The future of the Progressive Left

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

A Never-Trumper Neocon - the new Democratic Party base. 

bernie fans - bernie has done a great job pulling the party left and mainstreaming policy ideas that were once aspirational pipe-dreams.

also bernie fans - the new democratic party base is comprised of never-trumper neocons.

[TwiceHorn 31435]

37 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

I think the biggest omission in the article was the historical context of 2016 v. 2020. 

2016 was the year to "take a flyer" on a wildcard like Bernie or Trump. The economy was humming, Obama was running an honest executive branch, and there weren't any disasters or major scale wars going on. A "Revolution"? Sure, why not?!

After 4 years of Trump I think the dominant attitude among average Joe democrats is to play this shit as safely as possible. How else does Biden win just coasting along on his name and Obama-era nostalgia. 

Yep.  It didn't really seem like it, but in retrospect, Obama and events had us on a pretty even keel economically and most other ways.  Many of our problems were perceived, theoretical, or aspirational.

And that persisted through most of the Trump administration, despite his best efforts.  Until now.

[Bama Chick 28596]

If they’re getting their asses kicked in Oregon, maybe it’s time for a regroup.

[washparkhorn 9939]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

also bernie fans - the new democratic party base is comprised of never-trumper neocons.

I understand your view, but Neocons were originally Scoop Jackson Democrats. They are coming home to roost. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

5 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

If they’re getting their asses kicked in Oregon, maybe it’s time for a regroup.

 

You will fit in nicely with David Frum and Bill Kristol.

But seriously, many progressives have become extremely disenchanted with the political process. That’s not a good development for November.

But I am sure the marriage of resistors and never trumpers foretells of a plan outside of making money off of people’s misery. Right? Maybe another impeachment vote?

[Grandioso 2592]

Maybe I'm too doom and gloom but it's almost like ideology itself is a luxury we can barely afford right now. 93,000 people have died not as a result of conservatism or liberalism but through incompetence. We basically need bureaucrats and nonpartisan policy nerds to come in and fix shit ASAFP. In the short term we need any reasonable adult to get sworn in, STFU, and handle all the mundane shit that is 98% of government.

[Biff Tannen 45661]

42 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

But seriously, many progressives have become extremely disenchanted with the political process. That’s not a good development for November.

 

I think the reality is that many progressives, of which I consider myself one and am including myself in the following, did not truly understand how politics in this broken ass system work. 
 

You can’t just will shit into existence no matter how correct the ultimate goal may be. I think it was Brisket that made the analogy of America being like a big ship. It doesn’t respond well to huge changes in direction. It takes a lot of nudges. 
 

Especially now when 35% of voters are in a cult.  You can’t just will them out of reality, as much as I would love to. Baby fucking steps back to normalcy. Then work on changing normalcy to truly progressive ideals. 

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think the reality is that many progressives, of which I consider myself one and am including myself in the following, did not truly understand how politics in this broken ass system work. 
 

You can’t just will shit into existence no matter how correct the ultimate goal may be. I think it was Brisket that made the analogy of America being like a big ship. It doesn’t respond well to huge changes in direction. It takes a lot of nudges. 
 

Especially now when 35% of voters are in a cult.  You can’t just will them out of reality, as much as I would love to. Baby fucking steps back to normalcy. Then work on changing normalcy to truly progressive ideals. 

I understand the sentiment and it appears to be what we have settled on as a society that we can't do big things anymore (despite the fact we just bailed out the banks, billionaires and big business for trillions of dollars). 

I posit that narrative of low expectations has been sold to the American public and it is not based in fact. But that is tilting at windmills at this point (and my Sancho Panza lightheartedness about it is missing). Cheers. 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

41 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I understand the sentiment and it appears to be what we have settled on as a society that we can't do big things anymore (despite the fact we just bailed out the banks, billionaires and big business for trillions of dollars). 

