Ex Cop and son kill unarmed black man jogging

[tx 3 putt 78,676]

1 hour ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Imagine having a law degree, watching that video and then releasing it because you think it clears the shooter.  Without that video these two guys walk. Free to spend their days quenching their thirst with Big Gulps of gravy.

 

it's not that hard to get a 'lawyereing' degree 

[Thatguy 9,362]

31 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks like it would be a stretch to make that a criminal trespass under Georgia law.  So they couldn't have validly citizens arrested him for that.  There's no felony shown, not even close.

That said, it is a little weird.  He doesn't do anything, but it kind of looks like he's eyeballing building materials.  Not a crime, though.

  According the Georgia Law it's not if the building has no doors and such on it.

 

  The crazy part of this story is that they caught up to him and he turned around and went back the other way. The guy shooting the video tried to box him in and failed. That's when they went far ahead and waited for him in the street. At that point this guy is looking at two people holding guns in front of him, and a guy that he knows is trying to box him in coming up behind him. So fight or flight has kicked in. He tries to run around the "safe" side of the truck. However, the son runs around the truck to meet him. That looks to be where he decides it's time to fight for his life. Anyone who knows all of the things that transpired and still comes to the conclusion that the Father and Son were merely practicing self defense is an idiot. They literally boxed this kid in and left him only to choices. Submit to 3 armed men who you don't know who are brandishing firearms at you, or fight for your life. This is why the guy shooting the video will likely be brought in as well.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Thatguy

[Cousin Strawberry 1,273]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks like it would be a stretch to make that a criminal trespass under Georgia law.  So they couldn't have validly citizens arrested him for that.  There's no felony shown, not even close.

That said, it is a little weird.  He doesn't do anything, but it kind of looks like he's eyeballing building materials.  Not a crime, though.

Not a criminal trespass. He had no notice that entry was forbidden.  That place is wide open. But agree its a little weird.  He enters the house from the garage and then leaves from a completely separate part of the house.  I have never entered a home under construction but I could see where someone else might think it was completely innocent. 

Those two fatties probably didn't set out to kill the kid but they are the only reason he is dead.

Fuck the videographer who claims he is completely innocent.  One of the fatties told the police that he also attempted to unsuccessfully block him in.  He is neck deep in this shit.  

Is the lesson here that fat people are dangerous?  

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 53,481]

Anyone else questioning the whole gun stolen out of my unlocked truck incident?  Great way to get your auto insurer to write you a check. 

[tx 3 putt 78,676]

all 3 need to hang 

 

[Cousin Strawberry 1,273]

5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Anyone else questioning the whole gun stolen out of my unlocked truck incident?  Great way to get your auto insurer to write you a check. 

Yeah.  It sounds like the fatties knew they fucked up and needed to make it sound like it was plausible that the kid stole a firearm and was possibly armed. 

[TwiceHorn 32,077]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Wtf is going on?  The attorney and son look like twins.  Attorney wearing a wig/fake beard but still.  Nobody else see the resemblance?  

You'd think an Okie would be more skilled at discerning different rednecks.

The beard on the lawdog is real enough.

https://tuckerandbrowning.com/about/

And he went to Oral Roberts for undergrad. Bwahaha.

Thought for a minute his law partner was his wife partner, but that's his paralegal.  He does criminal defense and trial work.  Hindsight bias is powerful shit, though.

[LongestHorn 772]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Seriously! Those guys are going to walk right in under the protection of Aryan Nations. It's gonna take a lot of cigs to get to them.

Cletus Sr is former LEO.  All bets are off.  

[conVINCEd 21,477]

1 minute ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Yeah.  It sounds like the fatties knew they fucked up and needed to make it sound like it was plausible that the kid stole a firearm and was possibly armed. 

You can make most any story stick if the local pd is on your side and you have a little time to get organized. 

[Cousin Strawberry 1,273]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Seriously! Those guys are going to walk right in under the protection of Aryan Nations. It's gonna take a lot of cigs to get to them.

