screen, allow, or disallow content;
(B) pick, choose, analyze, or digest content; or
(C) transmit, receive, display, forward, cache, search, subset, organize, reorganize, or translate content.

for those who can't read good, here's the real operative part:

 

It’s not Tom’s fault for being completely wrong about everything, he get’s his information from Parlor. 

[TexLonghorn 5587]

 

[TexLonghorn 5587]

 

[Goredho 17302]

6 hours ago, closetohumping said:

apparently all of my conservative buddies are headed to something called parler

The walls of their safe spaces are closing in.

[immamac 42492]

4 hours ago, TtomTerrific said:

right...again....they are using this 230 to represent themselves as a public entity, there by exempting themselves from the other controls on private entities.  I say tax and law suit,  Ant up there says no tax advantage, which I don't agree with as I watched the House Committee hearings on this where they tax advantages were put up on screen.  But, I can't "google it" so, for right now, just for the one "advantage" thay they enjoy because they designate themselves under this 230 designation as a 'public utility'.....that's the entire issue.

 

The post office can't be sued for what is in the mail they deliver, but the post office can't only deliver mail that they want you to read either. 

Dude you have to start understanding things before you post in defense of them. This is nonsensical. You are starting s defense when you don't know what the thing you are defending is and it's really letting your stupid show. 

It would actually be more like UPS or FedEx deciding they didn't like what you were sending and returned to sender or scanned it and decided it broke terms of use or contract. 

Imagine if section 230 went away. I would be forced to ban you immediately because you type some of the most insane shit I've read on the internet with absolutely no factual basis and often times very factual basis for the opposite. 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3867]

8 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Honestly best case scenario for Dems to win both senate seats in GA. Go ahead- veto a stimulus. Perdue and Loeffler would be fucked

Those two senate seats is why Mitch will kill anything that would get the opposition motivated to get out and vote in the runoff.

Trump will go to Mar-a-Largo for the Xmas break and never return to DC.

[immamac 42492]

4 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Those two senate seats is why Mitch will kill anything that would get the opposition motivated to get out and vote in the runoff.

Trump will go to Mar-a-Largo for the Xmas break and never return to DC.

The opposition is beyond fired up for the runoff. They punted the hornets nest. 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3867]

6 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I am constantly amazed at how many do not understand this simple concept.

The same people believe freedom of speech includes freedom from consequences. 

[Huckleberry 32685]

7 hours ago, Captainant said:

Ttom, you wrote a whole novel but didn't seem to get to the point lol. Twitter and Facebook aren't public entities, they have no obligation to host content that they don't want to and can moderate accordingly. They aren't stopping you from saying or hearing an idea, they're just not letting their platform be the messenger. 

I'm all for parler and 8kun and all the fringe sites spinning up, because you have a right to speech and assembly. Some assembly may be required, though. 

Same thing for the birth of shaggy and later on, surly. They didn't like the old mods, so rather than bitch and moan about MUH FIRST AMENDMENT, they made their own board. With blackjack and hookers. 

Moderation is not censorship. Moderation is "you can't say that here", censorship is "you can't say that ANYWHERE'

 

7 hours ago, Captainant said:

That's... Not remotely close to how section 230 applies, and it imparts no tax benefits lol. It's a partial protection against copyright liability, that's it. Surly happens to be a beneficiary as well. 

You should actually read the source documents you're ranting about because you're showing your red ass

He's an idiot. I admire your tenacity on dealing with morons. 

[wildcat09 29187]

Seriously. His brain might as well be leaking out of his ears and y’all think you can get through to him?

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

The walls of their safe spaces are closing in.

Should make it easier for the FBI to keep tabs on the dangerous ones, too.  Win/win. 

[wildcat09 29187]

Every alternate conservative social media platform pretty quickly gets overwhelmed with child pornography and explicit nazi shit. Most of the more normal Republicans will be back to Facebook within a week.

[TtomTerrific 200]

Dude you have to start understanding things before you post in defense of them. This is nonsensical. You are starting s defense when you don't know what the thing you are defending is and it's really letting your stupid show. 
It would actually be more like UPS or FedEx deciding they didn't like what you were sending and returned to sender or scanned it and decided it broke terms of use or contract. 
Imagine if section 230 went away. I would be forced to ban you immediately because you type some of the most insane shit I've read on the internet with absolutely no factual basis and often times very factual basis for the opposite. 

It would be “like that” if either UPS or FEDEX (or a news paper stand)were exempt from normal private commercial obligations or liabilities due to having a congressional order written specifically about their private course of business being of public utility and therefore exempt from lawsuit which then they have turned into certain tax advantages.

Jesus you people are touchy about being authoritarian.

[Captainant 27311]

@immamac I'm surprised you didn't give tommy boy a timeout when he threated to take someone out the next time he saw them. 

Never mind that he is a live example of dunning-krueger in action 

[TXSG8R 3355]

21 hours ago, Esque said:

On the contrary, I think the 2020 elections were a huge loss for Democrats in the House.  The practical operations of the House are much more nuanced than the Senate, with Representatives being much more likely to break away from their party on any given, individual issue.  The Democrats gain of 41 seats was huge, but so is their loss of 7 to 10 seats two years later.  It will make it that much more difficult for them to pass legislation and move it to the Senate.

