Dallas Cowboys 2018 offseason thread

[Hagbard Celine 10921]

too many drops of very catchable balls for 17 million.

much better ways to spend the money.

if he was really all about the shirt, then play for the minimum and be a hero.

unpossible?

bye.

[mdmost 43045]

If they didn't offer him a pay cut but are moving him before June 1st then why wait this long? 

[DougO 5256]

 

I guess Hurns can have 88 back now.

[Mo Horn 8854]

 I'm in the this was the right decision camp. Too much money, too much drama, not enough production. He had some great catches but he also had some huge drops and other screw ups. I don't think he scared opposing DBs or offensive coordinators. Best of luck to him somewhere else.

And we are way too early to know how good Dak is or is going to be. But his upside is great imho.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Mo Horn

[Vic Mackey 47139]

3 minutes ago, DougO said:

It's not about replacing what they had in Dez. It's about getting a receiver that's actually a legit number one, which was a need with or without Dez. The odds of finding one got slimmer.

Dez was not a legit #1, though. That was my point. We aren't replacing Dez of old. The Dez after the surgeries just isn't the same. I mean he was our #1 WR but every team by default has to have a #1. It's like being an ace in baseball. Just because you are your teams #1 option does not mean you are an ace. You just happen to be the best on your team. That is Dez.

Dallas needs to learn (and maybe they are), you don't need some all world guy to be your #1. You can have a mixture of guys who compliment the QB and the offense very well but aren't your so called #1 guys and top flight WRs like Brown, Jones, Beckham, Megatron. 

Look at the Lions after losing Megatron. They didn't go out and try and replace him with some all world talent. In fact, Stafford and that offense actually became better when Megatron left. Hell he became an MVP candidate by many accounts in 2016 before he got hurt. And no Megatron. This offense is going to be just fine and actually more efficient without Dez. 

[Amobie 58]

Sucks it had to end like that but I can see the logic behind the move.  Definitely going to free up some cash.

 

 

[michaelpshayes 417]

 

[DougO 5256]

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

Dez was not a legit #1, though. That was my point.

No, he isn't. But he's the closest thing they had by far.

Teams don't necessarily need an all-world guy, but those teams have really accurate passers like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. Dak pretty much needs that guy.

[DougO 5256]

Hurns can do a lot of what Dez does. But he's a bit of a basket catcher. He's not going to win the contested balls and jump balls. He has a better feel for open spaces. He has to be used differently. The bigger question is if he can play healthy all season, and that's a big question. It's not something to be a season on.

[Mo Horn 8854]

 

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

26 minutes ago, DougO said:

Without Dez they are almost locked in to drafting a WR in round 1. That's bad because now team's know they have to trade above Dallas to get Ridley or DJ Moore, and they'll probably miss out and have to reach like they usually do. Good possibility of a trade down to take a next-option guy, or have to trade up and burn some good picks, and end up with a domino effect shitty draft. We've seen that show before.

I don't think we're locked in.  Does it become a priority?  Yes.  But we could go WR in the 2nd round or even 3rd..... Is anyone dead or just have a leg amputated?  We'll probably draft him in the 2nd.

[DougO 5256]

5 minutes ago, Amobie said:

Sucks it had to end like that but I can see the logic behind the move.  Definitely going to free up some cash.

 

 

I give them credit for making a ballsy decision. But their long term plan was like most of their other long term plans, and they're going to have to get really lucky again to not take a step back.

[DougO 5256]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I don't think we're locked in.  Does it become a priority?  Yes.  But we could go WR in the 2nd round or even 3rd..... Is anyone dead or just have a leg amputated?  We'll probably draft him in the 2nd.

Yeah, I would rather Dallas just always trade away their number two and three every year by default. I've been saying that for about two decades now, because their typical philosophy with those picks is terribad.

[Vic Mackey 47139]

2 minutes ago, DougO said:

No, he isn't. But he's the closest thing they had by far.

Teams don't necessarily need an all-world guy, but those teams have really accurate passers like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. Dak pretty much needs that guy.

