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The future of the Progressive Left

Hank Kingsley

By Hank Kingsley
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Dore and Brie and Halps, Dao, e.t.c. really just helped to illuminate the kabuki theater that is American politics.

The "lesser" of two evils is still technically evil.  Go figure.

All the reason I'm giving up on even paying attention to politics much anymore.  You have no impact and if your vote mattered they wouldn't let you do it.

Nothing changes until a real general strike, and/or a real revolt.  You can't win the revolt, you could possibly have an impact on them financially with a strike.  Until the billionaires are hurt, there's no reason to pretend either red or blue gives a fuck about you.

In 10 years I wonder how high AOC's net worth will be?  The system is corruption.

You’re either organizing to create change or you’re not.  The power in this country prefers you not.  It’s been this way for hundreds of years. 

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Larry T. Spider
Larry T. Spider

The ability to coalition build is what’s needed. Many of the progressive left are idealists to the point that they alienate even those that are left of center. If there has been no other lesson learne

Biff Tannen
Biff Tannen

In before b_t destroys this thread.

Chuckie Finster
Chuckie Finster

This is really the perfect post to illustrate what everyone is saying.  Performative outrage and purity tests are more important than actually getting shit done. Instead of recognizing the benefi

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13496

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No stakes? Does progressive activism end after a presidential general election? I know you don't believe that, so that's kind of a weird reaction.

Not every battle is as important as every other. They each have their own stakes/purpose.

I might be dead wrong here, but the particular battle that Dore (et al) are talking about is one that literally cannot be won. I know the popular consensus here was either that a Sanders presidency was not possible or that the enactment of his vision was impossible, but those things were only ever "unlikely" ("impossible" used incorrectly for color/emphasis/insult). Again, I might be wrong, but the impression I get from the little bit of this garbage I've allowed inside my already-rotten brain is that Dore (et al) want full troop commitment for a battle that is literally impossible to win.

From a guy with zero to lose, no skin in the game, and zero history of doing anything or making anything. A clown with no past or future in improving the world or fighting for anything. A loud, barking person obsessed with getting attention.

The Sanders 2016/2020 campaigns were important. They mattered. They were a REAL threat to the entrenched powers because those campaigns had proposals and plans. Where was this idiot?

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 21752

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2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Not every battle is as important as every other. They each have their own stakes/purpose.

I might be dead wrong here, but the particular battle that Dore (et al) are talking about is one that literally cannot be won. I know the popular consensus here was either that a Sanders presidency was not possible or that the enactment of his vision was impossible, but those things were only ever "unlikely" ("impossible" used incorrectly for color/emphasis/insult). Again, I might be wrong, but the impression I get from the little bit of this garbage I've allowed inside my already-rotten brain is that Dore (et al) want full troop commitment for a battle that is literally impossible to win.

From a guy with zero to lose, no skin in the game, and zero history of doing anything or making anything. A clown with no past or future in improving the world or fighting for anything. A loud, barking person obsessed with getting attention.

The Sanders 2016/2020 campaigns were important. They mattered. They were a REAL threat to the entrenched powers because those campaigns had proposals and plans. Where was this idiot?

You're exactly right about Dore. That's why I'm mystified that his bullshit is gaining more traction.  Probably doesn't help that Briahna Joy Gray and others engage with him.

 

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13496

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Well it looks like she's calling herself "BJG" and not making sense. Not being tethered to an actual campaign isn't helping her.

She's arguing now that the "Squad" should pull a a media stunt. She isn't even pretending that there might be an actual legislative result. She just wants a spectacle.

The simple reality that the media won't pay any attention to said stunt doesn't bother her.

Get it together, Brie.

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fakebusiness

fakebusiness 129

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13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is fucking stupid.

No, it isn't. And Biden winning will pacify Dems even more. Saw it happen under Obama (who I voted for). His cabinet & voting record all but confirms this. More wars, corporate welfare, medical bankruptcies, expansion of the survelliance state, race to the bottom trade deals, etc., etc. But you'll look the other way because he'll use his pronouns in his Twitter bio and The Cop will give a few woke lectures.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13496

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8 hours ago, fakebusiness said:

No, it isn't. And Biden winning will pacify Dems even more. Saw it happen under Obama (who I voted for). His cabinet & voting record all but confirms this. More wars, corporate welfare, medical bankruptcies, expansion of the survelliance state, race to the bottom trade deals, etc., etc. But you'll look the other way because he'll use his pronouns in his Twitter bio and The Cop will give a few woke lectures.

This isn't what we're talking about.

Dore is on the warpath against AOC and the "Squad" because they didn't want to push for an M4A in the house RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT THIS INSTANT!

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29578

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Maybe I'm wrong and he's not actually an idiot. Maybe Dore is intentionally deceiving his audience regarding the immense amount of time and work it takes to effect meaningful political change. If that's the case, it means he's interested in personal profit, not political change, and that his goal is to disengage the left from politics so they cannot enact progressive policies, giving him a bigger audience of depressed leftists he can sell more misery to.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13496

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Enough about the idiot Dore and rudderless Brie...

