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Posted

Very relieved by this.  Appropriate use of the felony murder rule as well (by which the non-triggermen are guilty of a murder charge as well).

Now, let's see what the court of appeals says about the instruction on the "citizens arrest" statute.  That's THE determinative question.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Very relieved by this.  Appropriate use of the felony murder rule as well (by which the non-triggermen are guilty of a murder charge as well).

Now, let's see what the court of appeals says about the instruction on the "citizens arrest" statute.  That's THE determinative question.

Don't forget the "black preachers" problem. That will surely be raised on appeal. 'Cause Georgia.

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Very relieved by this.  Appropriate use of the felony murder rule as well (by which the non-triggermen are guilty of a murder charge as well).

Now, let's see what the court of appeals says about the instruction on the "citizens arrest" statute.  That's THE determinative question.

I hate the felony murder rule in general. It is often abused and frankly I don't think it is logically sound. But I suppose this is close to the ideal case for the rule if we are stuck with it. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

I hate the felony murder rule in general. It is often abused and frankly I don't think is logically sound. But I suppose this is close to the ideal case for the rule if we are stuck with it. 

Yep.  I do think there needs to be more mens rea to support a conviction under it, but the facts here would support it even with a heightened standard.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The fact that we’re even the least bit surprised is sad.

Many of us are not surprised. It was the appropriate verdict despite the defense's attempts at legal loopholes. Those dudes unnecessarily chased a kid down and murdered him....on video. Without the video, this could easily go another way. Much like the Rittenhouse trial, if one watched it and saw the videos, one would not be shocked at the verdicts. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, jkates said:

Many of us are not surprised. It was the appropriate verdict despite the defense's attempts at legal loopholes. Those dudes unnecessarily chased a kid down and murdered him....on video. Without the video, this could easily go another way. Much like the Rittenhouse trial, if one watched it and saw the videos, one would not be shocked at the verdicts. 

They weren't even charged until the video came out.  Three different DA's passed on the case.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Yes, if Ahmad had been carrying so much as a pocket knife Travis probably would have walked. 

Or a skateboard, stare decisis and all.

Edited by 'stache
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Posted
7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They weren't even charged until the video came out.  Three different DA's passed on the case.

Yup. I was simply referring to the trial. Once I saw the evidence and heard the prosecution and defense, I figured it was a slam dunk guilty. The quick deliberation seems to agree.

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Posted
16 minutes ago, jkates said:

Many of us are not surprised. It was the appropriate verdict despite the defense's attempts at legal loopholes. Those dudes unnecessarily chased a kid down and murdered him....on video. Without the video, this could easily go another way. Much like the Rittenhouse trial, if one watched it and saw the videos, one would not be shocked at the verdicts. 

 

6 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They weren't even charged until the video came out.  Three different DA's passed on the case.

This.  A whole lotta people forget what AB points out.

This is an "OBVIOUS" case, a real no-brainer that they're guilty......except, you know, the elected officials charged with representing the interests of the people of Georgia so strongly disagreed with that conclusion that they didn't even file charges.  That's the failure point -  complete and total institutional and systemic failure. 

Not until the video went national, and the full state authorities came in, was the failure corrected.  That's FUCKED UP.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They weren't even charged until the video came out.  Three different DA's passed on the case.

Didn’t the defendants themselves leak the video which led to their own conviction?

That’s an all timer right there.  Hoisted by their own petard as one might say…in the 17th century.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Didn’t the defendants themselves leak the video which led to their own conviction?

That’s an all timer right there.  Hoisted by their own petard as one might say…in the 17th century.

Hell they went on the news to broadcast it to everyone.  I cannot believe that Roddy stuck with his lawyer the whole time.  Just one bad decision after another.

Posted

I feel like Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" if I'm the appellate judge hearing this bullshit.

"Black Preachers and Dirty Toenails?  Please tell me you have something more, counselor.  These men are on trial for their lives."  

 

in the spirit of Thanksgiving...May God be with the McMichael Boys...because no one else on this Earth will be.  

The beatings they are going to have to endure for decades, it boggles the mind.  They should hope and pray for long stays in the infirmary and/or solitary confinement.  Imagine a darkened 6x8x8 box for 23 hours a day being a place you long to go to for some "me time."  They get the chance, they should attempt a suicide-by-cop thing while in transit in the next few weeks.  Otherwise, they'll be the most famous murderers in Gen. Pop. and everybody's gonna take a swing.  

There's that old adage, I know Pops McMichael knows it, on the first day in prison-try and beat the biggest, baddest guy you can find.  Maybe they should just try that and die from the inevitable internal bleeding.  They drag it out too long, and it's just gonna be decades of mental and physical traumatic suffering.  I would think the Dad is smart enough to request he be placed in a separate facility from his son.  I know he feels he can protect his son more if he's in there with them on the same Block.  But deep down, he shouldn't see what's going to happen to his son because of him.  That's the worst part of his punishment.  And he deserves it 1000x fold.

Posted
41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Very relieved by this.  Appropriate use of the felony murder rule as well (by which the non-triggermen are guilty of a murder charge as well).

Now, let's see what the court of appeals says about the instruction on the "citizens arrest" statute.  That's THE determinative question.

They will affirm the decision. Nobody except the defendants and their families wants to try this again. 

Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I feel like Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" if I'm the appellate judge hearing this bullshit.

"Black Preachers and Dirty Toenails?  Please tell me you have something more, counselor.  These men are on trial for their lives."  

 

in the spirit of Thanksgiving...May God be with the McMichael Boys...because no one else on this Earth will be.  

