2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[Sawbonz 27398]

6 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

from the ny times...

 

 

(channeling my inner bt here) what does "suspicious" mean to you?  be honest.

illegals aren't going to vote.  but "brown" people will avoid voting places if they think they're going to be harassed, bullied, or intimidated, even if they're legal.  look at what's going on in this country.  you think it's that far out of whack for documented central/south american immigrants (or children of immigrants) to worry that they might be snatched out of line, detained, and "questioned" for a few hours while non-licensed militia types "confirm" their papers?  you think they're going to show up if they have a friend or family member staying at their place who might not be documented?

yeah, it's great to be white.  it's great to be able to just default to "i'm not worried because i have done nothing wrong and have nothing to worry about" mode.  but a lot of america doesn't think that way.   especially given the current climate in certain areas of the country.  like i said, the focus of these volunteers will be immigration, and their tactics will work.

Why do you think “brown” people will be intimidated into not voting? Have any of them been intimidated into not getting out and protesting?

[tantric superman 4667]

2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

All of it is conjecture.

Not going to do your research for you.  Google and you'll find a number of research papers and surveys showing that white people are questioned at rates of about half of what brown and people are at polls.  So you claims of conjecture are just lazy bullshit.

A good honest "I don't give a fuck" or "it's actually not that big a deal for me to give a fuck" at least is more honest and intellectually respectable than "it's all conjecture".

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

All of it is conjecture.

First, there is no evidence of this happening. You provided a hearsay example and applied it to the Republican Party as a whole as a planned tactic/strategy. Second, if they feel intimated, they can vote by mail. Dems pushed for this, so why not use it? Third, you are full of shit. There will be plenty of white people voting for Biden that will show up to the polls. You could say that the majority of Dem voters will be white, and as far as I know, the weight of their vote is the same as a minority vote. Last, aren’t there claims that Dems provide free transport and bussing to minority voters to vote for Obama and Hillary? The Washington Post did a story on this, so it must be true. Hillary won the popular vote pretty handily in 2016. She just didn’t win the right states because she couldn’t assess her own likability.

Put down the conspiracy pipe. Voter apathy is the largest hurdle to overcome, regardless of skin color.

hmm, ok.  how do i say this thoughtfully and judiciously, and leave emotion out of it...get the entire fuck out of here with your nonsense-coated horseshit.

it isn't conjecture.  republicans have been suppressing the vote or at least trying their hardest to for a long time.  this is their goal, and they're not being shy or cagey about it.  they know that the more people vote, the worse it is for republicans.  but don't believe me...

 

and if you don't believe him (why would you?), then maybe his advisors will say something different...

In leaked audio, a top Trump adviser said the Republican party has 'traditionally' relied on voter suppression

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-audio-trump-adviser-republicans-rely-voter-suppression-justin-clark-2019-12

 

they're closing voting places (see milwaukee) in important swingy urban areas, and there are multiple other instances (atlanta, cough).  they're fucking with the voting rights act.  why do you think that is?  they tried like hell (based on some old bullshit gop memo leaked after the dude died) to get strong-armed intimidation-styled immigration questions included on the 2020 census to help with redistricting - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/08/trump-administration-has-changed-its-story-census-citizenship-question-least-times-four-months/

also here's 33 pages from this very website if you don't want to take my word for it:

 

so where does that leave us?

you said i was full of shit, and then told me white people would be voting for biden.  well, you got me there.  then you said white votes count the same.  nailed me again.  typically when people tell me i'm full of shit, they then present a fact contradicting something i've said.  this makes the "full of shit accusation" land a little better.  just some advice for next time. 

you tell me people should use vote by mail.  i'm sure those who can, will, but it's not like some smooth transition in every state, especially when the president is railing against it multiple times a day.  this is a signal to governors and state legs.  not everyone will be able to.  that said, i have no doubt that plenty of folks of all colors will wait in line all day if it means they can cast a vote to send president fuckface + family back to new york florida.

and yes, i agree, voter apathy is a huge issue.  we don't need 50,000 volunteers targeting suspicious looking voters in 15 important swingy areas to make the problem any worse.  there are obviously already people who don't even consider this a serious issue.  put that in your conspiracy pipe and smoke it.

