How common is a hail damage roof replacement?

[Your Mom 4,837]

We got any roofers?  How often is someone who needs a new roof is able to get insurance to pay for it?

I'm buying a house in Austin.  It needs a new roof.  That is obvious and indisputable.  Currently negotiating with the sellers to have them pay for it.  If they won't I'm probably walking away.  My preference is to simply have them do it rather than negotiate a lower sales price, which would still have me paying cash out of pocket for the new roof.  Just sold my old house and want to keep as much cash on hand as possible for a while.  I'd rather pay full price for the house with a new roof than take a discount to do the roof myself.

But let's say it doesn't go that way and I end up on the hook for it.  Is letting it ride through the summer and hoping for a hailstorm a realistic strategy?  If a hailstorm does happen to pass by in the next few months, is it still likely they can figure out exactly what damage on my roof is due to that storm vs just old age damage and deny the claim?  Does the strategy of hoping for a storm really work out for most folks who already need a roof?  Insurance will be with USAA and they've told me all homeowners policies though them are full roof replacement, not actual cash value.  But still...

This seems like a gamble I don't want to take.  Am I right?  

 

[deadshank 24,653]

@ROFL BOX will soon be flying over your neighborhood in a 1966 Piper Cub and seeding the clouds.  Send him a semaphore message when he goes by and he will get back to you.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

26 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

We got any roofers?  How often is someone who needs a new roof is able to get insurance to pay for it?

I'm buying a house in Austin.  It needs a new roof.  That is obvious and indisputable.  Currently negotiating with the sellers to have them pay for it.  If they won't I'm probably walking away.  My preference is to simply have them do it rather than negotiate a lower sales price, which would still have me paying cash out of pocket for the new roof.  Just sold my old house and want to keep as much cash on hand as possible for a while.  I'd rather pay full price for the house with a new roof than take a discount to do the roof myself.

But let's say it doesn't go that way and I end up on the hook for it.  Is letting it ride through the summer and hoping for a hailstorm a realistic strategy?  If a hailstorm does happen to pass by in the next few months, is it still likely they can figure out exactly what damage on my roof is due to that storm vs just old age damage and deny the claim?  Does the strategy of hoping for a storm really work out for most folks who already need a roof?  Insurance will be with USAA and they've told me all homeowners policies though them are full roof replacement, not actual cash value.  But still...

This seems like a gamble I don't want to take.  Am I right?  

 

Some insurance companies inspect homes before they will insure them.  This is why.  The thoroughness of that inspection will vary by company.  For some, the agent takes pictures from the front and back of the house.  Some hire an independent third party to do it.  This isn’t like a home inspection that a buyer has done.  In and out, 15-30 minutes tops.  Now some don’t inspect every home they insure, but I would imagine that an area that suffered major hail damage recently would probably move to the top of the list.

Edited April 29, 2020 by conVINCEd
Added info

[Your Mom 4,837]

54 minutes ago, deadshank said:

@ROFL BOX will soon be flying over your neighborhood in a 1966 Piper Cub and seeding the clouds.  Send him a semaphore message when he goes by and he will get back to you.

ROLFBOX wait!  Too soon!  No cloud seeding until after May 25 please!

[Your Mom 4,837]

49 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Some insurance companies inspect homes before they will insure them.  This is why.  The thoroughness of that inspection will vary by company.  For some, the agent takes pictures from the front and back of the house.

This house has obvious damage clearly visible from the street.  That's ok though.  Working on ways to get the seller to pay for it anyway.  

[Updawg 2,286]

Get roflbox to come check it out. He can tell you how to approach it

Is the roof that bad that it is already leaking? If so there may be bigger issues than the roof

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

words words words

Sending you a PM.

On Tapa & the discussion is faster via phone than small screen clicks.

One thing to consider is my warranty is to you whereas the seller may be looking for the cheapest exit possible & the person they hire is... what?

Additionally, if it is an insurance paid job, that is a lower cost for a deductible rather than 100% out of pocket. State law as of 01 Sept 19 requires if there is a recoverable depreciation, the deductible has to be paid. There is actual State mandated language that a contract has to have if the work is insurance paid... specific words, font size, etc.