Except one of the rules for Aryan Brotherhood is that you have to work out everyday.  That seems like a problem for these two.  Also, any belief that these two will be victims of prison violence should be taken with a grain of salt.  Both of those fatties are going to lose a leg or foot to diabetes in prison.  They will be in the medical unit away from GenPop.  

[TwiceHorn 32,077]

13 minutes ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Not a criminal trespass. He had no notice that entry was forbidden.  That place is wide open. But agree its a little weird.  He enters the house from the garage and then leaves from a completely separate part of the house.  I have never entered a home under construction but I could see where someone else might think it was completely innocent. 

Those two fatties probably didn't set out to kill the kid but they are the only reason he is dead.

Fuck the videographer who claims he is completely innocent.  One of the fatties told the police that he also attempted to unsuccessfully block him in.  He is neck deep in this shit.  

Is the lesson here that fat people are dangerous?  

 

 

Apparently, under Georgia law, you can commit a trespass if you enter with unlawful intent.  Which I guess makes it sort of an add-on charge to robbery or burglary or vandalism or whatnot.  Maybe you can make out an unlawful intent without showing commission of another crime, but that seems difficult.

And, my interpretation of the video is that he went around the front of the truck and was either shot or shot at, and then the struggle ensued.  But reasonable minds can disagree on that.

Have you seen a photo of Bryan Williams or William Bryan, the third fattie?

[Thatguy 9,362]

1 minute ago, LongestHorn said:

Cletus Sr is former LEO.  All bets are off.  

Not so sure. If the rumors are true that he was Klan, think about it from their perspective. A lot of white guys go in and end up siding with the Aryans simply because they need to bolster their numbers. However, these guys killed a black dude in cold blood in the street. Would you rather have a guy who you aren't sure is on your side, or a Klansman who is in there for shooting a black dude 3 times in the chest with a shotgun? Aryans might see them as useful. Or they might see them as their version of Kaepernick and let someone slide on them for two packs of Pall Malls. Who knows.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,729]

I’ve watched enough videos by Big Herc or Wes Watson to not believe these guys could be put in GP. Forget whether they’re protected by a gang, their presence would lead to riots.

[NorthLoop 14,466]

You been using that prison rape as your go-to a lot lately. Something I should know?

 

[Thatguy 9,362]

5 minutes ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Except one of the rules for Aryan Brotherhood is that you have to work out everyday.  That seems like a problem for these two.  Also, any belief that these two will be victims of prison violence should be taken with a grain of salt.  Both of those fatties are going to lose a leg or foot to diabetes in prison.  They will be in the medical unit away from GenPop.  

Lol, true! It's easy to workout when you have shit else to do with your time.

[OU Sucks 9,386]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:41 AM, Bruh Man said:

Photo of the DA with the killer. This is why Kaepernick kneeled. The entire system is fucked up.

 

Well, at least he gets to fill in his plaque now:

[conVINCEd 21,477]

1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

Lol, true! It's easy to workout when you have shit else to do with your time.

Well, we know they ain’t gonna be spending any time in the prison library.

[atomheartbevo 90,642]

6 hours ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Wait, rape is a horrific and disgusting act when it's committed outside a prison but it is an encouraged and justified act when it happens inside prison? 

Rape is OK sometimes?

Rape gave us Bonnie and Clyde.  Clyde was a little guy, and he was raped quite a bit in Texas prisons.  

[Cousin Strawberry 1,273]

Suspect there was one joke made about tagging and mounting him at some point after the shooting.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,345]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You'd think an Okie would be more skilled at discerning different rednecks.

The beard on the lawdog is real enough.

https://tuckerandbrowning.com/about/

And he went to Oral Roberts for undergrad. Bwahaha.

Thought for a minute his law partner was his wife partner, but that's his paralegal.  He does criminal defense and trial work.  Hindsight bias is powerful shit, though.

Oh I mean I know that’s not real.  But they look very similar.  North Georgia fuckface?

