2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

4 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Yep. Not a single judge unless the Dems win both senate seats in Georgia, or somehow scrape together 2 wins in 2022, and that will be very iffy. 

I saw a Facebook meme going around under the guise of “here’s my opinion on why Trump is great” and one of the many listings was that he appointed over 300 judges. All I could think was how is that an accomplishment?  A president should appoint as many judges as are required of him(or her lol) at any time. That they are so numerous for trump is the direct result of the senate refusing to do its job under the Obama administration. It is lunacy. 
 

I can copy/paste the shit if anyone wants to get a good laugh and/or extreme sense of frustration today. 

[C-Man 27050]

However, I am beginning to feel dread. While Dems happily dance and celebrate, a very dark monster materializes just over the horizon.

Same. My intelligent conservative friends seem overly confident that this race isn’t over yet. That worries me.

[Francisco 2.0 32323]

27 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Yeah, this. If you want to make sure Cult 45 remains the single largest force in American politics, put Don Jr in charge of the RNC.

Funny you should say this:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/politics/donald-trump-jr-kimberly-guilfoyle-rnc/index.html

 

Quote

Donald Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle are making moves to expand their influence at the Republican National Committee, three GOP sources, including advisers to the President tell CNN. Some sources say they may seek to take over the party structure themselves. 

President Donald Trump's eldest son and his girlfriend, a Trump campaign fundraiser and former Fox News host, have made it clear to campaign and White House officials they are unhappy with RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, who they view as not having done enough to win a close race. 

Trump Jr. and Guilfoyle could seek leadership roles at the RNC to position the committee for a comeback run for the President in 2024, the sources said.

 

[Bateshorn 9898]

1 minute ago, kevwun said:

Mitch McConnell isn't confirming a Justice nominated by a Democrat while he is majority leader.

This.  Stephen Breyer better be eating his fiber and getting exercise.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

I saw a Facebook meme going around under the guise of “here’s my opinion on why Trump is great” and one of the many listings was that he appointed over 300 judges. All I could think was how is that an accomplishment?  A president should appoint as many judges as are required of him(or her lol) at any time. That they are so numerous for trump is the direct result of the senate refusing to do its job under the Obama administration. It is lunacy. 
 

I can copy/paste the shit if anyone wants to get a good laugh and/or extreme sense of frustration today. 

Red team = good

Blue team = evil

 

(in their mind)

[heso 2748]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The court cases are meh. What’s more concerning is what the PA state senate and house are trying to do

This is what’s really concerning to me. We already knew that trump could do anything and not lose support. What this shows is that republicans at all levels of government are realizing that, as long as they are in a safely red seat or safe majority they can do absolutely anything, up to and including aiding and abetting subverting the electoral process. 

Anything done in the name of the Red team is not just tolerated, but encouraged. 

[Bateshorn 9898]

I'll say the obvious:  If Trump finds the right Defense Secretary and the Joint Chiefs acquiesce, and he's able to put troops in the streets, then the election is over and so is our democracy.  At that point, what's to keep him from stationing Troops in the Capitol and Supreme Court?  There's kind of no point in addressing that scenerio, because it's just autocracy and we are fucked. 

But if the rule of law is mostly observed here, or even partially, Trump's path to being sworn in again is almost nil.

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

5 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Maybe. Hope so. But I don't believe Joe Biden's Senate exists anymore. 

That's true. 

[BrickHorn 18189]

15 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

It won't be framed as cancelling the election or even declaring Trump the winner. While so many focus on the court cases and rational argument, the final move for Trump and his criminal accomplices in the GOP will be to declare that they are the ones saving democracy. Their cult and other hysterical rightists already believe that.

Shouldn't we be suspicious that Trump is removing a Secretary of Defense who vehemently opposes using the miltary domestically. In fact, the news opines that Trump fired him over that very issue. Esper wouldn't go along with Trump and the GOP senate employing the military to quell the violence likely to happen should Trump move to claim the office.

