Joe Biden Veepstakes 2020

[Message Board User 12389]

5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It was sarcasm.  I’m a little disturbed about how we’re expecting a black woman to heal the country and improve race relations when that didn’t exactly work out so well before.  As great as it would be to have a Black women as VP, the reasoning reeks of tokenism and the black women being considered aren’t progressive. You don’t see people like Ayanna Pressley being considered.  

This is about good optics, satiating white guilt, and protecting the status quo once Trump is gone, it’s not that difficult to see through.  Kamala couldn’t even get black voters to support her when she ran for president so this idea she’s some galvanizing force in black leadership is suspect at best.

Sounds like you're in the anger stage of grief now that it's apparent to everyone that Warren isn't getting the VP...

When you start pointing out that M4All isn't really necessary for the country and deep down Warren doesn't support that, we'll know you've moved on to bargaining.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

35 minutes ago, Pancho said:

2.) It’s only tokenism if you believe Harris isn’t qualified. I think we all know she is.  I don’t think I’ve heard anyone say that a Black woman is going to heel the country.  I’m not sure where you’re getting this information from. I’m not sure what you mean by the progressives stance.  I’m not requiring Biden to pick a progressive.  Is there a majority out there that is?  And we already know why Harris didn’t get the Black vote.  That has been stated numerous times. 

The tokenism comes from folks demanding Biden pick a Black woman.  That’s going to be the perception unfortunately even though Kamala is absolutely qualified.  I suppose I’m ranting on the reasons I’m hearing from the whites which is all about optics, white guilt, and no substance.

 It ignores all the progressive activists, many of them Black, that know the road to success is through policy reform and leadership.  The activists are the people putting in the work on the ground and if feels like this campaign is taking a lot of stuff for granted. I expect Biden to pick Kamala but the framing around it feels wrong and an opportunity to expand the coalition with a more progressive candidate is being squandered.  I’m sick of the VP debate b/c it feels like the primary all over again. 
 

I’d be down for drinks in a non-plague time but in NOLA. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[bad_teammate 13125]

Kamala Harris is a bad choice for the same reasons she was a failure as a presidential candidate. She won't make a lick of difference electorally, not a whit. And her being the heir apparent is just a huge middle finger to the police reform movement much less the defund police movement.

Like Biden, completely unsuited to the needs of the moment. Pure dogshit.

The political establishment is telling everyone else to go fuck themselves and all the centrists have is the same dumb jokes about the stages of grief that weren't even funny the first time and the bald-faced acceptance and embrace of the murderous status quo with their "hey anything that isn't Trump is a win!"

Regarding tokenism... OF COURSE she's been made a token. That's the whole fucking point. Biden and Klobuchar made her a token whether or not we want to pretend otherwise.

They aren't calling for a leader who will best promote the solutions to the problems facing Black America, they literally just say "give me someone whose skin is black!"

Dogshit.
 

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

What does "qualified" even mean? Literally every native-born person 35 or older is "qualified".

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The only thing remotely exciting about the Biden campaign is the VP debate and it too is boring AF. 

[Dbeasy 14953]

The tokenism comes from folks demanding Biden pick a Black woman.  That’s going to be the perception unfortunately even though Kamala is absolutely qualified.  I suppose I’m ranting on the reasons I’m hearing from the whites which is all about optics, white guilt, and no substance.
 It ignores all the progressive activists, many of them Black, that know the road to success is through policy reform and leadership.  The activists are the people putting in the work on the ground and if feels like this campaign is taking a lot of stuff for granted. I expect Biden to pick Kamala but the framing around it feels wrong and an opportunity to expand the coalition with a more progressive candidate is being squandered.  I’m sick of the VP debate b/c it feels like the primary all over again. 
 
I’d be down for drinks in a non-plague time but in NOLA. 

Dude you keep saying a progressive is what’s needed, when in reality that could actually make this race closer than in is right now, and maybe even lose it for him. This theory that a progressive will stimulate new left voters more than it will lose moderates has not been proven. He maybe shouldn’t take that chance because picking a more moderate candidate guarantees more votes overall with less risk. With that said Warren probably is the best candidate. I’m just not sure she delivers the most votes.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

7 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Dude you keep saying a progressive is what’s needed, when in reality that could actually make this race closer than in is right now, and maybe even lose it for him. This theory that a progressive will stimulate new left voters more than it will lose moderates has not been proven. He maybe shouldn’t take that chance because picking a more moderate candidate guarantees more votes overall with less risk. With that said Warren probably is the best candidate. I’m just not sure she delivers the most votes.

