2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

that's exactly right.  when they tried to kick off KAG i called it the end of the trump presidency.  all he knows is branding, and was tossing out one he'd invested in, and that his followers literally and figuratively invested in, and replaced it with an acronym that wasn't fun to say.  too bad they figured it out too and went back to MAGA. 

[jimmyjazz 45546]

5 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

It amazes me the ability this place has to make smart people real fucking stupid, at least temporarily, or just myopic as fuck. And I’ve only been posting here a couple months.

<snip>

Jesus fucking christ. Are the democrats as dirty as the republicans? Almost assuredly not today.

<snip>

Let’s not pretend gerrymandering hasn’t gone the other way before. 

I'm not sure why I got included in your rant, but I'll will plead guilty to both myopia and occasional stupidity, often fueled by ethanol.

I find gerrymandering as disgusting as you probably do, but let's at least acknowledge that it's legal.  It doesn't abridge an individual's right to vote, but it does attempt to alter the influence of various voting blocks. 

What the Republicans are trying to do now is abridge the rights of certain Americans' right to vote.  That is a giant step forward in chicanery.

[SydneyCarton 47847]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not sure why I got included in your rant, but I'll will plead guilty to both myopia and occasional stupidity, often fueled by ethanol.

I find gerrymandering as disgusting as you probably do, but let's at least acknowledge that it's legal.  It doesn't abridge an individual's right to vote, but it does attempt to alter the influence of various voting blocks. 

What the Republicans are trying to do now is abridge the rights of certain Americans' right to vote.  That is a giant step forward in chicanery.

I included you because yours was the first or one of the first posts following his, with the "Oh there it is, Both Sides!" I realize not everyone pays attention to folks avatars, but you're a sharp guy whos been around these boards for decades. Certainly you recognized a poster who's been frequenting all these conversations we've basically been having for months, usually in general agreement of one another, and decided to just accuse him of being a Trump guy and ignoring an entire body of posting history. Lets get Hugo in here and accuse him of being a republican next because he's from Louisiana and probably voter for a republican more than once. 

I've already addressed the political legal and illegal shit, and I'm not wasting my time on it any further in regards to your post. Yes, it's disgusting, what the rupublicans are doing is way worse, etc. The real point of my post was that I found the dogpile of, well, The Dog, for making one comment that isn't even untrue to be pretty fucking shitty. And more than shitty, it is the same mindless behavior we all love to ridicule on the right. "Hate Trump? FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING COMMUNIST!" "Think the democrats are also likely corrupt politicians? FUCK YOU FASCIST!" Isn't this the forum where we all talk about how the world is supposed to be able to disagree with one another and have discourse? And that the lack of that is what's wrong with society, among many other things? But yeah, nevermind, lets go back to calling the guy a fucking nazi. Personally, I'd like to keep the mindless mob mentality to the people I'd prefer to ridicule, not the ones that I generally agree with, but that's just me. Love me some moral superiority. 

I think we can all be a bit better than that...if nothing else, we can take posts within the context of posting history. I know we're fucking capable of doing that, because no one seems to forget a slight by ArmyBrat or Johnny Sack. Even when they're posting about fried chicken or fucking recruiting. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I included you because yours was the first or one of the first posts following his, with the "Oh there it is, Both Sides!" I realize not everyone pays attention to folks avatars, but you're a sharp guy whos been around these boards for decades. Certainly you recognized a poster who's been frequenting all these conversations we've basically been having for months, usually in general agreement of one another, and decided to just accuse him of being a Trump guy and ignoring an entire body of posting history. Lets get Hugo in here and accuse him of being a republican next because he's from Louisiana and probably voter for a republican more than once. 

I've already addressed the political legal and illegal shit, and I'm not wasting my time on it any further in regards to your post. Yes, it's disgusting, what the rupublicans are doing is way worse, etc. The real point of my post was that I found the dogpile of, well, The Dog, for making one comment that isn't even untrue to be pretty fucking shitty. And more than shitty, it is the same mindless behavior we all love to ridicule on the right. "Hate Trump? FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING COMMUNIST!" "Think the democrats are also likely corrupt politicians? FUCK YOU FASCIST!" Isn't this the forum where we all talk about how the world is supposed to be able to disagree with one another and have discourse? And that the lack of that is what's wrong with society, among many other things? But yeah, nevermind, lets go back to calling the guy a fucking nazi. Personally, I'd like to keep the mindless mob mentality to the people I'd prefer to ridicule, not the ones that I generally agree with, but that's just me. Love me some moral superiority. 

