Dallas Cowboys 2018 offseason thread

[Machinator 32,099]

2 minutes ago, In10se said:

When was the last time in the salary cap era a team won a super bowl while having a high priced receiver? 

What's your definition of "high-priced"? For comparison, Alshon Jeffrey was earning an average of $13 million a year this past season with the eagles, which put him in the top 10 among all receivers.

[cls0329 2]

When was the last time in the salary cap era a team won a super bowl while having a high priced receiver? 

Don't know that off the top of my head but I know Peyton was the only high priced QB to win it in a pretty large period. Teams don't typically win SBs if they overpay QB/RB/WR these days

[In10se 175]

6 minutes ago, Machinator said:

What's your definition of "high-priced"? For comparison, Alshon Jeffrey was earning an average of $13 million a year this past season with the eagles, which put him in the top 10 among all receivers.

That's borderline. I was thinking top 5 to top 10 in the league... defintely Dez range. 

Before that it was probably a while. Maybe Marvin Harrison in 2007? Just seems like paying a lot of money for anything other than OL, DL, and DB doesn't lead to many championships. 

Then take into account when that high priced receiver is a one trick pony who has seemingly lost that trick due to age and yet, according to Stephen Jones, is also a distraction with his antics. I think I'm firmly in the cut Dez now camp. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by In10se

[Angry Gorilla 1,769]

Julio Jones (#8) should have won last year.

[Dr Fear 1,268]

Atlanta should have won the super bowl 2 years ago with a high priced WR and QB, the cap didn't make them blow the 28-3 lead.

[In10se 175]

7 minutes ago, cls0329 said:

13 minutes ago, In10se said:

When was the last time in the salary cap era a team won a super bowl while having a high priced receiver? 

Don't know that off the top of my head but I know Peyton was the only high priced QB to win it in a pretty large period. Teams don't typically win SBs if they overpay QB/RB/WR these days

Im pretty sure Rothlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady were pretty high priced. Brady on the lower spectrum but definitely over 10 a year. 

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

Just now, Dr Fear said:

Atlanta should have won the super bowl 2 years ago with a high priced WR and QB, the cap didn't make them blow the 28-3 lead.

They also should have beaten the Eagles but their coaching staff pulled a Garrett/Linehan when they got inside the 10 at the end of the game. And royally fucked that up.

[In10se 175]

Just now, Dr Fear said:

Atlanta should have won the super bowl 2 years ago with a high priced WR and QB, the cap didn't make them blow the 28-3 lead.

Yeah, but they didnt and they returned that same crew this year and couldn't score in the playoffs against a team their defense was owning. 

[Machinator 32,099]

8 minutes ago, In10se said:

Yeah, but they didnt and they returned that same crew this year and couldn't score in the playoffs against a team their defense was owning. 

That's arguably the difference between Kyle Shanahan as OC and Steve Sarkisian.

Though ATL did suffer from some OL injury issues this season, so you could argue that having a fair amount of salary allocated to QB and WR prevented them from spending more for OL depth.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Machinator

[Farkimedes 23]

Dez is gonna be gone as of Friday afternoon.

https://twitter.com/fishsports/status/984134350584377352

 

[Farkimedes 23]

I would like to go on record as writing that cutting Dez is a mistake. This is type of thing dumb teams do, and Dallas fully qualifies as a stupid team. Dallas could potentially be a 5 win team in 2018 if Tyron Smith's back keeps acting up.

[Viper 12,112]

I think I agree. Give him another year to gel with Dak and see how it goes, but I'd also be ready to draft a WR this year or next year (though maybe not in the 1st round this year unless it's really BPA).

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

1 hour ago, Farkimedes said:

I would like to go on record as writing that cutting Dez is a mistake. This is type of thing dumb teams do, and Dallas fully qualifies as a stupid team. Dallas could potentially be a 5 win team in 2018 if Tyron Smith's back keeps acting up.

Oh stop. Dez is not worth that many wins. He never has been. This offense was at its peak when he was not in the lineup in 2016. Dak did not have to worry about getting Dez the ball. Because we all know when he's not getting his way, he throws a hissy fit and causes issues on the sidelines. Dez is a one trick pony and he can't even do that well these days. He just is not worth the money we are paying. So move on. There is no real use for him here. Romo already mentioned how hard it was for them to get on the same page. It took long hours and dedication. Why? Because he does not know the route tree. It's hard for him to get open. So Romo had to learn how to just throw it up, which is not that natural to a QB.