I think the counter argument is Biden is already a moderate (some would say right Dem) and is the top of the ticket.  If you run too moderate then you alienate progressives.  If you run too left, then you alienate moderates.  It's a balancing act and with Biden already heading the ticket, then a progressive would balance the ticket.  FWIW, Kamala actually scores well on most progressive scorecards, although has a hazy past... Regardless, picking a more moderate candidate certainly doesn't guarantee more votes overall.  I'm not sure there's much evidence to support that idea.  The issue for Warren is her age with some (sort of silly), her ethnicity in today's environment (a very real issue), and she scares the shit out of a lot big money (eye of the beholder).  If Biden wanted a centrist or moderate, he would have chosen Klobacher who is more in line with his historical ideas.

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

8 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Dude you keep saying a progressive is what’s needed, when in reality that could actually make this race closer than in is right now, and maybe even lose it for him.

Fear fear fear.

Quote

This theory that a progressive will stimulate new left voters more than it will lose moderates has not been proven.

And neither has your "in reality" supposition.

Warren finished second in DC's primary despite having withdrawn and endorsed months ago. Sanders was pulling solid 25+% results while not even in the race anymore. Enthusiasm is in the gutter for this dogshit candidate Joe Biden and his voters are voting out of fear instead of hope.

The question we should be asking is whether or not these leaders have the temperament, ideology, and will to solve the problems facing us. Joe Biden has none of them. Kamala Harris has maybe 2 at best.

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

Hey, what if he chose someone who could actually run a competent national campaign?

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Sanders was pulling solid 25+% results while not even in the race anymore.

[staboner 4955]

10 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Kamala Harris is a bad choice for the same reasons she was a failure as a presidential candidate. She won't make a lick of difference electorally, not a whit. And her being the heir apparent is just a huge middle finger to the police reform movement much less the defund police movement.

Like Biden, completely unsuited to the needs of the moment. Pure dogshit.

The political establishment is telling everyone else to go fuck themselves and all the centrists have is the same dumb jokes about the stages of grief that weren't even funny the first time and the bald-faced acceptance and embrace of the murderous status quo with their "hey anything that isn't Trump is a win!"

Regarding tokenism... OF COURSE she's been made a token. That's the whole fucking point. Biden and Klobuchar made her a token whether or not we want to pretend otherwise.

They aren't calling for a leader who will best promote the solutions to the problems facing Black America, they literally just say "give me someone whose skin is black!"

Dogshit.
 

 

man thats painful. wtf people. crime can be violent and your argument against reform is to make sure we talk about that. i don't even know why I bother commenting. that is just awful. not that i expected it to be not awful but damn thats genuinely frightening that this flies for "improved discourse"

[bad_teammate 13125]

The deep-seated loathing that establishment figures have for progressives and activists cannot be understated. Harris's condescension in that clip is not just a fun act, it's inside of her just like it's inside of anyone who has decided it is their job to put people in prison. This goes for Biden's other rumored choice, Val Demings. There's a reason that Biden has reportedly settled on two cops: He views the underclass as a thing to be disciplined and kept in line. This is his response to the defund police movement and it's not accidental.

But the liberals are clapping like trained seals because they are too stupid to keep looking after they see the approved skin color. Because it goes back to what I've been saying for years now: There are no actual values animating their activity (see: henry compiling a spreadsheet average of Sanders primary results while ignoring the actual points of weight and meaning in this important issue).

So when Biden/Harris or Biden/Demings comes into power, which it looks like they will, the liberal establishment will turn on the anti-police movement, and they will turn hard. It will start in the paid-punditry class and the volunteer-pundits on Twitter and here will pick up the flag and the tenor here will change 180 degrees. Street activists will now be secret GOP operatives because they are making the Democratic president look bad which is bad for the 2022 mid-terms. Possibly Russian agents.

(People should remember the progressives eventually being right about Abrams.)

[burntorangebongos 10681]

I don't like cops lovers either so I'm good with someone other than Harris or Demings. I don't think that they'd get through the vetting process any more than Klobachar could. They probably have lots bones in their closets being cop allies too, imo. 

 

[bolverk 29360]

NYTimes put together a little piece on who they think are the major candidates and a little background on each.

Of these, I like Liz the most and she was my preferred candidate for president. Other than her, the one that intrigues me the most is Rice, though I can see why Harris would be considered the front-runner.

