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Texas basketball 2020-21: Not even Shaka can fuck this up...right?

Goo Punch

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Steamboat1874
Steamboat1874

He is also the best college play by play guy in the country so fuck off.

UTexasFight
UTexasFight

If Craig Way outlives me, I want him narrating the opening to my memorial service: “The deceased, laying from left to right in your mind’s eye, wearing his home jersey today: All black coat, with a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Looks like we have an answer to the thread title.

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orangecat92

orangecat92 306

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dang, scrappy great win in the clutch.  I watched every minute. Team overcame the oc92 possible jinx, trailing almost the entire game. 

Refs bug me the most with the coddling of number one, either because he's a Wooden candidate or because he plays for Huggins.  Glad to see Shaka come out of his shell in the 2nd half, at least compared to last season.  Andrew Jones is the man!  

Shaka, it's okay to get after the refs before the 2nd half as well.  Refs were intimidated by Huggins today?  maybe every time he coaches, I don't know. 

Great win! Keep on working! 

 

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SDG

SDG 3336

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7 minutes ago, orangecat92 said:

dang, scrappy great win in the clutch.  I watched every minute. Team overcame the oc92 possible jinx, trailing almost the entire game. 

Refs bug me the most with the coddling of number one, either because he's a Wooden candidate or because he plays for Huggins.  Glad to see Shaka come out of his shell in the 2nd half, at least compared to last season.  Andrew Jones is the man!  

Shaka, it's okay to get after the refs before the 2nd half as well.  Refs were intimidated by Huggins today?  maybe every time he coaches, I don't know. 

Great win! Keep on working! 

 

Shaka has gotten after the refs all season.  that and the hair is the biggest change from previous years.   

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Hornlover

Hornlover 8942

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The opening five minutes, when we just kept getting layups and alley-oop dunks was amazing. There was a stretch after halftime where we took too many contested threes or ugly twos early in tbe shot clock that frustrated me, but they stuck with it and pulled out a win.

Definitely a fun team to watch. 

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El Squared

El Squared 1851

Posted
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3 hours ago, HookEm said:

Make no mistake, Tech is going to be a tough game.

Beard the better coach but this year we have the better athletes, who seem to be playing for each other. Great to see. 

Still no clue whether this is Shaka based success or planetary alignment, but I will allow it.

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satyanash

satyanash 15601

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Tim Beam: The Trouble With Shaka's Backcourts

Quote

College basketball is a guard-dominated affair. Shocking news, I know. Brand new **** y'all have never, ever considered, I'm sure. So, you're welcome. Last spring, I spent a lot of time thinking about the guards we've seen come through the 40 Acres since 2000. From Brandon Mouton to TJ Ford to DJ Augustin and all the way to today, we've been fortunate to watch a lot of terrific players.

But, and perhaps some might remember this conversation as I highlighted in one of our podcasts, there's a pretty significant difference between the level of backcourt play Texas got between 2001 and 2011 and, then, from 2011 through today. I posted a kind of long group of screen captures of statistics I put together from some of the top backcourt players during both Rick's and Shaka's tenures.

You can take a look at that, if you care to do so. But here's the most pertinent information, in my opinion. If you take the top backcourt players from the Barnes era - and we're talking like the tippy-top guys, here...like, first or second round draft picks after no more than two seasons at UT - their combined statistics are:

F: 11.9 pts, 4.3 asts, 3.4 rbs, 2.5 tos, 45% from two, 39% from three and 70% from the line in 30.4 mpg
S: 16.6 pts, 4.7 asts, 4.6 rbs, 2.5 tos, 46% from two, 36% from three and 78% from the line in 34.1 mpg

Now, those are the freshmen and sophomore combined stats from TJ Ford, Daniel Gibson, DJ Augustin, Avery Bradley, Jordan Hamilton and Cory Joseph. A bunch of studs including four guys who are still in the league over a decade later. Compare those to the top backcourt players of Shaka's era in their first two years:

F: 9.3 pts, 3.0 asts, 3.2 rbs, 2.0 tos, 47% from two, 34% from three and 69% from the line in 26.4 mpg
S: 10.5 pts, 3.0 asts, 3.1 rbs, 2.1 tos, 44% from two, 33% from three and 71% from the line in 29.7 mpg

Those are the freshmen and sophomore combined stats from Kerwin Roach, Andrew Jones, Matt Coleman and Courtney Ramey. A bunch of nice players. Clearly, a bunch of top-level NBA draft picks have outplayed Shaka's best backcourt players and that's not even a mild surprise. But here are the numbers this year:

Courtney Ramey (jr):
13.8 pts, 3.5 asts, 3.2 rbs, 2.5 tos, 44% from two, 43% from three and 79% from the line in 32.8 mpg

Matt Coleman (sr):
13.6 pts, 4.4 asts, 3.2 rbs, 1.9 tos, 57% from two, 33% from three and 88% from the line in 35.0 mpg

Andrew Jones (jr):
13.4 pts, 2.2 asts, 4.4 rbs, 2.0 tos, 46% from two, 31% from three and 76% from the line in 28.9 mpg

In Aggregate this year:
13.6 pts, 3.4 asts, 3.6 rbs, 2.1 tos, 49% from two, 35% from three and 81% from the line in 32.2 mpg

Again, if I bring back the Barnes numbers from before:
F: 11.9 pts, 4.3 asts, 3.4 rbs, 2.5 tos, 45% from two, 39% from three and 70% from the line in 30.4 mpg
S: 16.6 pts, 4.7 asts, 4.6 rbs, 2.5 tos, 46% from two, 36% from three and 78% from the line in 34.1 mpg

So, essentially, we're getting a little bit better than freshmen under Barnes and not as good as sophomores under Barnes. You take that. And you especially take that when you see that Shaka's guards are between better and significantly better this year than their sophomore year averages in every single category. Then you think about Barnes' Tournament resume from the years when he had TJ, Daniel, DJ, Avery, Cory and Jordan (14 NCAA wins in eight seasons) and it gets you hopeful that this year can capture some of that same magic.

Bonus Section

But what about next year? It's taken six years for Shaka to get to this point and it would be pretty frustrating if Matt's departure was the harbinger for reversion. I guess I don't think we'll see a dramatic downturn next season with senior Ramey and senior Andrew around. Perhaps that's because of how much I believe in incoming freshman guard Tamar Bates and how much I really like Donovan Williams' potential, but I think backcourt play will be a strength again next year (taking in consideration the likelihood that Febres returns, too).

It is a particular type of roulette that Shaka's had to play, though. Because the only backcourt recruit, rankings wise, who can even sort of compare with the rankings of Avery, TJ, Cory, Daniel, DJ and Jordan is Andrew Jones. Everybody else was a solid to high four star, but we haven't been in the mix for elite backcourt players very often. Meaning, we could be relying on guards progressing into terrific senior players, which is not some kind of a given.

Endgame

Enjoy this season. Guard play at this level is more rare than we'd like for it to be. Beyond that, Shaka's kind of proving, right now, that he can build a backcourt roster to get us some place really good. But having that type of scenario more than once every five years or so would make Texas hoops fans feel a whole lot better. Thanks for reading, friends.

 

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13626

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, HookEm said:

Make no mistake, Tech is going to be a tough game.

Yeah there are no off nights in the Big 12. 

Every single game for the rest of the season is going to be a war.

I cannot wait man. I sure wish I could watch this team in person.

Edited by Valmy77
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HookEm

HookEm 2509

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Posted
Quote

Tim Beam: The Trouble With Shaka's Backcourts

While I enjoyed that analysis, it is a little apples to oranges when looking at the players in aggregate.  He is comparing our top three players this year to other great UT player's single seasons.  If you are going to look in this group in aggregate, you should compare them to the top-3 guards for our all-time great teams. 

Let's do that now.  As you will see below, to date this group of guards compares very favorably to any of the below teams.  The only recent group that looks better than them is the 2008 group with Augustin, Abrams and Mason, but this group is more efficient than that one.  

 

2021:  Coleman (SR), Ramey (JR), Jones (JR) - Updated, Currently 10-1 and #4 in the country

13.6 pts, 3.4 ast, 2.9 reb, 2.1 TO, 48.9% from two, 35.4% from three and 80.2% from the line in 32.2 mpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1990:  T. Mays (SR), L. Blanks (SR), J. Wright (JR) - Elite 8

21.3 pts, 3.0 ast, 4.6 reb, 2.7 TO, 45.8% from two, 30.6% from three and 79.6% from the line in 36.1 mpg

 

1997:  R. Freeman (SR), B. Perryman (JR), K. Clack (SO) - Sweet 16

14.5 pts, 2.7 ast, 5.4 reb, 2.7 TO, 46.0% from two, 38.3% from three and 75.0% from the line in 36.1 mpg

 

