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Ex Cop and son kill unarmed black man jogging

purplepride95

By purplepride95
in Daily Texan

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32076

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JBJ said:

I was thinking more alongs the lines of whether immediacy matters or not.  

As far as I can make out and despite another neighbor calling police about Arbery at that time, the McMichaels were following him because of a burglary from a few weeks back caught on camera.  That's personal knowledge to begin with anyway, not probable cause.

No, immediacy doesn't dispense with or reduce the need for probable cause to make an arrest.

And, personal knowledge means you perceived it live and in-person, i.e. you witnessed it.  Video may be close, but it's not the same.

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Burnt Orange in OC
Burnt Orange in OC

You say "pointing a gun at him for no reason." But Arbery is on video as having just committed a crime. You say he has the right to fight for the gun. That would be self-defense. Why doesn't the fel

Burnt Orange in OC
Burnt Orange in OC

Did he unlawfully enter the home under construction?

Foosters
Foosters

No, the insinuation is that blacks should shut the fuck up about our racist criminal justice system because blacks kill blacks too. Just another in a long line of "shut up and dribble."

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12623

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

That shooter is going to jail for a long time.  Assuming those were three shots I heard.  The first one was right when the guy swerved around the truck.  That is not justifiable.

It's cute that you believe this.

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JBJ

JBJ 3821

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No, immediacy doesn't dispense with or reduce the need for probable cause to make an arrest.

And, personal knowledge means you perceived it live and in-person, i.e. you witnessed it.  Video may be close, but it's not the same.

The question I'm asking is if immediacy is required to make a citizen's arrest.  Let's say you come into my house, kick my dog, and run away.  I see you in the park 2 weeks later.  Am I still allowed to citizen's arrest you in the park 2 weeks later?  I assume so, but I can see how this would also be a problem.

Trying to wrap my head around this. Mall security guard sees a robbery on CCTV, chases down the criminal and makes a citizen's arrest in the parking lot.  That's illegal?

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11402

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The question I'm asking is if immediacy is required to make a citizen's arrest.  Let's say you come into my house, kick my dog, and run away.  I see you in the park 2 weeks later.  Am I still allowed to citizen's arrest you in the park 2 weeks later?  I assume so, but I can see how this would also be a problem.

Trying to wrap my head around this. Mall security guard sees a robbery on CCTV, chases down the criminal and makes a citizen's arrest in the parking lot.  That's illegal?

it's purely academic, but what evidence do we have of these slackjaws witnessing this particular black man commit a crime?

oh, they said so:

Quote

According to a Glynn County Police report, Gregory McMichael later told officers that he thought Arbery looked like a person suspected in a series of recent break-ins in the area.

which is really just code for "we heard there were black people committing crime in the area, look there's a black man, he must be our guy!"

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Felix

Felix 644

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The question I'm asking is if immediacy is required to make a citizen's arrest.  Let's say you come into my house, kick my dog, and run away.  I see you in the park 2 weeks later.  Am I still allowed to citizen's arrest you in the park 2 weeks later?  I assume so, but I can see how this would also be a problem.

Trying to wrap my head around this. Mall security guard sees a robbery on CCTV, chases down the criminal and makes a citizen's arrest in the parking lot.  That's illegal?

It depends.  Is your name Kerpal?  And did the dog need an operation?

Edited by Felix
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The question I'm asking is if immediacy is required to make a citizen's arrest.  Let's say you come into my house, kick my dog, and run away.  I see you in the park 2 weeks later.  Am I still allowed to citizen's arrest you in the park 2 weeks later?  I assume so, but I can see how this would also be a problem.

Trying to wrap my head around this. Mall security guard sees a robbery on CCTV, chases down the criminal and makes a citizen's arrest in the parking lot.  That's illegal?

I don't think anybody would have an issue with the mall cop seeing the robbery remotely.  Then he can tell by video which exit the robber took.  So he peels out and doubles back around to greet the thief outside JC Penney instead of the Macy's where the theft took place.  And as that guy runs out, instead of arresting him for stealing a discman, he just lays in wait behind a parking lot island of trees and then just opens fire with his partner on the thief.  I think that may be a hint excessive.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32076

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The question I'm asking is if immediacy is required to make a citizen's arrest.  Let's say you come into my house, kick my dog, and run away.  I see you in the park 2 weeks later.  Am I still allowed to citizen's arrest you in the park 2 weeks later?  I assume so, but I can see how this would also be a problem.