The beatings they are going to have to endure for decades, it boggles the mind.  They should hope and pray for long stays in the infirmary and/or solitary confinement.  Imagine a darkened 6x8x8 box for 23 hours a day being a place you long to go to for some "me time."  They get the chance, they should attempt a suicide-by-cop thing while in transit in the next few weeks.  Otherwise, they'll be the most famous murderers in Gen. Pop. and everybody's gonna take a swing.  

There's that old adage, I know Pops McMichael knows it, on the first day in prison-try and beat the biggest, baddest guy you can find.  Maybe they should just try that and die from the inevitable internal bleeding.  They drag it out too long, and it's just gonna be decades of mental and physical traumatic suffering.  I would think the Dad is smart enough to request he be placed in a separate facility from his son.  I know he feels he can protect his son more if he's in there with them on the same Block.  But deep down, he shouldn't see what's going to happen to his son because of him.  That's the worst part of his punishment.  And he deserves it 1000x fold.

It may be fun to fantasize about but If you think these guys are going to be in “general pop” you crazy.

They’ll be placed in some kind of protective custody for their own safety.  The only living perpetrator of the James Byrd murder has been in protective custody since his conviction over 20 years ago.

Edited by Message Board User
Posted (edited)

^
Yep to the law enforcement career which ended in 2019, which is why I think he's smart to ask for a separate facility away from any of his previous jurisdictions.  Also because watching your son get beat mercilessly day after day for decades because of the shitty job you did as a father is more than any man can take.  

Also, MBU---I think the Dad will get placed somewhere "special" but the son and the third guy will likely end up in General Population after awhile.  And they will die there.

Edited by Lobo
Posted

If they get convicted on the federal charges, which sentence would they serve first? State or federal? I’m not educated on the subject, but I would guess that a federal prison is more safe for these guys than a state prison.

Posted
19 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They weren't even charged until the video came out.  Three different DA's passed on the case.

Without the video they likely walk. So I can see the DAs passing on the case if they hadn’t seen the video. It’s not right. Just reality. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

in the spirit of Thanksgiving...May God be with the McMichael Boys...because no one else on this Earth will be.  

The beatings they are going to have to endure for decades, it boggles the mind.  They should hope and pray for long stays in the infirmary and/or solitary confinement.  Imagine a darkened 6x8x8 box for 23 hours a day being a place you long to go to for some "me time."  They get the chance, they should attempt a suicide-by-cop thing while in transit in the next few weeks.  Otherwise, they'll be the most famous murderers in Gen. Pop. and everybody's gonna take a swing.  

There's that old adage, I know Pops McMichael knows it, on the first day in prison-try and beat the biggest, baddest guy you can find.  Maybe they should just try that and die from the inevitable internal bleeding.  They drag it out too long, and it's just gonna be decades of mental and physical traumatic suffering.  I would think the Dad is smart enough to request he be placed in a separate facility from his son.  I know he feels he can protect his son more if he's in there with them on the same Block.  But deep down, he shouldn't see what's going to happen to his son because of him.  That's the worst part of his punishment.  And he deserves it 1000x fold.

When I hear the verdict, I wondered if we would get A True Lobo Prison Post.

Thank you for not letting us down.

And yeah, while the dad is going to have to live with this shit for the rest of his life, it's not just about the son ending up in prison, it's also about all of the bad choices the dad made along the way in raising his son.  And his son was a grown-ass man and knew the kind of person his dad was.  

9c9ed05acbfe3d0d5e492f0283c0d25d--loneso

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Without the video they likely walk. So I can see the DAs passing on the case if they hadn’t seen the video. It’s not right. Just reality. 

Yea, that’s the least surprising part of all of this. Without the video it’s the word of a dead black kid versus 3 white guys, including an ex cop. 
 

edit: Bryan better watch his back around the McMichaels, he is the reason any of this sees a day in court. At this point what’s another murder going to cost Travis?

Edited by TXSG8R
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Posted
1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I’d like to hear why they’re different than George Zimmerman.

Zimmerman had a legitimate self-defense claim under FL law. These guys did not, as per the video evidence, under GA law.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Yup. I didn't mean to suggest that no potentially legitimate (though almost certainly losing) basis for appeal exists. I was simply pointing out that "the jury didn't take long enough" isn't one of them. Non-lawyers may not realize that the jury deliberations are essentially a black box that cannot be opened or challenged (courts have carved out a very very small number of exceptions, and even those aren't readily accepted everywhere). 

I didn't mean to "counter" your post, but rather supplement it, because an appeal seems rather likely.  Although I don't see it as being likely to succeed.

Probably should have replied to lobo.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I’d like to hear why they’re different than George Zimmerman.

 

14 minutes ago, Foosters said:

There wasn't video. 

Probably this.  Zimmerman got to tell his side of the story which sounded a lot like the one the McMichaels told.

IIRC:

  • George saw suspicious guy in his neighborhood, he's part of neighborhood watch so gonna follow him
  • George called the police they said to leave it alone
  • George follows the guy and corners him in a dark corner
  • Trayvon jumps him (likely in self defense from being cornered by the suspicious guy following him but we don't know because he's dead)
  • George shoots and kills Trayvon

The main distinction is that McMichael escalated the threat with the open carry of a weapon

Zimmerman was concealed carry and was attacked from behind 

Neither Zimmerman or McMichael were initially charged. 

The critical evidence in the McMichael trial was the video and the testimony that they were chasing him for 5 minutes, they did not let him get away until it was elevated to conflict, Zimmerman claims he was attacked from behind.

Edited by TexasEd
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Posted (edited)

Pretty good article on "what comes next."  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/explainer-convictions-in-the-arbery-death-trial-now-what/ar-AAR5WOb

Looks like the murder convictions carry a minimum of 30 years.

And a reminder that federal hate crime charges remain pending.  I honestly think those need to drop if the convictions are affirmed on appeal.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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