Texas Re-Opening Announced

[Trey3216 15325]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The reason we are doing all this lockdown stuff is to slow the spread and put us in a good position to PREVENT the virus from taking off again. We still have a nation wide mask and Lysol shortage and we are #1 in coronavirus cases and deaths.  I dunno Biff, perhaps holding off on the Astroworld reunion party is the way to go.

And if we maintain the same, we’re going to destroy the healthcare system by way of bankruptcy.  Operating like we are is bad business for everyone.  Is 1/2 of our healthcare system folding up shop in effort to prevent it from being overrun a good idea?   
 

I don’t know, but it’s something that needs to be, and hopefully is being, calculated into the equation.  

[Caddox 952]

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

JFC, you brain-dead twat, have you not been watching trump embarrass himself on a daily basis the last 3+ years?   That's not to mention the corruption, hubris, narcissism, nepotism, incompetence, abuse of power, etc. 

I watched him embarrass Hillary who is all the things you called trump to the tenth degree. And at the very least Biden is right there with Trump if he can remember where he is. Difference is Trump isn’t into little kids. Btw, y’all went after Trump and couldn’t get the goods. When are you going to do the same with Biden? I mean y’all are social justice warriors right? Where is your outrage for Tara Reade? She’s one of you after all. Let me guess, fake news? 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/tara-reade-witnesses-joe-biden-assault-harassment.html

[mdmost 42865]

Man, this guy's great. Just came in guns blazing, to own the libs. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Caddox said:

I watched him embarrass Hillary who is all the things you called trump to the tenth degree. And at the very least Biden is right there with Trump if he can remember where he is. Difference is Trump isn’t into little kids. Btw, y’all went after Trump and couldn’t get the goods. When are you going to do the same with Biden? I mean y’all are social justice warriors right? Where is your outrage for Tara Reade? She’s one of you after all. Let me guess, fake news? 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/tara-reade-witnesses-joe-biden-assault-harassment.html

Strop drinking Lysol trumpkin. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Man, this guy's great. Just came in guns blazing, to own the libs. 

He’s like a parody account. 

Look how stupid I can actually post all you libs!

[Wanker Bob 379]

18 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

And if you know anything about the restaurant business, you’d know that operating at 25% capacity for most of them will be a mathematical no-go 

But who was going to regulate that 25%? Who's going to be counting and doing the math? What will the punishment be for not adhering? 

So what's the real reason for Abbott making the 25% number? Is it to say they technically can open so now they are not eligible for more government assistance? In that case the business owner will be forced to choose between violating the 25% or losing their business. Guess which option will be chosen? 

[4th&Five 41460]

8 minutes ago, Caddox said:

I watched him embarrass Hillary who is all the things you called trump to the tenth degree. And at the very least Biden is right there with Trump if he can remember where he is. Difference is Trump isn’t into little kids. Btw, y’all went after Trump and couldn’t get the goods. When are you going to do the same with Biden? I mean y’all are social justice warriors right? Where is your outrage for Tara Reade? She’s one of you after all. Let me guess, fake news? 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/tara-reade-witnesses-joe-biden-assault-harassment.html

He’s not into kids? You mean other than his own daughter and teenage pageant participants?

[Trey3216 15325]

1 minute ago, Wanker Bob said:

But who was going to regulate that 25%? Who's going to be counting and doing the math? What will the punishment be for not adhering? 

So what's the real reason for Abbott making the 25% number? Is it to say they technically can open so now they are not eligible for more government assistance? In that case the business owner will be forced to choose between violating the 25% or losing their business. Guess which option will be chosen? 

I think the workers will end up making the decision for them, as they will likely decide to remain unemployed than come back to work at low capacity.  There are a lot of variables here. 
 

the data we collect in the coming weeks will be just as important to us getting through this as anything else.  I’m not saying things are right or wrong, I’m saying that having the right to open and the ability to do so are much different things.   
 

this is a case study within a case study 

[Caddox 952]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

He’s like a parody account. 

Look how stupid I can actually post all you libs!

Hurr durr u r a dummy! You’d fit in great over at texags, they use that one to deflect their sheep humping. You’d make mee maw happy.

[Ghost of LL 15492]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was looking at sub (i), which speaks of "more restrictive measures."

Also, the governor has the same power as (g) in 418.018.  It was my impression from the first couple of scans that they had parallel/overlapping powers and no means of resolving conflict.

I think we are in a structural penumbra, here.

There's no conflict.  The governor does have the same power when he declares a statewide emergency.  But he just declared the statewide emergency over.