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

15 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Why do you think “brown” people will be intimidated into not voting? Have any of them been intimidated into not getting out and protesting?

are you asking about "black" people, or "brown" people?

the census memo bullshit was all i needed to know about the gop approach and central/south americans' reaction to it (there are a bunch of interviews from that story if you'd like me to find them).  it doesn't take much to get frightened people to disengage with any and all parts of the process, be it census, voting, anything.  you think kids in cages and ice raids are no big thing as long as you've got your paperwork in order?  these people have seen shit close up and want no part of it.

[Sawbonz 27398]

@henrygandorf

Do you really think voter intimidation is going to swing this election to trump?

Edited August 3, 2020 by Sawbonz

[jimmyjazz 45546]

2 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

You are usually a reasonable person spanky,

That's not true at all.  He USED to be reasonable. Things have changed.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

13 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Not going to do your research for you.  Google and you'll find a number of research papers and surveys showing that white people are questioned at rates of about half of what brown and people are at polls.  So you claims of conjecture are just lazy bullshit.

It'snot conjecture. It's lying.  This is how it works now, just like Trump talks about how mail-in voting will be riddled with fraud, but absentee voting is good.  Trump knows there is almost zero fraud with mail-in  voting, and spanky knows what has been shown to be true is not conjecture.  They both just throw out chaff to distract from the truth.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

@henrygandorf

Do you really think voter intimidation is going to swing this election to trump?

I'm not henry, and no doubt we're both grateful for that, but why on earth would it matter if an undemocratic and illegal intimidation tactic is immediately successful?  If they keep sharpening the blade, eventually it will become suitable for killing.

[Sawbonz 27398]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not henry, and no doubt we're both grateful for that, but why on earth would it matter if an undemocratic and illegal intimidation tactic is immediately successful?  If they keep sharpening the blade, eventually it will become suitable for killing.

Or they will lose and the people that win will take measures to ensure those intimidation tactics are curtailed and appropriately punished going forward.

[The Dog 43792]

Y'all know Democrats do some pretty dirty shit too, right? 

 

Everyone's hands are filthy from this stuff. Nobody is clean.

[SilasCoade 2620]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

Y'all know Democrats do some pretty dirty shit too, right? 

 

Everyone's hands are filthy from this stuff. Nobody is clean.

No, I don't know that Democrats also attempt to suppress the vote. Bussing registered voters to their polling place is something we SHOULD be doing. Harassing brown people in line to vote at their polling place SHOULD be a felony. We are not the same.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Y'all know Democrats do some pretty dirty shit too, right? 

 

Everyone's hands are filthy from this stuff. Nobody is clean.

Ah.  There it is.  #bothsides

[henrygandorf 29174]

15 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

@henrygandorf

Do you really think voter intimidation is going to swing this election to trump?

no.  luckily, he's that terrible and people hate him.  he's also historically shitty at being president.

doesn't make any of this ok.

[The Dog 43792]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Ah.  There it is.  #bothsides

You know I'm right. I'm not guessing.

and I'm not saying that what the Republicans do is right either, or that it's not worse. 

Don't be that guy.

Edited August 3, 2020 by The Dog

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Just now, The Dog said:

You know I'm right. I'm not guessing.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  Bring it.

[The Dog 43792]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  Bring it.

OK you are right. Democrats are squeaky clean. I don't have evidence, but I know people who have worked for the DNC. 

So it's all hearsay and they didn't elaborate, so you win. Congrats.

[The Dog 43792]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Both sides! The only thing trumpkins have left since their hero is an obvious Nazi scumbag. Its totally pathetic.

Like I’ve said, it is really hard to admit that you are in fact scum and support the destruction of the country. That’s why they can’t admit that’s what they are. That’s not my opinion either, it’s an objective fact.

Papers please.

I'm not a Trumpkin you idiot. I'm voting for Biden.

[JimmyJames 12271]

10 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Y'all know Democrats do some pretty dirty shit too, right? 

 

Everyone's hands are filthy from this stuff. Nobody is clean.

Both sides! The only thing trumpkins have left since their hero is an obvious Nazi scumbag. Its totally pathetic.

Like I’ve said, it is really hard to admit that you are in fact scum and support the destruction of the country. That’s why they can’t admit that’s what they are. That’s not my opinion either, it’s an objective fact.

Papers please.

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

OK you are right. Democrats are squeaky clean. I don't have evidence, but I know people who have worked for the DNC. 

So it's all hearsay and they didn't elaborate, so you win. Congrats.

Nobody said democrats were squeaky clean. And yes you have no evidence.

If you support trump though you are an American hating scumbag though. The facts are the facts. 