[Cousin Strawberry 1,273]

7 minutes ago, OU Sucks said:

Well, at least he gets to fill in his plaque now:

That dude 100% fishes from a tower boat when he goes to the coast.

[Tom 2,960]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:24 AM, Alvin89 said:

These idiots should be locked up to the maximum sentence. Its not that hard to say they are pieces of shit and this was clearly murder  and Lebróns comments were stupid and statistically wildly inaccurate at the same time. How come Lebrón never speaks about stories like the below article? Or we don’t have long threads about it?    Was this innocent old lady not hunted down? Selective outage is a hell of a thing.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/las-colinas-grandmother-murdered-by-cable-man-police-say/2274843/%3famp

 

You're upset there's not long threads every time someone gets murdered?  Let's differentiate the circumstances between these two events.  

Your link involves a murder of an old white woman by a black man who worked for a cable company.  The motive was robbery; she wasn't hunted down because of her race.  Obviously that doesn't make it okay, and it is a tragedy to this woman and any family and friends of hers and something that shouldn't happen to anybody.  The article is short on all the details, but it appears he was identified and arrested within a couple of days and charged with capital murder.  Not exactly 12 pages worth of discussion there, but nobody ever stopped you from making a thread that probably would have seen some views and a few "T&P's" posted.

Contrast that with this story.  Now, we're talking about two white men who hunted down a guy who was simply jogging through a neighborhood when he was chased down in a vehicle and gunned down in murder.  Possible flimsy motive that maybe he stopped and looked at a construction site, or there was a break-in in the neighborhood at some point with somebody who may have also been black.  Actual motives seem to be racial.  However, in this case it took over two months and this story becoming viral nationally before the men were arrested and charged. The original DA shrugged and looked away.  That is worthy of discussion and why there is 12 pages on this.  That is where the outrage comes from.  If these men were arrested in February on site, there probably wouldn't be a thread.  

I'm also guessing that if there was a thread about the poor old Las Colinas woman who was murdered in your link, there wouldn't be a handful of posters saying, "Maybe we shouldn't rush to judgment before we see all of the facts or the video.  Maybe he had a reason to murder and rob the old white lady."  Selective hypocrisy is a thing.

Hope this clears things up.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Tom

[Cousin Strawberry 1,273]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:24 AM, Alvin89 said:

These idiots should be locked up to the maximum sentence. Its not that hard to say they are pieces of shit and this was clearly murder  and Lebróns comments were stupid and statistically wildly inaccurate at the same time. How come Lebrón never speaks about stories like the below article? Or we don’t have long threads about it?    Was this innocent old lady not hunted down? Selective outage is a hell of a thing.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/las-colinas-grandmother-murdered-by-cable-man-police-say/2274843/%3famp

This might be the worst post I have ever read.  She wasn't hunted down because of her race.  She was a crime victim.  Are you tarded? There is no way you believe that the article you linked and the subject of this thread are similar.

[Huckleberry 34,636]

I've entered plenty of homes under construction when just the framing is up. My neighborhood wasn't completed when I moved in. I mean I didn't give a crap about them but my wife loves looking at different houses and she would go to all the homes under construction and look around the framing and try to predict what was what then look at the pictures when it was finished and up for sale. So I got dragged along on dog walks around the neighborhood.

We were never chased and shot, though, so probably a different deal.

[Brian Fantana 6,865]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks like it would be a stretch to make that a criminal trespass under Georgia law.  So they couldn't have validly citizens arrested him for that.  There's no felony shown, not even close.

That said, it is a little weird.  He doesn't do anything, but it kind of looks like he's eyeballing building materials.  Not a crime, though.

FWIW, I've done literally that exact same thing before. I wandered into a home under construction with realtor signs in the yard when I was around 19-20 when I was jogging out of pure idle curiousity since I had never been inside a house being built before. Got yelled at by one of the guys, left and continued my run.

Idk if he's doing the same thing or not but it's not like he was going to be able to stuff a power drill down his gym shorts or anything anyway.

