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Are you going to hell?

bolverk

By bolverk
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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3509

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41 minutes ago, yaqdum said:

memento mori was the latin reminder that we all must die.  funerary architecture of old often included skulls and other such reminders.

memento mori photography was a victorian practice of post-mortem photography, often with the goal to deceive that the departed was being photographed still alive.  sometimes families would lose a child, say, and realize there was no photo to remind of how the child looked.  they might dress up a grim brother or sister to stand with the propped and posed child and the photographer would later try to draw eyes on the departed.  sometimes that didn't come out very well.

stuffyoushouldknow-14-2014-01-bereavemen

Weekend at Bernice's?

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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23 minutes ago, longhorndude said:

 


If you honestly think that happened then we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

Most seem to ignore that Easter is actually based on an old Pagan tradition of celebrating fertility, it was incorporated into modern Christianity...

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4097

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36 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

For those of you who don’t believe in Hell, I ask the following: if there is no Hell, where do you propose Satan lives?  And where do you think Jesus spent the three days between His death and resurrection, if not the fiery underworld of Hell?

 

Loaded questions.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18447

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17 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

So the bible sins?

Of course not.  The Bible cannot sin.  It is perfect.  Also, it’s a book so it doesn’t even have reproductive organs, much less deploy them in an ungodly way.

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Jersey Man10

Jersey Man10 3801

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Life After Death?

Does something inside us, like a soul or a spirit, survive the death of the body? Consider how the first man, Adam, came to have life. The Bible states: “God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life.” (Genesis 2:7) Though breathing sustained his life, putting “the breath of life” into his nostrils involved much more than simply blowing air into his lungs. It meant that God put into Adam’s lifeless body the spark of life​—“the force of life,” which is active in all earthly creatures. (Genesis 6:17; 7:22) The Bible refers to this animating force as “spirit.” (James 2:26) That spirit can be compared to the electric current that activates a machine or an appliance and enables it to perform its function. Just as the current never takes on the features of the equipment it activates, the life-force does not take on any of the characteristics of the creatures it animates. It has no personality and no thinking ability.

What happens to the spirit when a person dies? Psalm 146:4 says: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” When a person dies, his impersonal spirit does not go on existing in another realm as a spirit creature. It “returns to the true God who gave it.” (Ecclesiastes 12:7) This means that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God.

The ancient Greek philosophers Socrates and Plato held that a soul inside a person survives death and never dies. What does the Bible teach about the soul? Adam “came to be a living soul,” says Genesis 2:7. He did not receive a soul; he was a soul​—a whole person. The Scriptures speak of a soul’s doing work, craving food, being kidnapped, experiencing sleeplessness, and so forth. (Leviticus 23:30; Deuteronomy 12:20; 24:7; Psalm 119:28) Yes, man himself is a soul. When a person dies, that soul dies.​—Ezekiel 18:4.

What, then, is the condition of the dead? When pronouncing sentence upon Adam, God stated: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Where was Adam before God formed him from the dust of the ground and gave him life? Why, he simply did not exist! When he died, Adam returned to that state of complete absence of life. The condition of the dead is made clear at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, where we read: “The dead know nothing . . . In the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.” (New International Version) Scripturally, death is a state of nonexistence. The dead have no awareness, no feelings, no thoughts.

Unending Torment or Common Grave?

Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment where the wicked suffer after death. What, then, is hell? Examining what happened to Jesus after he died helps to answer that question. The Bible writer Luke recounts: “Neither was [Jesus] forsaken in Hades [hell, King James Version] nor did his flesh see corruption.” (Acts 2:31) Where was the hell to which even Jesus went? The apostle Paul wrote: “I handed on to you . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures.” (1 Corinthians 15:3, 4) So Jesus was in hell, the grave, but he was not abandoned there, for he was raised up, or resurrected.