I posit that narrative of low expectations has been sold to the American public and it is not based in fact. But that is tilting at windmills at this point (and my Sancho Panza lightheartedness about it is missing). Cheers. 

I still think that we can do big things. We are a patient in the ER. We need a heart transplant and multiple other procedures in order to live a long life. But right now, we need treatment for the gunshot wound to our head. 

Democrats are seeing the present situation as a crisis that must be dealt with before moving on and thinking about other things. Once trump is out of office, liberals will be more willing to entertain progressive ideas.

[gmr548 16576]

7 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

A Never-Trumper Neocon - the new Democratic Party base. 

 

7 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

When you see the number of "Democrats" posting David Frum excrement as we do now, the Democratic Party has indeed moved further right since 2016. 

Eh. It's an alliance for one cycle, for one purpose. Those voters will migrate back to the GOP over the next few cycles a the stain of Trump is whitewashed. The party platform hasn't moved much. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, it's nothing more than that.

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yep.  It didn't really seem like it, but in retrospect, Obama and events had us on a pretty even keel economically and most other ways.  Many of our problems were perceived, theoretical, or aspirational.

And that persisted through most of the Trump administration, despite his best efforts.  Until now.

Wealth inequality is a big driver of populism on the left and the right, and it was absolutely a real and significant issue under Obama. He did not do much to address those structural issues. Then you had the tech industry explode and bring insane wealth to a short list of major cities while essentially leaving the rest of the country in the dust. That wasn't Obama's doing, but it mixed the economic divide with the cultural and really laid the groundwork for a 2016 type backlash.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

We clearly made a mistake in teaming up with Stalin to defeat the Nazis. 
 

/troll

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

17 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

A Never-Trumper Neocon - the new Democratic Party base. 

I roll my eyes at the love these Republicans get for talking shit about Trump and their willingness to support a Dem candidate this cycle. But leftists would be doing the same damn thing if there were lots of Never Trumper voices that were pro-Bernie. "See, Bernie can reach across all aisles! He's electable!"

Former centrist/establishment/neolib Peter Daou took the Bernie pill and he's become a favorite of the left.

It's basically a political Twitter grift and most people fall for it. 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13185]

He sucks.

[elfenix 34221]

ITT: a bunch of overeducated wypipo navel gazing

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Former centrist/establishment/neolib Peter Daou took the Bernie pill and he's become a favorite of the left.

 

Lol no he’s not. 
 

5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's basically a political Twitter grift and most people fall for it. 

Correct. 

[bad_teammate 13185]

Neo-cons like Rubin/Chait/Frum aligning with centrists is boring because those are their ideological allies in most senses. And it's definitely worth pointing out because it shows that a lot of natural center/center-rights (like you find here) will go straight back to their roots given the slightest prompting (i.e., the threat of people to their left getting uppity/gaining power).

Neo-cons like Rubin/Chait/Frum aligning with the progressive left actually WOULD be interesting because they would be aligning with their natural enemies.

There are reasons you see one happening constantly and the other almost never; it's not a random coin flip.

 

[gmr548 16576]

And it's definitely worth pointing out because it shows that a lot of natural center/center-rights (like you find here) will go straight back to their roots given the slightest prompting (i.e., the threat of people to their left getting uppity/gaining power).

If Democrats do gain control of the federal government in 2020, I fully expect this population to make a significant swing back towards the GOP once the prospects of higher tax rates on high earners, Obama-era regulatory policy, etc. are on the table, let alone debating policies like M4A or the GND.

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

Former Bernie staffers sniping at each other on Twitter tonight. Yikes. 

 

[hpslugga 4058]

On 5/21/2020 at 9:40 AM, bad_teammate said:

He sucks.
 

Two juveniles running against each other in a presidential election.

[bad_teammate 13185]

He isn't even running and getting more votes than the centrists would have if they'd kept their campaigns alive.

As much as it pains a lot of you to hear, the progressive left is going to be fine.

