2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Scheiss Meister 8473]

My concern is that one of the court cases, whether it has merit or not, gets to the Supreme Court, and they vote on party lines to throw the election to Trump.  There was a reason that Trump was in a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court.

[BurntOrange&White 41957]

The court cases are meh. What’s more concerning is what the PA state senate and house are trying to do

[aggie08 21841]

5 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

My concern is that one of the court cases, whether it has merit or not, gets to the Supreme Court, and they vote on party lines to throw the election to Trump.  There was a reason that Trump was in a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court.

Courses without merit don't get to the Supreme Court, even if the President asks really, really nicely.

[Hiphopopotamos 21192]

10 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

My concern is that one of the court cases, whether it has merit or not, gets to the Supreme Court, and they vote on party lines to throw the election to Trump.  There was a reason that Trump was in a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court.

The problem Trump and the GOP have is that unlike Florida in 2000 - its not just one county in one state.  Trump would need the Supreme Court to toss out election results in three states.  And even if they 'tossed' those state results (and with it the 47 electoral votes for PA, AZ, and GA) it could be argued that Biden would only need to win the majority (246) of the rest of the 491 electoral votes.  Which he would have.

Even a corrupt Supreme Court isn't overturning this election.

 

The reason Trump (but really McConnell) was in such a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court was because there was a real fear that it might come down to just one state (PA) and just a few votes like Florida in 2000.  It didn't.  This vote isn't close.  A court isn't going to be able to steal it.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hiphopopotamos

[Scheiss Meister 8473]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Courses without merit don't get to the Supreme Court, even if the President asks really, really nicely.

And Presidents don't issue policy and orders via Twtter, but here we are.

[wildcat09 29595]

13 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

My concern is that one of the court cases, whether it has merit or not, gets to the Supreme Court, and they vote on party lines to throw the election to Trump.  There was a reason that Trump was in a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court.

As I think the most pessimistic-about-the-Supreme Court lawyer here on Surly, I can tell you there's like a 99.9% chance that concern is gone. That's not to say that 5 (or 6) conservative justices wouldn't steal an election from the GOP in the right scenario, but this is pretty damned far from the right scenario. They'd want something like the 2000 Florida recount with an extremely close race in one state that had a bunch of fucked up ballot issues, not an insurmountable lead spread across 4 different states, with only one of those having anything resembling a conceivable reason to throw out certain votes (and those votes were separated before the count and Biden's lead in PA is big enough that they don't matter). 

Also, Trump's legal team is nothing but clowns. It's basically a 50/50 guess whether any particular lawsuit these guys file even states a claim for which legal relief can be granted. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by wildcat09

[Scheiss Meister 8473]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The problem Trump and the GOP have is that unlike Florida in 2000 - its not just one county in one state.  Trump would need the Supreme Court to toss out election results in three states.  And even if they 'tossed' those state results (and with it the 47 electoral votes for PA, AZ, and GA) it could be argued that Biden would only need to win the majority (246) of the rest of the 491 electoral votes.  Which he would have.

Even a corrupt Supreme Court isn't overturning this election.

 

The reason Trump (but really McConnell) was in such a hurry to get the Stepford wife on the court was because there was a real fear that it might come down to just one state (PA) and just a few votes like Florida in 2000.  Id didn't.  This vote isn't close.  A court isn't going to be able to steal it.

 

I hope that this is how it plays out, and it is how it should play out.  But what convention, legal or otherwise, have Trump and Co. respected to this point?

[The Dog 44862]

9 hours ago, Tuco said:

It’s an elected position. He won as a Republican. I would be more disturbed if he didn’t acknowledge his bias. And it provides context for the importance to having loyalty to the system over loyalty to a political preference.

Agreed. People are misinterpreting what he said. He's a Republican and didn't like the fact that the Republican lost in his state. 

[BrickHorn 18447]

19 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

They can't win these cases.  They just want to sow enough doubt and misinformation that states don't certify their votes, and the House decides the "election."  We're watching an attempted coup in real time.  

Whether they'll be successful is another story, but either way they're taking a sledgehammer to our democracy.

This. It’s hilarious and scary that people keep underestimating Trump, but they do. “He won’t win in the courts!” Okay, but have you seen what he’s trying to do with the electors and the state certifications? 

