Texas Women's Basketball 2020-2021 "A New Era"

[Js1 85056]

Just now, Machinator said:

Just noticed that Vic didn't use a timeout in the game. Is that normal for him?

Think that says a lot about how much he trusted his team.  Didn’t need to make any major adjustments. Trusted them late to inbound and beat the pressure without having to advance the ball. 

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Think that says a lot about how much he trusted his team.  Didn’t need to make any major adjustments. Trusted them late to inbound and beat the pressure without having to advance the ball. 

I was impressed with the way the ladies continually staved off UCLA's scoring runs.

[ztejas 43244]

12 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

I don’t watch a ton of women’s basketball but this game seemed horribly officiated, especially the blocks and charges.  I also caught the end of the Iowa State game and they let them play like it was a hockey game.

I'm sure Pancho could speak to this but officiating seems to get markedly worse the further down you go. NBA refs call some bad games but they are so much better than college refs who are in turn generally better than the typical high school reffing I've seen. I'd imagine women's D1 officials - or perhaps just the way the game is officiated - are/is at least worse than D1 mens which would make them/it pretty brutal at times. 

And likewise I'd imagine the officiating in the WNBA is a step up from D1 womens.

Edited March 25, 2021 by ztejas

[pacman 7309]

Amazing work by our Lady Longhorns

[Radical Larry 28523]

 

[Pancho 44358]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm sure Pancho could speak to this but officiating seems to get markedly worse the further down you go. NBA refs call some bad games but they are so much better than college refs who are in turn generally better than the typical high school reffing I've seen. I'd imagine women's D1 officials - or perhaps just the way the game is officiated - are/is at least worse than D1 mens which would make them/it pretty brutal at times. 

And likewise I'd imagine the officiating in the WNBA is a step up from D1 womens.

There’s some top refs who I haven’t seen in the women’s tournament.  I’m not sure if it’s because of COVID or what.

I’ve said on this website and others—the problem with college officiating is a lack of oversight.  Sure, college refs get fired all the time, but the top ones you see in the big P5 conferences and in the NCAA tournament aren’t getting fired because they are independent contractors who are known with their bosses so yes, it’s political.  There are some great officials in the lower conferences who probably will never get a chance. The NBA refs are “so much better” than college refs because they are under one “roof” meaning they have a 1 boss, 1 “conference” (the NBA), and the NBA provides them a salary and benefits.  They also do stuff like you can’t ref back-to-back games because the NBA game you just reffed you must spend hours breaking it down.  The top college refs (P5) dont’ have to do that shit.  For example, Brenda Pantoja was the Latina ref in our game tonight.  She mostly refs PAC12 but also refs Big 12.  She can ref at Washington State on a Tuesday and then be assigned in Austin on Wednesday.  In the NBA, if you’re at Dallas on Tuesday, your next game will probably be something like OKC that Thursday and you must break down every play form the Dallas game with your crew.  College isn’t like that. 

Finally, in the tournament, college refs (women and men) over officiate and overthink because you want to get as many CCs as possible so you can move on within the tournament.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[dcar00 14023]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

There’s some top refs who I haven’t seen in the women’s tournament.  I’m not sure if it’s because of COVID or what.

I’ve said on this website and others—the problem with college officiating is a lack of oversight.  Sure, college refs get fired all the time, but the top ones you see in the big P5 conferences and in the NCAA tournament aren’t getting fired because they are independent contractors who are known with their bosses so yes, it’s political.  There are some great officials in the lower conferences who probably will never get a chance. The NBA refs are “so much better” than college refs because they are under one “roof” meaning they have a 1 boss, 1 “conference” (the NBA), and the NBA provides them a salary and benefits.  They also do stuff like you can’t ref back-to-back games because the NBA game you just reffed you must spend hours breaking it down.  The top college refs (P5) dont’ have to do that shit.  For example, Brenda Pantoja was the Latina ref in our game tonight.  She mostly refs PAC12 but also refs Big 12.  She can ref at Washington State on a Tuesday and then be assigned in Austin on Wednesday.  In the NBA, if you’re at Dallas on Tuesday, your next game will probably be something like OKC that Thursday and you must break down every play form the Dallas game with your crew.  College isn’t like that. 