If we are definitely getting rid of Dez, I would have liked to sign Butler. He showed signs when Dez was not in the lineup. 

While we are at it, move on from Witten as well. 

Also, he's meeting with Jerry. That tells you the signs point to him staying more than if he was meeting with his son. Jerry is emotionally attached to these players. Like Witten for example. That meeting has supposed to have already happened weeks ago.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Vic Mackey

[Get ln My Van 927]

Put me in the don’t cut Dez camp

[TornACL 7,722]

2 hours ago, In10se said:

That's borderline. I was thinking top 5 to top 10 in the league... defintely Dez range. 

Before that it was probably a while. Maybe Marvin Harrison in 2007? Just seems like paying a lot of money for anything other than OL, DL, and DB doesn't lead to many championships. 

Then take into account when that high priced receiver is a one trick pony who has seemingly lost that trick due to age and yet, according to Stephen Jones, is also a distraction with his antics. I think I'm firmly in the cut Dez now camp. 

I think there's a lot here. This running storyline this offseason about how Dez is working with a route-running guru....that feels like a Dez's camp story, not a Cowboys front office story. Like Dez's camp trying to prove his worth to the Joneses, et al.

So it only took him how many seasons to actually get serious about his craft and not just rely on physical advantage? I'd cut him for that alone.

Edited April 11, 2018 by TornACL

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

Read an article on CBS Sports and this mock draft day trades said we could get Earl Thomas for our 2nd and 4th round picks. And the market is not what Seattle thought it would be. I would do this hypothetical trade. Safety is a huge need. You aren't finding an Earl Thomas talent with either of those picks. And we have another 4th rd pick as well. He comes in and solidifies the back end of this defense right away.

[In10se 175]

Considering they're destined to blow that 2nd rounder on Joe Fuckup or some injury prone chode anyway then why not. 

What moves would they need to make to get that contract under salary cap? That's only a move you make if you feel you are one solid free safety away from a SB run level defense and you can fit it under the cap without gutting your team. I dont think they can but I'm not sure about that. 

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

Cutting Dez should do the trick to make that move. I'd much rather have Earl than Dez for the next few years

[Bone3421 716]

Its a business and i know dez isnt worth the price but lets not forget he is an all time cowboy and was one incredibly incomprehensible dumbass call away from providing one of the biggest plays in COWBOYS play-off history

I want dez on this team and we dont have anyone better...period

Edited April 11, 2018 by Bone3421

[Farkimedes 23]

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Read an article on CBS Sports and this mock draft day trades said we could get Earl Thomas for our 2nd and 4th round picks. And the market is not what Seattle thought it would be. I would do this hypothetical trade. Safety is a huge need. You aren't finding an Earl Thomas talent with either of those picks. And we have another 4th rd pick as well. He comes in and solidifies the back end of this defense right away.

Blowing a 2nd round pick for 1 extra year of a safety is the type of move you make if you are going ALL IN like the Rams or Eagles. I'm fan with that, if that's the play. But don't tell me that Dallas should cut Dez, which would ensure the offense is not good enough to win the title for the next couple of seasons, then tell me we should burn a 2nd rounder for one extra year of a safety.

[Farkimedes 23]

3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Oh stop. Dez is not worth that many wins. He never has been. This offense was at its peak when he was not in the lineup in 2016. Dak did not have to worry about getting Dez the ball. Because we all know when he's not getting his way, he throws a hissy fit and causes issues on the sidelines. Dez is a one trick pony and he can't even do that well these days. He just is not worth the money we are paying. So move on. There is no real use for him here. Romo already mentioned how hard it was for them to get on the same page. It took long hours and dedication. Why? Because he does not know the route tree. It's hard for him to get open. So Romo had to learn how to just throw it up, which is not that natural to a QB.

If we are definitely getting rid of Dez, I would have liked to sign Butler. He showed signs when Dez was not in the lineup. 

While we are at it, move on from Witten as well. 

Also, he's meeting with Jerry. That tells you the signs point to him staying more than if he was meeting with his son. Jerry is emotionally attached to these players. Like Witten for example. That meeting has supposed to have already happened weeks ago.

