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2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

Patrick Bateman

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3360

Posted
Posted
Just now, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Could mean that Trump asked him to do something that was finally too much to even ask of Pence.

Or, he's taking an early Thanksgiving break.

Or he's got the rona and is hiding.  When is the last time he was seen in public, the VP debate?  

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, seven said:

Just my opinion, but I don't think minors are where we should be making examples out of people. 

He needs to be charged and the juvenile system will take care of him. He won’t be thrown in prison but hopefully he’ll get a little perspective. If not, it won’t be before long that he’ll be in the pen.

 

But he should be charged.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29781

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, immamac said:

actually pretty common and wasn't rushed at all, it was actually fairly delayed. 

Does it usually make the news? Do you really not think they're stepping up to encourage acceptance of the election results as diplomatically as they can while Trump still wields the power of an American presidency?

If it was delayed, doesn't that also tell you something about how normal they view this process?

I don't know what will happen, immamac, but I don't see things as business as usual in any way shape or form.

I do maintain that the Republican position is likely dictated by how much they have to lose. I don't think anyone fights this hard and dirty and maybe even criminally to simply maintain political ascendanct for political reasons. I think jail, shame, and God knows what else has them backed into a corner.

At some point, some GOPs that aren't dirty will have to jump ship in the Senate. That or lose their nerve.

In the USA, we're wondering where the Army stands, if the president will facilitate a power transition, why the president has fired a Sec'y of Defense that denied him use of the Army within the borders against US citizens, and if we should recognize the outcome of an election where there is no evidence of fraud.

Banana republic run by Banana Republicans

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21468

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

He needs to be charged and the juvenile system will take care of him. He won’t be thrown in prison but hopefully he’ll get a little perspective. If not, it won’t be before long that he’ll be in the pen.

 

But he should be charged.

This is Texas.  We like charging juveniles as adults.  I don’t agree with it, but it is what it is.

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ultimaton

ultimaton 2966

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Okie State said:
51 minutes ago, immamac said:
It's sad because Joe won PA without the 3 day extension. The 3 day extension turns this from a solid win to an uncontestable win.

I'm confused as to why they continue to bring up the 3 day extension when it's essentially irrelevant to the outcome.

Get those tossed and you are one step closer to getting all mail votes invalidated. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Could mean that Trump asked him to do something that was finally too much to even ask of Pence.

Or, he's taking an early Thanksgiving break.

Or his "vacation" is a positive covid prognosis.

He's supposedly traveling to Sanibel Island, Florida. It could be all of your scenarios. I just want to ask if he's going to get voted off the island or did he get voted to the island?

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8064

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Okie State said:
57 minutes ago, immamac said:
It's sad because Joe won PA without the 3 day extension. The 3 day extension turns this from a solid win to an uncontestable win.

I'm confused as to why they continue to bring up the 3 day extension when it's essentially irrelevant to the outcome.

optics, illusions, sleight of hand

iow, Shenanigans

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Yeah, but as @Lobo pointed out, she didn't concede until lunch the next day. LUNCHTIME! The fucking nerve indeed. Oh well, guess it's time to vote for <checks notes> GOP Board of Education.

Jump to conclusions much?  I didn’t like the way she handled her concession and I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 and hope he burns in hell in 2020.  When, like Trumpers, you make everything binary in politics.....that’s how we got to where we are.  I

I didn’t bring her up on this thread.  But if four years ago, I invited two people who I really didn’t like to dinner because the one I really wanted to dine with wasn’t available.  And one of those two didn’t show up and didn’t explain why until the next day, I wouldn’t give it much thought.  And the one that did show up caused the death of my uncle, offended my wife, insulted the waiter, shit on his chair, ordered the most expensive items, and stuck me with the tab.....I’d spend the next four years making sure he never dined with anybody I knew and I’d work hard and pay to make sure he was banned from every restaurant I knew.  
 

and then after his banishment came to fruition, somebody brought up out of the clear blue sky a question about that other person who didn’t let me know about dinner until the next day...I guess I’d say “yeah, it was disappointing.”   
I didn’t like her move, who gives a shit?  The point was my hatred of Trump got me outta bed in the morning.  Quit being so fucking binary in your thinking, it makes you like them.  Even fucking Hugo gets political nuance.  She did some shitty stuff that some people don’t like but I want Trump in jail and then dead.  Clear enough for you dipshit?

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18189

Posted
Posted
Just now, RomaVicta said:

I do maintain that the Republican position is likely dictated by how much they have to lose. I don't think anyone fights this hard and dirty and maybe even criminally to simply maintain political ascendanct for political reasons. I think jail, shame, and God knows what else has them backed into a corner.