I think we can all be a bit better than that...if nothing else, we can take posts within the context of posting history. I know we're fucking capable of doing that, because no one seems to forget a slight by ArmyBrat or Johnny Sack. Even when they're posting about fried chicken or fucking recruiting. 

Sorry Sidney but you're way if here. The post that kicked this of was more soon to saying all lives matter in response to black lives matter. It's not false it's just completely beside the point and detracts from any real discussion about the issue. It's not a matter of moral superiority. 

[jimmyjazz 45546]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I included you because yours was the first or one of the first posts following his, with the "Oh there it is, Both Sides!" I realize not everyone pays attention to folks avatars, but you're a sharp guy whos been around these boards for decades. Certainly you recognized a poster who's been frequenting all these conversations we've basically been having for months, usually in general agreement of one another, and decided to just accuse him of being a Trump guy and ignoring an entire body of posting history.

While I certainly recognize his user name, I have zero recollection of the tenor of his political postings.  I don't believe I posted on this thread until the last couple of days.  (It's possible I did so weeks or months ago, but it's not a thread I pay much attention to.)

I also didn't accuse him of being "a Trump guy".  I just find the "both sides" angle to be overly simplistic and a roadblock to discussion.  It's like the idiots who justify Russian bounties on US soldiers with "you think we're so clean?"  No, I don't think we're clean.  I just know Putin would push back with force instead of roll over like a beta dog and pray for a belly rub.

I won't address the rest of your follow-on rant, because it's off point and largely hysterical.  This isn't a coffee clatch.

[henrygandorf 29174]

as for the both sides garbage, i’d be happy to read articles, watch videos, or hear leaked audio about dems suppressing the vote, so that i can see the other side of this. 

[G650 14086]

Christ you idiots are so willfully obtuse sometimes.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

Christ you idiots are so willfully obtuse sometimes.

[Dbeasy 14963]

The democratic supporters never acknowledge the significant flaws in their own party and the Republican supporters never acknowledge that they’ve become the worst of the two parties on almost every measure. Hence why there is so much harmony in the world right now.

[SydneyCarton 47847]

The guy made a throw away comment. And someone else said “both sides bullshit” and it’s spiraled to this. Which is absurd because that wasn’t what was happening in his post, someone else accused him of BothSides, and without and reflection this thread careens down the BothSides topic when it didn’t really apply at all. A bunch of greyhounds chasing a fabricated rabbit. 
 

fuck

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Apology accepted.

[The Dog 43792]

Sooo back to the campaign- it appears Joe is making a play for Texas: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-campaign-texas-staff-resources/

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

5 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Sooo back to the campaign- it appears Joe is making a play for Texas: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-campaign-texas-staff-resources/

That's some good news on a Monday morning.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Sooo back to the campaign- it appears Joe is making a play for Texas: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-campaign-texas-staff-resources/

Mr. Burns excellent gif/pic. 
 

This well help with the campaign to take the Texas house. Which is muy importante. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

3 months from today. let’s fucking go. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13410]

This election could be a huge opportunity for Dems across the nation. Ridiculously unpopular GOP president and a likable Dem candidate.  Add that this election will impact political district maps for the next decade, both parties have a lot to fight for.

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

I think everyone had written Ohio off due to recent trends but Biden has always polled well there so there's this:

 

[Guest Lobo]

That raises an interesting question...what State Houses/Senates around the nation could potentially flip this year...thus setting the table for redistricting upheavals?  I'm not terribly interested in Democrats capturing myriad state legislatures.  I know I'm a CR minority/Rex Kramer acolyte in this regard...but give me a split U.S. Congress, a pragmatic SCOTUS, and Donald Trump's head on a fucking spike.  When it comes to the States...they're big kids...let them plot their own way and let's all shut the fuck up about our neighbors.

[Ghost of LL 15477]

On 8/2/2020 at 4:51 AM, Spankytoes said:

Can you provide a link to where this has occurred, since there’s plenty of Republican precedent to choose from and all? (And how exactly do you know that they are Democrat voters? You’re basing this off of race?) Why would a legal citizen feel intimidated to not show up at the polls where they get to vote in private? Is there evidence to show that illegal immigrants have been deported as a tactic to dissuade legal citizens from voting? Where are you getting this data from?