But Dez doesn't fit Dak at all. That was the issue. If Dez was as good as he thought, he would have made Dak better. Why is this on Dak to make Dez better as a 1 and 2 year starter when  Dez is supposed to be this great WR? Should be the other way around. People are saying watch Dez go succeed with Rodgers or Brady. Well shit, if Dez needs all pro QBs to succeed, that is kind of damning to him, right? 

Dak needs guys who can run routes correctly and dependable when you throw them the ball. Dez was a one trick pony. And can be good at that but you have to have a QB who knows how to be a little unconventional at times i.e. throw it up. Dak is not a throw it up QB. He works best when he knows where guys will be. Dez was an ad lib WR who worked best when you tell him to just go up and get the ball. Like backyard football. Hell he's almost 30 and just now got around to learning a route tree or off the line separation.

[Rustic Horn 929]

 

[DougO 5256]

1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

But Dez doesn't fit Dak at all. That was the issue. If Dez was as good as he thought, he would have made Dak better. Why is this on Dak to make Dez better as a 1 and 2 year starter when  Dez is supposed to be this great WR? Should be the other way around. People are saying watch Dez go succeed with Rodgers or Brady. Well shit, if Dez needs all pro QBs to succeed, that is kind of damning to him, right? 

Dak needs guys who can run routes correctly and dependable when you throw them the ball. Dez was a one trick pony. And can be good at that but you have to have a QB who knows how to be a little unconventional at times i.e. throw it up. Dak is not a throw it up QB. He works best when he knows where guys will be. Dez was an ad lib WR who worked best when you tell him to just go up and get the ball. Like backyard football. Hell he's almost 30 and just now got around to learning a route tree or off the line separation.

It's not. Beasley fell off the map and Williams became even less of a factor. Hurns isn't that guy by any stretch. He needs somebody else to draw coverage to be successful. They have nobody remaining to replace the only guy that could make a play. They needed to get one first, and phase out Dez, who could have served as a very good number 2 possession receiver in the short term. They should have started finding their new go-two guy two years ago.

[DougO 5256]

I fear the Cowboys could go TE if Ridley or Moore aren't there at their top pick.

That reminds me.The Browns cut Escobar today.

[Doc Holliday 199]

Bye, Dez!!

[Farkimedes 23]

Releasing Dez Bryant is what stupid teams do. Dallas is a stupid team, so of course they released him. 

For the "Dez never got open crowd", if you're curious you can check out WR Average YDS of Separation in 2017 which is a good ( not great, but certainly not bad ) indicator of how "open" a guy was. A few names from that list . . . 

1. Antonio Brown - 2.6 yards
2. Dez Bryant - 2.4 yards 
3. A.J. Green - 2.4 yards
4. Gronk - 2.2 yards
5. DeAndre Hopkins - 2.1 yards
6. Mike Evans - 2.1
7. Alshon Jeffrey - 1.8

Also, anyone that references 2015 in regards to Dez's stats is just being flagrantly dishonest and should be ignored. 

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

31 minutes ago, mdmost said:

If they didn't offer him a pay cut but are moving him before June 1st then why wait this long? 

Isn't he a post June 1st designated cut?  If he is, the question is why did they not wait until after the draft.  They've now shown another need....

 

[Vic Mackey 47139]

4 minutes ago, Farkimedes said:

Releasing Dez Bryant is what stupid teams do. Dallas is a stupid team, so of course they released him. 

For the "Dez never got open crowd", if you're curious you can check out WR Average YDS of Separation in 2017 which is a good ( not great, but certainly not bad ) indicator of how "open" a guy was. A few names from that list . . . 

1. Antonio Brown - 2.6 yards
2. Dez Bryant - 2.4 yards 
3. A.J. Green - 2.4 yards
4. Gronk - 2.2 yards
5. DeAndre Hopkins - 2.1 yards
6. Mike Evans - 2.1
7. Alshon Jeffrey - 1.8

Also, anyone that references 2015 in regards to Dez's stats is just being flagrantly dishonest and should be ignored. 