Hopefully it won’t work. But the fact that Trump is actually trying it should be a huge wake-up call.

That the GOP leaders are not stepping in to quash this immediately is terrifying. This will be our reality going forward. Our politics are so fractured and polarized that leaders on the right no longer need respect the rule of law or norms. Their only mandate is “Win, by any means necessary.” I fear every election from now on will pose a constitutional crisis.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5487]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

I fear every election from now on will pose a constitutional crisis.

The flip side is maybe people will actually get off their fat asses and vote like their life depends on it. 

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

What everyone needs to be concerned about are the conditions that are currently allowing this to happen. From where I'm sitting, the country seems to be sitting on the knife edge of being lost. None of the people that are throwing tantrums right now are going to change their minds when Biden makes it through to the other side on 1/20/21. The Republicans are going to obstruct and throw shit around and send their base into a frenzy and we'll be here again in four years from now, if we're lucky. 

[Ted Lange 16427]

I think the main reason Mitch rushed through Barrett is because he knew Trump was gonna lose, not election related lawsuits. 

[Hiphopopotamos 21192]

This would be amazing:

 

[wildcat09 29595]

I want to see Sr. vs. Jr. running against each other for the 2024 GOP nomination.

[Hiphopopotamos 21192]

1 minute ago, Ted Lange said:

I think the main reason Mitch rushed through Barrett is because he knew Trump was gonna lose, not election related lawsuits. 

Yes - I wasn't clear - Trump wanted her appointed because he thought he needed her to protect his election.  Mitch needed her to finish off his 'pack the courts' plan before Biden became president.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

 Their only mandate is “Win, by any means necessary.” I fear every election from now on will pose a constitutional crisis.

On 537 votes (HBO), Roger Stone and one other person whose name escapes me essentially said this has been their goal from the get go. That was two decades ago. Nothing has changed other than the transparency and the public's obliviousness to it as long as their team wins.

[Red Five 41760]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

I want to see Sr. vs. Jr. running against each other for the 2024 GOP nomination.

[The Dog 44862]

26 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This will get smacked down like everything he does in court (or against all available apparent optics right now the Trumpsters will provide the receipts for what they are alleging)

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

[tx 3 putt 78725]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

This would be amazing:

 

Please happen, pleaaaaaaae 

[tx 3 putt 78725]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

Trumpers believe the deep state courts are holding all this down 

[immamac 44389]

1 minute ago, ConferenceRoom said:

What everyone needs to be concerned about are the conditions that are currently allowing this to happen. From where I'm sitting, the country seems to be sitting on the knife edge of being lost. None of the people that are throwing tantrums right now are going to change their minds when Biden makes it through to the other side on 1/20/21. The Republicans are going to obstruct and throw shit around and send their base into a frenzy and we'll be here again in four years from now, if we're lucky. 

Were you a "Donald Trump isn't MY PRESIDENT" idiot the first few months after the election? What happened to those idiots when they realized that Donald Trump was actually THEIR PRESIDENT? Reality sets in for everyone, it may take a few hours, days, weeks, and for the stubborn maybe even a few months. There is no way in 2022 people will be claiming that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States (or someone in his line of succession). Facts are easy to dispute before the end of the game. 

Losing 72-3 with 3 minutes left in the fourth quarter doesn't mean you have lost the game, even though losing is almost certain. Having lost 72-3 when the clock hits 00:00 at the end of the fourth quarter and heading back to the locker room. 

Easier to understand losing 72-3. Now imagine WINNING with 1 second left in the 4th quarter up by 2 and having a field goal kicked by the other team that started way left, but arcs back in and sails through the center of the uprights. No time left on the clock, game is over. The realization that you have just lost for some doesn't set in immediately, it sets in minutes, sometimes hours, and for the really weak minded sometimes days later before they come to terms with the loss. The people that take days to get over a loss are at a significant disadvantage for the game next saturday/sunday/whenever because they spent too much time reflecting/replaying/figuring out how they couldn't steer the ball in the air.