Finally, in the tournament, college refs (women and men) over officiate and overthink because you want to get as many CCs as possible so you can move on within the tournament.

what is a CC?

[Iguana 229]

btw.  Schaefer with the gamesmanship.  He said in an interview the players would think he had lost his mind if he did not press.  I do not believe they ever went into a full blown press. 

[Pancho 44358]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

what is a CC?

CC = Call Correct

NCI = No Call Incorrect

NCC = No Call Correct

CI = Call Incorrect

It’s how we are graded/judged by evaluators who watch the games. Now the most CCs doesn’t necessarily mean you’re moving on but it definitely boosts your chances. 

[Js1 85056]

 

[ztejas 43244]

6 minutes ago, Pancho said:

There’s some top refs who I haven’t seen in the women’s tournament.  I’m not sure if it’s because of COVID or what.

I’ve said on this website and others—the problem with college officiating is a lack of oversight.  Sure, college refs get fired all the time, but the top ones you see in the big P5 conferences and in the NCAA tournament aren’t getting fired because they are independent contractors who are known with their bosses so yes, it’s political.  There are some great officials in the lower conferences who probably will never get a chance. The NBA refs are “so much better” than college refs because they are under one “roof” meaning they have a 1 boss, 1 “conference” (the NBA), and the NBA provides them a salary and benefits.  They also do stuff like you can’t ref back-to-back games because the NBA game you just reffed you must spend hours breaking it down.  The top college refs (P5) dont’ have to do that shit.  For example, Brenda Pantoja was the Latina ref in our game tonight.  She mostly refs PAC12 but also refs Big 12.  She can ref at Washington State on a Tuesday and then be assigned in Austin on Wednesday.  In the NBA, if you’re at Dallas on Tuesday, your next game will probably be something like OKC that Thursday and you must break down every play form the Dallas game with your crew.  College isn’t like that. 

Finally, in the tournament, college refs (women and men) over officiate and overthink because you want to get as many CCs as possible so you can move on within the tournament.

Yeah I was trying to hint at it maybe being just as much about the organizational structure of it all than the refs themselves. Which from your comment sounds about right. There is millions of dollars on the line in every single NBA game - so of course their officials are going to be held to a higher standard and under more scrutiny than someone reffing a women's game in December between Texas State and SFA. Does that mean the officials in the women's game suck? No, they just don't have to be as good. 

[Pancho 44358]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah I was trying to hint at it maybe being just as much about the organizational structure of it all than the refs themselves. Which from your comment sounds about right. There is millions of dollars on the line in every single NBA game - so of course their officials are going to be held to a higher standard and under more scrutiny than someone reffing a women's game in December between Texas State and SFA. Does that mean the officials in the women's game suck? No, they just don't have to be as good. 

Correct, and someone like Brenda, Tina, Dee, or Kevin Pethel (who was the male ref in tonight’s game) isn’t going to be reffing any UTSA, Texas State or SFA games even though they could.

for men, John Higgins or Keith Kimble isn’t going to be reffing at Texas A&M - Corpus Christi game ever again, so some ref has to ref that.

 

 

Found this:

 

[dcar00 14023]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

CC = Call Correct

NCI = No Call Incorrect

NCC = No Call Correct

CI = Call Incorrect

It’s how we are graded/judged by evaluators who watch the games. Now the most CCs doesn’t necessarily mean you’re moving on but it definitely boosts your chances. 

is that why you might see more calls later in the game for a team that is way down when a ref knows they won't affect the outcome?  the womens game is weird also because it seems like there are more off balance, strange looking "wtf that must have been a foul" type stuff.  of course its slower so that might make it easier.

[Pancho 44358]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

is that why you might see more calls later in the game for a team that is way down when a ref knows they won't affect the outcome?  the womens game is weird also because it seems like there are more off balance, strange looking "wtf that must have been a foul" type stuff.  of course its slower so that might make it easier.