Well 2015-2017 weren't that good for Dez. His skills has been diminishing. It isn't just 2015.

[Amobie 58]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Isn't he a post June 1st designated cut?  If he is, the question is why did they not wait until after the draft.  They've now shown another need....

 

I can think of 2 possible reasons.

1) Give Dez a chance to find a new team before the draft so his options aren't as limited.

2) (more likely) That they want other teams to think we are making WR a draft priority when we aren't...  

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

15 minutes ago, Farkimedes said:

Releasing Dez Bryant is what stupid teams do. Dallas is a stupid team, so of course they released him. 

For the "Dez never got open crowd", if you're curious you can check out WR Average YDS of Separation in 2017 which is a good ( not great, but certainly not bad ) indicator of how "open" a guy was. A few names from that list . . . 

1. Antonio Brown - 2.6 yards
2. Dez Bryant - 2.4 yards 
3. A.J. Green - 2.4 yards
4. Gronk - 2.2 yards
5. DeAndre Hopkins - 2.1 yards
6. Mike Evans - 2.1
7. Alshon Jeffrey - 1.8

Also, anyone that references 2015 in regards to Dez's stats is just being flagrantly dishonest and should be ignored. 

It's horribly tracked stat and everyone pretty much knows it.  I always give credence to folks that are trying to use advanced metrics to better understand and mine value or talent, but the way it's tracked is extremely spurious.  I would give it little to no credence unless you want to start talking about all the guys like Ed Dickson, Austin Hooper, or Jack Doyle who are averaging more than 3.4 YPS..... Hopefully they'll refine how it's tracked in time.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

1 minute ago, Amobie said:

I can think of 2 possible reasons.

1) Give Dez a chance to find a new team before the draft so his options aren't as limited.

2) (more likely) That they want other teams to think we are making WR a draft priority when we aren't...  

Unfortunately, our front office has never actually thought 2 or 3 cars ahead.... I think it's more likely #1.

[Amobie 58]

Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

Unfortunately, our front office has never actually thought 2 or 3 cars ahead.... I think it's more likely #1.

Well they just cut a guy Jerry loves so this isn't the same front office from 10 years ago.  If this was old Jerry, Dez would have played out that contract and Romo would still be the QB.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I knew it was coming, but it still sucks. Even if he signs with an nfc east team, it’ll be hard for me to not root for Dez. Favorite cowboy of all time. His passion had everything to do with how much he cares about winning. I’ll throw up the X until the day I die. 

[Surly Bevo 25145]

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

1 minute ago, Amobie said:

Well they just cut a guy Jerry loves so this isn't the same front office from 10 years ago.  If this was old Jerry, Dez would have played out that contract and Romo would still be the QB.

Meh.... we did the same thing with Demarcus and Emmitt.... Let's no oversell this.  

 

[Farkimedes 23]

Stupid teams keep rolling over an injury prone QB's cap money.

Stupid teams sign OT's to ten year deals the continually restructure the deal so that it's somehow more expensive because they never have the cap in a working condition.

Stupid teams draft a RB in the top 5 when there was a "once every 5 years" quality CB on the board right behind him.

Stupid teams overpay their mediocre internal performers (T-Will / Crawford / Scandrick/ on and on ).

Stupid teams take risks in the 2nd round when the rest of the NFL has learned you need the surest thing possible because of how cheap the contract is ( basically everyone the last 5 years ).

Stupid teams ignore 2 of the 3 ways you can make your roster better (trades / free agents / draft). Dallas deals only with the draft.

Stupid teams prioritize window maximization over long term team quality.

Stupid teams cut a great WR when they have huge holes to fill elsewhere and no viable way to fill that hole for the next season.

For some reason I can't understand, Dallas has a history under Jerry Jones of unbelievable moronic WR moves. Cutting Dez this offseason. Over paying for T-WIll. The Miles Austin contract. the Laugh Out Loud putrid Roy Williams trade. The indescribably stupid Roy Williams contract extension. The overpay for Owens. The unspeakable Galloway trade. The "have y'all even watched football the last 3 seasons?" move w/ Rocket Ishmail.