Trump, the GOP and the entire Republican Party lost by 10 and are bitching about a touchdown that got called back in the 3rd quarter and if they would have scored it they would have won, even though touchdowns are only worth 6 and it was only 1 touchdown and it was in the 3rd quarter. These people you will never convince that they lost, but you can convince them they ran out of time! (lulz aggy joke from the aggie)

[Ted Lange 16427]

As funny as the Trumps running the GOP would be, pleas god no.   Get those clowns out of our politics.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

6 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

What everyone needs to be concerned about are the conditions that are currently allowing this to happen. From where I'm sitting, the country seems to be sitting on the knife edge of being lost. None of the people that are throwing tantrums right now are going to change their minds when Biden makes it through to the other side on 1/20/21. The Republicans are going to obstruct and throw shit around and send their base into a frenzy and we'll be here again in four years from now, if we're lucky. 

That's been the concern here all along. Welcome to the ledge! Have a drink. I've switched from a Moscow Mule to a Lime Rickey (in honor of its DC origins) but depending upon how things go, a Blow My Skull Off may be how the day ends.

[kevwun 16444]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

The thing that troubles me the most about this situation is the willingness of Republicans to go along with Trump in this. He is destined to lose in court.  Are they willing to risk civil unrest for 2 senate seats in Georgia?  Or are they going along because they have no intention of giving up power and are willing to whatever is necessary to keep it?  This country is a powder keg right now and the Republicans are chain smoking and throwing their butts at it one after the other.  With each passing day, I lose a little more hope that this is going to be settled peacefully.

Edited November 10, 2020 by kevwun

[atomheartbevo 90664]

5 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

As funny as the Trumps running the GOP would be, pleas god no.   Get those clowns out of our politics.

I want them to run the GOP.  Might get enough defections to start up a serious third party.  

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Were you a "Donald Trump isn't MY PRESIDENT" idiot the first few months after the election? What happened to those idiots when they realized that Donald Trump was actually THEIR PRESIDENT? Reality sets in for everyone, it may take a few hours, days, weeks, and for the stubborn maybe even a few months. There is no way in 2022 people will be claiming that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States (or someone in his line of succession). Facts are easy to dispute before the end of the game. 

Losing 72-3 with 3 minutes left in the fourth quarter doesn't mean you have lost the game, even though losing is almost certain. Having lost 72-3 when the clock hits 00:00 at the end of the fourth quarter and heading back to the locker room. 

Easier to understand losing 72-3. Now imagine WINNING with 1 second left in the 4th quarter up by 2 and having a field goal kicked by the other team that started way left, but arcs back in and sails through the center of the uprights. No time left on the clock, game is over. The realization that you have just lost for some doesn't set in immediately, it sets in minutes, sometimes hours, and for the really weak minded sometimes days later before they come to terms with the loss. The people that take days to get over a loss are at a significant disadvantage for the game next saturday/sunday/whenever because they spent too much time reflecting/replaying/figuring out how they couldn't steer the ball in the air.

Trump, the GOP and the entire Republican Party lost by 10 and are bitching about a touchdown that got called back in the 3rd quarter and if they would have scored it they would have won, even though touchdowns are only worth 6 and it was only 1 touchdown and it was in the 3rd quarter. These people you will never convince that they lost, but you can convince them they ran out of time! (lulz aggy joke from the aggie)

While I agree with your point, my point was the mindset in general is not going to change. The tactics aren't going to change. It's not just about this election, it's the sick nature of the politics in this country that are allowing the election to play out the way that it's playing out. It's not going anywhere. 

[ryskey 449]

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

[The Dog 44862]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Were you a "Donald Trump isn't MY PRESIDENT" idiot the first few months after the election? What happened to those idiots when they realized that Donald Trump was actually THEIR PRESIDENT? Reality sets in for everyone, it may take a few hours, days, weeks, and for the stubborn maybe even a few months. There is no way in 2022 people will be claiming that Joe Biden is not the President of the United States (or someone in his line of succession). Facts are easy to dispute before the end of the game. 

 

I think a better one to look at is the 2000 election. That truly was a disputed election that had to be settled by the Supreme Court. Gore didn't fully concede until the middle of December (he did initially concede then withdraw the concession after this campaign told him how close Florida was). The entire process was front and center. This one appears to be more of a sideshow and even Fox News is having a hard time taking it seriously anymore. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

 

[Huckleberry 34709]

5 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

[immamac 44389]

Just now, The Dog said:

I think a better one to look at is the 2000 election. That truly was a disputed election that had to be settled by the Supreme Court. Gore didn't fully concede until the middle of December (he did initially concede then withdraw the concession after this campaign told him how close Florida was). The entire process was front and center. This one appears to be more of a sideshow and even Fox News is having a hard time taking it seriously anymore. 

everyone wants to make parallels to 2000, even before the election. This election is not close. This is 2020. I will repeat, this election is not close. 