Well reffing women is just way different because of athleticism. And also with women (unlike with men), they can be down 25 points and it turn into a fight EASILY.  When I’m reffing a game and a team is down like UCLA was today, from my experience, it makes it harder to officiate because women get more “I WILL FIGHT YOU!” During every possession.  If you let your guard down as a ref because of a big lead, the chances of a fight breaking out increase a shit ton.  The team that’s down a lot feels like they aren’t getting a fair shake so their aggression turns up.

[conVINCEd 21468]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

is that why you might see more calls later in the game for a team that is way down when a ref knows they won't affect the outcome?  the womens game is weird also because it seems like there are more off balance, strange looking "wtf that must have been a foul" type stuff.  of course its slower so that might make it easier.

In my limited experience as a referee many years ago, slower makes it harder.  More bodies occupying the same space.  The easiest games I ever officiated were high school AAU games.  End to end , little to no defense, and the only thing you were really looking at were potential shooting fouls.  Let them know early that you will let them play within reason and you won’t blow your whistle very often.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[dcar00 14023]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

In my limited experience as a referee many years ago, slower makes it harder.  More bodies occupying the same space.  The easiest games I ever officiated were high school AAU games.  End to end , little to no defense, and the only thing you were really looking at were potential shooting fouls.  Let them know early that you will let them play within reason and you won’t blow your whistle very often.

good point. it seems like a 8 car pileup every time a lady drives the lane.  there isn't as much drive and kick out.  if I'm a coach I just tell everyone to collapse because it seems like 90% of the time the driver is going to put up the shot.

[conVINCEd 21468]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

good point. it seems like a 8 car pileup every time a lady drives the lane.  there isn't as much drive and kick out.  if I'm a coach I just tell everyone to collapse because it seems like 90% of the time the driver is going to put up the shot.

It’s a different game than when I officiated on the men’s side.  My friend’s kid is banging home 25 ft 3’s in the 8th grade now.  I didn’t ref a lot of girls games, but I did do some, and the lack of athleticism absolutely clogs things up, which makes it much harder to officiate.  The girls don’t seem to be as good at knocking down 3’s as the boys, so yes, pack the lane. I rarely blew my whistle when I reffed. If you were out of control and looking for a call, you probably weren’t getting it from me.

[Js1 85056]

 

[Js1 85056]

Secured Texas' 16th trip to the Sweet 16, and first in program history as a No. 6 seed or lower.
• The win was UT's third ever as a lower seed in an NCAA Tournament Game (1990 vs. NC State; 2003 vs LSU).
• Was Texas' first win over a top-three seed in the NCAA Tournament since the 2016 Sweet 16, which was also a win over No. 3 UCLA.

[Tylerocks 2551]

I'm glad I found this thread and checked back a couple of pages to see some of the comments on the officials.

I don't watch women's basketball, but I watched the majority of the 2nd half last night and I couldn't believe the calls that were being made.

Is that par for the course for the women's game?  I mean, it was almost unwatchable because of all the stoppages.  

I mean our girls were getting blasted by semi-moving screens and nothing...then shit would get called with very little contact at the basket.

Shit's weird, man.

Hook 'em though.  Glad to see them stave them off with their best player on the bench

[VirginiaLonghorn 4750]

10 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

I don’t watch a ton of women’s basketball but this game seemed horribly officiated, especially the blocks and charges.  I also caught the end of the Iowa State game and they let them play like it was a hockey game.

That’s a disservice to hockey officials ... who even admit to “evening things up” on occasion.

[Js1 85056]

Vic is going to have his work cut out for him scouting and game planning until Sunday.  This team can enjoy their win today and then needs to get to work.