Let's say they find some ruling somewhere to provide the barest of justifications for doubting the vote. Let's say the Army lines the streets of Democratic cities with orders to save the republic from violent protest. Let's say 45% of the people not only support but cheer this because they've bought into the fear.

Does the shooting start? Does a largely complacent populace demonstrate that they will risk their lives for democracy? Can this anti-Trump contingent act in such a way that nullifies the lies and fear spewed for decades?

Both sides will claim they are for democracy. It doesn't matter to one side that they're full of shit and too stupid to even understand the simplest concepts upholding this republic.

I'm not holding on to a prediction about violence. I, too, was pacified by the victory. Even now, I predict nothing. However, I am beginning to feel dread. While Dems happily dance and celebrate, a very dark monster materializes just over the horizon.

Exactly. Normalcy bias is a hell of a sedative. Trump is not going down without a fight and the bulk of his 45% truly believe Democrats somehow stole the election. It’s a cult whose leader commands the most powerful military in world history. 

Trump is clearing the way for an authoritarian takeover or, if that fails, a civil war. God willing it won’t happen. But that doesn’t mean the president of the United States isn’t doing his damndest to make it happen. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Politics is not about doing what's best for the average American citizen. It's all about your team winning.

[BrickHorn 18189]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I'll say the obvious:  If Trump finds the right Defense Secretary and the Joint Chiefs acquiesce, and he's able to put troops in the streets, then the election is over and so is our democracy.  At that point, what's to keep him from stationing Troops in the Capitol and Supreme Court?  There's kind of no point in addressing that scenerio, because it's just autocracy and we are fucked. 

But if the rule of law is mostly observed here, or even partially, Trump's path to being sworn in again is almost nil.

I yearn for the heady optimism of 2 days ago, when I asked if the military would need to step in to ensure a peaceful transition of power and the overwhelming response was “Never. We’re good, thanks.”

[kevwun 15643]

7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I'll say the obvious:  If Trump finds the right Defense Secretary and the Joint Chiefs acquiesce, and he's able to put troops in the streets, then the election is over and so is our democracy.  At that point, what's to keep him from stationing Troops in the Capitol and Supreme Court?  There's kind of no point in addressing that scenerio, because it's just autocracy and we are fucked. 

But if the rule of law is mostly observed here, or even partially, Trump's path to being sworn in again is almost nil.

And since it's gotten to the point where this is even a possibility, I don't see how things are ever going back to normal.  The Republicans have decided they aren't going to cooperate to govern this country anymore.  This is an untenable situation and throughout history things like this have rarely been settled peacefully.

Edited November 10, 2020 by kevwun

[Burt Macklin 18997]

40 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

How insane has our country become that there is an acknowledgment that if this had been close then our votes would be invalidated by the Supreme Court?

I don’t think that’s true at all. A lot of people who arent familiar with the how the law works keep claiming this just because Trump appointed so many, but research actually shows appointed judges are less loyal to their party than elected ones. I think all the Judges would likely be impartial, and I also think even the ones appointed by Trump probably don’t like him, but we’re still willing to accept the position from him. I personally know a Circuit Court justice who ridiculed Trump constantly, including in public, and would routinely make jokes at Trump’s expense, yet when Trump nominated them, they obviously accepted the nomination, but I can tell you they still dislike Trump just as much, but just quit being public with it. They’d be more than happy to uphold Trump’s defeat. 

I’d bet most want him out of office for good, and they especially wouldn’t ignore all legal merit to keep him in office. Supreme Court Justices are not political actors and they have a deep respect for the position, unlike the GOP Senators. 

39 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

We don’t need fascism to infect our country anymore. Imagine Trumpism with someone competent. That’s a nightmare. It needs to be rooted out and killed 

Oddly I think it required someone as incompetent as Trump to get fascism to this level in America. I don’t think even a genius  could’ve mapped out this path. However, i do think now that it’s here, a real mastermind could take it and run with it.  

