Ex Cop and son kill unarmed black man jogging

[fattyflattie 4636]

3 hours ago, purplepride95 said:

No one knows what they would do in that situation.

I know what you are saying, but I’m pretty sure I would have chosen the same as he did.  In hindsight this would have been the wrong move, but if I round a corner (parked truck) and someone fires off a shot at me, his only option was “go time”.  This is pure fight or flight, and there was nowhere for flight.  Flight would only have guaranteed being shot in the back.  
 

These guys need to go down, and I’m not talking some limp ass manslaughter charge. Unfortunately sometimes as a society, we need to be reminded why you don’t do dumb shit like kill people because of their skin color.   Burn. Them. Down. 

[Grandioso 2592]

I'm reading the full letter the original prosecutor wrote. After recusing himself, he writes a butthurt 3-page screed attempting to prejudice the shit out of the media and public. Ugh.

[HRSchenker 2259]

Why not call police and closely follow him? I will never understand the people who think owning a gun makes them an untouchable king. I carry a gun with me almost 24/7 and there is no way I'm going on the hunt for someone I suspect of being a burglar. 

[PW119 167]

Who shot the video?!
If it’s one of the rednecks’ pals/family, I’d like to hear their purpose in filming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Orale 1087]

Just saw the video. At least 2nd degree murder by most state standards. Looks like Georgia doesn't distinguish between 1st degree (pre-mediation) and 2nd degree (no pre-meditation), there's just murder. I imagine they make that distinction implicitly in sentencing.  

[po elvis 2070]

Btw the victim lived in the neighborhood across the main road from this neighborhood. It is a similar type neighborhood with good sized lots and older ranch houses. I don't really think he was "out of place" in the neighborhood.

[nolongerU2horn 752]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

That shooter is going to jail for a long time. 

I’m sorry but what country do you think we live in here?

[Grandioso 2592]

56 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

That letter is fraught with grammatical fuckups. It’s hard to read. He is also very sure that no crime was committed - after watching the video. And, he comments on AA’s mental records and criminal records. 

His tone toward the victim's mother reeks of contempt. Even if you think you are correct, it is so unprofessional and insensitive to shit on this lady who VERY REASONABLY has questions and suspicions about the incident and its investigation. This prosecutor is a person who does not see the victim (or his grieving mother) a a coequal human being. 

[gmr548 16533]

Who shot the video?!
If it’s one of the rednecks’ pals/family, I’d like to hear their purpose in filming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It looked like a dash cam. Don't know if they just kind of came upon it or of they were connected somehow. The lack of verbal reaction was kind of weird.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Original DA Recusal / Airing of Grievances Letter

(1) First of all, I recuse

(2) Second of all, here is exactly what happened to whoever moves forward with this.

What a piece of shit.

"The first shot is through his hand, which is consistent with pulling the barrel toward himself."   You know what else it is consistent with?  Any of 10,000 other reasons a shot might go through someone's hand.  Some Columbo out there might even point out a little sneaky thing called defensive wounds.

"The second and third shots are consistent with a struggle."  And the fourth and fifth shots.  It's really amazing this dude was able to empty a forty round magazine on himself. You'd think someone might be a little incredulous about being accidentally shot 3 times in a struggle.

"You can tell that McMichael is definitely trying to pull the gun away from Arbery while Arbery is trying to pull the gun toward himself, just like usually happens when i draw down on someone else, they're always all 'stop not pointing that gun at me' and i'm all 'i'm doing my best to not point my gun at you but you are just making me point it at you as you overpower me while your life is literally leaking out of you. stop stop'"

case closed.

[Brian Fantana 6671]

On 4/29/2020 at 12:54 PM, Pokoloco said:

 I'm not buying the out for a jog thing, but these 2 dipshits should've never taken the law into their own hands in the first place. 

 

Watch the video and say that again.

[TwiceHorn 31322]

30 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

2 hours ago, PW119 said:

Who shot the video?!
If it’s one of the rednecks’ pals/family, I’d like to hear their purpose in filming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It looked like a dash cam. Don't know if they just kind of came upon it or of they were connected somehow. The lack of verbal reaction was kind of weird.

