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Joe Biden Veepstakes 2020

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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'stache
'stache

Kamala Harris would make a terrible VP and must be defeated. -Marco Rubio

maninblack
maninblack

A demented old man that's been in Washington for 50 years just nominated a cop that blew Willie Brown to advance her political career. If you can't see how all of this is funny then that's your proble

Ghost of LL
Ghost of LL

So you're saying that Donald Trump is going to wish her well?

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20869

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Harris is a young(comparatively), smart, qualified candidate who also happens to be more than capable of destroying Pence and Trump every time she steps in front of a mic.  She would have been a top candidate for 2024.  She was the smart money from the beginning - and no one ever accused Dem leadership of original thinking.

Warren would have been my choice - she was my choice in the primary - but might be better served leading the Senate.  

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406W30th

406W30th 1111

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53 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Harris is a young(comparatively), smart, qualified candidate who also happens to be more than capable of destroying Pence and Trump every time she steps in front of a mic.  She would have been a top candidate for 2024.  She was the smart money from the beginning - and no one ever accused Dem leadership of original thinking.

Warren would have been my choice - she was my choice in the primary - but might be better served leading the Senate.  

Warren is my top choice, by a wide margin. But Biden picking Harris, the Dems taking control of the Senate, and Warren as the majority leader is absolutely a dream scenario. Not a perfect analog by any means, but who's currently more influential – Mike Pence or Mitch McConnell? 

 

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8066

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1 hour ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Harris is a young(comparatively), smart, qualified candidate who also happens to be more than capable of destroying Pence and Trump every time she steps in front of a mic.  She would have been a top candidate for 2024.  She was the smart money from the beginning - and no one ever accused Dem leadership of original thinking.

Warren would have been my choice - she was my choice in the primary - but might be better served leading the Senate.  

I know it doesn't usually work this way but I agree.  Chuck Schumer may need to move to a lesser role and have Warren as the leader.  Another topic but I think Peolsi needs to move on, only problem is I don't know who steps up there.

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20869

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16 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

schiff is in the house.

hugo will come in here and tell everyone that there's no way they'll let warren be majority leader, but i agree, that would be awesome.  if ever there was an anti-mcconnell, it's warren.

I think he was referring to TexasEd question about who would step up if Pelosi stepped down.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:


Let’s really go for the ultimate “Fuck you!”.......AOC for Speaker!

(Only half kidding.)

gop - biden is in bed with aoc making secret deals!

dems - oh shut the fuck up.

cnn chyron - speaker aoc arrives at the white house for a closed door meeting with president biden.

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406W30th

406W30th 1111

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3 hours ago, TexasEd said:

I know it doesn't usually work this way but I agree.  Chuck Schumer may need to move to a lesser role and have Warren as the leader.  Another topic but I think Peolsi needs to move on, only problem is I don't know who steps up there.

It's hard to think of someone who wouldn't be an improvement over Pelosi.

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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45 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Christ, Joe, get it together.  This is not a moment for Bass or Demings, and I'm struggling with Rice (although I like her on paper?).

 

i read this article earlier.  i'm not doubting its accuracy, but to try to dismiss someone because she:

-went after the front-runner during the debates

-is focused on becoming president

is stupid as hell.  first of all, you don't "become" the president.  this isn't "house of cards" or something where she's going to be scheming to get the president to resign and take his job.  you win the presidency by people voting for you.  so if she plans to spend the next 4/8 years kicking ass in order to win and become president, then bring it fucking on.  and boo-hoo, she tried to win a debate?  everyone was going after biden, he was the frontrunner the entire time.

both of those reasons makes me like her more.  and unless joe is full of shit (possible), they should make him like her more as well.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48073

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13 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

and to add, republicans have got to be hoping against hope that joe picks a lightweight or a non-politician type like rice.  having someone well-positioned for a presidential run when biden leaves is bad news for them.

I agree with everything you have posted, but I do hope she’s a team player. As a country we need everyone rowing in the same direction to fix our many and myriad problems. I can see her only giving a fuck about herself. A bunch of Cali donors familiar with her also seems like at least like mild cause for concern. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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22 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I agree with everything you have posted, but I do hope she’s a team player. As a country we need everyone rowing in the same direction to fix our many and myriad problems. I can see her only giving a fuck about herself. A bunch of Cali donors familiar with her also seems like at least like mild cause for concern. 

right, but you give a fuck about yourself to what ends?  to get positioned someplace higher up where you can make a difference.  it's hard to get higher than vp, especially for the oldest (potential) president in history.  like i said, once she's vp, then all she can do is position herself as a strong national brand who can get 50.1% of the electoral votes in 24/28.  i think you do that by carrying out the president's wishes, and by being a strong voice (along with several others) when constructing policy, strategy, and direction for the biden administration.

i find it hard to see where ambition would help kamala but somehow wound biden.  unless we're talking about nighttime tv drama, where kamala would be leaking stories of senility to get democratic leaders to force joe out.  it's fiction.