38 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Not surprising. Once all the legal battles are over, they’ll just claim it’s still not legitimate. Trump will keep pushing this shit and we’ll see more and more resignations until he finally finds a shitstain in each department willing to carry out his bullshit, no matter how far down the ladder he has to go. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

I was only half-listening but heard one of the talking heads say that in Georgia they not only are asking for a recount - Republicans and the Trump campaign are arguing that all 5 million ballots need to be hand counted.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/trump-campaign-requests-georgia-hand-count-votes-in-recount

The Trump campaign is requesting the Georgia Secretary of State hand-count all ballots in the state's recount effort.

In a statement, U.S. Rep. Doug Collins, who was tapped to lead Trump's recount effort in the state, released three formal requests to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger connected to the upcoming recount.

Collins asked for a "full comparison" of absentee ballots, in-person, and provisional ballots cast in Georgia as well as a check for any votes cast by ineligible persons, including felons.

The Trump campaign's third request was for Raffensperger's office to "announce a full hand-count of every ballot cast in each and every county due to widespread allegations of voter irregularities, issues with voting machines, and poll watcher access."

Normally in recounts, the secretary of state's office uses high-speed scanners found at each county's central election office, rescanning every ballot.

 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

We're still good.

 

[TexasEd 8064]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

America - Defeated Fascism Twice!  I'd say America is Great Again

Edited November 10, 2020 by TexasEd

[Neonmoon 38127]

Just now, Hiphopopotamos said:

Republicans and the Trump campaign are arguing that all 5 million ballots need to be hand counted.

Of course they are. They don't have the votes. They're trying to delay certification, and thus send it to someone else who might tip it towards Trump

[Pescado_Rojo 19331]

38 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Just ordered one.

me too

 

[Bateshorn 9898]

I know Bush v. Gore is not supposed to be precedent, but I'm having a hard time believing the justices are going to allow Trump to gum up the works past the safe harbor deadline.  That's the nut of the 2000 case.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

me too

 

Same. 

Now we'll know how to spot each other in public. 

[RomaVicta 29781]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

On 537 votes (HBO), Roger Stone and one other person whose name escapes me essentially said this has been their goal from the get go. That was two decades ago. Nothing has changed other than the transparency and the public's obliviousness to it as long as their team wins.

I'm reminded of when Nixon-man Jeb Stuart MacGruder came to UT to speak  back in the 70s. He had already done his time in country club prison. He said that Nixon was trying to set up the executive so that he and his people would have ongoing power. I assumed he meant that the executive could be used to deal with enemies, sabotage campaigns, and concentrate power for Nixon and his followers over time.

I think the mood of the day with the distrust of the establishment, the fashionability of being politically involved, and everybody paying attention put a halt to Nixon's plan. I never really took it seriously back then. In a time when there is virulent support for the GOP/Trump establishment, and people are neither as politically involved or paying attention (at least until last week), I wonder how Nixon would be executing his plan.

I think Nixon cared about the country despite his villainy. What if you combined Nixon and Trump where you had Nixon's polical savvy and Trump's sociopathic narcissism combined?

Yikes.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

first yoot analysis i've seen post-election.  says 8% up from 2016. of course all people were more likely to vote this year, so total share went up from 16% to 17%.  not that great.  still though, these same humans that voted like the below will be voting again next time, plus a new batch of young folks.

 

bonus of a picture from the drag.    

 

https://www.wnct.com/your-local-election-headquarters/millennials-gen-z-voters-helped-get-joe-biden-to-the-white-house-analysis-shows/

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by BehoId, The Underminer!

[Foosters 17730]

13 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I'll say the obvious:  If Trump finds the right Defense Secretary and the Joint Chiefs acquiesce, and he's able to put troops in the streets, then the election is over and so is our democracy.  At that point, what's to keep him from stationing Troops in the Capitol and Supreme Court?  There's kind of no point in addressing that scenerio, because it's just autocracy and we are fucked. 

But if the rule of law is mostly observed here, or even partially, Trump's path to being sworn in again is almost nil.

Yeah, if he steals it, it's not going to be through the courts. It will be because he's sufficiently staffed key positions with loyalists who would follow every order he gives, regardless of precedent or legality.