According to the DA letter, it was Bryan Williams or William Bryan, a friend of Cletus'.

[Brian Fantana 6671]

Sad thing is, if the video wasn't released, I would bet there would never be any arrests and the sacks and hulks of the world would give the shooter the benefit of the doubt until the end of time.

[otisdog 365]

Has there been arrests?

[Brian Fantana 6671]

5 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Has there been arrests?

No arrests and no possibility of a grand jury until mid June. Great justice system we have. Unless it was two black guys shooting a white jogger. Then I'm sure they'd kick it up.

[TwiceHorn 31322]

6 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Has there been arrests?

There have not.  The current DA in charge is taking it before a grand jury soon.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Sad thing is, if the video wasn't released, I would bet there would never be any arrests and the sacks and hulks of the world would give the shooter the benefit of the doubt until the end of time.

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

[Brian Fantana 6671]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Fair enough. Also I didn't see your posts after the video was posted initially, so withdrawn.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Well, there is also the flip side of that. Waiting until the evidence comes up to repeat the word "clearly" and use half-wit reasoning to say this was justifiable.  I mean, we have it in writing on an official letterhead.  Is that some sort of reverse virtue signaling?

[immortal13 4059]

12 hours ago, purplepride95 said:

Video released won’t embed 

https://www.facebook.com/799539910084929/posts/3124377527601144/?vh=e

Jfc that was hard to watch. There can't be any justice in this country if a murder charge doesn't come out of this.

[Goo Punch 4275]

When I was in 1st grade they taught us about MLK, and about this thing that used to happen in our country called "racism". But then MLK came along, and now blacks, and whites, and mexicans can all go to school together, and now racism is a thing of the past. What a load of shit that turned out to be.

Yeah, institutionalized racism is (mostly) a thing of the past in this country, but hatred and ignorance, and a pathetic desire to feel important by carrying/using firearms on those you hate are still very much alive and active, and have been my entire life. From Rodney King, to James Byrd, to Trayvon Martin, to this case, my life has seen a never-ending parade of whites being scared of/attacking/killing blacks, and often times getting away with it, even when there's no doubt that it was a straight up murder. 

With that said, only a small portion of our population feel/practice this blatant, overt, truly hateful racism. A much bigger problem (in a numbers sense) are the scores of white people who, while not racist themselves, somehow cannot understand or accept that being black in America is absolutely not the same as being white. People with no hatred of other races, people with truly benign-good intentions, who somehow cannot wrap their heads around the concept that a black person's world view and experiences might not analogous to theirs because of their race. This leads these people to do seemingly-benign-but-actually-harmful things like question/doubt the veracity of the whole "this would be different if the skin colors were switched" arguments, or to say, "he simply should just have done this (because i would have done that)", or worse, to even doubt that that true hatred and racism like this still exists all over this country. 

That video is vile. These people are vile. Their intentions were vile, and the fact that they've (to this point) gotten away with cold-blooded murder scott free *should* be unthinkable, but instead is sadly typical of American justice, particularly in the south. To be honest i'm surprised that we aren't seeing mini race wars popping up all over the place with shit like this being as prevalent as it is. Fuck man. I really can't wrap my head around how human beings can be so disgusting sometimes, and while I hope that justice ultimately prevails in this case, I will still hang my head in shame and bewilderment, knowing that this type of thing will continue to happen for as long as I live.

[Goo Punch 4275]

24 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

shut the fuck up with this "virtue signaling" bullshit. you're inserting your own dumbass fucking narrative where it doesn't belong because you're a one-note poster who can't get enough of repeating himself. what part of "two guys saw an unarmed young man jogging by, grabbed their guns, chased him down in their truck, and then shot the unarmed man to death" requires video footage for us to realize that the entire situation is fucked? it has nothing to do with your embarrassing, narrow minded, self righteous bullshit about "snowflakes" or "virtue signaling", you fucking troll. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Goo Punch

[RollLeft 5040]

That is murder.  The victim clearly was wearing jogging attire and was in fact jogging.  The murderer(s) did not display fear for their lives as they were waiting for the victim with weapon in hand.  As the victim approached he had reason to believe he was being attacked, the attackers were not uniformed officers even if they said they were, since they brandished a weapon.  Upon seeing this the victim firstly attempted to avert the attacker by running away from him and putting a truck between them.   Only after being pursued to the front of the truck, the victim rightly if not mistakenly, charged his attacker to defend himself.  At that time the victim was shot at, then murdered.  