So instead of getting jerked around by the seller who thinks they have to throw $ 12,000.00 out of pocket, why not simply spend your deductible for $ 3,500.00 & move ahead without the hassles?

PS: We get paid the final balance @ closing all the time.

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[NeverMarryAStripper 21,920]

No way would I have a seller do a repair of that magnitude.  You would get the absolute shittiest job they could possibly get.  At the very least negotiate a reduction in the price and have the repairs done yourself.

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

No way would I have a seller do a repair of that magnitude.  You would get the absolute shittiest job they could possibly get.  At the very least negotiate a reduction in the price and have the repairs done yourself.

If there is a deductible vs. the entire bill, go for the deductible & ensure YOU get to specify the contractor & review the docs.

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[Your Mom 4,837]

ROLF I got a few things going on but I'll give you a call later. 

17 minutes ago, Updawg said:

Is the roof that bad that it is already leaking? If so there may be bigger issues than the roof

Yep.  Already been inspected by 1 home inspector and 2 roofers... (sorry Rolf, Surly wasn't on my mind and I already had a couple references from family and friends... but no decision has been made yet on who will pay for the new roof nor who will do the work).  There is a leak at a vent and some minor water damage behind a wall.  That'll be addressed separately and immediately regardless of what get's decided about the rest of the  roof.  

1 minute ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

No way would I have a seller do a repair of that magnitude.  You would get the absolute shittiest job they could possibly get.  At the very least negotiate a reduction in the price and have the repairs done yourself.

The problem with that is that I get a price reduction, amortized over 30 years, which might drop my payment by a few bucks a month but the repair costs me $13,000 right now.  Hence the question about how likely it is to hope for a hail storm.  In a perfect world I negotiate a price reduction or cash credit now,  seal up the leaky vent and clear out the drywall it leaked on immediately at the seller's expense, and then hope for a hail storm this summer and have insurance pay for the roof while I enjoy the price reduction or cash credit.  

Or maybe just say fuck it and move on.  It's at the perfect location but I don't get too emotional about houses.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

47 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

ROLF I got a few things going on but I'll give you a call later. 

Yep.  Already been inspected by 1 home inspector and 2 roofers... (sorry Rolf, Surly wasn't on my mind and I already had a couple references from family and friends... but no decision has been made yet on who will pay for the new roof nor who will do the work).  There is a leak at a vent and some minor water damage behind a wall.  That'll be addressed separately and immediately regardless of what get's decided about the rest of the  roof.  

The problem with that is that I get a price reduction, amortized over 30 years, which might drop my payment by a few bucks a month but the repair costs me $13,000 right now.  Hence the question about how likely it is to hope for a hail storm.  In a perfect world I negotiate a price reduction or cash credit now,  seal up the leaky vent and clear out the drywall it leaked on immediately at the seller's expense, and then hope for a hail storm this summer and have insurance pay for the roof while I enjoy the price reduction or cash credit.  

Or maybe just say fuck it and move on.  It's at the perfect location but I don't get too emotional about houses.

How old is the house?  Where is it located? There are a bunch of other questions I would have, but the odds are strong that the insurance company will do enough due diligence prior to insuring it that if the roof damage is visible from the street  they will decline to insure it.   

[luke duke 6,413]

Currently negotiating with the sellers to have them pay for it.  If they won't I'm probably walking away.  My preference is to simply have them do it rather than negotiate a lower sales price

Enjoy the lowest quality roof installed by the worst/cheapest roofer that the home owner can find.

[Clintonaldo 2,576]

Do they depreciate roofs in Texas?

[woohorn 1,131]

USAA did not inspect the last time I went through this. Just questions on phone.

[wd40 1,976]

you gonna get roofied.  don't get married to that cash.

NO ONE in a real estate deal has your interests in mind except you.  that includes the inspector (unless he's your dad or somebody, maybe).  they are there to get paid.  they're all scum and should be filleted.  but that might be the cazadores talking. 

I'm saying the roof is probably just the tip of the iceberg.  and I agree with Luke on the quality of the job you can expect from getting the seller to do it.

also, if COA, you might check for open permits on the property.  I could tell you a funny story, but it would only have a happy ending if EVERYONE WORKING FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT WAS SET ON FIRE HAHAHAHHAHAHA FUCK THEM.

