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Are you going to hell?

bolverk

By bolverk
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GhostOfTomJoad

GhostOfTomJoad 9306

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I'm afraid my wife & I are about to enter a hellish situation. Her mom (70, no pics) became a born again evangelical about 40 years ago. She hasn't been too pushy about it over the course of our marriage & although I'm sure that's about to change. She's going to an ordained minister (Beth Shalom, fwiw) in a month or two & we've got a sinking feeling one of the first things she's going to insist upon is a baptizing the whole immediate family. My wife & I will be the only hold outs (wife is spiritual, not religious; I left behind Lutheran upbringings 35 years ago). Wife's sister & brother & their families are fashionable holly rollers so we'll no doubt be seen as infidels. 

If push comes to shove I'm guessing my wife will allow her mom to baptize her not as an act of contrition, but as a loving testament to her bond with her mother. If you don't believe it's just water & words, right? And I could be the "bigger man" & just go with the flow, pretend, & not make waves. But I've got a real issue with people--especially family--attempting to force the arrogance of their beliefs upon anyone. Growing up amongst predominantly Scandinavians in MN the attitude towards religion was that it was rude to ask anyone what they believed/worshipped. It's none of your business. Live and let live, etc. 

Fuck it, Odin promised to rid the world of Ice Giants and he's been a man/god of his word. Gimme a flagon of mead & I'll meet you in Valhalla.

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Tom

Tom 2959

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Out of all of the things in the Christian bible, the concept of hell is what really turned me off from the religion.  The idea that a permanent, never ending, eternal torture and suffering was waiting for any one person, much less the majority of people born according to the Bible, does not align with a supposed "merciful and loving" God.  Temporary suffering and agony, like a purgatory to pay off your sins?  Sure.  Just ceasing to exist and not getting into paradise?  Sounds good and believable.  But this idea that a self-described father figure could send billions of his children to writhe in agony forever and ever not only sounds like complete B.S., it sounds like a father figure not deserving of praise and worship.  I mean, could any of you as a father imagine sending any son or daughter, regardless of what they may have done, to endlessly suffer and be tortured?  You can't.  Yet we supposedly have a loving father in Heaven that will do exactly that just because you questioned a book that was written from handed down stories thousands of years ago.

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seven

seven 1366

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Dad's side of the family are church of christ cultists, told my mom that her and her parents were going to hell for not being church of christ cultists. 

My mom's side is all new agey spiritual types and their gatherings are much more enjoyable. 

I settled on atheism pretty young (grade school) and used to be one of those militant assholes regarding religion but I'm much more live and let live now. 

Edited by seven
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DixonHur

DixonHur 11154

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I don't believe in heaven or hell, but I always figured if they did exist, hell would be a lot better.  I mean the only one saying it sucks is good, but he has an incentive to make it seem crappy so people will want to come to his party instead.  

But what's the devil's incentive to make hell a bad place?  He's pissed at god for casting him out, so wouldn't he want hell to be a bad ass place to show up god?  I picture heaven as your grandma's tea party, whereas hell is a bad ass party with strippers and alcohol/drug fueled orgies.

Edited by DixonHur
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Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday 198

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What does it matter?  Nearly every religion thinks it's the only one that should exist.  Quick search shows 20 major religions and many subsets off of each one.

If you aren't a part of the "tribe" or chosen people or grafted in, you are going to hell.  If you aren't muslim, you're an infidel and going to hell.  If you aren't southern Baptist, Methodist, church of Christ, you're all wrong and going to hell. If you aren't blah, blah, blah, you're going to hell.

Why focus on such a fear based motivation tool to change humanity or save souls?

 

Edited by Doc Holliday
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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3432

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I was raised Catholic and practiced well into my 40's.  Got remarried at 36 and had some more kids.  Frankly I've got better things to do on a Sunday Morning (or for Catholics Saturday evening, Sunday afternoon, or Sunday night-they really offer a lot of mass times-as a student I remember attending many a 10PM mass to squeak it in before midnight).