Consider also the case of the righteous man Job, who suffered much. Wishing to escape his plight, he pleaded: “Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell [sheol], and hide me till thy wrath pass?” (Job 14:13, Douay Version) How unreasonable to think that Job desired to go to a fiery-hot place for protection! To Job, “hell” was simply the grave, where his suffering would end. The Bible hell, then, is the common grave of mankind where good people as well as bad ones go.

Hellfire​—All-Consuming?

Could it be that the fire of hell is symbolic of all-consuming, or thorough, destruction? Separating fire from Hades, or hell, the Scriptures say: “Death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire.” “The lake” mentioned here is symbolic, since death and hell (Hades) that are thrown into it cannot literally be burned. “This [lake of fire] means the second death”​—death from which there is no hope of coming back to life.​—Revelation 20:14.

The lake of fire has a meaning similar to that of “the fiery Gehenna [hell fire, King James Version]” that Jesus spoke of. (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:47, 48) Gehenna occurs 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and it refers to the valley of Hinnom, outside the walls of Jerusalem. When Jesus was on earth, this valley was used as a garbage dump, “where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast.” (Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible) The fires were kept burning by adding sulfur to burn up the refuse. Jesus used that valley as a proper symbol of everlasting destruction.

As does Gehenna, the lake of fire symbolizes eternal destruction. Death and Hades are “hurled into” it in that they will be done away with when mankind is freed from sin and the condemnation of death. Willful, unrepentant sinners will also have their “portion” in that lake. (Revelation 21:8) They too will be annihilated forever. On the other hand, those in God’s memory who are in hell​—the common grave of mankind—​have a marvelous future.

Hell Emptied!

Revelation 20:13 states: “The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them.” Yes, the Bible hell will be emptied. As Jesus promised, “the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus’] voice and come out.” (John 5:28, 29) Although no longer presently existing in any form, millions of dead ones who are in God’s memory will be resurrected, or brought back to life, in a restored earthly paradise.​—Luke 23:43; Acts 24:15.

In the new world of God’s making, resurrected humans who comply with his righteous laws will never need to die again. (Isaiah 25:8) God “will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.” In fact, “the former things [will] have passed away.” (Revelation 21:4)

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19560

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3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Of course not.  The Bible cannot sin.  It is perfect.  Also, it’s a book so it doesn’t even have reproductive organs, much less deploy them in an ungodly way.

The Bible is a book written by men. It contains stories and some bad history. The history is so bad we aren't even 100% certain that there even was a Jesus of Nazareth. Probably, though!

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Bible is a book written by men. It contains stories and some bad history. The history is so bad we aren't even 100% certain that there even was a Jesus of Nazareth. Probably, though!

Agreed... to keep it simple just use a variation of the old Nike motto: Just Do Good...

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thunderlounge

thunderlounge 8432

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13 hours ago, bolverk said:

But, in all seriousness, it's weird and hurtful when the people, who raised you, think you deserve eternal suffering for not believing the same things they do (and are outspoken about it).

 

Sounds awfuly judgey for that whole “judge not, lest thee be judged” shit. 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18447

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Bible is a book written by men. It contains stories and some bad history. The history is so bad we aren't even 100% certain that there even was a Jesus of Nazareth. Probably, though!

Nice try.  You’ll never convince me, of all people, that Jesus did not exist.

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 7009

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8 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

That’s why you’re going to Hell.  

This is a bit, right?

 

you should check out a new BBC doc about Jesus and how it’s believed he made his way to India and eventually became a Buddhist monk and that he wasn’t ever crucified. 

 

Me? I have my doubts he actually existed. The gospels are bullshit and they contradict each other. Funny they’re written by people who never even met Jesus 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18447

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2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I think he's just goofing. 

Yes.  This is the right answer.  I thought it would be obvious, but it’s apparently hard to be absurdly Christian enough to make the satirical intent clear.

If there’s a Hell, I’ll be there.  (Spoiler alert: there isn’t.)

Edited by BrickHorn
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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6872

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1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

 

Yes.  This is the right answer.  I thought it would be obvious, but it’s apparently hard to be absurdly Christian enough to make the satirical intent clear.