Maryland: 26-2 (17-1), only losses to #24 Missouri State and #17 Ohio State. They have wins over Sweet 16 teams in Indiana (84-80), Iowa (111-93), Michigan (88-63) and Iowa in the B1G Champ game (104-84)

This team can score the fucking ball.  But they also give up a lot of points in their games: 96, 87, 82, 80, 87, 88, 93, 84

• Average 91.8 ppg, give up 69.1 ppg
• Shoot 50% as a team and 41% from three (opponents: 41% and 33%)
• 79% FT shooting team and get 15.8 FTA per game (opponents get 10.8)
• +8 in rebounding (41.3-33.4)
• Average 12 turnovers per game and turn you over 16.5 times per game

I've talked previous about their roster - their starting 5 is usually:

Ashley Owusu - 6'0 sophomore guard
Diamond Miller - 6'3 sophomore guard
Chloe Bibby - 6'1 senior forward
Katie Benzan - 5'6 senior guard
Mimi Collins - 6'3 RS Sophomore forward

Off the bench, it is usually: Faith Masonius, 6'1 sophomore forward; Channise Lewis, 5'8 RS junior guard, Alaysia Styles, 6'3 senior forward and Angel Reese, 6'3 freshman forward

They are long and every single player shoots the fucking ball.  6 players who average double digits. 

Owusu - 18.1 ppg, 50% FG , 30% from three, 76% FT 
Miller - 17.1 ppg, 51% FG, 36% from three, 79% FT 
Bibby - 13.1 ppg, 44% FG, 36% from three, 87% FT
Benzan - 12.9 ppg, 50% FG, 51% from three, 94% FT
Collins - 10.8 ppg, 52% FG. 41% from three, 81% FT 

And Angel Reese off the bench is 10.7 ppg.

 

I don't even know how you even try to stop them.  You can't.  If you go cold for even a couple of minutes, you're likely to find yourself down 15 points. 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Js1 85056]

There’s def rumblings of discontent at Miss St....

[kingkoopa6 8305]

Noice! Way to go ladies!

[TheBryMan81 2495]

2 hours ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

That’s a disservice to hockey officials ... who even admit to “evening things up” on occasion.

I mean, a NHL ref got caught on a hot mic just a couple days ago admitting to that.

"it wasn't much, but I wanted to get a fucking penalty against Nashville early."

Players said in response to this that makeup calls are known to be pretty common in the sport.

[Pancho 44358]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

There’s def rumblings of discontent at Miss St....

[Machinator 32097]

 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4750]

51 minutes ago, TheBryMan81 said:

I mean, a NHL ref got caught on a hot mic just a couple days ago admitting to that.

"it wasn't much, but I wanted to get a fucking penalty against Nashville early."

Players said in response to this that makeup calls are known to be pretty common in the sport.

... and pussy remaining undefeated is another sure thing. 😉

IMO, hockey is the best game we have ... but, I’ll never understand why the powers in charge have always turned a blind eye to the BS officiating everyone else sees.

[Js1 85056]

I'd love to know what moron on Close's staff did defensive scouting of Texas. That was one of the worst first-half scouting reports I have likely ever seen. 

Texas is very good at stopping jump shots - so UCLA went 6-28 in the first half, 0-8 from three and only got to the line 2 times.

Then they go into the locker room and Close realizes Texas struggles when you drive right at them - they'll likely foul you.  Down 21, they shoot 7-14 in the 3rd Q and go to the line 15 times - sending both Warren and Charli to the bench with foul trouble.  Smart! 

Then they decided to shoot 8 of their 21 shots in the fourth quarter from three in a 9-12 point game and only hit 1.  They only went to the line 8 times in the 4th Q.

[LTtxfan 48928]

25 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I'd love to know what moron on Close's staff did defensive scouting of Texas. That was one of the worst first-half scouting reports I have likely ever seen. 

Texas is very good at stopping jump shots - so UCLA went 6-28 in the first half, 0-8 from three and only got to the line 2 times.

Then they go into the locker room and Close realizes Texas struggles when you drive right at them - they'll likely foul you.  Down 21, they shoot 7-14 in the 3rd Q and go to the line 15 times - sending both Warren and Charli to the bench with foul trouble.  Smart! 

Then they decided to shoot 8 of their 21 shots in the fourth quarter from three in a 9-12 point game and only hit 1.  They only went to the line 8 times in the 4th Q.