Edited May 6, 2020 by RollLeft

[Goo Punch 4275]

also, any kind of talk along the lines of "snowflakes" and "virtue signaling", and any of the other cutesy terms that these room temperature IQ-having, never-not-talking-politics asshats love to use so much need to stay in the cloak room where that retarded, combative shit belongs. anyone using that kind of vernacular has zero intentions of having a sincere conversation, and only wants to start a pissing match with whichever side of the aisle they don't like. shit is fucking childish and embarrassing. keep that shit on facebook or CR, whichever retarded echo chamber you prefer. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Goo Punch

[TexasEd 8064]

Ambush Murder.

He tries to avoid them by running around the truck away from the driver but is shot at from point blank range as he goes around the right side.  Cletus Jr pursued him as he tried to avoid him and closed range and fired at point blank.  At that point what do you do?  There is no escape because the range is closed so you turn your back and get shot in the back or wrestle the shotgun and keep the muzzle pointed away from you which he successfully did on the second shot. 

Only problem with that is Pops had a clear shot from behind while he was trying to not get shot from the front.

Ambush.

[Brian Fantana 6671]

It absolutely was an ambush. Some people are asking why he kept running forward, forgetting the people driving up behind him/filming were friends of the shooter. He had nowhere to go.

[tx 3 putt 76497]

Racially motivated murder 

there was no crime being committed to justify a citizens arrest 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

10 hours ago, formermav43 said:

1 is really unbelievable. You don’t understand why someone might try to charge someone brandishing a weapon after he’s been shot? I’d say when the fight-or-flight response kicked in, he calculated his odds of wrestling it away were better than outrunning a bullet. You’re essentially asking why he didn’t just stand there and allow them to pump him full of lead.

Yeah, thats where I'm at although I havent seen any of the video yet with broken links.  Anyone that suggests otherwise has never really felt a real fight or flight situation. It all happens instantaneously. You only get to second guess bad decisions later if you're lucky. 

 

[PW119 167]

It looked like a dash cam. Don't know if they just kind of came upon it or of they were connected somehow. The lack of verbal reaction was kind of weird.

I don’t think it was a dash cam. The camera isn’t anchored - the driver is holding the camera.


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[gmr548 16533]

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Imagine being this stupid

[Guest Lobo]

I've particularly enjoyed the implicit suggestion on here by a few posters that the victim owes the two shooters a bit of gratitude.  They could have waited until he got on the ground and tried to reason with them in order to save his own life.  They could have waited until he began to beg and debase himself on the pavement, but they didn't.  They shot him on his own two feet, so that he could go out with some dignity and honor.  But no, the victim had to charge them and attempt to wrestle away the weapon.  He should have known better and pleaded, instead he got a third and fatal round.  All this could have been avoided by knowing his place and environs and now he's dead.  But at least Cletus and Jr. didn't make him do all that subhuman stuff, they let him charge and then put him down quickly.  Some posters are right, they was right and the victim was wrong, not in terms of the murder obviously (nobody on here is suggesting that), but in how he handled himself incorrectly upon arriving at the scene.  There's several posts about questioning why he acted so irrationally, but of course those will be conveniently glossed over.  What a wonderfully revealing thread. 

[otisdog 365]

2 hours ago, PW119 said:

I don’t think it was a dash cam. The camera isn’t anchored - the driver is holding the camera.


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And magically the critical part of the early confrontation goes 'off frame' for some reason....See in the news the grand jury will look at the case. But it's a Georgia GJ....

[smuggs 9342]

6 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yeah, thats where I'm at although I havent seen any of the video yet with broken links.  Anyone that suggests otherwise has never really felt a real fight or flight situation. It all happens instantaneously. You only get to second guess bad decisions later if you're lucky. 