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.

I didn't write that Dez is worth that much. I'm not a fan of the current roster and I don't like the moves they are making. Cutting Dez + Tyron having back problems is a recipe for disaster. This offense was bad for long stretches last season, and those numbers had nothing to do w/ Zeke going out.

Dez is most certainly not a one trick pony. Dez's problem is that his QB can't do what he needs, which is to hit him on the move and let him get YAC without having to start from a stopped position. Dallas WRs were near the bottom in YAC, and most of that has to do w/ what Dak is capable of right now. Dez has never been an elite route runner, but the idea that the only thing he can do is run down field is idiotic and refuted by large amounts of evidence. 

 

[Ricky Butler 2,732]

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Read an article on CBS Sports and this mock draft day trades said we could get Earl Thomas for our 2nd and 4th round picks. And the market is not what Seattle thought it would be. I would do this hypothetical trade. Safety is a huge need. You aren't finding an Earl Thomas talent with either of those picks. And we have another 4th rd pick as well. He comes in and solidifies the back end of this defense right away.

I covet draft picks, but how could a Longhorn not want Earl back there teaching the young secondary. Darren Woodson Effect 2.0, IMO

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

Just now, Ricky Butler said:

I covet draft picks, but how could a Longhorn not want Earl back there teaching the young secondary. Darren Woodson Effect 2.0, IMO

I don't care if he was a Sooner or Aggy, his talent would be great for this defense. We are desperate for safety play. 

[Ricky Butler 2,732]

14 minutes ago, Farkimedes said:

Blowing a 2nd round pick for 1 extra year of a safety is the type of move you make if you are going ALL IN like the Rams or Eagles. I'm fan with that, if that's the play. But don't tell me that Dallas should cut Dez, which would ensure the offense is not good enough to win the title for the next couple of seasons, then tell me we should burn a 2nd rounder for one extra year of a safety.

You haven't been reading this thread. The Cowboys have drafted terribly for 20 years. This move insures they protect themselves from themselves.

[Ricky Butler 2,732]

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

I don't care if he was a Sooner or Aggy, his talent would be great for this defense. We are desperate for safety play. 

I believe it's called "a cherry on top."

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

Definitely. I hope we can still land him. 

[In10se 175]

Question to ponder: what do you do if it gets to pick 19 and Lamar Jackson is still there? You have 2 more years of Dak before you have to pay him but was he a product of that great line and running game in 2016? Jackson has similar accuracy issues as Dak but is so much more dynamic with the ball in his hands that he would be a great fit for the type of offense they've built here around high priced OL and RB. That type of offense with Jackson also wouldn't need high priced receivers as just guys who can run quality routes and get open on QB scrambles would work best. 

Is that gamble worth the opportunity cost?

[Patrick Bateman 3,931]

Just now, In10se said:

Question to ponder: what do you do if it gets to pick 19 and Lamar Jackson is still there? You have 2 more years of Dak before you have to pay him but was he a product of that great line and running game in 2016? Jackson has similar accuracy issues as Dak but is so much more dynamic with the ball in his hands that he would be a great fit for the type of offense they've built here around high priced OL and RB. That type of offense with Jackson also wouldn't need high priced receivers as just guys who can run quality routes and get open on QB scrambles would work best. 

Is that gamble worth the opportunity cost?

LOL..... you go on with your draft and hopefully draft a playmaker on defense..... We're not drafting Lamar Jackson, nor should we.

[Mileslong 4,728]

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.
I didn't write that Dez is worth that much. I'm not a fan of the current roster and I don't like the moves they are making. Cutting Dez + Tyron having back problems is a recipe for disaster. This offense was bad for long stretches last season, and those numbers had nothing to do w/ Zeke going out.
Dez is most certainly not a one trick pony. Dez's problem is that his QB can't do what he needs, which is to hit him on the move and let him get YAC without having to start from a stopped position. Dallas WRs were near the bottom in YAC, and most of that has to do w/ what Dak is capable of right now. Dez has never been an elite route runner, but the idea that the only thing he can do is run down field is idiotic and refuted by large amounts of evidence. 
 