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SydneyCarton

SydneyCarton 48073

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8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Oh no! Not another woman who’s “too ambitious”!

giphy.gif

I mean, I get your joke but her ambition basically crippled the Democratic Party and allowed trump to get elected. So, yeah, considering a Team Player primarily concerned about the vision for America seems like a fair point considering how recently Hillary fucked shit up. 

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3911

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I do think if Joe has in his mind, this is a one term presidency then he's aware his VP choice will give them the inside track to the 2024 nomination and unsure if his desire is to anoint someone.... anyone.  I think Kamala and Warren come with some of the same criticisms this way.  Kamala is a very political animal, nothing wrong with that but there's a lot of work to be done and he needs someone who is going to do some dirty work.  On the other side, is both Kamala and Warren ran mediocre to below average campaigns, especially Kamala, who was saddled with all sorts of infighting in her camp, so perhaps just pick the person best suited to get you into office and let the chips falls in 2024.  I still think Harris is the favorite but as someone said above, whoever he picks is going to get some sort of criticism from the other camps.  Comes with the territory.  Just worry about beating Trump..... nothing else should matter at this point.

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Satchel

Satchel 6936

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12 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

schiff is in the house.

hugo will come in here and tell everyone that there's no way they'll let warren be majority leader, but i agree, that would be awesome.  if ever there was an anti-mcconnell, it's warren.

Schiff or Katy Porter should be preparing to succeed Senator Feinstein. The odd one out should be Biden’s AG.

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Satchel

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3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I do think if Joe has in his mind, this is a one term presidency then he's aware his VP choice will give them the inside track to the 2024 nomination and unsure if his desire is to anoint someone.... anyone.  I think Kamala and Warren come with some of the same criticisms this way.  Kamala is a very political animal, nothing wrong with that but there's a lot of work to be done and he needs someone who is going to do some dirty work.  On the other side, is both Kamala and Warren ran mediocre to below average campaigns, especially Kamala, who was saddled with all sorts of infighting in her camp, so perhaps just pick the person best suited to get you into office and let the chips falls in 2024.  I still think Harris is the favorite but as someone said above, whoever he picks is going to get some sort of criticism from the other camps.  Comes with the territory.  Just worry about beating Trump..... nothing else should matter at this point.

I saw Susan Rice on TV earlier today. I still think she’s the one to beat.

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fellside

fellside 1113

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I get the same creepy, power-hungry, fake vibe from Kamala Harris that I got from Clinton.  If the GOP had half a brain, it would be very easy to turn a lot of those who are frustrated with police against Harris and her record. 

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406W30th

406W30th 1111

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5 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 

There is absolutely a double standard  – men are seen as ambitious while women are seen as conniving or sneaky. (Or, as that tweet points out "too" ambitious.) It's fucking bullshit and it's important that we recognize it and do what we can to change our own perceptions and biases.

That's not my issue with Kamala though. My issue is that she tries to have it both ways – her half-hand raise on supporting M4A which she later walked back (I still have no idea where she stands); her claim that she loved to smoke weed and listen to Tupac, then going on to incarcerate Black men for doing the same when she became a prosecutor and AG of California, etc. 

I have no problem with her ambition. I respect it. I think she's smart and tough, and I think she does a good job of balancing kindness and empathy with ruthlessness when she has to. I just question her authenticity.

 

  

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20869

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10 hours ago, fellside said:

I get the same creepy, power-hungry, fake vibe from Kamala Harris that I got from Clinton.  If the GOP had half a brain, it would be very easy to turn a lot of those who are frustrated with police against Harris and her record. 

So that they can vote for the guy sending federal police cos-playing as mercenaries into our cities?

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BradInATX

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1 hour ago, 406W30th said:

There is absolutely a double standard  – men are seen as ambitious while women are seen as conniving or sneaky. (Or, as that tweet points out "too" ambitious.) It's fucking bullshit and it's important that we recognize it and do what we can to change our own perceptions and biases.

That's not my issue with Kamala though. My issue is that she tries to have it both ways – her half-hand raise on supporting M4A which she later walked back (I still have no idea where she stands); her claim that she loved to smoke weed and listen to Tupac, then going on to incarcerate Black men for doing the same when she became a prosecutor and AG of California, etc. 

I have no problem with her ambition. I respect it. I think she's smart and tough, and I think she does a good job of balancing kindness and empathy with ruthlessness when she has to. I just question her authenticity.

 

  


I'm by no means a Harris sunshine pumper. I like her, but she definitely wouldn't be my first choice. But to your point above about trying to straddle the line into both sides of the Democratic party and ping-ponging back and forth as the polls blew.. basically everyone not named Joe, Amy or Bernie did that. Harris did it, Warren did it, Beto did it, Castro did it, even Buttigieg did it some. It was bad strategy on their part and I believe it's the primary reason Warren lost all of her steam. But she was not alone. I do think she has a few flaws, but I don't think being wishy washy in the primary is going to stick to her long-term.