2003:  T. Ford (SO), R. Ivey (JR), B. Mouton (JR) - Final Four

12.6 pts, 3.7 ast, 3.7 reb, 2.1 TO, 46% from two, 33.7% from three and 74.8% from the line in 29.6 mpg

 

2004:  R. Ivey (SR), B. Mouton (SR), K. Taylor (JR) - Sweet 16

10.2 pts, 2.3 ast, 3.1 reb, 1.5 TO, 44.7% from two, 37.3% from three and 67.1% from the line in 26.2 mpg

 

2006:  D. Gibson (SO), K. Paulino (SR), A. Abrams (FR) - Elite 8

9.9 pts, 3.0 ast, 2.5 reb, 1.8 TO, 45.8 % from two, 38.2% from three and 80.4% from the line in 27.3 mpg

 

2008:  D. Augustin (SO), A. Abrams (JR), J. Mason (So) - Elite 8

14.3 pts, 3.4 ast, 3.4 reb, 1.6 TO, 46.6% from two, 37.2% from three and 76.8% from the line in 35.3 mpg

 

2011:  C. Joseph (FR), J. Brown (SO), D. Balbay (SO) - Round of 32

8.3 pts, 2.4 ast, 2.8 reb, 1.4 TO, 46.4 % from two, 39.1% from three and 76.1% from the line in 24.3 mpg

 

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Hornlover

Hornlover 8942

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Posted
40 minutes ago, HookEm said:

While I enjoyed that analysis, it is a little apples to oranges when looking at the players in aggregate.  He is comparing our top three players this year to other great UT player's single seasons.  If you are going to look in this group in aggregate, you should compare them to the top-3 guards for our all-time great teams. 

Let's do that now.  As you will see below, to date this group of guards compares very favorably to any of the below teams.  The only recent group that looks better than them is the 2008 group with Augustin, Abrams and Mason, but this group is more efficient than that one.  

 

2021:  Coleman (SR), Ramey (JR), Jones (JR) - Updated, Currently 10-1 and #4 in the country

13.6 pts, 3.4 ast, 2.9 reb, 2.1 TO, 48.9% from two, 35.4% from three and 80.2% from the line in 32.2 mpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2008:  D. Augustin (SO), A. Abrams (JR), J. Mason (So) - Elite 8

14.3 pts, 3.4 ast, 3.4 reb, 1.6 TO, 46.6% from two, 37.2% from three and 76.8% from the line in 35.3 mpg

 

 

I haven't looked it up (too lazy), but going from memory, Justin Mason was a lockdown defender that had plenty of offensive troubles (I shudder to think about him running the point after Augustin left), and probably brought these numbers down. 

Also, it's near impossible to compare across seasons when the pace of play changes so much. You'd need to somehow find historical records for number of offensive possessions per game to look at the efficiency.

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HookEm

HookEm 2509

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Posted

Yeah, I thought about using the per 100 possessions numbers.  Unfortunately they don't really have those stats till ~10 years ago.  Here is how we stack up to 2011.

2021:  Coleman (SR), Ramey (JR), Jones (JR) - Updated, Currently 10-1 and #4 in the country

24.3 pts, 6.0 ast, 6.5 reb, 3.8 TO, 111.8 ORtg, 95.0 DRtg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2011:  C. Joseph (FR), J. Brown (SO), D. Balbay (SO) - Round of 32

20.1 pts, 6.0 ast, 6.9 reb, 3.6 TO, 113.4 ORtg, 93.8 DRtg

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Ghost of Shag

Ghost of Shag 2730

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I’m no Shaka fan, but it’s hard to blame him for last night’s loss. When you’re up 4 with 1:30 to play, brick a pair of free throws and inbound to the wrong team, that’s on the players.

If any of that is different, we pull off yet another win against a top 15 team.

Shaka’s not an elite coach, but that game is on the players.

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Js1

Js1 87182

Posted
Posted
Just now, Ghost of Shag said:

I’m no Shaka fan, but it’s hard to blame him for last night’s loss. When you’re up 4 with 1:30 to play, brick a pair of free throws and inbound to the wrong team, that’s on the players.

If any of that is different, we pull off yet another win against a top 15 team.

Shaka’s not an elite coach, but that game is on the players.

It’s one loss by a couple points to a top 13 team with an elite coach we all would love to have. 
image.gif.59d343b53b8aa81bca98cd273c3f93a2.gif
It wasn’t a loss to Iowa state or Kansas state, it was Tech. 

Sark better hire a DC before Texas fans kill themselves between now and the next game. 