Trying to wrap my head around this. Mall security guard sees a robbery on CCTV, chases down the criminal and makes a citizen's arrest in the parking lot.  That's illegal?

Oh, well no, probably not on citizens arrest (immediacy).

If they aren't a licensed peace officer in Texas, that is correct, unless video has been interpreted to be "in his presence or within his view," which is a little bit different standard than personal knowledge, but similar.

If security guards generally are not licensed peace officers in a state, that might offer some justification for permitting citizens arrest on probable cause.  But I might think a more narrowly tailored grant of power to security guards is a better idea if giving them arrest authority at all is a good idea.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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smuggs

smuggs 9397

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Let's say you come into my house, kick my dog, and run away.  I see you in the park 2 weeks later.  Am I still allowed to citizen's arrest you in the park 2 weeks later? 

I think a shoulder check is legal at the very least.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Pokoloco said:

It's amazing to me people can see the exact same video and see completely different things.

It's not what people see, it's what people don't see that upsets them.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That's a bad shoot and tragedy.

Your eloquence is only transcended by your essence.  I think we all agree, we'd like you to deliver the eulogy.  

"A bad shoot, my brothers and sisters"  I mean, truly spiritual.  I love that you're on our planet.  

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Woodrow Call

Woodrow Call 494

Posted
Posted

Who the fuck do these yahoos think they are? I don't care if someone did steal something, it's no excuse for being shot down in the middle of the street by a couple of vigilantes. What kind of country allows this happen without punishment?  Not one I care to live in. 

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formermav43

formermav43 4625

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

People see what they want to see.  Sometimes video proves something, but people don't care.  etc. etc.

Right, I got that. I just don't understand the reference with the screenshot, maybe I forgot something that happened?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The thing is, Johnny isn't that stupid. He's that evil.

I would contend he's neither stupid, nor evil.  He's just a product of his upbringing.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90641

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Woodrow Call said:

Who the fuck do these yahoos think they are? I don't care if someone did steal something, it's no excuse for being shot down in the middle of the street by a couple of vigilantes. What kind of country allows this happen without punishment?  Not one I care to live in. 

The older one is a retired investigator for the local prosecutor.    

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SHOOTER12

SHOOTER12 8886

Posted
Posted
On 5/5/2020 at 3:24 PM, Lobo said:

Yeah, the Nextdoor.com group in their neighborhood seem excessive.  Still curious about who the guy filming is.  He kinda seems to be anticipating what is gonna happen but also seems nervously fumbling and not totally sure what he's rolling up on.  

I think the kid got boxed in and was either fight their weapon away from them and wait for the police, or haul ass into a yard.  He started panicking and fighting back, perfectly legit response for a scared human who these pieces of shit had turned into prey.  

The bolded part has been stuck in my mind.  Seems to me like may have been tipped off, know the shooters... something.  I would bet a dollar to a donut he's involved with the shooters somehow and may even be complicit in the killings.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32076

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

The bolded part has been stuck in my mind.  Seems to me like may have been tipped off, know the shooters... something.  I would bet a dollar to a donut he's involved with the shooters somehow and may even be complicit in the killings.

According to the DA letter above, it was Bryan Williams, or William Bryan, a friend of the shooters who followed them.

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Vito Andolini

Vito Andolini 9446

Posted
Posted

Clif Notes of the GBI announcement, they’ve been asked to investigate the shooting by the Governor and Special DA, and will do so, using three veteran investigators from three different locations to avoid local bullshit. I suspect the video ramped up the heat, it’s obvious these rednecks fucked up, and Kemp doesn’t seem to want to die defending their hill of shit. The head of the GBI mentioned “wanting justice” several times, and any reasonable person watching the video would presume they have to come up with charges.

Even in Georgia.

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17924

Posted
Posted

Everyone needs to stop jumping to conclusions And acting hysterical and wait for the video to come out. And why does everyone only care about white people shooting blacks? And how are we even supposed to know if the white guys are racist? It’s impossible. 