You seem to leave out the part where Dez can’t get separation and when he does he just drops the ball more than any other WR in the league

[Post Oak 20,270]

4 hours ago, Farkimedes said:

I would like to go on record as writing that cutting Dez is a mistake. This is type of thing dumb teams do, and Dallas fully qualifies as a stupid team. Dallas could potentially be a 5 win team in 2018 if Tyron Smith's back keeps acting up.

Co-sign

[futureman 22,544]

5 hours ago, In10se said:

Im pretty sure Rothlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady were pretty high priced. Brady on the lower spectrum but definitely over 10 a year. 

other than the fact that “over 10 a year” is a drop in the fucking bucket for a starting qb your argument is airtight. 

[In10se 175]

13 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

LOL..... you go on with your draft and hopefully draft a playmaker on defense..... We're not drafting Lamar Jackson, nor should we.

I Thu k you seriously discount Jackson's ability. Much better ability throwing the ball already than Vick ever had, and by all accounts he works hard to improve and is coachable unlike Vick who coasted on pure athletic ability. Vick even said he thinks Jackson is more dynamic with the ball than he was at the same age. 

I don't know id I do it but it's not a crazy idea. We dont know if Dak can be anything more than a solid game manager and paying a game manager 25+ million a year would be a disaster. 

Jackson has the potential to be more than that. Might be worth a 19 to find out. 

[In10se 175]

I just meant over 10 a year because Brady took such a massive discount to get talent there with him mainly because his wife makes a ton. Without that discount he's worth the top money in the league. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by In10se

[Vic Mackey 47,151]

No way we spend a 1st round pick on a QB nor should we. Dak had a bad stretch over a2 year span and people are already ready to move on. I don't get it. We need a guy who can make an impact on day 1 for the foreseeable future. That isn't Lamar as we have the QB we want right now. Dak was actually having a great season until Zeke got suspended. Get him some actual coaches and a system that is designed to fit his strengths and you will see a big difference.

Dak is never going to be a Brady type but you don't need one of those to win. But we definitely need better coaching and a better defense to help him out.

[In10se 175]

I disagree only from the standpoint that a pick of Jackson immediately upgrades your backup QB spot and he has 2 years to sit behind Dak and learn. If Dak falters then you still have 3 more years of Jackson at cheap money after that and you can cut Dak loose. If Dak shows he can be the guy then you have a valuable trade chip if Jackson shows anything at all during preseason and any time he plays. 

I only do this if a potentially dominant DL like Vea or Smith from Georgia doesn't make it there. I'd rather use 19 on a potential QB playmaker than a receiver, another OL, or a reach. 

[DougO 5,256]

I'm not sure what the point was. Alshon was decently high priced, which is pretty much in line with a bloated market. But he certainly didn't put up elite receiver numbers, with 57 catches for under 800 yards. Their TE had more catches and yards despite missing two games.

Edited April 12, 2018 by DougO

[In10se 175]

Point was paying more than a few million a year for a receiver is usually a recipe for not winning SBs. More reason to cut Distraction Dez and move on with the ground and pound game on offense. 

[Drew 2,522]

3 hours ago, Mileslong said:

 

You seem to leave out the part where Dez can’t get separation and when he does he just drops the ball more than any other WR in the league

 

That’s all Daks fault. Or coaching. I mean that’s all I hear on the radio and read ok twitter. It can’t be in any way Dezs fault at all. 

I for one don’t want to see him cut, I think it’ll be a much better idea to cut him next year if he doesn’t step up  but cutting him now would be a mistake(unless they need to cap space to swing a Trade or something like for Thomas) 

I hope they take a defensive player in the first round. Not a WR.  I can maybe see a OG if they’re wiped out(that’s the biggest weakness on the team, not sure why people keep overlooking it)

 

They shouldn’t take a QB. If Dak is bad they’ll be drafting high next year. They can get WRs and DTs in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Don’t waste 19 on a pure 1 tech(Vea is supposed to be more than just a 1 tech, but if they go with Payne or Phillips I’ll scream). 

 

I wouldnt even hate a potential stud LB there. Just to make sure you don’t have the massive drop off when Lee eventually misses time. 

[In10se 175]

A free safety to replace Heath and a 1 tech who you can leave in on 3rd down to push the pocket are the two biggest needs on the team. If Vea is there that's the pick. If not then it gets interesting. 