The increased prevalence of this perspective is deeply concerning to me.  Not all forms of government and created equal.  I would also argue strongly against the idea that local governments can pass more policy without scrutiny.  On the contrary, there is more visibility and transparency at the local government level and I would argue a lot more friction to do what is best for that community.  My favorite example is school districts, which are just another form of government.  I think smaller, local school districts operate better than these large school districts, even when accounting for tax revenue.

Also, would you have this same opinion if the GOP swept all three branches of government this year?  Or would you be arguing the other case?

Agreed with everything else you said.  I just have no faith that the representatives today are going to work together for a hard-fought compromise (both sides being too stuck in their positions), unless there is something that is absolutely pressing and there is wide approval.  As an example, I don't want taxes raised.  However, I think we need to given the current operating environment and the resulting debt.  But I also think we need to manage expenses as well.  Ideally, I'd love to see both happen.  But I think both sides are too stuck in their position (Republicans not wanting to raise taxes, Democrats not wanting to cut spending) to see any movement.

Right-leaning independent sounds about right for me.  Basically agree with 99% of what you are saying.  This is sort of my position now.  But I think both sides need to come together to pass meaningful legislation.  I don't think the answer is centralized government into one party's hands, whether that's Republicans or Democrats.

Agreed, but once again - I have little to no faith in either side working together to address these issues meaningfully and compromising for the betterment of all.

 

I don't know.  Just my two cents.  It will be interesting to see how things play out over the next two years.  I am hoping Biden can provide stability and decrease some of the social unrest.  I am also hoping (perhaps beyond hope) that Trump does the right thing and concedes sooner rather than later and gives some unifying signal to the country and those that support him.

Lower levels of government have a much easier time ignoring the minority opinions in a community.  A town of 10000 can easily ignore the LGBTQ rights of a handful of their residents.  A predominantly christian town can easily ignore the rights of a handful of muslims.  A predominantly white town can easily ignore the problems of a handful of POC.  As you move up in levels of government, you increase the chances of minority opinions being on equal footing.  That's why you need state policy checking locals, and federal policy checking states. 

The GOP sweeping all three branches of the government is exactly what I'm describing, its a narrow set of ideas in charge of all policy.  That's generally what local politics is.  

[immamac 42492]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

@immamac I'm surprised you didn't give tommy boy a timeout when he threated to take someone out the next time he saw them. 

Never mind that he is a live example of dunning-krueger in action 

He meant remove them from the state of Texas not the earth. We clarified some things in DM. I think he's adding valuable perspective into a side of the argument that many of us choose to only hear about in MSM channels. This is a real live example - in the wild. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

14 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Be sure and click through to the tweet thread and look at all the screenshots.

Absolutely disgusting.
 

I kind of agree with the one that says "Jared can go fuck himself."

[immamac 42492]

9 minutes ago, TtomTerrific said:

It would be “like that” if either UPS or FEDEX (or a news paper stand)were exempt from normal private commercial obligations or liabilities due to having a congressional order written specifically about their private course of business being of public utility and therefore exempt from lawsuit which then they have turned into certain tax advantages.

Jesus you people are touchy about being authoritarian.

Lolwut? This literally grants protection so the internet can exist outside of a state sponsored and controlled setting. 

I can ban whoever for whatever. Just like facebook can. Just like Twitter can. Just like texags can. Just like hornsfans did. Just like...

Want me to keep going? 

You are now saying section 230 is bad because people who are saying shit that is insane and a bad look are being moderated? FREE SPEECH!!!! 

sorry but you aren't allowed to go into Walmart and tell everyone they are going to hell and follow them around...nothing illegal about the words, but walmart would say "do that somewhere that isn't here, we don't care where" and then the police would eventually remove you for trespassing, because in fact private property reserves the right to remove you for any reason. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Is there a "I was told there would be no law" gif?

[South Austin 52037]

Just now, dingleberryswitzer said:

Is there a "I was told there would be no law" gif?

Oh I forgot you were sick the day they taught law at Surly law school!

[G650 13990]

18 minutes ago, immamac said:

I think he's adding valuable perspective

[Blotto 23418]

Welp.....it looks like Kenneth Copeland hasn't yet come around on the election results.

Not sure if Biden's campaign can recover from this. This guy is a true intellectual heavy hitter. 

[LABEVO 928]

 

[Tuco 5076]

33 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I kind of agree with the one that says "Jared can go fuck himself."

Well, those tweets are fucking disgusting, and painfully unsurprising. 

[sidis 9713]

Oh man, get ready for a surge of conspiracy insanity today. DJI up 1,700+ on Pfizer vaccine trial success for cv19. 

[South Austin 52037]

Just now, sidis said:

Oh man, get ready for a surge of conspiracy insanity today. DJI up 1,700+ on Pfizer vaccine trial success for cv19. 

Clearly Pfizer was in on the massive nation-wide voting fraud.

[AnTiM 1656]

14 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Welp.....it looks like Kenneth Copeland hasn't yet come around on the election results.