Focusing on speculative legal consequences of a loss is wrong-headed, in my opinion. It leads to conspiracy theory thinking and speculation that can easily be dismissed. And I don’t think it is what is driving the GOP, so any solutions we come up with to corruption of that sort are unlikely to solve the problem.

In my view, the GOP is reacting instead to political incentives. Their constituency no longer requires adherence to principles or norms. They demand victory, by any means necessary. GOP politicians have no incentive not to cheat or engage in rank hypocrisy or even violence. Indeed, their voters encourage it and will punish any GOP leader who fails to exploit every possible advantage. (This is why establishment Republicans fear Trump - they fear stoking the ire of the rabid mob that is now their party.)

The bad behavior of Republicans is entirely explainable through political calculus. They’re doing what their voters want. The country is partisan as a motherfucker and Republican voters have abandoned democratic and bipartisan principles. Like an ideal gas, the GOP playbook expanded to fill the space allowed by their constituencies.

Unless Republicans miraculously regain a commitment to democratic principles, this country is fucked. Because a GOP candidate will be elected president again, and he will face no resistance from his own party. A Biden presidency buys us four years.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

Posted
Posted

Thread:

Continued:

The first thing we have to establish is that Trump is erratic. He flails and rages. But that flailing and raging, paired with his shamelessness, exposes weaknesses in our system.

When Trump finds a weakness, he exploits it until he breaks through.

Right now Trump is defeated. He has no legitimate means of winning this election and so he's throwing everything at it in hopes something will stick. At times, it's laughable, but all he needs is ONE THING to work.

Trump is a gambler playing multiple hands. He's a terrible gambler, but his entire life he's just trying so many angles at so many times that he waits until he finds something that even halfway works.

This? Right now? This is multiple hands of badly played poker.
 

So what are the possible outcomes?

Trump loses but saves face.

Trump loses but raises money.

Trump manages to break through, subvert democracy, and steals the election.

These are all "wins" for him even if it means radicalizing people and a coup.

This is how Trump sees the world. He's not worried about inspiring violence, destroying democracy, hurting the nation or anyone in it.

He's looking for his best possible outcome and doesn't care what he does in the process.

It's a COUP AND A SCAM. Both things at once.

Meanwhile, and this is important, the Republicans are playing their own games.

Some are true believers, nuts who believe the election was stolen. But most understand Trump lost and are playing their own game.

We have to understand why they're doing it.

People like McConnell and Graham are giving voice to Trump for multiple reasons. They need to keep Trumpists active in the GOP, they need to win the special elections in GA, the controversy creates passion, and it leads to fundraising.

But...they're also fine with a coup.

If Trump manages to break through and actually steals the election, the Republicans would be fine with it. That would mean power, and that's their only concern.

This willingness to harness a fascist strongman is why they cannot be trusted with power.

As I mentioned in my article this morning, Fox News is now vying to keep its audience as Trumpists reject it for actually reporting Biden's win.

They'll cover these conspiracy theories to keep viewers loyal if at all possible.

The whole point is this: Trump and the GOP are playing a dangerous game. The coup might not work, but they see an advantage at flirting with a coup.

The coup might work and they see an advantage with grasping power for themselves.

It's a win-win for them while we lose.

I don't think Trump or the GOP truly believe they're going to manage to overturn the election, but peddling these conspiracy theories help them regardless.

But the frightening thing? If it does work and they carry out a coup? They're more than happy to accept that.

This has been theater from the very beginning. Trump played an authoritarian on TV until he BECAME ONE.

You play the role until you are the role. In this case, they're posturing for power and profit until they gain power and profit, one way or another.

Again, this doesn't mean the coup will work. It's haphazard, lazy, and stupid.

But...it COULD work. That's the danger here we have to take seriously.

Not to mention the fact that these people are more than willing to endanger lives and threaten democracy.

If the coup works, we're in a whole world of trouble.

If it doesn't, Trump and the GOP have turned the temperature up, radicalized numbers of supporters, and possibly inspired terroristic acts by their supporters.

It's unconscionable and dangerous on a whole other level.

People are going to tell you there's nothing to worry about. That's absolutely wrong and irresponsible.

You can recognize there's no legal ground here while understanding these people are bad faith actors who rage until they find weakness in the law and systems.