The Dallas Cowboys are America's team.

America is stupid.

Therefore, the Dallas Cowboys are a stupid team.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12507]

Damn.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Dirk X West 772]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

the ex

[Funk Doctor Spock 12507]

These are killing me lol

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

 

ill never forget this game. As a team, we were reeling a little bit, the eagles were one game out of the division, and this game wasn’t basically for the division championship. Dez said, we aren’t losing today. Period. 

[Vic Mackey 47139]

I knew it was coming, but it still sucks. Even if he signs with an nfc east team, it’ll be hard for me to not root for Dez. Favorite cowboy of all time. His passion had everything to do with how much he cares about winning. I’ll throw up the X until the day I die. 

Cared about winning? Lmao. Wow. He cared about his stats and that's it. Don't believe his lip service. His actions proved he gave no shit about winning time and time again.

[DougO 5256]

18 minutes ago, Amobie said:

I can think of 2 possible reasons.

1) Give Dez a chance to find a new team before the draft so his options aren't as limited.

2) (more likely) That they want other teams to think we are making WR a draft priority when we aren't...  

The answer is: They just aren't very smart. Also see the way they cut Scandrick, a tradable player for whom they should have gotten some return for.

Edited April 13, 2018 by DougO

[DougO 5256]

3 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

14 minutes ago, youdunnf said:

I knew it was coming, but it still sucks. Even if he signs with an nfc east team, it’ll be hard for me to not root for Dez. Favorite cowboy of all time. His passion had everything to do with how much he cares about winning. I’ll throw up the X until the day I die. 

Cared about winning? Lmao. Wow. He cared about his stats and that's it. Don't believe his lip service. His actions proved he gave no shit about winning time and time again.

Dez is like Jerry Jones. He really cares about winning. He just doesn't have a clue how to do it, despite extreme self-confidence.

[DougO 5256]

 

OK, upon further review:

Dez dropped it.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

3 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

15 minutes ago, youdunnf said:

I knew it was coming, but it still sucks. Even if he signs with an nfc east team, it’ll be hard for me to not root for Dez. Favorite cowboy of all time. His passion had everything to do with how much he cares about winning. I’ll throw up the X until the day I die. 

Cared about winning? Lmao. Wow. He cared about his stats and that's it. Don't believe his lip service. His actions proved he gave no shit about winning time and time again.

This coming from the guy that said Cason Wentz was a scrub, and will always be a scrub, after his rookie year. Your judgement on anything football related speaks for itself.

[Farkimedes 23]

They aren't even cutting him post June 1st.

https://twitter.com/fishsports/status/984837866198007809

 

This was an organizational tug of war, not a well thought out decision. Fucking retards.

[Farkimedes 23]

20 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's horribly tracked stat and everyone pretty much knows it.  I always give credence to folks that are trying to use advanced metrics to better understand and mine value or talent, but the way it's tracked is extremely spurious.  I would give it little to no credence unless you want to start talking about all the guys like Ed Dickson, Austin Hooper, or Jack Doyle who are averaging more than 3.4 YPS..... Hopefully they'll refine how it's tracked in time.

I would disagree that it's a horrible tracked stat. Rather, I think it's somethign that's much more dependent on how opposing teams cover specific WRs than can be adequately covered in a single stat.

Look, I'm the douchebag that pays $70 a year so I can watch all the NFL games w/ the coaches tape. I don't have a specific number to quantify how open Dez was last season, but I also watched every single play he made last season w/ the coaches tape. That motherfucker was open. A lot. 

[BurdineBandit 815]

40 minutes ago, DougO said:

It's not. Beasley fell off the map and Williams became even less of a factor. Hurns isn't that guy by any stretch. He needs somebody else to draw coverage to be successful. They have nobody remaining to replace the only guy that could make a play. They needed to get one first, and phase out Dez, who could have served as a very good number 2 possession receiver in the short term. They should have started finding their new go-two guy two years ago.