Thought I'd share:

Who’s in the Running to Be Joe Biden’s Vice President?

Here are 12 women who are under serious consideration by Mr. Biden, and why each might be chosen — and might not be.

Joseph R. Biden Jr. is deep into his search for a running mate. The process began with a list of more than a dozen potential candidates, all of them women. His team has narrowed that list, conducting multiple interviews and collecting sensitive personal documents from a number of the most important contenders.

Biden, 77, says he wants a running mate who is ready to assume the presidency, who shares his priorities and with whom he is “simpatico.” He is aiming to announce his choice by Aug. 1.

These are the women we know to be under consideration:

Kamala Harris

Bio: Senator from California since 2017; former presidential candidate; served as district attorney in San Francisco and state attorney general.

How seriously is she being considered? Very seriously. Harris, 55, is in an advanced stage of the vetting process and is seen as among the likeliest candidates to be chosen.

Signature issues: Proposed cutting middle-class taxes; recently advocated for policing reform; pushed a Senate bill to make lynching a federal crime; played a high-profile role in the confirmation hearings of Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh.

Relationship with Biden: Harris had a friendly relationship with Biden before they competed in the 2020 primaries, and Harris knew his late son, Beau, when they served as attorneys general. But Harris also attacked Biden more harshly than any other Democrat in the 2020 race, rebuking him in the first televised debate for having worked with segregationist senators to oppose school busing policies in the 1970s.

Pros and cons: Harris is among the best-known black women in American politics, with appeal to both moderates and liberals. But she ran an unsteady presidential campaign last year and struggled with questions about her law-enforcement record. The way she and her advisers handled the 2020 primary left some in the Biden campaign with significant reservations.

On being considered for vice president: “I know that conversation is taking place in the press and among the pundits, and I’m honored to even be considered, if that’s the case.”

Spoiler

 

Elizabeth Warren

Bio: Senator from Massachusetts since 2013; former presidential candidate; former Harvard Law School professor and bankruptcy expert; architect of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

How seriously is she being considered? Very seriously. Warren, 70, is among the strongest contenders and she has reached an advanced stage of the vetting process.

Signature issues: Has long criticized wealth concentration and corporate power; proposed plans to break up big companies, tax the extremely rich and use proceeds to fund new social benefits; recently called for investigations of how the Trump administration has distributed economic stimulus money and pushed a measure to strip the names of Confederate generals from military bases.

Relationship with Biden: Warren and Biden have a relationship of mutual respect, framed by significant ideological differences. When Biden was a senator and Warren a Harvard professor, they clashed in a Senate hearing over bankruptcy regulation. But when Biden was mulling a campaign for president in 2016, he met with Warren privately and considered the idea of asking her to run with him.

Pros and cons: Warren would bring sterling progressive credentials and a forceful economic message to Biden’s ticket. But she does not represent racial or generational diversity, and her populist record could unnerve some moderates.

On being considered for vice president: “I’m focused right now on this crisis.”

Keisha Lance Bottoms

Bio: Mayor of Atlanta since 2018; served two terms on the Atlanta City Council.

How seriously is she being considered? Very seriously. Bottoms, 50, has been interviewed by the Biden team and she has drawn even closer review as her national profile has grown in recent weeks.

Signature issues: Among the most prominent city leaders grappling with the coronavirus pandemic and answering the calls for police reform and racial justice; quickly called for the firing of the officer who fatally shot Rayshard Brooks and then announced new restrictions on the use of force by police; made criminal justice reform a major priority, including strictly limiting the use of cash bail.

Relationship with Biden: Bottoms was an early supporter of Mr. Biden in the presidential race, serving as a fiercely loyal campaign surrogate, even when he was down in the polls.

Pros and cons: Bottoms has cut an impressive figure during a national reckoning over race and policing, and she hails from a crucial political battleground. But her short time in high office could be an obstacle.

On being considered for vice president: “It’s going to be important for Joe Biden to have a strong V.P. who can help him heal our nation and lead our nation, and it’s going to be important to have a person beside him who can help him defeat Donald Trump.”

Val Demings

Bio: Representative from Florida since 2017; served as police chief in Orlando after a long career there as an officer.

How seriously is she being considered? Very seriously. Demings, 63, has been interviewed at length and is being vetted intensively by the Biden team.

Signature issues: Has been an outspoken voice in the House on issues related to gun control and law enforcement; served as an impeachment manager in the Senate trial of President Trump.