I'd be willing to bet that the guy had earbuds in and was listening to music, like damn near everyone that goes on a solo run. Imagine the level of shock/confusion when a truckload of assholes pull around and stop in front of you with long guns, and you've been completely oblivious to their stalking as you've been mostly 100% focused on a fucking afternoon run.

These two cowboys can get fucked.

[crash_davis 23088]

9 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Get out of here with the utter bullshit. The mental gymnastics that you do to justify your shit is delusionally impressive.

Below is verbatim from the first DA's letter on Feb 23rd. He seemed to have enough evidence to think it was all perfectly legal. He didn't seem to need to wait for evidence. Notice the last sentence where the piece of shit DA blames the victim. It's May 6 and still no charges. The only reason this is being discussed is because of the news focus. If there had been no video evidence, this would have been just another example racist pieces of shits killing a black man because he was black and getting away with it and you would have no problems with it.

 

 

Second As to the case at hand: Itismy professional belief the autopsy confirms what wehad already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately atthe scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th, 2020 atthe briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at that time. Wedo not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.

Third

It appears Travis McMichael,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in theirneighborhood, and asking/ tellinghim to stop. Itappearstheir intentwas to stop and hold this criminal suspectuntil law enforcement arrived. UnderGeorgia Law this is perfectly legal, OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private personmay arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arresthim upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”

Fourth

It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichaelhad firearmsbeing carried in an open fashion . The investigation showsneither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision , they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. UnderGeorgia Law this is legalopen carry .

OCGA 16- 11- 126 ) Any person whoisnotprohibitedby law from possessinga handgun orlonggun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon orlong gun on his orherproperty or insidehis orher home, motorvehicle, orplaceof business withouta valid weaponscarry license. (b ) Any personwho isnotprohibited by law from possessinga handgun or longgun may haveor carry on his or her person a long gun withouta valid weaponscarry license, provided thatifthe long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposedmanner.” 2 of 3

Fifth

The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in realtime. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichaelwho was standing at the front left corner ofthetruck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun andpull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistentwith the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight arealso consistent with the upward angle ofblood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while weknow McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do notknow who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man .

[TwiceHorn 31322]

11 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Get out of here with the utter bullshit. The mental gymnastics that you do to justify your shit is delusionally impressive.

Below is verbatim from the first DA's letter on Feb 23rd. He seemed to have enough evidence to think it was all perfectly legal. He didn't seem to need to wait for evidence. Notice the last sentence where the piece of shit DA blames the victim. It's May 6 and still no charges. The only reason this is being discussed is because of the news focus. If there had been no video evidence, this would have been just another example racist pieces of shits killing a black man because he was black and getting away with it and you would have no problems with it.

 

 

Second As to the case at hand: Itismy professional belief the autopsy confirms what wehad already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately atthe scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th, 2020 atthe briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at that time. Wedo not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.

Third

It appears Travis McMichael,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in theirneighborhood, and asking/ tellinghim to stop. Itappearstheir intentwas to stop and hold this criminal suspectuntil law enforcement arrived. UnderGeorgia Law this is perfectly legal, OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private personmay arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arresthim upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”

Fourth

It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichaelhad firearmsbeing carried in an open fashion . The investigation showsneither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision , they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. UnderGeorgia Law this is legalopen carry .

OCGA 16- 11- 126 ) Any person whoisnotprohibitedby law from possessinga handgun orlonggun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon orlong gun on his orherproperty or insidehis orher home, motorvehicle, orplaceof business withouta valid weaponscarry license. (b ) Any personwho isnotprohibited by law from possessinga handgun or longgun may haveor carry on his or her person a long gun withouta valid weaponscarry license, provided thatifthe long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposedmanner.” 2 of 3

Fifth

The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in realtime. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichaelwho was standing at the front left corner ofthetruck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun andpull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistentwith the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight arealso consistent with the upward angle ofblood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while weknow McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do notknow who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man .