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The Dog

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I don't know much about Harris but I know enough to say that she's nothing like Hillary. Hillary was a total fraud.

And claims that a politician is "too ambitious" are regularly leveled against women more than men - it just seems overly sexist to me. 

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'stache

'stache 21801

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Hillary had 30 years of baggage, a lot of it unfair and sexist, but baggage nonetheless. Harris has much less.  My only concern with her is her prosecutorial record in a time where many on the left are finally aware of injustices in law enforcement and prosecutions. Rice would have some baggage on the middle east wars (and Benghazi but fuck republicans on that one), so it's sort of even. I think Harris' is easier to overcome and her "ambition" is a good thing. Either way, I hope the "baggage" doesn't play a role here because republicans will shit on whoever it is for any reason. Stop letting them direct the democratic party.

Edited by 'stache
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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5111

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1 hour ago, The Dog said:

I don't know much about Harris but I know enough to say that she's nothing like Hillary. Hillary was a total fraud.

And claims that a politician is "too ambitious" are regularly leveled against women more than men - it just seems overly sexist to me. 

I don't think she was a fraud, I think she was a woman from an era where she had to be extra careful in the way that she spoke and acted because she was doing things that women weren't supposed to do.  She never did learn how to get past that, and she was never able to overcome the absolutely intense blowback that came her way when she started trying to mess with healthcare during Bill's first term.  She started being demonized by Rush from the moment her husband was elected president.  And a lot of that demonization stuck.  Some of it might have been fair, and some of it definitely wasn't.  But enough stuck that she was a terrible candidate, because she never figured out a way to get through those attacks and come out the other side smelling like anything other than shit. 

After the election she did an interview with Howard Stern. If that version of her had been public and available in the years leading up to her run, we'd likely have a President Hillary right now who was dealing with some assholes who didn't want to wear masks, but overall we'd be in a country that has gotten this under control and we'd be mostly getting back to normal by now.  Parents wouldn't be trying to make hard decisions about whether their kids should be in school or not, because the risks would be much much lower.  

And by the way, this isn't me saying she was a good candidate and would've been a good president.  This is me saying she was a terrible candidate and likely would not have been a good president precisely because she was never able to get out from under all the accusations pointed against her from right wing media.  That stuff slid right off of Bill and it all stuck to her.  She never stood a chance unless she could've become more real.  She didn't attempt to do that until after she lost, so she'll never be president.

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3432

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1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I don't think she was a fraud, I think she was a woman from an era where she had to be extra careful in the way that she spoke and acted because she was doing things that women weren't supposed to do.  She never did learn how to get past that, and she was never able to overcome the absolutely intense blowback that came her way when she started trying to mess with healthcare during Bill's first term.  She started being demonized by Rush from the moment her husband was elected president.  And a lot of that demonization stuck.  Some of it might have been fair, and some of it definitely wasn't.  But enough stuck that she was a terrible candidate, because she never figured out a way to get through those attacks and come out the other side smelling like anything other than shit. 

After the election she did an interview with Howard Stern. If that version of her had been public and available in the years leading up to her run, we'd likely have a President Hillary right now who was dealing with some assholes who didn't want to wear masks, but overall we'd be in a country that has gotten this under control and we'd be mostly getting back to normal by now.  Parents wouldn't be trying to make hard decisions about whether their kids should be in school or not, because the risks would be much much lower.  

And by the way, this isn't me saying she was a good candidate and would've been a good president.  This is me saying she was a terrible candidate and likely would not have been a good president precisely because she was never able to get out from under all the accusations pointed against her from right wing media.  That stuff slid right off of Bill and it all stuck to her.  She never stood a chance unless she could've become more real.  She didn't attempt to do that until after she lost, so she'll never be president.

I noticed kind of the same thing with Bob Dole wrt post election personality.  I saw him on the Tonight Show after he lost and he was funny and engaging and a real hoot.  Nothing like candidate Dole.

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Hiphopopotamos

Hiphopopotamos 20869

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As big a piece as Florida is - Bass statements in 2016 could be a problem:

But Bass‘ comments about the longtime Cuban leader following his death in 2016 — when she respectfully called him “comandante en jefe” (in Spanish, commander in chief) — is politically poisonous in Florida and even more toxic in Miami, home to many exiles from socialist Latin American regimes that include Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/florida-democrats-karen-bass-vp-341931

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SizzleChest

SizzleChest 8283

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10 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

As big a piece as Florida is - Bass statements in 2016 could be a problem:

But Bass‘ comments about the longtime Cuban leader following his death in 2016 — when she respectfully called him “comandante en jefe” (in Spanish, commander in chief) — is politically poisonous in Florida and even more toxic in Miami, home to many exiles from socialist Latin American regimes that include Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/27/florida-democrats-karen-bass-vp-341931

Like most of those people were going to vote for Biden anyway.

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