[The Dog 44862]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

everyone wants to make parallels to 2000, even before the election. This election is not close. This is 2020. I will repeat, this election is not close. 

Agreed but that's the point I was trying to make. I was doing a bad job of agreeing with your take that people will move on. If they can move on after 2000 then they will after this.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5487]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

What starts in Antrim Michigan.......changes millions of votes all over the country. 

[kevwun 16444]

The biggest difference between 2020 and 2000 is that Trump appears to be perfectly fine with burning the country down if it means he gets to stay in the White House. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by kevwun

[Bevo14 8468]

1 minute ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

That would be amazing karma if they fucked themselves for the future by supporting Trump's asshattery.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 minute ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

Wishcasting. People’s actual beliefs and expressed beliefs are different. [literally everything we’ve seen for the last four years] out front should have told ya. They’ll vote. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

7 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

 

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

Not only that, it was caught early in the process, the ballots were recounted BY HAND, and never made it into the official tally. Ronna McDaniel as the Party head should be dragged over the coals for this, because she knew this and parroted the conspiracy theories anyway. Not that the GOP thinks it's wrong.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5487]

Just now, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Wishcasting. People’s actual beliefs and expressed beliefs are different. [literally everything we’ve seen for the last four years] out front should have told ya. They’ll vote. 

Is this like one of our aggy gonna go 5-5 posts every year? 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Aggy has the COVID. That's not wishcasting, that was in the news.

[ChiTownDoc 21347]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

This chiron is true.

It's from hypocrites and frauds and scum, but it's true.

The world is round.  If they keep running right and you keep running left...here we are.  Scary place.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21558]

4 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The biggest difference between 2020 and 2000 is that Trump appears to be perfectly fine with burning the country down if it means he gets to stay in the White House. 

And has Republicans and 1/3 of the country 100% willing to enable and actively help him.

[Tuco 5094]

6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

Nate seems to think that people answer polling questions based on deeply seated beliefs.  They don't.  They are just parroting whatever right wing is saying. 

If right wing media started saying that China is our friend, you'd see huge poll swings that way.  Just like you saw with "conservative" opinions on Russia.  

[GhostOfTomJoad 9514]

Disenfranchising military voters in a futile attempt to maintain power. There is no bottom for Trump (other than Pence).

[ChiTownDoc 21347]

9 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

I’m not as big a critic of Nate but Jesus dude - you can’t rely on polling Republicans.  Maybe that will change at some point but not right now.  

[Tuco 5094]

Just now, ChiTownDoc said:

I’m not as big a critic of Nate but Jesus dude - you can’t rely on polling Republicans.  Maybe that will change at some point but not right now.  

He understand statistics better than psychology. 

[Dahobbs 18343]

21 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Can someone explain the software glitches that somehow changed Biden votes to Trump votes?  The Hail Mary attempt here seems to be that if it affected some votes in one county, then the small effect in one county extrapolated to all counties in WI and MI would result in a huge swing.

 

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There was no software glitch. It was user error by GOP election officials in Antrim County, Michigan. 

Yup. No glitch. GOP officials in the county screwed up their data mapping. The software worked exactly as intended. 

[Hiphopopotamos 21192]

When you've lost the ruthless murderous dictators...

 

[Hiphopopotamos 21192]

And the grift goes on,

And the grift goes on...

 

[Kel Varnsen 8749]

Why not? Politics has been his most successful venture, by far.

[Hagbard Celine 11275]

4 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

 

Disenfranchising military voters in a futile attempt to maintain power. There is no bottom for Trump (other than Pence).

A large number of Nevada's APO addresses are for people with ATS clearances.  People in the black world have an "address" in Nevada for banking/tax/voting purposes regardless of military or civilian.

These fucktards are going after those votes because by definition those voters can't be "confirmed" in that you can't go to their house or call them because they live "off the grid."

An APO address is not a physical place.

The boys will not be happy.