There may be a singular moment at which there is no turning back. It will be up to someone in the chain to refuse. If the first hammer drops - whether it's ordering jackboots from DHS or ICE into cities, or having a key Dem(s) arrested - then it will be difficult to unring that bell. For every illegal act he greenlights, it becomes exponentially more difficult to stop because he knows if he is successfully removed, he's going to be prosecuted. 

We are under the mistaken belief that norms and precedent will once again save the day, or that all these "normal" educated, professionals will provide a calming balm and the disruption will cease. Like we're somehow immune to the forces that lead to collapse elsewhere.

To be clear, I view the above as highly unlikely. But people are naive that he won't try every single tactic he can conjure to hold on. It's entirely up to those below him.

[henrygandorf 29174]

big progress indeed. 

[immamac 42517]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

Yeah, if he steals it, it's not going to be through the courts. It will be because he's sufficiently staffed key positions with loyalists who would follow every order he gives, regardless of precedent or legality.

There may be a singular moment at which there is no turning back. It will be up to someone in the chain to refuse. If the first hammer drops - whether it's ordering jackboots from DHS or ICE into cities, or having a key Dem(s) arrested - then it will be difficult to unring that bell. For every illegal act he greenlights, it becomes exponentially more difficult to stop because he knows if he is successfully removed, he's going to be prosecuted. 

We are under the mistaken belief that norms and precedent will once again save the day, or that all these "normal" educated, professionals will provide a calming balm and the disruption will cease. Like we're somehow immune to the forces that lead to collapse elsewhere.

To be clear, I view the above as highly unlikely. But people are naive that he won't try every single tactic he can conjure to hold on. It's entirely up to those below him.

You realize this would be an international conflict immediately if this happened right?

[Biff Tannen 45492]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

You realize this would be an international conflict immediately if this happened right?

Would be wild to have Germany come to our rescue.

[RomaVicta 29781]

1 hour ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

That's the evil Trump and the GOP do put into a clear, simple graph. Enemies of the state. Literally.

[closetohumping 17400]

[closetohumping 17400]

6 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Yeah, if he steals it, it's not going to be through the courts. It will be because he's sufficiently staffed key positions with loyalists who would follow every order he gives, regardless of precedent or legality.

There may be a singular moment at which there is no turning back. It will be up to someone in the chain to refuse. If the first hammer drops - whether it's ordering jackboots from DHS or ICE into cities, or having a key Dem(s) arrested - then it will be difficult to unring that bell. For every illegal act he greenlights, it becomes exponentially more difficult to stop because he knows if he is successfully removed, he's going to be prosecuted. 

We are under the mistaken belief that norms and precedent will once again save the day, or that all these "normal" educated, professionals will provide a calming balm and the disruption will cease. Like we're somehow immune to the forces that lead to collapse elsewhere.

To be clear, I view the above as highly unlikely. But people are naive that he won't try every single tactic he can conjure to hold on. It's entirely up to those below him.

I would suspect most of his followers, includign his family secretly hate him.  I believe someone at some point would turn on him to avoid jail time.  

[HenryJames 65889]

 

[closetohumping 17400]

[closetohumping 17400]

1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

 

Ouch

[GhostOfTomJoad 9307]

me too
 

Got one for me and a few more to hand out to friends at HH.

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

 

I concur.

[Foosters 17730]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

You realize this would be an international conflict immediately if this happened right?

Of course. I don't think it will happen. I'd be shocked if it did.

But there are many things I didn't think I'd ever see that are happening. Including sitting US senators trying to overthrow a rightfully elected president.

[Firemans4Horn 17828]

Pathetic

 

 

[immamac 42517]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

Of course. I don't think it will happen. I'd be shocked if it did.

But there are many things I didn't think I'd ever see that are happening. Including sitting US senators trying to overthrow a rightfully elected president.

You guys talk about a cute civil war and think our global allies are going to stand by when a tyrant tries to turn the united states into a dictatorship? You are fucking smoking more crack than hunter biden did in his hayday. 