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10803

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Ghost of Shag said:

I’m no Shaka fan, but it’s hard to blame him for last night’s loss. When you’re up 4 with 1:30 to play, brick a pair of free throws and inbound to the wrong team, that’s on the players.

If any of that is different, we pull off yet another win against a top 15 team.

Shaka’s not an elite coach, but that game is on the players.

Problem with this is that is was clear Texas had the better players/athletes.  Beard made the half time adjustments (again) that Shaka had no answer for (again).

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 50004

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Posted
1 hour ago, Ghost of Shag said:

I’m no Shaka fan, but it’s hard to blame him for last night’s loss. When you’re up 4 with 1:30 to play, brick a pair of free throws and inbound to the wrong team, that’s on the players.

If any of that is different, we pull off yet another win against a top 15 team.

Shaka’s not an elite coach, but that game is on the players.

 

 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Posted

x/post from the game thread:

yeah, we were gonna lose at some point, but when we did it needed to be a close road loss to Baylor, or because our entire team was cold all night and we had three players in foul trouble- not because we dropped 48 on TTU in one half, at home, only to be completely inept the entire 2H, and *then* blow a wide open layup, literally hand the ball to TTU so that they can tie the game, and then settle for a running, baseline fade away jumper in an attempt to take the lead back as time runs down.

last night was an implosion, and i'm not going to just say, "eh, we were always going to lose anyway" after an epic choke job like that. Beard adjusted at half time, Shaka never did. the fact that AJ seemingly didn't even come out of the locker room for the 2H is inexcusable; going to Sims over and over and over just so that TTU could keep sending him to the line is inexcusable; having zero answer for Beard's adjustments is inexcusable; not getting Kaimore involved in the offense is inexcusable; and finally, my god- missing a wide open break away layup and thenliterally handing the game away is inexcusable. 

maybe we bounce back from this right away. the schedule is favorable moving forward, and we should have some pretty easy wins in the near future. but make no mistake- we saw what this team capable of last night, and i don't mean that in no nice way. we saw the gulf in class between Beard and Shaka, and we saw what happens when you live and die by mercurial guards like Courtney Ramey. our warts were on full display last night, and they are fucking ugly. Shaka has been acting like a rabid dog this season when it comes to screaming at officials and and yelling at his players during the games. i hope he brings that same energy this morning when he critiques his own performance from last night.

if last night ends up being the wake up call that we need, then fine. but if it's simply a harbinger of what very well may come in other big games down the road- well, prepare to have your heart ripped out all over again come March. this team has crazy size and athleticism, and more experience than almost any team in the country- but we still have Shaka, who, despite our record, did not become some great coach overnight, and we still rely on/live and die with the decision making of players who've essentially never been held accountable for their stupid play before. Last night showed what we all have been keeping in the back of our minds- this team could go to the Final Four, or it could lose in the round of 32 to a team with a real coach and some instilled discipline. not to mention that this year is going to be our *one* true shot to make some noise under Shaka. if we don't learn from last night, we will be doomed to repeat it. 

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ztejas

ztejas 44227

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1 hour ago, Ghost of Shag said:

Just looked at the box score. 

Why is Kai only getting fifteen minutes?  

Because he has nowhere near as much moxie as Sims. 

Moxie here meaning an inability to score from outside of 3 feet or shoot above 45% from the FT line. 

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Js1

Js1 87182

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Posted
11 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

x/post from the game thread:

if last night ends up being the wake up call that we need, then fine. but if it's simply a harbinger of what very well may come in other big games down the road- well, prepare to have your heart ripped out all over again come March. this team has crazy size and athleticism, and more experience than almost any team in the country- but we still have Shaka, who, despite our record, did not become some great coach overnight, and we still rely on/live and die with the decision making of players who've essentially never been held accountable for their stupid play before. Last night showed what we all have been keeping in the back of our minds- this team could go to the Final Four, or it could lose in the round of 32 to a team with a real coach and some instilled discipline. not to mention that this year is going to be our *one* true shot to make some noise under Shaka. if we don't learn from last night, we will be doomed to repeat it. 

I can agree with this.   Next 5 games: 

KSU - 2-7, 1-4 - garbage

@ ISU - 2-7, 0-5 - garbage

@ TCU - 9-5, 2-4 - we'll see

OU - 7-4, 3-3 - tough game bc rivalry

@ Kentucky - 4-7, 3-1 - seemingly getting better? 