Repeating conjecture often enough doesn’t make it true. My wife and I have several friends from Russia/Eastern bloc countries that have overstayed their visa. Neither of us have ever felt intimated to vote as registered Republicans in a heavily blue state. We would, however, feel intimidated if we wore MAGA hats to the polls. (Side note: Neither of us are Trump fans, that’s an example) What does skin color have to do with anything? Where are POC being intimated and/or denied their right to vote?

Enlighten me.

Are you not aware that the Republican Party has been under a federal consent decree arising from their demonstrated voter-suppression efforts?

16 minutes ago, Lobo said:

That raises an interesting question...what State Houses/Senates around the nation could potentially flip this year...thus setting the table for redistricting upheavals?  I'm not terribly interested in Democrats capturing myriad state legislatures.  I know I'm a CR minority/Rex Kramer acolyte in this regard...but give me a split U.S. Congress, a pragmatic SCOTUS, and Donald Trump's head on a fucking spike.  When it comes to the States...they're big kids...let them plot their own way and let's all shut the fuck up about our neighbors.

Aside from Texas?

North Carolina, Arizona, and Pennsylvania might be the big ones.  Democrats could flip both the House and Senate in those states.

Apart from that, the Minnesota and Florida Senates and the Iowa and Michigan Houses look like they could flip.

All would be very significant in breaking up Republican control of those states.

[gmr548 16491]

Drove through west Texas this weekend and saw a flag that said "Trump 2020: No More Bullshit".  So does that mean they think the first 4 years were bullshit?

Heh. I saw that flag in NW Houston suburbs a couple weeks ago. Like MAGA, terrible slogan for an incumbent.

[bolverk 29397]

35 minutes ago, Lobo said:

That raises an interesting question...what State Houses/Senates around the nation could potentially flip this year...thus setting the table for redistricting upheavals?  I'm not terribly interested in Democrats capturing myriad state legislatures.  I know I'm a CR minority/Rex Kramer acolyte in this regard...but give me a split U.S. Congress, a pragmatic SCOTUS, and Donald Trump's head on a fucking spike.  When it comes to the States...they're big kids...let them plot their own way and let's all shut the fuck up about our neighbors.

Yes, we should tend to our own Texas garden. That said, your logic on the partisan balance of the federal government should also be applied closer to home. I think you're only 4-5 years younger than me so for, essentially, your entire adult life, this has been a one-party state, and it's high time for it to become competitive again. A big part of that goal will be redistricting as Republicans have recently shown themselves to have created district maps that discriminate against minorities.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13410]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

That raises an interesting question...what State Houses/Senates around the nation could potentially flip this year...thus setting the table for redistricting upheavals?  I'm not terribly interested in Democrats capturing myriad state legislatures.  I know I'm a CR minority/Rex Kramer acolyte in this regard...but give me a split U.S. Congress, a pragmatic SCOTUS, and Donald Trump's head on a fucking spike.  When it comes to the States...they're big kids...let them plot their own way and let's all shut the fuck up about our neighbors.

I hear you that a split govt should be a great moderating force against both sides. However when McConnell refused to allow Obama to appoint a SCOTUS judge for close to a year, that ideal went out the window.  Mitch opened up Pandora's box with his move.

And the same thing could happen early next year with a Biden WH and a McConnell-led senate. There is zero reason to believe that McConnell would allow Biden to appoint a justice especially if the seat was a conservative justice. McConnell can easily justify any inaction because all he has to say is that he knows the GOP majority will vote No, therefore it's pointless to hold a hearings or votes.  He might allow a moderate justice to replace RBG but that is probably giving McConnell too much credit.

[Voldemort86 2259]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I hear you that a split govt should be a great moderating force against both sides. However when McConnell refused to allow Obama to appoint a SCOTUS judge for close to a year, that ideal went out the window.  Mitch opened up Pandora's box with his move.

And the same thing could happen early next year with a Biden WH and a McConnell-led senate. There is zero reason to believe that McConnell would allow Biden to appoint a justice especially if the seat was a conservative justice. McConnell can easily justify any inaction because all he has to say is that he knows the GOP majority will vote No, therefore it's pointless to hold a hearings or votes.  He might allow a moderate justice to replace RBG but that is probably giving McConnell too much credit.

I could be wrong, but I think the senate map in 2022 is awful for the GOP. They have pretty much no pickup opportunities. If the senate is close in numbers, McConnell would probably be shooting himself in the foot by obstructing a nominee of a newly elected president. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Voldemort86

[Nice Guy Eddie 13410]

4 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

I could be wrong, but I think the senate map in 2022 is awful for the GOP. They have pretty much no pickup opportunities. If the senate is close in numbers, McConnell would probably be shooting himself in the foot by obstructing a nominee of a newly elected president. 