This thing isn't a joke. Trump and the GOP are playing a game, but there's nothing funny about it. We're all in incredible danger right now and pretending like it isn't dangerous, win or lose, only empowers and enables them to continue destroying democracy.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104592

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Posted

Well, I have to say.....my concerns that this will only end with violence are now rising to the level of an expectation that this will only end with violence.  I'm becoming convinced that we won't get him to leave office without actual fighting.  And the possibility of American military forces being deployed in connection with that fighting are rising alarmingly fast.

But, you know, I'm a kook and a loon.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18980

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, The Dog said:

This is the thing that bugs me the post about all of this - why aren't any of my Trumper friends asking this very question? If the evidence is so overwhelming, then why hasn't it appeared in any case they've submitted to this point? They are just taking Trump's word at face value and whatever the conservative bloggers come up with as gospel. 

I've been wanting to ask them about this, but since they all ran off to Pardner or whatever the hell it is I haven't had the chance. Oh well.

Yeah- bc they have bought in to the idea that the media is against them (by and large they are) so anything that gets published is just hand waived away and they have no basis for making a determination on what’s real. 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30088

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Posted
The supreme court even if all 9 were confirmed by Trump wouldn't even take up this case and if they did it would effectively mean the end of democracy in America, which means particularly in this election that there is no longer an America. The court would know the court didn't matter at all if they took up that case. I would do all kinds of federally illegal things, because I wouldn't follow any federal laws starting with that moment. 

This. It would rightfully be seen as the end of SCOTUS legitimacy. They won’t shit their own nest for Trump.
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 18980

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Exactly why he has to cash in that PTO time now! They don't pay you out for it when you get fucking fired.

Sometimes they pay out for vacation but never for sick. If I was him I’d catch the ‘Rona. God only knows how many people he’s bumping around next to have it. 

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DaysOff

DaysOff 7851

Posted
Posted
Well, I have to say.....my concerns that this will only end with violence are now rising to the level of an expectation that this will only end with violence.  I'm becoming convinced that we won't get him to leave office without actual fighting.  And the possibility of American military forces being deployed in connection with that fighting are rising alarmingly fast.
But, you know, I'm a kook and a loon.

You realize The Bachelorette is on tonight. Those pussies aren't going to do shit.
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ndawg

ndawg 1242

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Posted

I'm convinced that people who think we're fine are paying attention to the well educated, polished talking heads on TV and social media, as well as their cool headed friends and family. And, to be fair, they make rational points. When you've got world leaders spanning the spectrum from Merkel down to Ergodan all congratulating Biden, it's pretty clear who has the momentum here.

On the other hand, the people who think we're on the ledge are looking at 71 million Americans who willingly voted for a dictator, and a good percentage of whom are -- at the present moment -- galvanized in their support of a dictator achieving a coup.

Pick which group of people you pay attention to, and it'll decide whether you're on the ledge.

If we don't address the estrangement between a significant number of those 71 million Americans and reality, we'll end up in the same bad place either way.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104592

Posted
Posted
Just now, ndawg said:

If we don't address the estrangement between a significant number of those 71 million Americans and reality, we'll end up in the same bad place either way.

This.  We're not looking at a turd in the punch bowl.  We're looking at a punch bowl full of millions of turds, mixed with runny shit, all mixed in with the punch.  And we've got to find some way to make that safe to drink.

Got any ideas?  I'm fresh out.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
Just now, ndawg said:

On the other hand, the people who think we're on the ledge are looking at 71 million Americans who willingly voted for a dictator, and a good percentage of whom are -- at the present moment -- galvanized in their support of a dictator achieving a coup.

giphy.gif

Very few Trump voters said, "WOOHOO A DICTATOR LET'S GO!"
You have zero evidence of large groups galvanized to participate in a coup.

Look outside. There's no one there. There's hardly any of them anywhere.

Trump is desperately attempting to whip up support for a coup, that's no doubt. If mass movements of violence rose up in his favor he would crow about it on Twitter and be overjoyed. There's nothing he would love more right now than 200,000 armed gomers and gumps marching through the streets of liberal cities with guns.

But it's not happening and there is zero rumbling that it might. They've got no power on the streets. They're impotent.

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TXSG8R

TXSG8R 3360

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ndawg said:

I'm convinced that people who think we're fine are paying attention to the well educated, polished talking heads on TV and social media, as well as their cool headed friends and family. And, to be fair, they make rational points. When you've got world leaders spanning the spectrum from Merkel down to Ergodan all congratulating Biden, it's pretty clear who has the momentum here.

On the other hand, the people who think we're on the ledge are looking at 71 million Americans who willingly voted for a dictator, and a good percentage of whom are -- at the present moment -- galvanized in their support of a dictator achieving a coup.