I want to host Baylor on February 2nd at 15-2, but 14-3 looks likely

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TxTower

TxTower 686

Posted
Posted
x/post from the game thread:
yeah, we were gonna lose at some point, but when we did it needed to be a close road loss to Baylor, or because our entire team was cold all night and we had three players in foul trouble- not because we dropped 48 on TTU in one half, at home, only to be completely inept the entire 2H, and *then* blow a wide open layup, literally hand the ball to TTU so that they can tie the game, and then settle for a running, baseline fade away jumper in an attempt to take the lead back as time runs down.
last night was an implosion, and i'm not going to just say, "eh, we were always going to lose anyway" after an epic choke job like that. Beard adjusted at half time, Shaka never did. the fact that AJ seemingly didn't even come out of the locker room for the 2H is inexcusable; going to Sims over and over and over just so that TTU could keep sending him to the line is inexcusable; having zero answer for Beard's adjustments is inexcusable; not getting Kaimore involved in the offense is inexcusable; and finally, my god- missing a wide open break away layup and thenliterally handing the game away is inexcusable. 
maybe we bounce back from this right away. the schedule is favorable moving forward, and we should have some pretty easy wins in the near future. but make no mistake- we saw what this team capable of last night, and i don't mean that in no nice way. we saw the gulf in class between Beard and Shaka, and we saw what happens when you live and die by mercurial guards like Courtney Ramey. our warts were on full display last night, and they are fucking ugly. Shaka has been acting like a rabid dog this season when it comes to screaming at officials and and yelling at his players during the games. i hope he brings that same energy this morning when he critiques his own performance from last night.
if last night ends up being the wake up call that we need, then fine. but if it's simply a harbinger of what very well may come in other big games down the road- well, prepare to have your heart ripped out all over again come March. this team has crazy size and athleticism, and more experience than almost any team in the country- but we still have Shaka, who, despite our record, did not become some great coach overnight, and we still rely on/live and die with the decision making of players who've essentially never been held accountable for their stupid play before. Last night showed what we all have been keeping in the back of our minds- this team could go to the Final Four, or it could lose in the round of 32 to a team with a real coach and some instilled discipline. not to mention that this year is going to be our *one* true shot to make some noise under Shaka. if we don't learn from last night, we will be doomed to repeat it. 

Came here to say we got outcoached in the second half but this pretty much sums it up.
Oh and I’ll be very glad when we no longer have to count on an undersized PG to take last gasp shots at the end of games. To be fair, he’s made a few (OU/NC) but he’s missed a lot more and usually responsible for the team being in those situations in the first place.


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Bitterwhiteguy

Bitterwhiteguy 153

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Ghost of Shag said:

Just looked at the box score. 

Why is Kai only getting fifteen minutes?  

Because Sims was clearly the better player last night. Tech kept trying to get the big switched onto McClung and Sims handled it better than Kai, plus Santos-Silva was murdering everyone not named Sims with post position. If Tech's guards were better at feeding the post, Silva would have hung 20 on Texas with the way he was getting position. The only real knock on Sims last night was his free throws, but that's what you get with a guy who is a career ~60% free throw shooter.

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Bitterwhiteguy

Bitterwhiteguy 153

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Posted
2 hours ago, Js1 said:

I can agree with this.   Next 5 games: 

KSU - 2-7, 1-4 - garbage

@ ISU - 2-7, 0-5 - garbage

@ TCU - 9-5, 2-4 - we'll see

OU - 7-4, 3-3 - tough game bc rivalry

@ Kentucky - 4-7, 3-1 - seemingly getting better? 

I want to host Baylor on February 2nd at 15-2, but 14-3 looks likely

I said before the season that Texas needed to be at least 5-2 in this 7-game conference stretch (Kentucky not included, obviously) if they wanted a shot at the conference title. They're 2-1 and have a solid shot of being 6-1; the Tech loss hurts, but Tech is much better with the return of McCullar and they're a fairly obvious tourney team with him playing like he did last night.

The median for the rest of the season is 8-4 (8-5 if the Waco game gets tacked onto the end). Above that and Texas is probably 2nd with an outside shot at the title, below that and Texas is likely playing for 3rd-5th in the Big 12. 

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3467

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

seriously. if we replaced Sims' 2H touches with the exact same touches for Kai we win by 6-10 points. instead Kai was nowhere to be seen, off hiding somewhere with Andrew Jones during the 2H.

Kai gave up like 11 straight points when he was in the game. He was getting absolutely cooked. There's a reason he wasn't on the court much in the 2nd half.  It's like people only pay attention to one side of the court.  

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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