Agree but that still gives McConnell 2 years to obstruct Biden. And a potential 5-3 or 5-2 majority for 2 sessions.

[gmr548 16491]

but give me a split U.S. Congress

Yeah, no. The GOP should not be allowed control of anything at the federal level right now, nor any time in the next generation, minimum.

[Voldemort86 2259]

Now Trump and his campaign are trying to change the rules of the game. AGAIN.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/510260-trump-campaign-manager-we-want-more-debates-against-biden-and-sooner

we’ve always had 3 presidential debates in the fall and 1 VP debate.

why does this fat fuck try to change everything? He’s trying to change the census, trying to change this. He has a total disregard for political norms and it’s annoying as hell.

[SydneyCarton 47847]

7 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

Now Trump and his campaign are trying to change the rules of the game. AGAIN.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/510260-trump-campaign-manager-we-want-more-debates-against-biden-and-sooner

we’ve always had 3 presidential debates in the fall and 1 VP debate.

why does this fat fuck try to change everything? He’s trying to change the census, trying to change this. He has a total disregard for political norms and it’s annoying as hell.

I mean, you know he wants more debates because he desperately needs Biden to fuck up and make a gaffe. As for the other part of your statement, I think you answered your own question. 

[The Dog 43792]

4 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

Now Trump and his campaign are trying to change the rules of the game. AGAIN.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/510260-trump-campaign-manager-we-want-more-debates-against-biden-and-sooner

we’ve always had 3 presidential debates in the fall and 1 VP debate.

why does this fat fuck try to change everything? He’s trying to change the census, trying to change this. He has a total disregard for political norms and it’s annoying as hell.

Actually he has a good point:

Quote

A handful of states are slated to begin voting before the first scheduled debate on Sept. 29. In North Carolina, Florida, Pennsylvania and Michigan, for instance, officials will start mailing out absentee ballots before the end of September.

I don't think it's an unreasonable request to have at least one debate before those states send out their mail in or absentee ballots. If we're going to start voting as early as mid-September then we need to think about the impact to the debate schedule in the future. There's little incentive for Biden to agree to this right now so it's probably not going to happen anyway.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13410]

28 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

Now Trump and his campaign are trying to change the rules of the game. AGAIN.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/510260-trump-campaign-manager-we-want-more-debates-against-biden-and-sooner

we’ve always had 3 presidential debates in the fall and 1 VP debate.

why does this fat fuck try to change everything? He’s trying to change the census, trying to change this. He has a total disregard for political norms and it’s annoying as hell.

When you can't win the game, change the rules so that you can. Regardless Trump doesn't want 1 debate much less 5. Instead he wants Biden to refuse so that Trump can say biden is afraid.

I wouldn't put it past Trump to get someone infected with COVID and have that person attempt to hover around Biden at the debate. Biden getting COVID is the biggest wildcard out there.

[WBT 20415]

We haven't always had 3 debates.  There have been elections with 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 debates since televised debates began in 1960.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Trump doesn't want earlier debates.  He wants to create the illusion that Biden is scared to debate.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I wouldn't put it past Trump to get someone infected with COVID and have that person attempt to hover around Biden at the debate. Biden getting COVID is the biggest wildcard out there.

Trump can do that but Biden, at least, is not obese. If all the previous GOP screw-ups didn't teach them a lesson, if that didn't backfire spectacularly in a Brad Parscale Star Wars karma, then we are all doomed anyway.

[Red Five 40632]

I hadn't thought about it, but Biden will have debated both of our generation's greatest minds. The Dotard and Sarah Palin. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

this election isn’t about the differences between biden and trump, it’s a referendum on the trump presidency. after 3.5 years, if you need a debate to decide whether you want 4 more years of this, then you should be living in a room with padded walls with limited access to sharp objects. 

trump is flailing and desperate. because he fucking should be. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13410]

9 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

this election isn’t about the differences between biden and trump, it’s a referendum on the trump presidency. after 3.5 years, if you need a debate to decide whether you want 4 more years of this, then you should be living in a room with padded walls with limited access to sharp objects. 

trump is flailing and desperate. because he fucking should be. 