What's funny is, because Cletus had no knowledge of Arbery's priors and/or mental health problems, those factors in no way improve the probable cause analysis.

That DA should be ashamed.  Both of that letter generally and of his abuse of the English language.

Also note the DA's effort to shield that from FOIA requests.  Whoops.

Is it any wonder our criminal justice system is so fucked up?

Edited May 6, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Brisketexan 104746]

10 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

You say this, but then you get absolutely butt-raped with this inconvenient fact (which is almost always the case in this sort of incident):

10 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Well, there is also the flip side of that. Waiting until the evidence comes up to repeat the word "clearly" and use half-wit reasoning to say this was justifiable.  I mean, we have it in writing on an official letterhead.  Is that some sort of reverse virtue signaling?

The local authorities poisoning the record and doing all they can to villify the victim.  Cool, cool.

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

What's funny is, because Cletus had no knowledge of Arbery's priors and/or mental health problems, those factors in no way improve the probable cause analysis.

That DA should be ashamed.  Both of that letter generally and of his abuse of the English language.

Also note the DA's effort to shield that from FOIA requests.  Whoops.

Is it any wonder our criminal justice system is so fucked up?

And all of this.

There is one way to handle an incident like this.  Hand it off to an unbiased third party prosecutor (someone who has never had any relationship with the shooters), and let him handle it.  And HIS handling should be to take the matter to a grand jury, with no public comments on charges etc. until they have spoken.

But.....come on....we all knew that wasn't gonna happen the second this story broke.  

[tx 3 putt 76497]

1 hour ago, otisdog said:

 But it's a Georgia GJ....

That Grand Jury has been picked to be stacked in one direction 

 

[riloh05 107]

this is murder

[JBJ 3649]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

There is one way to handle an incident like this.  Hand it off to an unbiased third party prosecutor (someone who has never had any relationship with the shooters), and let him handle it.  And HIS handling should be to take the matter to a grand jury, with no public comments on charges etc. until they have spoken.

The prosecutor who just removed himself was already a special prosecutor. The local prosecutor recused immediately because McMichael was an investigator for their jurisdiction.

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Third

It appears Travis McMichael,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in theirneighborhood, and asking/ tellinghim to stop. Itappearstheir intentwas to stop and hold this criminal suspectuntil law enforcement arrived. UnderGeorgia Law this is perfectly legal, OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private personmay arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arresthim upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”

I agree with most of your post.  This is the only part I question.  Mostly because I have no idea what steps are actually lawful for a GA citizens arrest.  That said, I also can't really point to anything I would think is unlawful.

The one point I'd drill home if I were prosecuting is when and why was the safety switch on the shotgun was toggled.

[tx 3 putt 76497]

former police officer and district attorney’s investigator <<<<< he’s walking free. We all know they take care of their own 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

11 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Ambush Murder.

He tries to avoid them by running around the truck away from the driver but is shot at from point blank range as he goes around the right side.  Cletus Jr pursued him as he tried to avoid him and closed range and fired at point blank.  At that point what do you do?  There is no escape because the range is closed so you turn your back and get shot in the back or wrestle the shotgun and keep the muzzle pointed away from you which he successfully did on the second shot. 

Only problem with that is Pops had a clear shot from behind while he was trying to not get shot from the front.

Ambush.

Point of order:

Point blank is the range at which the sights line up with the trajectory of the bullet, not an inordinately close distance.

[crash_davis 23088]

11 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The prosecutor who just removed himself was already a special prosecutor. The local prosecutor recused immediately because McMichael was an investigator for their jurisdiction.

I agree with most of your post.  This is the only part I question.  Mostly because I have no idea what steps are actually lawful for a GA citizens arrest.  That said, I also can't really point to anything I would think is unlawful.

The one point I'd drill home if I were prosecuting is when and why was the safety switch on the shotgun was toggled.

 

OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge .

Here's the issue. These two redneck dipshits did not witness a crime or had knowledge of a crime being committed by the jogger. 

Redneck had his gun stolen from his car a month or so earlier. Then something about a black guy going into a home under construction. Black man running in the neighborhood. Let's make a citizen's arrest based on nothing but he's black. 