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

The failure of left-wing candidates in their primaries has prompted soul-searching among many progressive leaders who now believe that they neglected the task of organizing and building a downballot bench as they were caught up in the thrall of Sanders’ candidacy. It is also a victory for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who recruited most of the primary victors, viewing them as more likely to win general elections.

“We have seen that the left doesn’t really have the coordinated infrastructure to compete on a statewide level,” acknowledged Evan Weber, the co-founder and political director of the climate group Sunrise Movement, which is backing underdog candidates in Senate primaries this month in Kentucky and Colorado.

[bad_teammate 13185]

A insurgent movement opposed by every lever of power isn't already winning!?!?
WHAT!?

[Biff Tannen 45661]

On 6/8/2020 at 1:45 PM, bad_teammate said:

A insurgent movement opposed by every lever of power isn't already winning!?!?
WHAT!?

Took you off ignore to see what this post was.  Perhaps it would be more accurate as follows:

 

A insurgent movement opposed by every lever of power the majority of Dem voters isn't already winning!?!?
WHAT!?

[bad_teammate 13185]

Imagine being such a horrific shitlib that right now you still entertaining yourself by trolling to your left.

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

Shocking and terrible news, Michael Brooks passed away. Way too young. RIP. 

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

Wow, sudden medical issue. This is hard to comprehend. RIP to a real one.

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

I don't want to post it, but there's a YouTube video of today's Majority broadcast where Sam Seder gets the news about Brooks' death off camera. He looked completely shocked and ended the show right then and there. Devastating. 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Hank Kingsley

[Bruh Man 3160]

Fucking Rush Limbaugh outlived Michael Brooks...I swear this world is not sitting right with me right now. I have a few friends who knew him on a personal level that he provided mentorship to and/or interacted with him at one of his live shows. Everybody swears by him and how much of a genuinely good dude he was. I loved his commentary. A great mix of insight, curiosity and humor. I'll miss his Obama NOI impersonations. 

 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

[bad_teammate 13185]

Left: "Biden is going to govern like a socially moderate Republican."

Liberals: "How fucking dare you say he's going to govern like a socially moderate Republican!"

Biden: "I'm going to govern like a socially moderate Republican."

 

[Biff Tannen 45661]

That sucks. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Left: "Biden is going to govern like a socially moderate Republican."

Liberals: "How fucking dare you say he's going to govern like a socially moderate Republican!"

Biden: "I'm going to govern like a socially moderate Republican."

 

 

Liberals:  "You crazy radicals need to understand change happens incrementally. You can't just change the system all at once."

Lefties: "OK, how about just 10% of the already incredibly hyper-inflated military budget?"

Liberals: "No."

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Shocking to discover Biden is exactly who we thought he was. The sucking up to corporate America still hurts tho... 

[Gatorubet 30183]

[/url]  
 

You bring that bill AFTER an election, not before one. Fucking “Duh!”

[hpslugga 4058]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:13 PM, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

Liberals:  "You crazy radicals need to understand change happens incrementally. You can't just change the system all at once."

Lefties: "OK, how about just 10% of the already incredibly hyper-inflated military budget?"

Liberals: "No."

 

Liberals are fucking insane. They're the guy who's riding shotgun in a corvette that's traveling top speed towards a cliff that goes thousands of feet down, and when the driver realizes he has to slam on the brakes and turn the fucking car sharply to avoid an inevitable catastrophe, he says to the driver "don't stop that hard and don't turn that much!!! MODERATION FOR MODERATION'S SAKE!!!"

[hpslugga 4058]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:48 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Yep.  It didn't really seem like it, but in retrospect, Obama and events had us on a pretty even keel economically and most other ways.  Many of our problems were perceived, theoretical, or aspirational.

And that persisted through most of the Trump administration, despite his best efforts.  Until now.