Pick which group of people you pay attention to, and it'll decide whether you're on the ledge.

If we don't address the estrangement between a significant number of those 71 million Americans and reality, we'll end up in the same bad place either way.

There's a good reason a healthy chunk of that 71 million like flying the stars and bars.  Its the remnants of a chunk of society that never accepted the results of the civil war.  I don't know that their estrangement can ever be addressed short of bloodshed.  They invite it.  

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9671

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, immamac said:

in other words though: 

Gritty is Coming on Twitter: "… "

As an aside, this phrase is the most wonderful re-discovery to our lexicon in a while.  Yes I had heard the phrase before, but before surly highlighted it, I had no idea how versatile it was.  I find myself using repeatedly throughout the day in a multitude of situations.  Kids becoming disrespectful or ignoring my requests?  "FAAFO!".   Social situation and someone says something stupid?  "FAAFO"!  Even at work, it has become my silent response to almost every question asked (although I change the phrasing a bit).

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

giphy.gif

Very few Trump voters said, "WOOHOO A DICTATOR LET'S GO!"
You have zero evidence of large groups galvanized to participate in a coup.

Look outside. There's no one there. There's hardly any of them anywhere.

Trump is desperately attempting to whip up support for a coup, that's no doubt. If mass movements of violence rose up in his favor he would crow about it on Twitter and be overjoyed. There's nothing he would love more right now than 200,000 armed gomers and gumps marching through the streets of liberal cities with guns.

But it's not happening and there is zero rumbling that it might. They've got no power on the streets. They're impotent.

They're meeting up in DC this weekend. You didn't get the memo?

Thanks to Surly deciding to join parler, I spent some time messing around in the public areas over there and the Proud Boys groups are advertising going, and so are others. They are calling it the Million MAGA March and it's also splashing across YouTube and other forms of communication. Yeah, I'm concerned about that. I'm on the ledge. Why wouldn't I be? This affects people I care about.

This isn't from the Proud Boys parler account, it's a YouTube rando.

 

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8691

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  We're not looking at a turd in the punch bowl.  We're looking at a punch bowl full of millions of turds, mixed with runny shit, all mixed in with the punch.  And we've got to find some way to make that safe to drink.

Got any ideas?  I'm fresh out.

We have to marginalize Fox News to the fringe and refuse to legitimize It’s “straight news” side. No seats in the White House Press room. No administration officials on the networks. Hopefully the loyal watchers will die off or go elsewhere 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

giphy.gif

Very few Trump voters said, "WOOHOO A DICTATOR LET'S GO!"
You have zero evidence of large groups galvanized to participate in a coup.

Look outside. There's no one there. There's hardly any of them anywhere.

Trump is desperately attempting to whip up support for a coup, that's no doubt. If mass movements of violence rose up in his favor he would crow about it on Twitter and be overjoyed. There's nothing he would love more right now than 200,000 armed gomers and gumps marching through the streets of liberal cities with guns.

But it's not happening and there is zero rumbling that it might. They've got no power on the streets. They're impotent.

Let's look it this way. Their support is strong enough that the GOP is not only failing to summarily dismissing Trump's attempts, but is actively aiding and abetting. Ten years ago, nobody would be comfortable with the thought of either political party going this far to delegitimize our election process and institutions.

So, sure, you're right, not all 71 million are rabid, mouth frothing primates in discount camo gear, and few are galvanized enough to take the streets. But that's not the only measure of power. When you have tens of millions of people cheering on a coup attempt that is in progress, there is indeed a legitimate threat. And, as I said, even if not now, there is no active force pulling these people back to reality. They're only getting increasingly untethered.

I certainly hope that Trump's failure will 1. be accomplished and 2. take the wind out of their sails. But egads we are not in a good way right now.

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aggie08

aggie08 21431

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

We have to marginalize Fox News to the fringe and refuse to legitimize It’s “straight news” side. No seats in the White House Press room. No administration officials on the networks. Hopefully the loyal watchers will die off or go elsewhere 

They already are. Something called Newsmax. There will always be an outlet for them.

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LonghornSean

LonghornSean 3942

Posted
Posted (edited)

What a sad state of affairs Trump has created in this country. I remember after the election in 2016 I naively thought maybe he wouldn't be able to cause that much damage because he's such a moron. I really thought other republicans and people in power would keep his idiotic tendencies in check.  Sadly, the opposite has been true and he's spread his incredibly damaging mindset all over this nation.

Edited by LonghornSean
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