[closetohumping 17,816]

9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

FWIW, I've done literally that exact same thing before. I wandered into a home under construction with realtor signs in the yard when I was around 19-20 when I was jogging out of pure idle curiousity since I had never been inside a house being built before. Got yelled at by one of the guys, left and continued my run.

Idk if he's doing the same thing or not but it's not like he was going to be able to stuff a power drill down his gym shorts or anything anyway.

Is that a fishing pole in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

[fattyflattie 4,640]

10 hours ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

That dude 100% fishes from a tower boat when he goes to the coast.

Buh.  More of a “natural bait” guy I’d suspect. 

[TwiceHorn 32,077]

9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

FWIW, I've done literally that exact same thing before. I wandered into a home under construction with realtor signs in the yard when I was around 19-20 when I was jogging out of pure idle curiousity since I had never been inside a house being built before. Got yelled at by one of the guys, left and continued my run.

Idk if he's doing the same thing or not but it's not like he was going to be able to stuff a power drill down his gym shorts or anything anyway.

I have too, like Huck, frequently dragged by my wife.  And she likes to go into them when they're past framing and into sheetrocking and beyond.  And that makes me a little nervous.  But overall, I'd say walking into a house under construction is a normal and understandable thing for people to do.

I will tell you, though, that we didn't spend much time in the garage, or any one place apparently staring at a stack of sheetrock or other building materials.  Which is what makes that video a little strange to me.  But it aint a crime, unless it demonstrates an "unlawful intent" as required by the Georgia statute.

Edited May 10, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Neonmoon 38,130]

12 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

 

 It’s hilarious that racist idiots will see this and think “just out for a jog” my ass. First off, even if he was casing the joint, that is not a crime, and that doesn’t permit a citizen to use lethal force to apprehend. Your duty as a citizen is to inform the property owner at most. Secondly, since I and many other whites have done this exact same activity many times and no one called the police, it is racist as fuck to assume the person is committing a crime. All this video proves is that he is a normal person, that sees something under construction, and wants to see what it look like to try and picture what it might become. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

11 hours ago, Tom said:

I'm also guessing that if there was a thread about the poor old Las Colinas woman who was murdered in your link, there wouldn't be a handful of posters saying, "Maybe we shouldn't rush to judgment before we see all of the facts or the video.  Maybe he had a reason to murder and rob the old white lady."  Selective hypocrisy is a thing.

 

You are missing all the important questions like, “How long do you think it’ll take him to be raped” and “how many daily buttrapes do you think he’ll see?”   Maybe some deep introspection into how often his family would think about his rapes and eventual suicide, and how that would affect them psychologically. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

All this video proves is that he is a normal person, that sees something under construction, and wants to see what it look like to try and picture what it might become. 

I dgaf if he tried to stick the entire house in his pocket and jog off; not an acceptable reason to murder someone.  

[TwiceHorn 32,077]

11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I dgaf if he tried to stick the entire house in his pocket and jog off; not an acceptable reason to murder someone.  

Of course not.

Nonetheless, because the law is an ass, we have to run the legal traps on it all.

If he was committing a felony, and they had reason to believe it, then their citizens arrest was "valid."

I don't believe, however, that that gives them the right to use deadly force, even under a self-defense theory, which is probably independent of the validity of the citizens arrest.

And this is going to provoke comments from the gallery like "but Twice, the law IS an ass, why can't it be just common sense???"

Well, believe it or not, most of the time these technicalities are intended to mimic common sense but impose some order on the analysis and that is for your protection against the government.

Edited May 10, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[fattyflattie 4,640]

@TwiceHorn I agree.  

[po elvis 2,141]

Very unlikely these guys will be found guilty of anything if this goes to trial. 

[atomheartbevo 90,642]

2 minutes ago, po elvis said:

Very unlikely these guys will be found guilty of anything if this goes to trial. 

GBI being the ones to arrest them gives me some hope.  

[conVINCEd 21,477]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

GBI being the ones to arrest them gives me some hope.  