I mean there were still a lot of problems economically with a great number of Americans under Obama, but Trump was the guy who invented additional problems in his own tiny mind and offered insane solutions that exacerbated the symptoms of the actual problems. It's like a heart surgeon who took a bunch of mushrooms and ripped a guy's balls out in a triple bypass operation, and when asked why he did it, he says "his balls were singing Layla, and I hate that shit because the very sound of it summons aliens to my fortress in Guatemala!"

[henrygandorf 29189]

so many metaphors for a friday morning. 

[gmr548 16576]

 

Should I ever live in any of their districts, their opponents just got my primary vote.

[softlynow 1812]

32 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

Liberals are fucking insane. They're the guy who's riding shotgun in a corvette that's traveling top speed towards a cliff that goes thousands of feet down, and when the driver realizes he has to slam on the brakes and turn the fucking car sharply to avoid an inevitable catastrophe, he says to the driver "don't stop that hard and don't turn that much!!! MODERATION FOR MODERATION'S SAKE!!!"

How does the funding reduction vote, which has no chance at becoming law, tied around the necks of members running every two years in purple or light blue districts help to actually achieve any progressive goal. 

I take no issue with your overall point, but this doesn’t really support it. The next time Trump isn’t on the ballot you can bet Lincoln Project types will attack vulnerable reps for being “reckless with American lives,” “hating the troops,” and so on, and it would work. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

"BLUE NO MATTER WHO!"

Edited July 28, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[Incredulity 11644]

The “bowl of shit” just got a little fuller.

 

So, I guess that means BT is out.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Not sure how I feel about this yet, but interesting to watch.

[Fozzz 152]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:48 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Yep.  It didn't really seem like it, but in retrospect, Obama and events had us on a pretty even keel economically and most other ways.  Many of our problems were perceived, theoretical, or aspirational.

And that persisted through most of the Trump administration, despite his best efforts.  Until now.

Obama presided over worst recovery in postwar American history.  Over 90% of the new jobs created during his Presidency were temporary, part-time, or gig work.  One million fewer Americans were working at the end of his Presidency than before the beginning of the recession.  He and his Citigroup butt buddies did an absolutely horrendous job of handling the recession, and he owns what happened in November 2016.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by Fozzz

[Rougarou 594]

7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Obama presided over worst recovery in postwar American history.  Over 90% of the new jobs created during his Presidency were temporary, part-time, or gig work.  One million fewer Americans were working at the end of his Presidency than before the beginning of the recession.  He and his Citigroup butt buddies did an absolutely horrendous job of handling the recession, and he owns what happened in November 2016.  

How does he own what happened because DNC wanted Hillary?

[Mdhorn 5945]

On 7/24/2020 at 11:24 AM, hpslugga said:

Liberals are fucking insane. They're the guy who's riding shotgun in a corvette that's traveling top speed towards a cliff that goes thousands of feet down, and when the driver realizes he has to slam on the brakes and turn the fucking car sharply to avoid an inevitable catastrophe, he says to the driver "don't stop that hard and don't turn that much!!! MODERATION FOR MODERATION'S SAKE!!!"

While Republicans just run full bore towards the cliff thinking the rich can jettison from the soon to be exploding car.  Saving the car and it's riders isn't moderation for moderation's sake.  It's about not crashing the car.  And why is affordable education and healthcare radical or moderation for moderation's sake?  Blanket statements are useless.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Hank Kingsley 20903]

3 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

 

Not sure how I feel about this yet, but interesting to watch.

 

It's been fascinating to see how easily Twitter Grifter Ryan Knight has infiltrated the Bernie Left. 

[hpslugga 4058]

29 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

While Republicans just run full bore towards the cliff thinking the rich can jettison from the soon to be exploding car.  Saving the car and it's riders isn't moderation for moderation's sake.  It's about not crashing the car.  And why is affordable education and healthcare radical or moderation for moderation's sake?  Blanket statements are useless.

What liberals are in favor of those things?

[kopp0e 1135]

Hmm...