[jimmyjazz 45546]

3 minutes ago, The Dog said:

OK you are right. Democrats are squeaky clean. I don't have evidence, but I know people who have worked for the DNC. 

So it's all hearsay and they didn't elaborate, so you win. Congrats.

So it was bullshit.  

We were talking about vote suppression and voter intimidation, by the way.  I think it's reasonable to ask for something besides "I know someone who worked for the DNC".

[The Dog 43792]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

So it was bullshit.  

We were talking about vote suppression and voter intimidation, by the way.  I think it's reasonable to ask for something besides "I know someone who worked for the DNC".

And I'm not denying voter suppression. I'm saying the Democrats do dirty shit too. That's all. 

Chill.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Well hell, I don't think it's a big stretch to say that Democrats have done some dirty shit.  Undermining the fundamental tenets of our democracy is a bit of a stretch, though.

[TexArcher 37508]

It's like a defense attorney trying to get his client out of a murder charge by pointing out all the people who write hot checks.

[JimmyJames 12271]

5 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I'm not a Trumpkin you idiot. I'm voting for Biden.

Glad to hear it. I guess you fooled me. As you pointed out, not an impressive feat. 

[The Dog 43792]

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Glad to hear it. I guess you fooled me. As you pointed out, not an impressive feat. 

Saying the Democrats aren't clean isn't a stretch, and it isn't enough for me to avoid voting for any Democrat. And it doesn't mean I approve of anything the Republicans do either.

It's just an unfortunate reality of politics everywhere - not just here. It's a dirty business and always has been.

[SilasCoade 2620]

14 minutes ago, The Dog said:

OK you are right. Democrats are squeaky clean. I don't have evidence, but I know people who have worked for the DNC. 

So it's all hearsay and they didn't elaborate, so you win. Congrats.

Again, there is a difference between shady shit generally, campaign finance/foreign interference/whatever, and actively attacking not only the democratic process but American citizens.

[BradInATX 9208]

Are there poll watcher positions we can volunteer for in vulnerable locations where the Rs might try to pull crap? I would be happy to give up a vacation day for that if it would help. I have no idea how this sort of things works as I’ve never been active in either party. 

Pretty sure your mom knows a lot about pole watching. You could ask her.

[tantric superman 4667]

Ecclesiastes 7:20   

Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Which is to say that Dog is simply a King of Jerusalem, musing.

You motherfuckers need to show some respect.

[The Dog 43792]

3 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Ecclesiastes 7:20   

Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Which is to say that Dog is simply a King of Jerusalem, musing.

You motherfuckers need to show some respect.

Nah I'm just some idiot on a message board who should have kept his mouth shut.

[BradInATX 9208]

Y'all know Democrats do some pretty dirty shit too, right? 

 

Everyone's hands are filthy from this stuff. Nobody is clean.

Democrats are too wimpy to get their hands dirty and do what it takes to rid our country of Republican corruption and grift. That's sort of the rub.

 

Besides racism, their lack of marbles is the Republicans' biggest weapon. Look at how hard the Lincoln Project ads hit. It's not difficult to destroy the message that Trump is selling. It's just that Democrats suck at marketing.

 

#ImWithHer

[JimmyJames 12271]

Ok. Now that we’re all friends again here is what I’ve got to say.

Yes while we should all remain vigilant, the reality is trump will lose in November and if he doesn’t know it because he’s a psycho, his non psycho handlers do know it. Moscow Mitch sure does. He is done. 

So what happens then? While I understand the concerns of the he won’t leave crowd, I’ve dealt with people like trump before and they are ultimately cowards at heart, down to their core actually. He won’t fight. He will give up eventually.

However the damage he has already done to this country is simply incalculable. There will be a reckoning. To what extent and what it ultimately means is the great unknown.

[BradInATX 9208]

As the boomers die off the remaining riff raff will slink back to the race car tracks and country clubs from whence they hid previously, and we can all go on pretending they don't exist. It's good enough. This is a death throe of the Reagan generation and nothing more. The people who took this movement seriously and personally will be mocked and scorned by history and will be washed away by common sense and decency. The last four years will be seen as a misguided meme.

It's the only possible end game for an old money tacky new york TV personality who fooled stupid white trash into believing he cares about them.

The only unknown is the credibility hit we will take globally, but I think most of the world also knows this is a mistake that most of us can't wait to correct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tantric superman 4667]

16 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

However the damage he has already done to this country is simply incalculable. There will be a reckoning. To what extent and what it ultimately means is the great unknown.