Relationship with Biden: Demings and Biden do not have a longstanding relationship, but they campaigned together for Florida Democrats during the 2018 elections.

Pros and cons: Demings is a strong campaigner with a résumé that matches the moment, and she comes from a crucial part of the country’s biggest swing state. But she has not been closely vetted by the press and her experience in elected office is relatively brief.

On being considered for vice president: “I hope, regardless of how it turns out, that when boys and girls and young men and women around this nation hear my personal story and they’ve been told that they can’t make it for whatever reason, that they will be inspired.”

Susan Rice

Bio: National security adviser and ambassador to the United Nations under President Obama.

How seriously is she being considered? Very seriously. Rice, 55, is among the candidates furthest along in the vetting process.

Signature issues: Closely identified with the Obama administration’s foreign policy breakthroughs, including the Iran nuclear deal and the Paris climate agreement; recently called for statehood for Washington, D.C.

Relationship with Biden: Rice served with Biden in the Obama administration for eight years, and their working relationship dates back to the 1990s when Rice was an assistant secretary of state and Biden was on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Pros and cons: Rice’s international experience would leave little doubt that she is ready for the most sensitive parts of the job. But she has never been a candidate before and the learning curve of a national campaign can be a steep one.

On being considered for vice president: “I’m humbled and honored to be among the extremely accomplished women who are reportedly being considered in that regard.”

Michelle Lujan Grisham

Bio: Governor of New Mexico since 2019; served three terms in Congress and was chairwoman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus; former New Mexico secretary of health.

How seriously is she being considered? Pretty seriously. Lujan Grisham, 60, is probably the top candidate among the governors and she has been asked to submit documents for vetting.

Signature issues: Enacted sweeping clean-energy legislation and a minimum wage hike as governor; pushed for major liberal priorities like free public college; now heavily focused on containing the coronavirus outbreak and managing the damage of an economic recession.

Relationship with Biden: Lujan Grisham and Biden do not have a close relationship. He endorsed her candidacy for governor in 2018.

Pros and cons: Lujan Grisham appears to be the only Latina candidate under consideration, with the potential to give Biden a boost across the Southwest. She has a compelling story to tell about leading a state through a national crisis, but she is a lower-profile leader than many of the other candidates in the mix.

On being considered for vice president: “What I hope the Biden campaign continues to do is to look for not just a V.P. pick, but to be really clear in building a cabinet and an agenda for America, that these are folks who can run government.”

Tammy Duckworth

Bio: Senator from Illinois since 2017; served two terms in the House; former director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs; a retired Army lieutenant colonel and helicopter pilot who lost both legs in combat while serving in Iraq.

How seriously is she being considered? Pretty seriously. Duckworth, 52, has been interviewed by the Biden team and she has been asked to submit documents for vetting.

Signature issues: Has been a prominent spokeswoman for her party on national security and the concerns of veterans and military families; championed policies to protect people with disabilities.

Relationship with Biden: Duckworth does not have an especially close relationship with Biden, but as vice president he backed her 2016 candidacy to unseat a Republican senator, Mark Kirk. Duckworth introduced Biden’s late son, Beau, as a speaker at the 2008 Democratic National Convention.

Pros and cons: Duckworth’s personal story could be powerful in a presidential campaign; she would be the first veteran on a national ticket since John McCain, and the first female veteran ever. She is a less prominent voice on some of the issues most central to the campaign, like policing and the economy.

On being considered for vice president: “I personally have always answered the call when my country has asked me to serve.”

Tammy Baldwin

Bio: Senator from Wisconsin since 2013; served seven terms in the House; the first openly gay person to win a seat in the Senate.

How seriously is she being considered? Somewhat seriously. Baldwin, 58, has been interviewed by the Biden team and she is seen as a politically safe choice for the job.

Signature issues: Has championed universal health care for decades and other changes to the health care system; has been an important voice on trade and manufacturing, and a critic of China’s trade practices.

Relationship with Biden: Baldwin and Biden do not have a deep relationship, but she served in the Senate during his second term as vice president and they campaigned together in both the 2012 and 2018 elections, when Baldwin was on the ballot.

Pros and cons: Baldwin would bring populist credentials and local popularity that could help deliver Wisconsin’s crucial Electoral College votes to Biden. But Baldwin is relatively little known nationally and many Democrats might object to an all-white ticket.

On being considered for vice president: “I haven’t ruled it out.”