[Amobie 58]

12 hours ago, In10se said:

I Thu k you seriously discount Jackson's ability. Much better ability throwing the ball already than Vick ever had, and by all accounts he works hard to improve and is coachable unlike Vick who coasted on pure athletic ability. Vick even said he thinks Jackson is more dynamic with the ball than he was at the same age.

I'm sure if you did some digging you'd find out that Jackson and Vick have the same agent or some shit.  Talk about cliche.

[Patrick Bateman 3,931]

15 hours ago, In10se said:

I Thu k you seriously discount Jackson's ability. Much better ability throwing the ball already than Vick ever had, and by all accounts he works hard to improve and is coachable unlike Vick who coasted on pure athletic ability. Vick even said he thinks Jackson is more dynamic with the ball than he was at the same age. 

I don't know id I do it but it's not a crazy idea. We dont know if Dak can be anything more than a solid game manager and paying a game manager 25+ million a year would be a disaster. 

Jackson has the potential to be more than that. Might be worth a 19 to find out. 

Yes, you're probably right..... I have questions about Jackson's ability to succeed on this level.  But really I don't think we're in the market for a QB in the 1st round so I think it's a non-starter.  We haven't had him in for a visit.  In fact, we really haven't had any QB that has been reported in for a visit except for Kenny Hill, who came in on his own.  

Moving on, for those that wanted Jarvis Landry..... Uhm, yea.

 

[Viper 12,112]

All these crazy WR contracts are why I don't think there's a need to cut Dez right now. His pay isn't crazy anymore compared to some of these contracts.

[In10se 175]

3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Yes, you're probably right..... I have questions about Jackson's ability to succeed on this level.  But really I don't think we're in the market for a QB in the 1st round so I think it's a non-starter.  We haven't had him in for a visit.  In fact, we really haven't had any QB that has been reported in for a visit except for Kenny Hill, who came in on his own.  

Moving on, for those that wanted Jarvis Landry..... Uhm, yea.

 

There's no way this organization thinks outside the box enough to take him, but if there was a place in the league he could succeed it would be a place with a top level OL and a top 2-3 RB. 

That level of money for receivers is stupid. Of course it's the Browns. 

[In10se 175]

2 hours ago, Viper said:

All these crazy WR contracts are why I don't think there's a need to cut Dez right now. His pay isn't crazy anymore compared to some of these contracts.

I agree unless one of the these two conditions exists: Dez really is a much bigger asshole and giant distraction than the Cowboys have ever let on, or they're actually going to do something with that 8 to 9 million they save this year.

Edited April 12, 2018 by In10se

[Amobie 58]

19 minutes ago, In10se said:

I agree unless one of the these two conditions exists: Dez really is a much bigger asshole and giant distraction than the Cowboys have ever let on, or they're actually going to do something with that 8 to 9 million they save this year.

post june 1st he saves the club 12 million is my understanding...

 

restructuring the deal could save close to 6..

Edited April 12, 2018 by Amobie

[In10se 175]

Is it that much? That would basically be his entire 2018 salary and cut the cap number down to 4 and change. 

[Gene Parmesan 4,014]

If that's the actual cap hit I would say cut him.  I was under the impression that it was much higher which led me to the just keep him camp. 

[Dr Fear 1,268]

2018 salary is $12.5 million, dead cap is $8 million, they can cut him with a post June 1st designation and spread it out over 2018 and 2019, so that would free up $8.5 million in cap space for 2018.

If you are not on Spotrac, you guys are just doing it all wrong.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/dez-bryant-6533/

[Amobie 58]

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys

Over the cap has him listed as $8,500,000 savings pre June 1 cut.

Post June 1..  $12,500,000 savings..

Through a restructuring we can save up to $5,792,500.

 

I have no idea who is right but that's where I got my info.

[Dr Fear 1,268]

4 minutes ago, Amobie said:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys

Over the cap has him listed as $8,500,000 savings pre June 1 cut.

Post June 1..  $12,500,000 savings..

Through a restructuring we can save up to $5,792,500.

 

I have no idea who is right but that's where I got my info.

Irregardless of that fact, it should be noted that Earl Thomas is due exactly $8.5 million for 2018.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/earl-thomas-6523/