Great stuff... Thx !!! 👊😎

[Js1 85056]

I guess, in hindsight, you could see how close Vic was all season.  Inconsistent team and he talked about how they had issues off-the-court with road games and stuff.

• The 5 point loss to aggy.
• The road loss at Tech
• The 6 point loss at home to WV
• The 7 point loss at home to Baylor
• The 5 point OT loss at home to OU

We got mud-holed by Baylor in Waco on 2/14 by 25 points, only managing to score a whopping 35 point.  That is where Vic could have just absolutely lost this team.

After that miserable night, we've won 6 of our last 9, with 2 losses to Baylor (by 7 and 11 points) and the OT loss to OU by 5.  Included in those 6 wins was a third win over ISU and the win over UCLA. 

[ClubWhatever 12085]

I see that Miss St missed the tourney.  Did they have COVID or did they just suck because no Vic?

[VirginiaLonghorn 4750]

7 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

I see that Miss St missed the tourney.  Did they have COVID or did they just suck because no Vic?

Vic’s Vapor Lock ...

[Js1 85056]

2 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

I see that Miss St missed the tourney.  Did they have COVID or did they just suck because no Vic?

I don’t think McCray was ready for this job.  They had 6 players transfer out.  But still brought in a 5 star recruit and kept their top 2019 recruit too. 

Roster stays intact if Vic stays. Maybe if they promoted Johnnie Harris as well.  MSU wanted big and might have overshot it. 

[Js1 85056]

Interesting breakdown by Danny Davis -  Brenda's offense vs. Vic's defense

Maryland averages 91.8 ppg.  Texas has only allowed one team all year to surpass that - WV on 1/9
Texas only allows 62.7 ppg.  Maryland has only failed to score that many points once - Northwestern on 2/28

In 29 games, opponents only exceeded their season average in scoring 6 times (Drake, WV both times, KU, @ Tech, ISU in the Big 12 tournament).  And only once in the past 11 games, which went to OT. 

Texas has played 4 teams that rank in the top 25 offensively.  We are 4-4.  We have allowed 67 ppg to those teams (Baylor 3 times, ISU 3 times, Drake, A&M). 

[Js1 85056]

UConn wins by 20 over Iowa. Christyn Williams took over for UConn, she almost came here 

Paige Buckets almost had a triple double 

[Js1 85056]

Michigan taking Baylor to OT

[Js1 85056]

Baylor will escape but UConn is going to hurt them.  

[Js1 85056]

6 seed Michigan lost by 3 in OT to Baylor

4 seed Indiana just took down 1 seed NC State

DO. YOU. BELIEVE??

I say we have a chance. Maybe it won’t be a blowout. 

[Js1 85056]

Zona up 3 on A&M at half 

[Pancho 44358]

39 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Zona up 3 on A&M at half 

Yeah, well now they are up 14

[Js1 85056]

Aggy commits an extremely hard foul on Zona. No review. Shocker 

Fuck ‘em bc Aari McDonald has 28 and they’re up 58-44 on aggy 

[Js1 85056]

Zona up 13 after 3. 59-46

[Js1 85056]

WCBB better learn Adia Barnes’ name. She’s young, personable, a great recruiter and a heckuva coach. And she’s at her alma mater so unlikely she’ll get poached.  More likely to turn UA into a powerhouse. 

[Pancho 44358]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Aggy commits an extremely hard foul on Zona. No review. Shocker 

Fuck ‘em bc Aari McDonald has 28 and they’re up 58-44 on aggy 

There were two shots to the head by A&M to Arizona players and neither one was looked at.  The 2nd was was a no brainer, and I think they’ll get their ass chewed for not looking at that one. 

This has the feeling it’s Blair’s last season. 

[Js1 85056]

Sure seems that way. Our S16 run and Vic’s reaction makes me feel good he’s not in danger of going. 

Think they’d promote Kelly Bond-White. She’s been there all 15 years of the Blair program 

MSU is exhibit A of keep it in house. Not hiring Johnnie Harris was their huge mistake. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Js1

[Pancho 44358]

TexAgs already mentioning Blair retiring and them bringing in Vic.