There are lots of times that there are local emergencies that aren't statewide.  Tornadoes and hurricanes are the common examples.  In those cases, the mayor or county judge has power to control ingress or egress and to order premises be vacated.  Tex. Gov't Code 418.108(g).

What the governor doesn't have the power to do is say "there's no emergency anywhere in the state."  That power is completely missing from Chapter 418.

27 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Well, no shit.  The Trumpublicans only care about big businesses?  Color me fucking shocked.

[Wanker Bob 379]

29 minutes ago, smoky said:

Arent lawsuits factors of the bottom line?

Not when the ramifications of a lawsuit settlement are deemed not as bad has the loss of profit from pushing an unsafe product through (big pharma cases), or when the ramifications of a lawsuit are preferable to losing your business in the short-term. 

By taking these steps without proper safeguards in place the government is forcing a lot of businesses to make choices between employee and customer safety and being able to stay open. Which do you think is the option that will be chosen by the vast majority?

[4th&Five 41460]

4 minutes ago, Caddox said:

Hurr durr u r a dummy! You’d fit in great over at texags, they use that one to deflect their sheep humping. You’d make mee maw happy.

“You’d fit in great over at texags” says the guy spouting bullshit similar to the morons on texags. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

52 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think this is actually a really good idea. 

Me too.  How dope would it be if the primary effect of the ‘rona was 2 biannual preplanned 3 week shutdowns?  How much would it damage the economy if we just decided the standard work year should be 1800 hrs minus PTO instead of 2080 minus PTO?

[Skipper 6103]

28 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

You mentioned hospitalizations - that's great, but that's a lagging indicator. By the time hospitalizations start trending up enough to get attention, it's already widespread. 

I don't know what your threshold for "elite" testing and contact tracing is, but we absolutely could scale up our abilities in both categories to the point where it'd be adequate. We have chosen not to make that investment. So I agree we won't - but to say we can't is excuse making.

I agree.  But we won't have the hospitalization data in a vacuum.  Testing availability and lag time isn't great in Dallas but it has improved.   I think it's "good enough" currently that testing numbers are going to show any problematic increase in the spread (which will be confirmed by the more reliable hospitalization data).  And it isn't like it's going to skyrocket like it would if no measures are in place.  By and large even those venturing out are going to do so carefully, particularly those that are most vulnerable.   City leaders should be in a position to adequately monitor when it's time to shut things back down.   

And look, if city leaders have an actual plan to increase testing and develop contact tracing over the next few weeks, I'm all for it.  I've been waiting for anything resembling a plan for the past 3 weeks once it became apparent there was zero chance of Dallas turning into NY with this initial surge.

But if our plan is "we don't know how to fix testing or contact tracing so we're going to keep everything lock downed perpetually even though all current data shows minimal current community spread and empty hospitals" it's not going to go over well with Joe Public.  

[TornACL 7675]

52 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Yeah, considering no matter what the official 'regulations' are there are going to be a shitload of contacts over July 4th weekend, I was thinking we could just plan a 2 week shutdown beginning Monday July 6th.

That would require someone in a position of authority to actually have a plan. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

6 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I think the workers will end up making the decision for them, as they will likely decide to remain unemployed than come back to work at low capacity.  There are a lot of variables here. 
 

the data we collect in the coming weeks will be just as important to us getting through this as anything else.  I’m not saying things are right or wrong, I’m saying that having the right to open and the ability to do so are much different things.   
 

this is a case study within a case study 

That would be the case if the workers had any leverage, but these are low-paid service industry workers without healthcare and without a nest egg to fall back on. now that the government has deemed the restaurants can open I'm sure they'll be disqualified from continuing to earn unemployment benefits, and as such will have little option but to return to an unsafe working environment in order to financially attempt to survive. 

That's why I said reopening should be happening but you have to have the proper safeguards in place for the businesses as well as the employees and customers.

This includes enough testing capacity to know in near real-time the effects of the open so things can be shut down as needed to contain an outbreak spike, proper financial assistance for businesses and employees so they aren't forced into a situation that endangers the public health, and proper monitoring of the restrictions of the open so you don't have businesses going hog-wild and breaking the rules. 

Right now they're trying to force a partial reopen without any of these safeguards and that's what I have a major problem seeing happen. If we see it's not working there's a good chance it'll be days or weeks too late to stem the flow of a major outbreak. And unfortunately the workers and consumers will pay the ultimate price. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

There's no conflict.  The governor does have the same power when he declares a statewide emergency.  But he just declared the statewide emergency over.