I'm with Mackey on this. 2-3 years ago guys were shutting down the Cowboys' passing attack by bracketing Dez, so Beasley and Witten feasted. Williams has always been Williams. He is very average even as a #2 receiver. Last year (and part of the year before) guys were shutting down our offense by bracketing Beasley after it became clear Dez lost a step. His days of requiring a safety over the top and blanket coverage are over.

I've been pretty adamant for 2 years now that Dez need not be a focal point of the offense, for a mixture of reasons. Some of them on him, some of them on Dak, and some of them are just chemistry issues, but it's been apparent to me for 2 years that "get Dez into a rhythm, at any cost" was not a good offensive strategy. It caused forced passes from Dak to a receiver that sometimes wasn't open, sometimes wouldn't catch, or forced him into a throw that isn't his strong suit (Romo could float a jump ball to Dez, Dak isn't nearly as adept at that). Our offense was much more fluid relying on the ground game and then spreading the ball around to Beasley/Witten/Dez/Williams/whoever. But it was set up by the run game 1st, and the ability of everyone on the team to play to their strengths was sustainable. That's when our offense has been good.

[Amobie 58]

So now they only have 9 WRs on the team and 5 are practically locks.  The WR position has essentially been revamped through free agency so they don't really have to address it if they cover a couple other holes..  Guard is the biggest offensive need.  TE is still a situation that needs addressing and we could use another RB as an insurance policy.  I'd much rather have someone with speed that can play be split out to create mismatches like New Orleans does so well with Kamara.

 

 

[In10se 175]

2 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

WhT could have been.   I look forward to him being signed to a team with a coach who knows how to use him and  watch him win a Super Bowl with the patriots lol

Lulz. Belichick gets rid of dudes like this when they are in decline he doesnt brinh them on. 

Dez got flat contained by a lot of one on one coverage last year. 

Him being a giant bitch today on the way out strengthens my belief thsmat the main reason they cut him is because he acts like a giant asshole and the room is sick of him. Basically became a TO like casualty because of his mouth. 

[3adays 454]

Without daddy Jerry watching over him, it’s not going to end well for this guy. Possibility of being broke and in prison. 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Good riddance.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3928]

47 minutes ago, Farkimedes said:

I would disagree that it's a horrible tracked stat. Rather, I think it's somethign that's much more dependent on how opposing teams cover specific WRs than can be adequately covered in a single stat.

Look, I'm the douchebag that pays $70 a year so I can watch all the NFL games w/ the coaches tape. I don't have a specific number to quantify how open Dez was last season, but I also watched every single play he made last season w/ the coaches tape. That motherfucker was open. A lot. 

The methodology and process are poor for the stat all around.  And I don't necessarily disagree that Dez was open enough last year and his "death" is being oversold to a degree.  However, he was never going to be worth 16.5 million..... ever.  He wasn't worth 12.5 million currently, but that was Jerry's fault for backloading his contract so much.  I think Dez can still be a very productive player the next couple of years (I think he'll age poorly) and it's a shame he wouldn't consider a restructure or cut to stay, but the die was cast and the savings was too much for the front office I'm assuming.....

That said, it makes my disappointment even more profound that we didn't sign Meredith to an offer sheet.  Saints got him on the cheap.... Thompson's deal was simply stupid.

[TornACL 7722]

He'll make a fine player for somebody on a $5-$6M a year "prove-it deal", and the first time he goes over 100 yards in a game (his first 100 yard game since Nov 2016) some people will go nuts on here using that as proof Dallas should have kept him.

Because some fans are idiots.

I would have been excited to have Dez here for $6-$8M. At $16.5, hell to the no. I expected he'd be around on a cheaper contract so I'm surprised by today's announcement.

Edited April 13, 2018 by TornACL

[LW Goatman 1125]

[taybo20 2878]

Glad we cut him

[buffalobill989 167]

its all about money. come on down to buffalo and be no.2 dallas lol