Gretchen Whitmer

Bio: Governor of Michigan since 2019; former Democratic leader in the Michigan State Senate; delivered the Democratic response to President Trump’s State of the Union address in February.

How seriously is she being considered? Somewhat seriously. Whitmer, 48, has acknowledged she has had contact with the Biden search team, but seems like a less prominent candidate than she was a few months ago.

Signature issues: Ran for governor on a platform of rebuilding Michigan’s broken roads, raising the minimum wage and investing in education; has grappled with the coronavirus pandemic reshaping her administration, putting public health and budgetary challenges at the center of her agenda.

Relationship with Biden: Whitmer has described herself as having been friends with Biden for years, and he endorsed her campaign for governor in 2018. She returned the favor before the Michigan presidential primary in March.

Pros and cons: Whitmer is a popular young leader from an important swing state, who has played a major role in responding to the coronavirus. But she would not bring racial diversity to the ticket and she has faced Republican attacks at home for engaging in national politics.

On being considered for vice president: “I am making a little bit of time to stay connected to the campaign but the most important thing that I have to do right now is be the governor of my home state.”

Stacey Abrams

Bio: Former Democratic leader in the Georgia House of Representatives before narrowly losing a race for governor in 2018; the leader of an advocacy group, Fair Fight Action, focused on voting rights.

How seriously is she being considered? Not too seriously. Some senior Democrats are supportive of Abrams, 46, but she does not seem to be a priority for the Biden team right now.

Signature issues: Has championed voting rights; advocated for expanding health care at the state level during her time in the legislature and worked with then-Gov. Nathan Deal, a Republican, on criminal justice reform.

Relationship with Biden: Abrams and Biden do not have a longstanding relationship, but they met privately last year as Biden was weighing his decision to enter the 2020 race and his advisers were floating the idea of announcing a running mate during the Democratic primaries.

Pros and cons: Abrams is an agile political messenger with a strong national following. But the highest office she has held is state legislator, raising questions about her readiness.

On being considered for vice president: “I would be an excellent running mate. I have the capacity to attract voters by motivating typically ignored communities.”

Gina Raimondo

Bio: Governor of Rhode Island since 2015; served as state treasurer; former venture capital executive; was chair of the Democratic Governors Association in 2019.

How seriously is she being considered? Not too seriously. Raimondo, 49, has had some contact with the Biden team but she does not seem to be as far along in the process as others.

Signature issues: Has made economic development her central cause, frequently pushing her party to adopt a more pointed message on economic opportunity and job creation; overhauled the state’s unstable public pension system, a political victory that yielded lasting bad blood with some labor unions.

Relationship with Biden: Raimondo and Biden are cut from the same ideological cloth, and Biden has campaigned for her in the past. But Raimondo endorsed a different moderate in the Democratic primaries: Michael R. Bloomberg.

Pros and cons: Raimondo may be more closely aligned with Biden in her political sensibilities than anyone else in the running. But she is viewed with distrust by the left and some important Democratic labor unions, and she is relatively untested as a national figure.

On being considered for vice president: “Let me just say this. I’m spending zero time on politics right now.”

Maggie Hassan

Bio: Senator from New Hampshire since 2017; served as governor there from 2013 to 2017 and was previously the Democratic leader in the New Hampshire State Senate.

How seriously is she being considered? Not too seriously. Hassan, 62, agreed to be vetted by the Biden team but it is not clear that her candidacy has moved much past that point.

Signature issues: Has focused on health care and drug addiction; as governor, expanded Medicaid at the state level, and in the Senate, sponsored large-scale legislation addressing the opioid crisis.

Relationship with Biden: Like most top Democrats in the crucial primary state of New Hampshire, Hassan has known Biden for some time. They are not especially close but he consistently praised her during visits to the state last year.

Pros and cons: Hassan has strong credentials as a governor and senator from a state Hillary Clinton barely won in 2016. But she is barely known outside New Hampshire. If she were elected vice president, a Republican governor would name her replacement.

On being considered for vice president: “I am not going to comment about his process, whatever that may be. My focus each and every day continues to be serving the people of NH in the US Senate.”

WITHDREW

Amy Klobuchar

The Minnesota senator announced on June 18 that she had withdrawn from the search process, after renewed scrutiny of her record as a prosecutor greatly diminished her chances.

When protests swept her home state after the killing of George Floyd, Klobuchar found herself struggling to explain why she had not done more to take on police misconduct as district attorney. Pulling out of the V.P. search, Klobuchar said she urged Biden in a phone call to choose a woman of color for the ticket.