There is a traditional element to at least the Catholic faith that was pretty nice growing up, since a lot of the church holidays were accompanied by actual holidays where family  gatherings would take place and would coincide with goods times along with some hunting and fishing.  The whole thing was not in your face it was just something that you did.

My last two kids are not formally baptized, but I did splash them with some holy water a few times just to make sure I had my bases covered. Really the only reason I would have them get religious instruction would be so that they understand a few things and give them some actual historical religious perspective so that later on in life, perhaps if times get tough, they won't fall in with some some cult or young earth crowd-think of it like having them take a gun safety course for the sole purpose of them being able to recognize who is being an idiot with a gun.

As for God, the universe is a big place, and somehow it got made by some force, so I keep an open mind as to a "higher power" 

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11154

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4 minutes ago, RPM said:

And it's tax free

Um, it's filled with libtards and commies, so...

 

18 minutes ago, Doc Holliday said:

What does it matter?  Nearly every religion thinks it's the only one that should exist.  Quick search shows 20 major religions and many subsets off of each one.

If you aren't a part of the "tribe" or chosen people or grafted in, you are going to hell.  If you aren't muslim, you're an infidel and going to hell.  If you aren't southern Baptist, Methodist, church of Christ, you're all wrong and going to hell. If you aren't blah, blah, blah, you're going to hell.

Why focus on such a fear based motivation tool to change humanity or save souls?

 

And those are just the current ones.  Imagine all the religions that have gone belly up.  I mean what happened to all the dead Egyptians, Greeks, etc.?

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

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I taught at a school in West Texas and the principal would often lead us in prayer. What irked me was he was a member od a denomination that believed you were going to hell if you had not been baptised in their church. I am going to hell, but lay off my kids.

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bolverk

bolverk 29394

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I kind of like the idea of a pantheon where the various gods are constantly fucking with us, each other, and nature. That sort of chaos certainly seems to be more reflective of our reality, so bring on the old gods.

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Kringelbert Fishtybuns

Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943

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10 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Otherwise, my perspective is that we all go to the same place when we die. If heaven and hell must be conceived as "places", they are the same place. And we all will end up there. It is our experience of that place, assimilation into the divinity, that differentiates.

I grew up with both Southern Baptist and Catholic parents, but the Southern Baptists won out.  The more descriptions I got of Southern Baptist heaven, the more I imagined it as a fucking Sunday Potluck that never fucking ended.  Fat pompous mother fuckers, snouts whistling while shoving mounds of over greased food where the only seasoning is salt down their gullets, "fellow-shipping" by pontificating nonstop about the heathen world around them or nodding in ascension. This would be my idea of hell.  I may have to start praying for eternal purgatory. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45491

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27 minutes ago, Doc Holliday said:

What does it matter?  Nearly every religion thinks it's the only one that should exist.  Quick search shows 20 major religions and many subsets off of each one.

If you aren't a part of the "tribe" or chosen people or grafted in, you are going to hell.  If you aren't muslim, you're an infidel and going to hell.  If you aren't southern Baptist, Methodist, church of Christ, you're all wrong and going to hell. If you aren't blah, blah, blah, you're going to hell.

Why focus on such a fear based motivation tool to change humanity or save souls?

 

Because it's about control, not saving souls.

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Doc Holliday

Doc Holliday 198

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2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I kind of like the idea of a pantheon where the various gods are constantly fucking with us, each other, and nature. That sort of chaos certainly seems to be more reflective of our reality, so bring on the old gods.

Chaos only occurs through fear and the duality of man, gods, religion, etc. cannot be forgotten.  Fear doesn't work if there isn't Love.  Love doesn't work unless there is Fear.  Take both out and you have a void.   Not to mention, that these arguments are still based on an emotional response or reaction and emotions are fallible.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104537

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Well, I've always wanted to go to heaven.