There are lots of times that there are local emergencies that aren't statewide.  Tornadoes and hurricanes are the common examples.  In those cases, the mayor or county judge has power to control ingress or egress and to order premises be vacated.  Tex. Gov't Code 418.108(g).

What the governor doesn't have the power to do is say "there's no emergency anywhere in the state."  That power is completely missing from Chapter 418.

Well, no shit.  The Trumpublicans only care about big businesses?  Color me fucking shocked.

You are making your point even better. If the county judge of Rio County, Texas declares a local emergency because of tornado can the Texas governor come in and declare his order invalid? Given the history of this State I would tend to think not. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

52 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think this is actually a really good idea. 

Me too.  How dope would it be if the primary effect of the ‘rona was 2 biannual preplanned 3 week shutdowns?  How much would it damage the economy if we just decided the standard work year should be 1800 hrs minus PTO instead of 2080 minus PTO?

[JimmyJames 12271]

Because of its populist past,  Texas has always tried to limit the power of its own governor, often times in favor of the county judge and the populace itself. Its why every judge in this state is elected by the people and not appointed by the governor.  This is an interesting question.

[Skipper 6103]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

 

Well, no shit.  The Trumpublicans only care about big businesses?  Color me fucking shocked.

Look.  I despise Trump and certainly don't approve of the way Abbot has handled this or really much during his tenure.  But on the 25% point, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.   

Open at 25%? Small businesses can't operate that way!  He only cares about big business!  It was tailored for them!!  

Open at 50% (or greater) capacity?  He's not taking a measured approach to reopening!!  This Trumplican is trying to get everyone killed!!  

I mean of all the things to criticize, that is far, far down the list IMO.  25% seems pretty reasonable from a public safety standpoint.  If it's not profitable or even revenue neutral for a business, nobody is forcing them to open.  They can continue to stay closed and operate curbside like they have been and hope capacity can be increased over time.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Alamo Drafthouse already said they aren't reopening this weekend. They know it's not worth it to run movies that have already been out to 25%, if that, of their normal audience. 

I doubt 50% moves the needle either.

We have been having a discussion among my pool league captains and The Grand where we play and it occurred to me that even if they opt to restrict capacity to 50%, our league would probably surpass that. I just don't see a lot of businesses deciding to open and then have to limit how many people can be inside. That sounds like a logistics nightmare.

[Biff Tannen 45494]

FWIW, one of my good friends who is a restaurant owner and one of the smartest people I know said he is “very impressed” by the plan Abbott rolled out today. 

[Michael Knight 12897]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

FWIW, one of my good friends who is a restaurant owner and one of the smartest people I know said he is “very impressed” by the plan Abbott rolled out today. 

does he own a chilis?

[4th&Five 41460]

Is there a plan for other businesses or is it just retail and food?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

FWIW, one of my good friends who is a restaurant owner and one of the smartest people I know said he is “very impressed” by the plan Abbott rolled out today. 

is the bar so low that any semblance of a plan is seen as impressive among some people? I found it barely noteworthy, nowhere near impressive.

[Biff Tannen 45494]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

is the bar so low that any semblance of a plan is seen as impressive among some people? I found it barely noteworthy, nowhere near impressive.

I think is was honestly partly this. He is no fan of our state politics. 

[ousuxndallas 65]

25% is for dine in. I'm sure the restaurants will continue with takeout and delivery for customers that demand it. So for those who want to wait for a seat in the restaurant, they now have that option.

Seems like a reasonable approach.

[Wanker Bob 379]

14 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Is there a plan for other businesses or is it just retail and food?

Well movie theaters can now open to 25 Percent capacity to show non existent movies that Hollywood is currently not releasing. There's that very well thought out plan for them. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

3 minutes ago, ousuxndallas said:

25% is for dine in. I'm sure the restaurants will continue with takeout and delivery for customers that demand it. So for those who want to wait for a seat in the restaurant, they now have that option.

Seems like a reasonable approach.

Where do the ones that want to wait do the waiting? Mandatory in the car? Reservation only with no on site waiting allowed? Do restaurant employees have to wear masks? Are they allowed to demand customers wear masks when not in the action of eating? 

Would be nice to get some clarification on this. Having 25 Percent capacity filled while 40 people cram into the waiting area, while appropriate for the level of stupidity of our government, would be disastrous. 

[TwiceHorn 31272]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Interesting point. The governor seems to just assume his authority on this matter overrides the cities and local governments. I’m not sure he is right. Maybe he is but I’d like to see the law that says so. Texas can have its strange idiosyncratic laws. 

Compare:

Quote

Sec. 418.018. MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE. 