/video shows black guy getting murdered by racist rednecks 

I have several black friends, just so you know. 

 

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8266

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, crash_davis said:

Get out of here with the utter bullshit. The mental gymnastics that you do to justify your shit is delusionally impressive.

Below is verbatim from the first DA's letter on Feb 23rd. He seemed to have enough evidence to think it was all perfectly legal. He didn't seem to need to wait for evidence. Notice the last sentence where the piece of shit DA blames the victim. It's May 6 and still no charges. The only reason this is being discussed is because of the news focus. If there had been no video evidence, this would have been just another example racist pieces of shits killing a black man because he was black and getting away with it and you would have no problems with it.

 

 

Second As to the case at hand: Itismy professional belief the autopsy confirms what wehad already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately atthe scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th, 2020 atthe briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at that time. Wedo not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.

Third

It appears Travis McMichael,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in pursuit burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in theirneighborhood, and asking/ tellinghim to stop. Itappearstheir intentwas to stop and hold this criminal suspectuntil law enforcement arrived. UnderGeorgia Law this is perfectly legal, OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private personmay arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arresthim upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .”

Fourth

It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichaelhad firearmsbeing carried in an open fashion . The investigation showsneither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision , they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. UnderGeorgia Law this is legalopen carry .

OCGA 16- 11- 126 ) Any person whoisnotprohibitedby law from possessinga handgun orlonggun may have or carry on his or her person a weapon orlong gun on his orherproperty or insidehis orher home, motorvehicle, orplaceof business withouta valid weaponscarry license. (b ) Any personwho isnotprohibited by law from possessinga handgun or longgun may haveor carry on his or her person a long gun withouta valid weaponscarry license, provided thatifthe long gun is loaded, it shall only be carried in an open and fully exposedmanner.” 2 of 3

Fifth

The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in realtime. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichaelwho was standing at the front left corner ofthetruck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun andpull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistentwith the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight arealso consistent with the upward angle ofblood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun . Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while weknow McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do notknow who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible. Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man .

Reads like a defense argument.

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8266

Posted
Posted

My unsubstantiated theory is this "Neighborhood Watch" has a police scanner and some sort of radio network or text group that sends out the bat signal whenever a person of color is in the neighborhood and they all take it upon themselves to show themselves and be armed.  If it was a radio there may not be discovery but hopefully it's nextdoor, facebook messenger, or SMS that can be recovered and admitted to evidence.  I would bet the Duke Brothers that record would be revealing.

The prior gun burglary and the inspection of the construction site are just excuses (in their mind justification) for their actions to harass and dispense their form of vigilante justice. 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34603

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Right, I got that. I just don't understand the reference with the screenshot, maybe I forgot something that happened?

Oklahoma State fans like to believe that the player at the bottom of the screen for the Cowboys was lined up a yard behind the player immediately to his left. Pokoloco is an Oklahoma State guy, so it's a good reference to show how people will just believe what they want to believe.

(20:10)

Also, how exactly did the shooters suspect the victim of a crime when he was jogging and not carrying anything? On my first viewing of the murder I didn't notice him carrying anything and because there won't be a second viewing let me know if I'm wrong.

Edited by Huckleberry
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yoladu

yoladu 4190

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Also, how exactly did the shooters suspect the victim of a crime when he was jogging and not carrying anything? On my first viewing of the murder I didn't notice him carrying anything and because there won't be a second viewing let me know if I'm wrong.

Their car was broken into 3 weeks earlier, saw a black guy jogging in their neighborhood, and did redneck math.

someone did call 911 reporting (likely unknown to said rednecks), that he was "snooping" around a house under construction (which i will admit i have done about a half a dozen times). I highly doubt he stole anything. Was he jogging with copper wiring or a granite countertop?

Edited by yoladu
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MrBig

MrBig 5626

Posted
Posted

All this talk of the authority to make a “citizen’s arrest” is bullshit. The only time a citizens arrest should occur is when an adult is caught doing inappropriate things to a child. Pin the fucker down and console the child until the cops come. None of this citizens arrest crap because some dude was running from an empty construction site or jogging in the vicinity of a suspected criminal. 

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