But now I'm told that it will be full of people like Falwell and Robert Jeffress.

No thanks.

I bet the music's better in Hell, anyway.  Hendrix, sinners like Hank Williams....yeah, make my reservation for Hell.

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EvilCaseMcCoy

EvilCaseMcCoy 691

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I'm convinced that we live in a nonlinear timeline, where the lives we live cycle over and over again in an infinite amount of alternate dimensions.

I'm not sold on organized religion.  The churches I've been to have been judgmental and hypocritical atmospheres that don't bring me comfort.  

I do believe in God.  I believe God is the collective universe that includes all living things and it is impacted by how people behave and treat others.  We are responsible for creating our own heaven and hell.  

 

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Patricio Swayze

Patricio Swayze 17058

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The idea God needs you to submit to and worship him is a very human narcissistic character flaw. If there’s a heaven, surely God is above such nonsense.


I’ll say it, he sounds like a major asshole. He, an omniscient being, allegedly makes imperfect creatures who break his bullshit rules, which he must have known would happen. Then they are told if they constantly suck his three headed cock, they will get into this magical place and live happily ever after.

Sure.
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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

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1 hour ago, Jiggy-Z said:

As for God, the universe is a big place, and somehow it got made by some force, so I keep an open mind as to a "higher power" 

that's kind of where i am.  i'm certainly not going to say there is or is not an overarching principle, say, but i'm very uncomfortable with humanizing such a concept.

it's perfectly reasonable to think the whole shebang is just an incident involving some stuff floating around, but what bothers me about that is explaining coincidence.  i've encountered a staggering number of coincident occurrences that defy logic.  at some point i have to say i just don't know and am perfectly happy to say so.

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F250

F250 28674

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39 minutes ago, Doc Holliday said:

If I have holy water, can I baptize my dogs?  Or does it not even matter since.....all dogs go to heaven?

Do you even St. Francis, bro? Our dog gets sprinkled annually during the feast of St. Francis.

article-2541325-1ABE3F9F00000578-777_634

 

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Bat Guano

Bat Guano 359

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11 hours ago, ndawg said:

It never bothered me until it really dawned on me that I was going to die eventually.

Now, I don't think of death as being frightening, but it is incredibly depressing and panic-attack-inducing. It's frightening to think my life could be completely cut short, and everything I aim to achieve or explore will never be even a possibility.

You and I are going to be erased. That shit cuts deep, man.

If it really bothers you, there's an app for that. No, seriously: https://www.wecroak.com/

All it does is remind you, 5 times a day at random times, that you're going to die. Then there's a pithy quote about death, or how to properly value your life while you have it, or some such semi-uplifting claptrap (actually some of them are pretty good). It's based on the Bhutanese idea that you should contemplate death 5 times a day. I thought it was silly at first, but after a few days it sort of worms its way into your brain, and really helps reconcile you to the idea that you're going to die, there's not a damn thing you can do about it, so you might as well get used to it. It probably won't be as bad as you think, either. If you're really as bothered by the concept of death as your post indicates, I think it would help.

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

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22 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:

remind you, 5 times a day at random times, that you're going to die.

memento mori was the latin reminder that we all must die.  funerary architecture of old often included skulls and other such reminders.

memento mori photography was a victorian practice of post-mortem photography, often with the goal to deceive that the departed was being photographed still alive.  sometimes families would lose a child, say, and realize there was no photo to remind of how the child looked.  they might dress up a grim brother or sister to stand with the propped and posed child and the photographer would later try to draw eyes on the departed.  sometimes that didn't come out very well.

stuffyoushouldknow-14-2014-01-bereavemen

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8547

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I've always wanted to go to heaven.

But now I'm told that it will be full of people like Falwell and Robert Jeffress.

No thanks.

I bet the music's better in Hell, anyway.  Hendrix, sinners like Hank Williams....yeah, make my reservation for Hell.