Maybe if we all watched The Tudors we'd get some ideas.

[JimmyJames 12271]

10 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Maybe if we all watched The Tudors we'd get some ideas.

I have no idea what this means. Perhaps I’m a dumbass too.

[Mole 4320]

Start with 1985. That was his best season.

[Pancho 44454]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

And I'm not denying voter suppression. I'm saying the Democrats do dirty shit too. That's all. 

Chill.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13409]

Part of me wonders if trump is actually going to campaign or just go through the motions. Given covid and and the disastrous Tulsa rally, it might take a lot to get him to even attempt a large rally. It’s not a stretch that he will just claim the media is against him and more importantly fake votes will be counted. He and Mitch can look to push thru as many judges as possible over the next 6 months.

[SydneyCarton 47846]

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Ah.  There it is.  #bothsides

 

6 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Both sides! The only thing trumpkins have left since their hero is an obvious Nazi scumbag. Its totally pathetic.

Like I’ve said, it is really hard to admit that you are in fact scum and support the destruction of the country. That’s why they can’t admit that’s what they are. That’s not my opinion either, it’s an objective fact.

Papers please.

It amazes me the ability this place has to make smart people real fucking stupid, at least temporarily, or just myopic as fuck. And I’ve only been posting here a couple months. But I know @The Doghas been on all these threads, sharing articles and posting some insight (specifically about polling if I remember correctly) and has been railing on a Trump the entire time. He’s obviously a political junkie. He says one thing people here don’t like and literally he’s painting as a Trump follower and then a fucking Nazi within 5 posts. 
 

Jesus fucking christ. Are the democrats as dirty as the republicans? Almost assuredly not today. But they’re politicians so yeah, I’m sure they’re plenty dirty. I live next to Shelia Jackson Lee’s district. Let’s not pretend gerrymandering hasn’t gone the other way before. Tammany Hall and Chicago politics were/are  both Democratic institutions. We may need these people to step up and be Heroes of a sort right now, but let’s not make the mistake of believing most of them are actual heroes. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[Voldemort86 2259]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Part of me wonders if trump is actually going to campaign or just go through the motions. Given covid and and the disastrous Tulsa rally, it might take a lot to get him to even attempt a large rally. It’s not a stretch that he will just claim the media is against him and more importantly fake votes will be counted. He and Mitch can look to push thru as many judges as possible over the next 6 months.

What’s funny is Trump has supposedly tried or at least inquired about holding some Nuremberg rallies in battleground states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

those states all have Covid 19 rules in place which limit the capacity of crowd gatherings to something like 100 or less. I don’t know the exact number, but Trump has asked the governors of those states to waive that requirement and they always refuse. Ohio has a Republican Governor who has actually done a very good job with the pandemic, the other 3 states have democratic governors.

Trump and his administration really screwed up on this one. Supposedly, there is a rumor out there that Jared Kushner was put in charge of the group to lead the national response to the corona virus. He didn’t add anyone to his panel with a medical background, he chose people with business backgrounds who in his words ( get shit done). At the time, the coronavirus was ravaging only blue states and blue cities, so they all decided to not have a national strategy so that the Trump administration could politicize the virus and point the finger at how bad democrats messed up the response.

This strategy backfired big time because the virus had a resurgence in the summer due to dumb asses like Kemp, Detrumpis, hot wheels, and Ducey opening their states way too early against medical advice so that they could score “economic stats” for Trumps re-election. That’s literally all right wingers care about. They hypocritically hide in their houses to avoid the virus then wail and scream at people who don’t make as much money as they do who are doing the exact same thing.

these sick fucks deserve to lose everything. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Voldemort86

[SydneyCarton 47846]

48 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

What’s funny is Trump has supposedly tried or at least inquired about holding some Nuremberg rallies in battleground states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

those states all have Covid 19 rules in place which limit the capacity of crowd gatherings to something like 100 or less. I don’t know the exact number, but Trump has asked the governors of those states to waive that requirement and they always refuse. Ohio has a Republican Governor who has actually done a very good job with the pandemic, the other 3 states have democratic governors.

Trump and his administration really screwed up on this one. Supposedly, there is a rumor out there that Jared Kushner was put in charge of the group to lead the national response to the corona virus. He didn’t add anyone to his panel with a medical background, he chose people with business backgrounds who in his words ( get shit done). At the time, the coronavirus was ravaging only blue states and blue cities, so they all decided to not have a national strategy so that the Trump administration could politicize the virus and point the finger at how bad democrats messed up the response.