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

Warren was my presidential choice, but not my VP choice.  I think she brings pretty close to zero votes.  Maybe some 25 year old recent college grad women excited about representation.  Liz's draw, in my opinion, is that she presents professorial.  But the sort of people that that attracts are already voting for Biden.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

(Sigh)

Edited June 22, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

More polling data among college students:

https://download-files.wix.com/_api/download/file?downloadToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOmU2NjYzMGU3MTRmMDQ5MGFhZWExZjE0OWIzYjY5ZTMyIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDplNjY2MzBlNzE0ZjA0OTBhYWVhMWYxNDliM2I2OWUzMiIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sImlhdCI6MTU5MjkyMDkzNSwiZXhwIjoxNTkyOTU2OTQ1LCJqdGkiOiJmYTRiMDViMWNjNzciLCJwYXlsb2FkIjp7InBhdGgiOiIvdWdkL2IyZWU4NF9mN2FhNzQ0NjBlODk0NGU3OGY1NDIxMjYwNTA5OTUwZC5wZGYiLCJhdHRhY2htZW50Ijp7ImZpbGVuYW1lIjoiQXhpb3M6Q29sbGVnZSBSZWFjdGlvbiAtIHBvbGl0aWNzLnBkZiJ9fX0.Sm87ezbzDlINHr0woZcFCn5YdR5D26UddtYfw1dTXfE
 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Here's a piece on sort of where are and distills in it in a way which I think is correct.  Warren or a black VP, which is really the choice.

 

[tantric superman 4667]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:40 AM, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Warren was my presidential choice, but not my VP choice.  I think she brings pretty close to zero votes.  Maybe some 25 year old recent college grad women excited about representation.  Liz's draw, in my opinion, is that she presents professorial.  But the sort of people that that attracts are already voting for Biden.

Agree.  Although I think she actually is a net minus.  Although I trust the polls more than I do my shitty instinct.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I am not as excited about a Warren VP as you might think b/c she will have to defend every dumb and swampy thing Biden does for four years.  However, she’s best suited to help Biden in this election because she adds substance to a one dimensional campaign.  Biden’s weakness are on policy/ideology, and enthusiasm.  Adding diversity for the sake of diversity adds very little if you’re not bringing any new comprehensive solutions to the table.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[BradInATX 9208]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Biden’s weakness are on policy/ideology, and enthusiasm.  

 

Hugo, you often struggle to separate reality from your wishes and desires. The man was a senator for almost four decades and the Vice President of the United States for eight years. I think he's quite capable of understanding and impacting policy. And as for ideology, if Joe Biden needed Warren's help with that, he wouldn't have received 3500% more primary votes than she did. The voters made their ideology wishes very clear.

Enthusiasm, maybe. But that's pure speculation.

Edited June 23, 2020 by BradInATX

[tantric superman 4667]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 However, she’s best suited to help Biden in this election because she adds substance to a one dimensional campaign.

My concern is that the voters want a one dimensional, place holder President while everyone catches their breath and decides where they want to go.  It's possible the voters who turn the tide and help elect Biden really only want someone in the office who is not a total asshole.  That's it.  That is all they are voting on.

If you told me we had two doors to pick:

1) Biden elected but literally no substantial changes in laws until 2024.  Executive and  Legislative branches act humanly and move forward on some environmental issues, but more or less stay the same.

2) Biden elected  and radical changes based on progressive ideals and revenge against anything reeking of conservatism, good or bad.

I think Dems have a better chance of succeeding on 1 above, and Warren actually allows more scare tactics on 2.   Because she would get shit done.

 

 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5341]

5 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

My concern is that the voters want a one dimensional, place holder President while everyone catches their breath and decides where they want to go.  It's possible the voters who turn the tide and help elect Biden really only want someone in the office who is not a total asshole.  That's it.  That is all they are voting on.

If you told me we had two doors to pick:

1) Biden elected but literally no substantial changes in laws until 2024.  Executive and  Legislative branches act humanly and move forward on some environmental issues, but more or less stay the same.

2) Biden elected  and radical changes based on progressive ideals and revenge against anything reeking of conservatism, good or bad.

I think Dems have a better chance of succeeding on 1 above, and Warren actually allows more scare tactics on 2.   Because she would get shit done.

 

 

Regardless of the VP pick, it's pretty much guaranteed there will be some big policy initiatives if the Dems take the Senate as well. The "New Green Deal", police reform, maybe some healthcare reform, immigration , shit like that. 