[TwiceHorn 31322]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

That Grand Jury has been picked to be stacked in one direction 

 

Well, generally to deliver indictments.  Secondarily to indict colored and po folks, but that's not really intentional so much as a reliable by-product.

So this one is going to put them to the test:  deliver indictment of white folks?

Anyone have any idea how "progressive" a non-Atlanta, non-Athens Georgia grand jury or petit jury may be?  On the one hand, it's the deep south, on the other, it's not Alabama.

Dallas County has shown that it has the capacity to do the right thing.  Not sure about Georgia.

[TwiceHorn 31322]

11 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge .

Here's the issue. These two redneck dipshits did not witness a crime or had knowledge of a crime being committed by the jogger. 

Redneck had his gun stolen from his car a month or so earlier. Then something about a black guy going into a home under construction. Black man running in the neighborhood. Let's make a citizen's arrest based on nothing but he's black. 

As posted upthread, that statute goes on to permit citizens arrest on a felony on probable cause, without personal knowledge, if the perp is fleeing or escaping.  Bad idea jeans.

First off, there's about zero evidence that crime is so rampant that we must supplement the efforts of licensed peace officers with those of citizens.  Second, even if there were such evidence, letting citizens arrest on probable cause is just a bridge way too far.  It puts everyone in danger for little or no gain.

Edited May 6, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[crash_davis 23088]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As posted upthread, that statute goes on to permit citizens arrest on a felony on probable cause, without personal knowledge, if the perp is fleeing or escaping.  Bad idea jeans.

First off, there's about zero evidence that crime is so rampant that we must supplement the efforts of licensed peace officers with those of citizens.  Second, even if there were such evidence, letting citizens arrest on probable cause is just a bridge way too far.  It puts everyone in danger for little or no gain.

In the interest of upholding the law and due process, they should've arrested the rednecks and let the judicial system run its course. This would at least let the judicial system consider what that probably cause was. The victim is owed due process as much as the racist rednecks. To watch that painful video and come away that the rednecks did nothing wrong or to not even consider arresting and letting the justice system have a say is criminal.

[Brisketexan 104746]

5 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

In the interest of upholding the law and due process, they should've arrested the rednecks and let the judicial system run its course. This would at least let the judicial system consider what that probably cause was. The victim is owed due process as much as the racist rednecks. To watch that painful video and come away that the rednecks did nothing wrong or to not even consider arresting and letting the justice system have a say is criminal.

Dude.  White guys connected to law enforcement shot a black dude.  That is per se "they get all benefit of the doubt, and will face no consequences unless public pressure forces it."

[TwiceHorn 31322]

6 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

In the interest of upholding the law and due process, they should've arrested the rednecks and let the judicial system run its course. This would at least let the judicial system consider what that probably cause was. The victim is owed due process as much as the racist rednecks. To watch that painful video and come away that the rednecks did nothing wrong or to not even consider arresting and letting the justice system have a say is criminal.

Well, the grand jury will get its say on that, so all is not lost.  But agreed, they  should have been arrested.

[yoladu 4072]

20 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Quoting the above for the below. 

Sounds like these guys are going to prosecuted.  Yes they should’ve stayed home, but they should get theirs.  I believe he’d be alive if a cooler head had prevailed. The WORST action was to fight for your life. You must realize when you’ve brought only running shoes to a racist gun fight. 

yeah, what was he thinking? fighting for his life and all!  <eye roll>

[Grandioso 2592]

The lawyer responsible for the administration of justice in the county watched that tape and concluded that, not only was there no crime committed, there are no reasonable grounds whatsoever for even bringing a charge. 

[JBJ 3649]

51 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As posted upthread, that statute goes on to permit citizens arrest on a felony on probable cause, without personal knowledge, if the perp is fleeing or escaping.  Bad idea jeans.

I was thinking more alongs the lines of whether immediacy matters or not.  

As far as I can make out and despite another neighbor calling police about Arbery at that time, the McMichaels were following him because of a burglary from a few weeks back caught on camera.  That's personal knowledge to begin with anyway, not probable cause.