100%. Biden could easily take the path that the debates are pointless, and that the American public has all of the information they need on both candidates. But there is a chance that doesn't go over well with some voters. And while it may not impact Biden's chances, Biden is looking to have long coattails in November. He needs to debate even if it continues to show how bad Trump is.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

100%. Biden could easily take the path that the debates are pointless, and that the American public has all of the information they need on both candidates. But there is a chance that doesn't go over well with some voters. And while it may not impact Biden's chances, Biden is looking to have long coattails in November. He needs to debate even if it continues to show how bad Trump is.

We literally had an argument on this site a few weeks back when people stated that Trump "won" the debates against Hillary because he won the electoral college.

I can't fight that kind of stupidity.  

A debate is not going to change anyone's mind.  Biden should gladly accept the challenge, any time, any where, however often.  The "results" are baked in for true believers, the actual debates don't matter.

[Snake Diggity 4614]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

100%. Biden could easily take the path that the debates are pointless, and that the American public has all of the information they need on both candidates. But there is a chance that doesn't go over well with some voters. And while it may not impact Biden's chances, Biden is looking to have long coattails in November. He needs to debate even if it continues to show how bad Trump is.

He needs to debate, but only according to the originally/previously agreed-to schedule.  
 

There is almost zero upside for Biden in debating.  He has Trump on the ropes and desperate.  There is no knockout punch, unless he thinks he can trick Trump into saying the N word or admitting a felony.  Biden’s best bet is to wait this out, stay as quiet as possible, work behind the scenes to ensure a fair election and peaceful transition, and continue to let Trump lose.

[henrygandorf 29174]

biden should absolutely debate, but it won't matter.

because much like santa claus, the easter bunny, and the male-friendly lesbian, the undecided voter is a figment of your fucking imagination.

[safe sex 11678]

I'm a male-friendly lesbian.

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

10 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

I'm a male-friendly lesbian.

 

apologies, it's a movie quote.

[SydneyCarton 47847]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

apologies, it's a movie quote.

Show her the picture. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32318]

 

 

 

[Francisco 2.0 32318]

 

 

[safe sex 11678]

31 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

Omg I can't believe I forgot about this scene. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

Black seniors had their bus turned around on the way to vote in Georgia 2 years ago. 
 
Black voters ordered off bus
 
 
6 hour wait at to vote in the democratic primary at Texas Southern University (2% of the student body is white) in March:
6 hour wait

 
The new data support perhaps the worst-case scenario offered by opponents of restrictive voting laws. Nine percent of black respondents and 9 percent of Hispanic respondents indicated that, in the last election, they (or someone in their household) were told that they lacked the proper identification to vote. Just 3 percent of whites said the same. Ten percent of black respondents and 11 percent of Hispanic respondents reported that they were incorrectly told that they weren’t listed on voter rolls, as opposed to 5 percent of white respondents.
Voter Suppression is Warping Democracy

So the issue in Houston was on election day. But correct me if I am wrong, but early voting was for 2 weeks prior, correct? So maybe if more people went and voted early, the election day lines would be less.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

i don't think these people will be "official" in any capacity.  and i don't think they'll be close to the front of the line.
we voted in west hollywood, it took 2 hours, and we were behind a couple hundred people.  we were a few blocks from the front (and this was before proper social distancing).  it would be very easy to spook people 100-500 people deep without many people knowing, certainly nobody who's an official volunteer at that voting place.

Again, why do people wait until election day? If your state has early voting, go do that.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19093]

Sooo back to the campaign- it appears Joe is making a play for Texas: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-campaign-texas-staff-resources/

As he should. Texas is in play.

[Firemans4Horn 17827]

11 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

On 8/2/2020 at 3:39 PM, henrygandorf said:

i don't think these people will be "official" in any capacity.  and i don't think they'll be close to the front of the line.
we voted in west hollywood, it took 2 hours, and we were behind a couple hundred people.  we were a few blocks from the front (and this was before proper social distancing).  it would be very easy to spook people 100-500 people deep without many people knowing, certainly nobody who's an official volunteer at that voting place.

Read more  

Again, why do people wait until election day? If your state has early voting, go do that.

Feel free to link any majority republican precincts with 6+ hour lines to vote. 
 

Every American of voting age should be able to vote in a reasonable time frame even if it’s Election Day. 

[Texaspython 231]

3 hours ago, The Dog said:

Actually he has a good point:

I don't think it's an unreasonable request to have at least one debate before those states send out their mail in or absentee ballots. If we're going to start voting as early as mid-September then we need to think about the impact to the debate schedule in the future. There's little incentive for Biden to agree to this right now so it's probably not going to happen anyway.

I’d only agree to debate if my opponent actually debated. There is no reason to debate Trump.