* * *

(c) The governor may control ingress and egress to and from a disaster area and the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in the area.

With:

Quote

Sec. 418.108. DECLARATION OF LOCAL DISASTER.

*  *  *

(g) The county judge or the mayor of a municipality may control ingress to and egress from a disaster area under the jurisdiction and authority of the county judge or mayor and control the movement of persons and the occupancy of premises in that area.

There's nothing to resolve that conflict.  Unlike some federal notions of supremacy, under Article 4 of the Texas Constitution, the Governor only has the powers granted it by the Constitution or the legislature.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Trey3216 15325]

4 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

Where do the ones that want to wait do the waiting? Mandatory in the car? Reservation only with no on site waiting allowed? Do restaurant employees have to wear masks? Are they allowed to demand customers wear masks when not in the action of eating? 

Would be nice to get some clarification on this. Having 25 Percent capacity filled while 40 people cram into the waiting area, while appropriate for the level of stupidity of our government, would be disastrous. 

A few of the ones I’ve talked to this afternoon will likely be going reservation only and are considering time limitations.   
 

I think some folks will dine in, no doubt, but I’d bet more will come in and have a few cocktails and order takeout.  I’d imagine takeout capacity will largely remain the same and inside sales will not equal takeout for the time being (that’s for places that have capacity to cook lots of meals).  
 

it’ll be different everywhere, and a function of how well owners and managers are able to configure and employ to the restrictions. 

[6th Street 6357]

Yeah that doesn't sound like much fun. Sitting spread out in a restaurant trying to enjoy your food while worrying about catching the Rona. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

People aren’t just gonna start walking back into restaurants and movie theaters. 

Not until there’s sufficient assurance that it’s safe and that can’t happen without testing.

The federal government won’t test because the federal government only cares about trump ego nowadays and testing harms that endeavor.

So I guess we shall see if the states and the private sector pick up the slack instead.

You trump supporters have a lot of blood on your hands. I no longer care if that upsets you. Live and deal with it.

[SaucyJack 3487]

Abbott's plan does not meet the gating criteria to even reach phase one laid out in the federal "Opening Up America Again" Guidelines.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#criteria

https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83  (Trends Tab)

 

 

Continued mixed messages for the populace.  Have fun!

Edited April 28, 2020 by SaucyJack

[workswithseed 2036]

2 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

And if we maintain the same, we’re going to destroy the healthcare system by way of bankruptcy.  Operating like we are is bad business for everyone.  Is 1/2 of our healthcare system folding up shop in effort to prevent it from being overrun a good idea?   
 

I don’t know, but it’s something that needs to be, and hopefully is being, calculated into the equation.  

Wow, haven't seen you on this side of Surly in awhile.

[Wanker Bob 379]

11 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

People aren’t just gonna start walking back into restaurants and movie theaters. 

Not until there’s sufficient assurance that it’s safe and that can’t happen without testing.

The Trump idiots who make up 40 percent of the country and believe this is a democrat led hoax will be. And this state sure has a lot of them. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

42 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

A few of the ones I’ve talked to this afternoon will likely be going reservation only and are considering time limitations.   
 

I think some folks will dine in, no doubt, but I’d bet more will come in and have a few cocktails and order takeout.  I’d imagine takeout capacity will largely remain the same and inside sales will not equal takeout for the time being (that’s for places that have capacity to cook lots of meals).  
 

it’ll be different everywhere, and a function of how well owners and managers are able to configure and employ to the restrictions. 

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Just wish we weren't gambling without proper precautions with our lives and the lives of so many low income workers. 

[Trey3216 15325]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Wow, haven't seen you on this side of Surly in awhile.

Not all that often, but occasionally 

[workswithseed 2036]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

does he own a chilis?

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

Me too.  How dope would it be if the primary effect of the ‘rona was 2 biannual preplanned 3 week shutdowns?  How much would it damage the economy if we just decided the standard work year should be 1800 hrs minus PTO instead of 2080 minus PTO?

 

1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

Me too.  How dope would it be if the primary effect of the ‘rona was 2 biannual preplanned 3 week shutdowns?  How much would it damage the economy if we just decided the standard work year should be 1800 hrs minus PTO instead of 2080 minus PTO?

There wouldn't be PTO in that scenario. You would also likely see a drop in pay.