I really don't see how the VP has anything to do with what will or won't happen in the House and Senate. Biden will certainly do most (if not all) of what the Dems want either way. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by totallynotabuttpirate

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

2 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

I really don't see how the VP has anything to do with what will or won't happen in the House and Senate. Biden will certainly do most (if not all) of what the Dems want either way. 

you can use the bully pulpit of the executive to get bills going in the leg.  And I can see with an aging president, the VP being named some key [some policy] czar.  a bit thin, but maybe real.  

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

 

can't really parse those numbers. those look significant to me -- not insignificant -- especially the 8.5% margin number for hispanics, given florida and arizona are in play.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Calling it now, Obama introduces Elizabeth Warren as Biden’s VP.  I know I’ve been doubtful but please god make this happen. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

As much as I like Val Demmings, THIS is why I want Kamala Harris. 
Every woman in corporate America has been treated this way in a meeting by a male peer. Most of them are on the regular. 
Mike Pence’s entire political style is built around this kind of disingenuous, gaslighting, concern troll bullshit and Kamala Harris knows exactly what to do with it. 
 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

Styles make fights, Hugo. I wanted Warren to be the president. Hopefully she'll be attorney general or head of CFPB. But she's not the right fighter for this. 

[Pancho 44358]

I want Harris as VP.  

But if it's Warren (who I voted for in the primary), I'm fine with that as well. 

I just do not believe people will sit out or all of a sudden vote for Trump because one of the above won't be picked. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

16 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I want Harris as VP.  

But if it's Warren (who I voted for in the primary), I'm fine with that as well. 

I just do not believe people will sit out or all of a sudden vote for Trump because one of the above won't be picked. 

trump's advantage is motivating morons through mockery.  warren allows more mockery than harris, imo.

 

it's funny because this election we should probably care about a VP ready to step in as president more than any previous because joe is on death's door.  but I don't find myself thinking about that much.  it is a singular focus: what gets the dotard out. whatever happens after that doesn't even register with me.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

There sure seems to be a concerted anti-Warren effort.  You know, the best performing woman in the primary that brings in all the money and has the broadest ideological appeal. 

Can’t put my finger on it, there’s just something about her!

[Pancho 44358]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There sure seems to be a concerted anti-Warren effort.  You know, the best performing woman in the primary that brings in all the money and has the broadest ideological appeal. 

Can’t put my finger on it, there’s just something about her!

 

I am not seeing this effort.  The only thing I saw coming close to this was Klo's interview.  But no, I'm not seeing an "anti-Warren" effort in media or on social media when it comes to the VP slot. 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There sure seems to be a concerted anti-Warren effort.  You know, the best performing woman in the primary that brings in all the money and has the broadest ideological appeal. 

Can’t put my finger on it, there’s just something about her!

Define "best performing?" Because, you know, the polls say she's I dunno like 4th. 5th. You know, something other than most metrics for "The Best."

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There sure seems to be a concerted anti-Warren effort.  You know, the best performing woman in the primary that brings in all the money and has the broadest ideological appeal. 

Can’t put my finger on it, there’s just something about her!

i think you're taking this a little personally.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

I am not seeing this effort.  The only thing I saw coming close to this was Klo's interview.  But no, I'm not seeing an "anti-Warren" effort in media or on social media when it comes to the VP slot. 

Yea.  I see a concerted effort to get a woman of color selected for the spot and maybe some of that comes across as critical to others, but I don't see much of an "anti Warren" effort.  You can have one thing and not the other.

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Define "best performing?" Because, you know, the polls say she's I dunno like 4th. 5th. You know, something other than most metrics for "The Best."

She's currently 3rd in the Presidential primary.  I'm going to assume that's what he's talking about.  I don't see 3-4 women even in the conversation to be above her.

[406W30th 1111]

Hope this speculation is correct, and that Joe listens to Obama.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

3 hours ago, Pancho said:

I want Harris as VP.  

But if it's Warren (who I voted for in the primary), I'm fine with that as well. 

I just do not believe people will sit out or all of a sudden vote for Trump because one of the above won't be picked. 

Sure, I want to see Mike Pence humiliated because he's a low-integrity sellout and deserves it., but I don't think that the choice moves more than 1-2% of voters in this cycle if at all. That being said, two things are true in my opinion. 
1)  The spectacle of Mike Pence being talked down to by a powerful black woman could be demoralizing to the base and dampen energy. 
2)  It could also permanently damage him to the point of of being DOA in 2024, as he should be. 