This strategy backfired big time because the virus had a resurgence in the summer due to dumb asses like Kemp, Detrumpis, hot wheels, and Ducey opening their states way too early against medical advice so that they could score “economic stats” for Trumps re-election. That’s literally all right wingers care about. They hypocritically hide in their houses to avoid the virus then wail and scream at people who don’t make as much money as they do who are doing the exact same thing.

these sick fucks deserve to lose everything. 

I mean, it’s more than a rumor. There was a huge article all about it this week in, I believe, vanity fair. Additionally, I remember back in April articles talking about his super team of business men getting shit done as well, we all just forgot about it. Because, you know, every day is a fucking vomitorium of media dumpage. Now, none of those things makes its true. But man there are a lot of fucking bread crumbs. 

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

This is the Magat campaign whisperer?

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by TheStoicPaisano

[TwiceHorn 31262]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:59 PM, Huckleberry said:

No it's not. Voter apathy is even more obvious in non-Presidential election years.

Oh, by the way, Clinton got a minority of the vote, too.

Yep, most apathetic voters don't understand the electoral college or its effect.  If they feel their vote is diluted or worthless, it's incorrectly on a popular basis:  "it's just one of hundreds of millions."

And I'd wager that "my vote doesn't count" isn't really the reason for voter apathy.  They just can't get unassed to vote.

Edited August 3, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Voldemort86 2259]

3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I mean, it’s more than a rumor. There was a huge article all about it this week in, I believe, vanity fair. Additionally, I remember back in April articles talking about his super team of business men getting shit done as well, we all just forgot about it. Because, you know, every day is a fucking vomitorium of media dumpage. Now, none of those things makes its true. But man there are a lot of fucking bread crumbs. 

That’s the thing I can’t stand about Trump and I hope I’m not the only one. The guy literally politicizes EVERYTHING. Would President Obama or President George W Bush have politicized the census, back to school, or used tried to use the Supreme Court to kill DACA in an effort to force the democrats to the negotiating table while simultaneously playing with countless innocent lives in the process?

this guy isn’t hitler or trump but he’s close. Most presidents want to make the US a better country for everyone, but Trump just wants to make it a better country for people like him and people who vote for him. Everyone else can go get fucked.

[SilasCoade 2620]

Just now, Voldemort86 said:

That’s the thing I can’t stand about Trump and I hope I’m not the only one. The guy literally politicizes EVERYTHING. Would President Obama or President George W Bush have politicized the census, back to school, or used tried to use the Supreme Court to kill DACA in an effort to force the democrats to the negotiating table while simultaneously playing with countless innocent lives in the process?

this guy isn’t hitler or trump but he’s close. Most presidents want to make the US a better country for everyone, but Trump just wants to make it a better country for people like him and people who vote for him. Everyone else can go get fucked.

he doesn't care about the people who vote for him. He has actively made it worse for them, they are just too stupid to realize it.

[Voldemort86 2259]

4 minutes ago, Llogg said:

he doesn't care about the people who vote for him. He has actively made it worse for them, they are just too stupid to realize it.

Can you imagine Trump “rubbing elbows” with his voters at his Florida resort?
 

all the Deep South redneck racists from Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Alabama would show up with buck teeth and disgusting unwashed clothes because most of them probably live in trailers or can’t afford washing machines. 
 

The Trump family would be grossed out by them and want them to leave ASAP. They would have nothing in common.

[tantric superman 4667]

11 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

I have no idea what this means. Perhaps I’m a dumbass too.

In The Tudors, when there was a reckoning, well, it was quite a reckoning.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

Drove through west Texas this weekend and saw a flag that said "Trump 2020: No More Bullshit".  So does that mean they think the first 4 years were bullshit?

[Red Five 40632]

Has any human in the history of the planet been more full of bullshit than Trump? 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13409]

Trump and his supporters don't understand the irony of still using MAGA as a slogan. While laughable I actually thought Trump was right to attempt to change the slogan to Keep America Great but that didn't seem to take off.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Trump and his supporters don't understand the irony of still using MAGA as a slogan. While laughable I actually thought Trump was right to attempt to change the slogan to Keep America Great but that didn't seem to take off.

I don't think they even know what it stands for anymore.  It's just a cult identifier.