Unless the GBI is also serving as a jury of their peers it won’t matter.

[atomheartbevo 90,642]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

Unless the GBI is also serving as a jury of their peers it won’t matter.

I just think it gives it more credence than if it were handled by locals.  

It’s going to be a fucking circus though, given the timing   

 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

31 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Of course not.

Nonetheless, because the law is an ass, we have to run the legal traps on it all.

If he was committing a felony, and they had reason to believe it, then their citizens arrest was "valid."

I don't believe, however, that that gives them the right to use deadly force, even under a self-defense theory, which is probably independent of the validity of the citizens arrest.

And this is going to provoke comments from the gallery like "but Twice, the law IS an ass, why can't it be just common sense???"

Well, believe it or not, most of the time these technicalities are intended to mimic common sense but impose some order on the analysis and that is for your protection against the government.

What is the standard for determining whether a reasonable person making a citizen's arrest has reason to believe they are arresting someone that has committed a felony?  Arresting someone on a known existing warrant and arresting someone caught directly in the act seem to be reasonable.  

Arresting a person based on their ethnicity because someone of their same ethnicity may have done something prior.  That's never reasonable, IMO.

Let's say they don't kill him and instead handcuff him and take him to the station. Does he have a case for unlawful imprisonment or kidnapping. Also, as an innocent person who has not committed a felony, he has no reason to believe that they are acting lawfully. A reasonable person in his situation will always assume they are there to kill or kidnap him and will act in self defense accordingly.

Much like self defense law, citizen's arrest law needs to be reeled in. Mistake of fact should never be acceptable in either case.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

They should be put under a suicide watch, and those guards who were watching Epstein should be hired.

[TwiceHorn 32,077]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

Twice:

Talking legally only, as I recollect the "commission of a felony" stipulation as it relates to engagement had a few qualifiers.

1) The person engaging persons suspected must have personally witnessed sad crime. Not got a phone call, text nor Facebook post from a neighbor.

2) That in order to engage with said person committing personally witnessed felony it must be their property that was stolen or destroyed. 

3) Unless another person's life is visibly/clearly/demonstrably under threat during said commission on felony.

4) That use of deadly force is only justified when the person engaging with alleged felonious perpetrator provides sufficient reason to believe the pursuers life is in danger.

This is just some of what I recall some time ago when researching the subject. So amusingly, I don't believe it's justified IF they saw him stuff a band saw into his running shorts at the house, which, I didn't see in the video above. But actually would be interested in watching.

Upthread, there's a quotation of the citizens arrest statute in Georgia, actually 2-3 times.  

I think the self-defense statute is quoted too.

All of this stuff is highly dependent on the state's laws and self-defense statutes can get complicated because they try to take into account so many different situations:  in-home, not at home, endangering property or endangering life, peace officer or civilian, etc. etc.

Generally, it appears that you may not respond with deadly force unless threatened with deadly force.  You have no duty to retreat.

Beyond that, someone more familiar or expert with Georgia law will have to opine.

What seems to me to be the key unanswered question:  does making a valid citizens arrest entitle arrestors to the protections of peace officers as concerns use of force?

It doesn't look to me like there's a valid citizens arrest because they did not witness or have good personal knowledge of the commission of a felony.

It does not appear that they can successfully invoke self-defense because they weren't threatened with deadly force.

What appears to me to be the most likely/successful line of defense is that the shooting was accidental because of Arbery's aggression.  But that would only apply really to the first shot that isn't shown on video.  Shots 2 and 3 were pretty clearly intentional and excused only if Arbery were threatening Cletus Jr. with deadly force, which he was not.

While the Guyger case had a torturous legal defense that required threading a needle, it was at least semi-plausible.

I don't really see any legal defense for these guys.  But I may be wrong.

[Homercles 10,206]

19 hours ago, naija said:

Jesus Christ. can you give the rape fantasy you have a break?