2 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

trump's advantage is motivating morons through mockery.  warren allows more mockery than harris, imo.

Good take

Edited June 24, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Snake Diggity 4614]

Hard to believe blacks won’t turn out for Biden/Warren as much as they would for Biden/POC if Obama enthusiastically endorses Warren.  Ideally, Obama announces Warren as the pick, followed by video clips of each of the other VP candidates praising her as the right choice.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

On 6/23/2020 at 6:18 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Calling it now, Obama introduces Elizabeth Warren as Biden’s VP.  I know I’ve been doubtful but please god make this happen. 

 

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Hard to believe blacks won’t turn out for Biden/Warren as much as they would for Biden/POC if Obama enthusiastically endorses Warren.  Ideally, Obama announces Warren as the pick, followed by video clips of each of the other VP candidates praising her as the right choice.

 

LMAO. Where are y'all hearing this nonsense? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

That’s how it would go down, if it was to go down.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

LMAO. Where are y'all hearing this nonsense? 

rule 1 for constructing your image as a strong leader: always hide behind your big brother.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

This is an Obama vs Trump election.  At least that’s what both sides seem to want.  

Edited June 25, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s how it would go down, if it was to go down.

Why would a former POTUS and current private citizen announce the VP selection? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Why would a former POTUS and current private citizen announce the VP selection? 

For political gain? Optics?  The appearance of a united front with the leaders of the Democratic Party?  Obama, Biden, and Warren together is good shit.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

more polling out today for battleground states:

http://filesforprogress.org/datasets/2020/6/vp/Civiqs_DataforProgress_VP_battleground_banner_book_2020_06.pdf

This report contains the results of a Civiqs survey of 510 registered Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents aged 18-34 in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin from June 18-22, 2020. The survey includes an oversample of 122 Black/African-American respondents and 224 other non-Black respondents of color. The survey was conducted online, among selected members of the Civiqs research panel. Sampled individuals were emailed by Civiqs and responded using a personalized link to the survey at civiqs.com.
Respondents were asked an initial screening question: "Do you think of yourself as a: Democrat, Independent, Republican, Other or none?" and are screened out if they responded "Republican".
The survey results are weighted by race, gender, education, and party identification to be representative of the population of Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents age 18-34 in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin. The general design effect due to weighting, accounting for the oversamples, is 2.01. The survey has a margin of error of ±6.2% at the 95% confidence level, accounting for the design effect. All survey results in this report are reported as percentages.

 

Those numbers among independents.. 

 

I feel like I’m talking to science deniers every time I post polling data that says the same shit over and over again only to get dismissed as not important. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[washparkhorn 9931]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:33 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

There sure seems to be a concerted anti-Warren effort.  You know, the best performing woman in the primary that brings in all the money and has the broadest ideological appeal. 

Can’t put my finger on it, there’s just something about her!

I won't gaslamp you and make you feel like you are crazy. There IS an anti-Warren bias out there in a small, but vocal, group of progressive voters. I haven't seen any sense that is organized. If she is picked by Biden, that small group will not criticize her and will continue to support Biden.

We have a chance for a landslide in federal elections. Real change that improves the lives of all in the United States is possible. Warren is not a reliable progressive to that a small group for many reasons, but notably her stands in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, which is now ancient history to me. 

 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

51 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

For political gain? Optics?  The appearance of a united front with the leaders of the Democratic Party?  Obama, Biden, and Warren together is good shit.  

Literally the only argument I can think of for "Obama announcing Warren as Joe's VP" is having a Black ex-POTUS announcing a white VP to "soften the blow" or something to people that would be upset by the lack of racial diversity on the ticket. Which is stupid. And offensive.

Joe will announce his VP. He will own the selection whether it's Warren or someone else. This is basic politics. 

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

48 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I won't gaslamp you and make you feel like you are crazy. There IS an anti-Warren bias out there in a small, but vocal, group of progressive voters. I haven't seen any sense that is organized. If she is picked by Biden, that small group will not criticize her and will continue to support Biden.

i don't spend much time on twitter, but when i have, i've seen more anti-kamala crap from the left than anti-warren crap (though i know a small group of progressives has been especially critical of warren).

i think all of the "it's completely obvious that warren is the superior selection" attitude is prompting the bias here.  i don't think either one is the obvious pick, and i'd feel confident with either heading into nov.