Not sure if Biden's campaign can recover from this. This guy is a true intellectual heavy hitter. 

I was not sure if there was a bigger nut case than Trump, now I am sure this clown is it.

[G650 13990]

4 minutes ago, sidis said:

Oh man, get ready for a surge of conspiracy insanity today. DJI up 1,700+ on Pfizer vaccine trial success for cv19. 

I just saw that. Amazing.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

6 hours ago, TtomTerrific said:

I wanted a lawyer who posts here who is reasonable to explain why this isn’t enraging those same lawyers whom I’ve seen loudly opposing anything resembling this on these boards before.

Stating that these companies are “private entities and therefore free to do business as they see fit” ignores that they use this 230 exemption so as to not need to meet the restrictions and obligations of the other private entities, because they serve as a public utility.

Thank You for answering a question about the acceptable restrictions on speech by suggesting that I accept what I’m given and not argue about it.

These are questions. Legitimately. Not arguments.

Y’all are getting WAY to comfortable with letting other people know when they can and cannot speak or about what. That’s becoming clear.

Good evening

You’re still a dumb bitch I see. Keep your head in the sand and fucking that chicken buddy. 
 

What you want is someone to give you confirmation bias but you’re not getting it so you’re upset. You disingenuous fuck stain. 

[sidis 9713]

When everyone who doesn’t devote themselves to the cult of orange is part of satanic cabal or pedophiles, pfizer is certainly not immune. Though it will be an amusing thing to watch when all these guys realize they also supply all their boner pills. 

[smuggs 9340]

How is this Pfizer development going to affect my Oleandrin holdings?

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

*wrong thread*

Edited November 9, 2020 by Hiphopopotamos

[AbeFroman 2107]

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You’re still a dumb bitch I see. Keep your head in the sand and fucking that chicken buddy.
 

What you want is someone to give you confirmation bias but you’re not getting it so you’re upset. You disingenuous fuck stain. 

Ah the ol’ Casey Kasem signoff 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I like candles but I like them in a modest amount. I'm hoping the WH has a fire extinguisher or two.

 

[tx 3 putt 76159]

21 minutes ago, sidis said:

Oh man, get ready for a surge of conspiracy insanity today. DJI up 1,700+ on Pfizer vaccine trial success for cv19. 

It’s already on FB, the trump / vaccine conspiracy 

[4th&Five 41457]

Good. Keep the wingnuts occupied so they don’t start shooting up malls. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 hour ago, TtomTerrific said:

It would be “like that” if either UPS or FEDEX (or a news paper stand)were exempt from normal private commercial obligations or liabilities due to having a congressional order written specifically about their private course of business being of public utility and therefore exempt from lawsuit which then they have turned into certain tax advantages.

Jesus you people are touchy about being authoritarian.

What "obligations or liabilities" exist that you think prevent private entities from moderating content? The law operates the exact opposite of the way you imagine it does. If there was no section 203, private entities would have to moderate you more because they would be vulnerable to liability otherwise. The only reason that things like QAnon could exist in the first place is because of Section 203. 

[mdmost 42775]

Based on the 60 Minutes piece last night on the vaccine rollout, it's going to be Christmas or 2021 for most people. They can only manufacture so many at a time and ship them out. The first doses won't go to the general public. It will be a while till it's something you can roll into your doctor and get. 

[lemonlime 5503]

15 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I like candles but I like them in a modest amount. I'm hoping the WH has a fire extinguisher or two.

 

The Bidens are gonna need to sage the fuck out of that place.

[Dahobbs 17420]

Biden's lead in Georgia keeps growing. Another small batch posted went 75% for Biden. Now leads by 10,501. And a 5,002 batch from Philly went 91% for Biden. 

[Prepuce of Doom 20969]

I propose that we change TTom's screen name to "Authentic Frontier Gibberish." 

[Laga4 1270]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Most of the more normal Republicans will be back to Facebook within a week.

That's not very many.

[bad_teammate 13125]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Biden's lead in Georgia keeps growing. Another small batch posted went 75% for Biden. Now leads by 10,501. And a 5,002 batch from Philly went 91% for Biden. 

Just you wait, buddy, big 'ole trucks are going to roll in with LEGAL VOTES and 'ol Donny is going to win. BIGLY!

[G650 13990]

1 minute ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

I propose that we change TTom's screen name to "Authentic Frontier Gibberish." 

Seconded

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Navajo Nation has been stalwart in 2020; got hit so hard with COVID and few resources with which to combat it, hardly anyplace to vote and appeals to remedy that were shut down. But they persisted. Listen to these patriot voices. Please do not forsake them:

Some reporters are bringing up Trump talking about Elizabeth Warren (Pocahontas) when he was honoring the WWII codetalkers, but I believe it is wrong to assume reasons for why the Navajo tribal members support a candidate (or not): one should ask them why they support a candidate.

[tx 3 putt 76159]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Biden's lead in Georgia keeps growing. Another small batch posted went 75% for Biden. Now leads by 10,501. And a 5,002 batch from Philly went 91% for Biden. 

Did a ‘Biden / Harris’ van drop off those votes ?