Boris fucking Johnson just tweeted confirming their recognition of Joe Biden as the President Elect. This isn't some bullshit newspaper fuck up. This is the country we fought a bloody fucking war against to gain freedom from last time, their entire government has looked over the situation and said "hey this looks safe to call for Joe" and then Boris gave him a call and started those conversations. 

I know we have the desensitized belief that other countries heads of state just tweet random bullshit that they haven't run past the rest of their very diligent and sensitive teams, but that isn't so, and especially not in the UK. 

[G650 14104]

44 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know about that. Biden was a pretty shrewd operator in the Senate. He knowns when and where to apply leverage in a way that Obama did not and can make things difficult for the entire GOP caucus.

This

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Texags are prepping for a civil war due to Orange Man being cheated.

['stache 21770]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Dems aren't getting a judge through unless they have the senate. Full stop.

This would be a legitimate constitutional crises. The senate is problematic from a one person one vote point of view, but if the minority (republicans) can legitimately pack the Supreme Court by not confirming another democrat appointed judge, and if its within the next two years (so the "election year" excuse is gone), the constitution might as well be shredded. There is only so much the majority can take before things explode.

Edited November 10, 2020 by 'stache

[Pescado_Rojo 19331]

45 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Funny you should say this:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/politics/donald-trump-jr-kimberly-guilfoyle-rnc/index.html

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Nice to see Cohn not denying reality like Nate S and G Elliot. 
 

 

 

[Mo Horn 8807]

WTH does this mean? 

[RomaVicta 29781]

48 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

The one tweet I agree with, a win for the elected President Joe Biden.

Will no one rid us of this pest?

[wildcat09 29237]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

You guys talk about a cute civil war and think our global allies are going to stand by when a tyrant tries to turn the united states into a dictatorship? You are fucking smoking more crack than hunter biden did in his hayday. 

Boris fucking Johnson just tweeted confirming their recognition of Joe Biden as the President Elect. This isn't some bullshit newspaper fuck up. This is the country we fought a bloody fucking war against to gain freedom from last time, their entire government has looked over the situation and said "hey this looks safe to call for Joe" and then Boris gave him a call and started those conversations. 

I know we have the desensitized belief that other countries heads of state just tweet random bullshit that they haven't run past the rest of their very diligent and sensitive teams, but that isn't so, and especially not in the UK. 

Do you think the UK is going to invade if Trump deploys the military into American streets?

[Michael Knight 12891]

That might be the most dishonest thing hes tweeted 

[Red Five 40652]

2 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

WTH does this mean? 

The leader of the covid task force is taking a much needed vacation after handling the virus so well. 

[TexasEd 8064]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Easier to understand losing 72-3. Now imagine WINNING with 1 second left in the 4th quarter up by 2 and having a field goal kicked by the other team that started way left, but arcs back in and sails through the center of the uprights. No time left on the clock, game is over. The realization that you have just lost for some doesn't set in immediately, it sets in minutes, sometimes hours, and for the really weak minded sometimes days later before they come to terms with the loss. The people that take days to get over a loss are at a significant disadvantage for the game next saturday/sunday/whenever because they spent too much time reflecting/replaying/figuring out how they couldn't steer the ball in the air.

Trump, the GOP and the entire Republican Party lost by 10 and are bitching about a touchdown that got called back in the 3rd quarter and if they would have scored it they would have won, even though touchdowns are only worth 6 and it was only 1 touchdown and it was in the 3rd quarter. These people you will never convince that they lost, but you can convince them they ran out of time! (lulz aggy joke from the aggie)

Visualization for those that don't read too well

 

[immamac 42517]

2 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

That might be the most dishonest thing hes tweeted 

It's sad because Joe won PA without the 3 day extension. The 3 day extension turns this from a solid win to an uncontestable win.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

54 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don't know about that. Biden was a pretty shrewd operator in the Senate. He knowns when and where to apply leverage in a way that Obama did not and can make things difficult for the entire GOP caucus.

Biden’s work in the Obama administration isn’t exactly a success story.  IMO, he’s still woefully out of touch for the moment and seems to be under the illusion he can cooperate with fascists.