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18186

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For those of you who don’t believe in Hell, I ask the following: if there is no Hell, where do you propose Satan lives?  And where do you think Jesus spent the three days between His death and resurrection, if not the fiery underworld of Hell?

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104537

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Just now, BrickHorn said:

For those of you who don’t believe in Hell, I ask the following: if there is no Hell, where do you propose Satan lives?  And where do you think Jesus spent the three days between His death and resurrection, if not the fiery underworld of Hell?

 

College Station.

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longhorndude

longhorndude 146

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For those of you who don’t believe in Hell, I ask the following: if there is no Hell, where do you propose Satan lives?  And where do you think Jesus spent the three days between His death and resurrection, if not the fiery underworld of Hell?
 


There is no hell and there was no zombie Jesus. He was just dead like we will all be someday.
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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18186

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1 minute ago, longhorndude said:

 


There is no hell and there was no zombie Jesus. He was just dead like we will all be someday.

 

If that is true, then how do you explain the fact that Jesus actually came back to life and that the righteous enter the Kingdom of God?

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sheeeit

sheeeit 129

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12 hours ago, bolverk said:

As background, my father was raised Southern Baptist, and my mother was raised Church of Christ. When they got married my mom adopted the Southern Baptist tradition.

My mom's mom (grandma) believed that her daughter (my mom) was going to hell for switching from Church of Christ to Southern Baptist, simply for accepting the use of musical instruments as part of a worship service. She even went so far as to condemn my older sister and me to hell for also being raised Southern Baptist and letting the Devil's instruments be a part of our church experience. This isn't a joke: she directly told me as much.

The point is that, early on, I've been told by close family members that I was bound to an eternity of suffering and hell-fire.

Growing up in the Southern Baptist church had its challenges. For one, I recall the fire and brimstone speeches. For another, I remember the rank hypocrisy associated with "just ask for forgiveness and you'll be saved" which led to the attitude of "do what you want and ask for forgiveness later." One of the most striking moments was when the Youth Minister demonstrated souls going to hell by turning a lit candle upside down to show that each wax drop was a soul going to hell.

What shook me out of it was an evening when I went to a county fair with a few "weird" friends and being confronted by the most sanctimonious asshole you could ever imagine. He was a couple years older and was a Youth Minister wannabe. He put his arm around my shoulder and tried to lead me away from my friends when he asked me "I see the people you associate with. If you were to die tonight, would you know where you were headed?" Obviously, my friends didn't meet his specs and, therefore, my everlasting soul was at risk. I told him "no and neither do you." It should go without saying that I wanted to hit him (plus, his name was "Taft"), but the line of questioning was so unexpected and bizarre that I just walked away.

So, yeah, that was the moment I decided that organized religion wasn't for me. Over time, the entire notion of God and religion became an anathema, which held, at most, a slight superstition over my actions. Today, I'm happy to report as "God free."

Unfortunately, now, I have my two aging parents who both believe that I'm going directly to hell. While I obviously don't agree, it hurts to know that they believe themselves to be failures and to also think that I somehow deserve eternal condemnation. The craziest part of it is my stated beliefs and not my actions. I could go rob a bank tomorrow, kill a couple customers, and then have a deathbed conversion. Then, they'd think I was worthy of God's love. Instead, I'll go to work tomorrow, doing something that I believe helps our society, and will be promptly condemned to eternal damnation and suffering.

So, how many people think you're going to hell?

Wow.  That really sucks.  No wonder you have a harsh feeling for organized religion.  I absolutely loathe people that act like that.

Like some above said, just try and let it go.  Try to remember that the religious stuff they say to you is about them and not you.  Their religion sort of makes them reach out to you.  And, of course, they love you.  

If someone wants to find hypocrisy and illogicalness then religion is a freaking gold mine.  Religion can screw some people up and it can have a profound positive impact on others.  

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