[Hookah Horns 3080]

2 hours ago, Caddox said:

I watched him embarrass Hillary who is all the things you called trump to the tenth degree. And at the very least Biden is right there with Trump if he can remember where he is. Difference is Trump isn’t into little kids. Btw, y’all went after Trump and couldn’t get the goods. When are you going to do the same with Biden? I mean y’all are social justice warriors right? Where is your outrage for Tara Reade? She’s one of you after all. Let me guess, fake news? 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/tara-reade-witnesses-joe-biden-assault-harassment.html

No, no. "Fake news" is what your cult responds with to any reporting it doesn't like. 

[Caddox 952]

1 minute ago, Hookah Horns said:

No, no. "Fake news" is what your cult responds with to any reporting it doesn't like. 

So then that link is legit?

[Pancho 44475]

2 hours ago, Caddox said:

I watched him embarrass Hillary

 

No you didn’t.  You can stop that lie right now. 

[TexArcher 37508]

6 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I get little joy from being right on the internet.

Well that's handy.

[Guest Lobo]

47 minutes ago, Wanker Bob said:

The Trump idiots who make up 40 percent of the country and believe this is a democrat led hoax will be. And this state sure has a lot of them. 

The good news is Trump voters do not make up 40% of the country.  That's a very misleading number.  

63mm out of 258mm adults over 18 in this country.  That's barely 25%.  Now he knows how to work a base in the right places in the right states, or his team did anyway.  Gotta give him credit there.  His 25% seems like 40% because they are loud, mobilized, and pop up in groups.  Sure 63mm is enough to win a POTUS election.  And in the end, that's all that matters.  But in day to day affairs, even in chunks of Texas, only 1 in 4 grown people are voters of his.  And of that 63mm, half will return to life as normal sane Republicans (crack wise all you want, there's such a thing).  It's the 30 million cult followers, left rudderless and out of power and back to feeling embarrassed, those are the ones you gotta worry about.  Half of them are too old and too apathetic to cause any mischief.  It's the last 15mm that will keep you up at night one day soon.

I posted a few months back about how the FBI had already been tracking these groups surfacing online that are going to shoot up Biden election night parties or ingaguration celebrations across the nation.  Some on here laughed it off.  And here we are, the groups even have uniforms (albeit stolen from a Margaritaville giftshop) and recruiting websites.  These folks finally got to be loud and proud for the first time in well over a generation, and it's about to be done before just as it was really getting started.  That's gonna sting and it'll be exacerbated by the fact that a lot of Trump haters are gonna rub the defeat in their faces.  And some of these clowns, while moronic and easily deceived, don't seem like they're gonna have a real long tolerance for poor sportsmanship/felony investigations. 

If the way economies open up in different ways from state to state doesn't force the balkanization of these United States, the mass violence delivered by that deeply committed sub-block of his base sure as shit will.    We're gonna have 15mm Americans on our hands that nobody is preparing for.  You think they're gonna pick up their ball and go home?  You think they're gonna forget how good the last four years felt like a heroin addict quitting cold turkey?  You're out of your fucking mind.  President Fuckstick will be gone soon enough, Covid-19 will eventually fade like the stars at dawn, but there's a much more significant long-term challenge arising.  These "Liberate America" protests/rallies with people armed to the teeth to demand the opening of nail salons and radio shacks, what you're watching is an exhibition. It's an exercise.  It's a WarGame to be played out on American soil for the next quarter century.  

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lobo

[softlynow 1783]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Compare:

With:

There's nothing to resolve that conflict.  Unlike some federal notions of supremacy, under Article 4 of the Texas Constitution, the Governor only has the powers granted it by the Constitution or the legislature.  

 

You’re trying too hard. The governor “may control” shit if he chooses. Meaning he can create premises limitations, or he can choose to not create those limitations. So can a county judge, in his county. That’s all the power given in those sections. What you’re describing is the grant of a specific power, which simply isn’t there. Neither section gives either actor the right to say “I choose not to limit so he can’t limit either.” If there in no other code section out there authorizing gubernatorial override power, then it doesn’t exist.

At least that’s how I read it after a few.

Edited April 28, 2020 by softlynow
Left out a bit because

[Hookah Horns 3080]

57 minutes ago, Caddox said:

So then that link is legit?

Beats me, I'm not clicking on your bullshit

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

So starting Friday, do we get to do tours of our buildings, the governors mansion and the capitol, immediately?  I’m down.  Demand it.  Fully open tours.  I want to be able to dance among the forward thinking policy Makers!  

Edited April 28, 2020 by Judge Roybeanbag

[Horn Dogg 3808]

Do the strip clubs in Houston change the 3 ft rule to the 6 ft rule?  Asking for a friend.....

[conVINCEd 21468]

I’m extremely pleased to be part of the control group in this little experiment we are conducting.