 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Looks like it would be a stretch to make that a criminal trespass under Georgia law.  So they couldn't have validly citizens arrested him for that.  There's no felony shown, not even close.

That said, it is a little weird.  He doesn't do anything, but it kind of looks like he's eyeballing building materials.  Not a crime, though.

That video doesn’t help the accused one bit.  It hurts them.  Looked like innocent snooping on a construction site in broad daylight.  By a man who didn’t have nearby means to steal anything. It’s not like he backed his truck up at nights with the lights off and wearing dark clothes.  If that’s what their PC was for a citizens arrest, they are going down.  

[fattyflattie 4,640]

A couple of years ago, I spent a bunch of time in Ga between NE Atlanta, all the way down to Brunswick (and thru the area of this murder).   Probably a month or so.  And this work I had to talk to many business owners, construction groups, and local govt types. I remember this clear as day. I made mental note because I had seen so many interracial couples, and large groups of friends/colleagues/people eating etc of white/blacks (not many Hispanic, at all, as I recall). I remember thinking, the race relations here are tremendously better than I thought, even better than I see in Houston daily.   I mean I was out in the the sticks once out of Atlanta area.  And people were so damn nice, all of them.   I remember telling my wife to add Ga to the list if we were ever forced to leave TX.   Lol.  I really hope I got the right view, and that Facebook group are the outliers.  But I think I may have just gotten lucky meeting the people I did. 

[Beau Vine 55,863]

I think Marsellus Wallace should be put in charge of administering justice.

[Newdoc 3,511]

8 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Lol.  I really hope I got the right view, and that Facebook group are the outliers.  But I think I may have just gotten lucky meeting the people I did.

I think there are a lot more people who have moved past significant prejudice. But it only takes a few idiots with access to guns or even cars to screw up racial relations for the rest of us.

Cletus and Cletus Jr set the trust factor for black American minds back another 10 years. Hopefully marginalized groups see enough of the rest of us speak out and do something productive to gain it back.

[tx 3 putt 78,676]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I just think it gives it more credence than if it were handled by locals.  

It’s going to be a fucking circus though, given the timing   

grand jury is about to dig in and go into 'it's us v 'them'' mentality, im calling it now 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

21 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

As someone who was formerly in a mixed race marriage(ex was black) I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Texas.

It wasn’t a dig at TX as much an observation.  I can’t dig up the demographic populations right now, but an assumption is we have ALOT more Hispanics in TX.  I see groups of whites and Hispanics much more than whites and blacks in my day to day, again just an observation.   But that could change significantly by what neighborhood you live in, or what you do for a living.  Anyhow, I was both surprised and heart warmed by what I witnessed there. 

[fattyflattie 4,640]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

grand jury is about to dig in and go into 'it's us v 'them'' mentality, im calling it now 

I think the opposite. “Let’s gtfo out of the limelight. Sorry Cletti, turn your phone off next time. Whoop”

[Buzzrock 15,136]

Oh I mean I know that’s not real.  But they look very similar.  North Georgia fuckface?

South Georgia fuckface

[Buzzrock 15,136]

I think there are a lot more people who have moved past significant prejudice. But it only takes a few idiots with access to guns or even cars to screw up racial relations for the rest of us.
Cletus and Cletus Jr set the trust factor for black American minds back another 10 years. Hopefully marginalized groups see enough of the rest of us speak out and do something productive to gain it back.

I grew up in rural Georgia in a trailer on a working farm so I was exposed to a lot of casual racism. Lots of cousins and friends telling n* jokes at the dove field and the like. Oddly though some of the same people would employee blacks on their farms and considered them their best employees. Looking back on it it was really strange.

But as people my age (now 47) got a little older we came to realize that this was decidedly not OK and our views matured. Now when I run into blatant racism like that it’s always an older boomer-age person. Last time was a few years ago RV camping, and the guy who pulled up next to us telling Obama n* jokes like he thought I would find it funny. He was pretty irritated when I told him to knock it off.

Of course there are still way too many exceptions but I hope that every generation weeds out more and more.