If there’s a Hell, I’ll be there.  (Spoiler alert: there isn’t.)

My bad then lol, removed the neg

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18447

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1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

This is a bit, right?

 

you should check out a new BBC doc about Jesus and how it’s believed he made his way to India and eventually became a Buddhist monk and that he wasn’t ever crucified. 

 

Me? I have my doubts he actually existed. The gospels are bullshit and they contradict each other. Funny they’re written by people who never even met Jesus 

Jesus was a myth from the get-go.  Just read the earliest Christian writing we have, Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians.  He really knows nothing about Jesus’s supposed life and his whole argument that Jesus rose from the dead is “Well if he didn’t, then why are we even Christian?”  Not very persuasive logic.

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JBJ

JBJ 3828

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14 hours ago, bolverk said:

But, in all seriousness, it's weird and hurtful when the people, who raised you, think you deserve eternal suffering for not believing the same things they do (and are outspoken about it).

Yeah.  Sounds like you had tough experiences with religious people growing up. 

I've got a quote for you:

Quote

Where the Bible speaks; we speak; where the Bible is silent, we are silent.

That is the creed of the Restoration Movement of which Church of Christ is a part. I grew up in a Restoration Movement church.  I have no issue with that creed.  It was supposed to be a statement that dispelled the dogma of other Christian sects and allowing for a church with diverse backgrounds.  It now has 3 sub-sects that broke off because Church of Christ did not honor that creed.  So yeah, they are hypocritical even in their core beliefs.  So yeah, preach those experiences far and wide. Christians need those constant reminders that they are not being Christian. Your critique of Christians is the same as mine and many other Christians.

 

On Hell:

The modern day concept of hell and the devil is a mythology more than a theology.  The word itself comes from Norse mythology.  If you've seen the latest Thor movie you've seen the entymology.  The primary villianess, Hela, is the origin of the word.

Jesus referrenced it several times, in allegories, usually as the "unquenchable flames of Gehenna."  Gehenna is name for the refuse dump just south of Jerusalem, where trash was burned and corpses cremated constantly.  So there was literally an eternal flame that someone literally went to when they died.  The modern day equivalent would be the Springfield tire fire. 

The modern mythological place of burning and torment is more solid in Jewish literature than Christian literature.  There are mentions of Hades, Shoel, Gehenna, and Tartarus in the Bible.  The former pair being places for the dead and the latter pair being places for judgement and punishment.  They were probably clearly distinct concepts to their writers and original audience.  All of these concepts blended in Europe with Norse mythology to bring us what we have today.

Edited by JBJ
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JBJ

JBJ 3828

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47 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

This is a bit, right?

you should check out a new BBC doc about Jesus and how it’s believed he made his way to India and eventually became a Buddhist monk and that he wasn’t ever crucified. 

Me? I have my doubts he actually existed. The gospels are bullshit and they contradict each other. Funny they’re written by people who never even met Jesus 

Matthew was probably alive to write Matthew. 

Peter was alive when Mark wrote Mark (we don't have any evidence that Mark himself met Jesus).

Luke was a Roman historian who never met Jesus.

John was likely dead before John was written, John's author isn't known.

Edited by JBJ
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19560

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1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Matthew was actually alive to write Matthew. 

Peter was alive when Mark wrote Mark (we don't have any evidence that Mark himself met Jesus).

Luke was a Roman historian who never met Jesus.

John was likely dead before John was written, John's author isn't known.

None of the gospel authors knew Jesus. He was long dead before they were even born.

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JBJ

JBJ 3828

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

None of the gospel authors knew Jesus. He was long dead before they were even born.

Why do you think this?  The only one not alive during the same time frame would have been whoever wrote John.

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bolverk

bolverk 30351

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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Why is this fucking thread in Politics?

Where would you have put it? I figured the conversation could turn ugly and cloaky as religious discussions around here are wont to do, so I put it in here where the more decent shaggy surly posters never venture.

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