 

wait what?  was that out loud?

[conVINCEd 21,469]

2 minutes ago, woohorn said:

USAA did not inspect the last time I went through this. Just questions on phone.

Do you know they didn’t inspect?  Sometimes a drive-by is sufficient, depending on the property, and you would never know it happened.

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

Lots of people aren't aware that they have what we call an "ACV only" policy.  Actual Ca$h Value means you only get compensated for the life left in your roof, minus the deductible.  Any depreciation is not collectable.

Example:  $ 12,000.00 estimated total replacement value on a 30 year type shingle & the shingles have been in place for 25 years.  83% aged, but for the sake of this, let's use 15% left, / 85% depreciated / aged.

That means you would get $ 10,200 depreciated / $ 1,800 cash value.  If you have even a $ 2,000 deductible, you get nil.

If the shingles are 20 years old on a 30 year expected life span ("Dimensional / Architectural" type shingle), that's 1/3 remaining, 2/3 aged.

Using the same $ 12,000 example on an ACV only policy, that's $ 3,960 cash value paid, less that suggested $ 2,000 deductible, you're only receiving $ 1,960 to affect repairs & NOT getting the depreciation.

My point here is that EVERYONE should review their policy.  You could have someone write you what seems like a really competitive or lower price & you jump on it, only to find out in your hour of need that you have a shit policy.

[conVINCEd 21,469]

4 minutes ago, ROFL BOX said:

Lots of people aren't aware that they have what we call an "ACV only" policy.  Actual Ca$h Value means you only get compensated for the life left in your roof, minus the deductible.  Any depreciation is not collectable.

Example:  $ 12,000.00 estimated total replacement value on a 30 year type shingle & the shingles have been in place for 25 years.  83% aged, but for the sake of this, let's use 15% left, / 85% depreciated / aged.

That means you would get $ 10,200 depreciated / $ 1,800 cash value.  If you have even a $ 2,000 deductible, you get nil.

If the shingles are 20 years old on a 30 year expected life span ("Dimensional / Architectural" type shingle), that's 1/3 remaining, 2/3 aged.

Using the same $ 12,000 example on an ACV only policy, that's $ 3,960 cash value paid, less that suggested $ 2,000 deductible, you're only receiving $ 1,960 to affect repairs & NOT getting the depreciation.

My point here is that EVERYONE should review their policy.  You could have someone write you what seems like a really competitive or lower price & you jump on it, only to find out in your hour of need that you have a shit policy.

In theory, I’m ok with the roof being depreciated.   It makes sense.  In reality, it puts a lot of folks in a bad place.  If it would put you in a bad place, pay a little more for your homeowners policy.

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

Depreciation is fine, provided you can recover that money.

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[Your Mom 4,837]

Updating this... a deal has been reached. Buyer (me) and seller each got roof quotes. No surprise their quote was less than mine and didn’t include some extra trim work that needs to be done.  They’ve agreed to use my guy and the full amount of work my guys says is needed.  Seller is paying the bill. Owens Corning Trudefinition Duration, dimensional, 5 year labor and lifetime material warranty in my name.  I was hoping to get cash for this instead and roll the dice down the road with an insurance claim but this works just as well. 

I did learn that USAA, my insurer, does not issue actual cash value policies.  They do full roof replacement regardless of roof age.  Moot point now though.   Thanks for everyone’s input. 

[wd40 1,976]

damn.

Mom:  go cut yourself a switch

seller:

Spoiler

 

[Your Mom 4,837]

Didn't even have to set anyone on fire!  

 

[wd40 1,976]

yet

[conVINCEd 21,469]

7 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Updating this... a deal has been reached. Buyer (me) and seller each got roof quotes. No surprise their quote was less than mine and didn’t include some extra trim work that needs to be done.  They’ve agreed to use my guy and the full amount of work my guys says is needed.  Seller is paying the bill. Owens Corning Trudefinition Duration, dimensional, 5 year labor and lifetime material warranty in my name.  I was hoping to get cash for this instead and roll the dice down the road with an insurance claim but this works just as well. 

I did learn that USAA, my insurer, does not issue actual cash value policies.  They do full roof replacement regardless of roof age.  Moot point now though.   Thanks for everyone’s input. 

That’s the right outcome for you.