Krystal Ball on Twitter: "Bernie Sanders helped give Dems this victory by his absolute insistence on direct stimulus checks. Not that the media will ever mention it." / Twitter

$2k stimulus was HUGELY popular among Georgia voters. Biden even swooped in to promise it at the end.

Who made a "media event" out of clamoring for it recently?

190913-bernie-sanders-se-441p_52c685152b6ea673826279e1237ace84.fit-560w.jpg (560×374) (s-nbcnews.com)

(OK I can't embed anything anymore cool)

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fakebusiness

fakebusiness 129

Posted
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3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

This isn't what we're talking about.

Dore is on the warpath against AOC and the "Squad" because they didn't want to push for an M4A in the house RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT THIS INSTANT!

AOC campaigned on it. Now Dore is using her strategy of making congressman and women 'uncomfortable' to get shit done.  

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fakebusiness

fakebusiness 129

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3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Maybe I'm wrong and he's not actually an idiot. Maybe Dore is intentionally deceiving his audience regarding the immense amount of time and work it takes to effect meaningful political change. If that's the case, it means he's interested in personal profit, not political change, and that his goal is to disengage the left from politics so they cannot enact progressive policies, giving him a bigger audience of depressed leftists he can sell more misery to.

Nah, he just wants healthcare and for the people with healthcare to stopping telling the people without healthcare to wait or go bankrupt. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29578

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2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Enough about the idiot Dore and rudderless Brie...

Krystal Ball on Twitter: "Bernie Sanders helped give Dems this victory by his absolute insistence on direct stimulus checks. Not that the media will ever mention it." / Twitter

$2k stimulus was HUGELY popular among Georgia voters. Biden even swooped in to promise it at the end.

Who made a "media event" out of clamoring for it recently?

190913-bernie-sanders-se-441p_52c685152b6ea673826279e1237ace84.fit-560w.jpg (560×374) (s-nbcnews.com)

(OK I can't embed anything anymore cool)

Yeah, Bernie helped. His contribution might have been vital. So were those of Abrams, Ossoff, Warnock, and thousands of people whose names we'll never know who volunteered and helped organize. Same for the collective millions of hours of work put in by leftists who have organized and worked over the past five years to push progressive ideas and candidates. 

Progressive politics is incredibly fucking hard and anyone who pretends that dumb fucking tv stunts are all that are needed is no ally.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13496

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42 minutes ago, fakebusiness said:

For starters having a M4A vote which AOC literally campaigned on.

So force a vote right now that we haven't done the groundwork for in a showy grandstand which would accomplish... what? What would happen?

Even Brie admits that it's nothing more than a media stunt.

So we force a vote on a matter without doing any work on it, lose, then... what? What comes after the "starter"?

I'll answer the question for you. What comes after is lobbying/pressure efforts aimed at the Congresspeople who are on the fence. What comes after is trying to secure the votes of the Congressional members before the vote happens and figure out who is against it and needs to be primaried. So what you'll end up doing with some angry, showy grandstand is get "No" votes that could have been "Yes" votes through a more rigorous and patient process.

Jimmy Dore can scream all he wants from his $2M home in Studio City, but him getting upset doesn't make him more credible a proponent of M4A than the Congresspeople who ran on it, campaign for it, believe in it, and are actively working for it.

Talk to YOUR Congressman about it. Talk to on the fence Congresspeople about it. If you honestly believe that AOC and Bernie and the rest wouldn't be ecstatic to bring M4A up as a vote that will win you're just an idiot.

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fakebusiness

fakebusiness 129

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3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

So force a vote right now that we haven't done the groundwork for in a showy grandstand which would accomplish... what? What would happen?

Even Brie admits that it's nothing more than a media stunt.

So we force a vote on a matter without doing any work on it, lose, then... what? What comes after the "starter"?

I'll answer the question for you. What comes after is lobbying/pressure efforts aimed at the Congresspeople who are on the fence. What comes after is trying to secure the votes of the Congressional members before the vote happens and figure out who is against it and needs to be primaried. So what you'll end up doing with some angry, showy grandstand is get "No" votes that could have been "Yes" votes through a more rigorous and patient process.

Jimmy Dore can scream all he wants from his $2M home in Studio City, but him getting upset doesn't make him more credible a proponent of M4A than the Congresspeople who ran on it, campaign for it, believe in it, and are actively working for it.

Talk to YOUR Congressman about it. Talk to on the fence Congresspeople about it. If you honestly believe that AOC and Bernie and the rest wouldn't be ecstatic to bring M4A up as a vote that will win you're just an idiot.

Yawn. If getting a simple tally of who or who does not support healthcare during a pandemic has you this pressed idk what to say. We've tried your way. It doesn't work. I'm done responding to 'progressives' who say 'now is not the time'. 

And I don't follow Dore that much but:

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13496

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5 minutes ago, fakebusiness said:

Yawn. If getting a simple tally of who or who does not support healthcare during a pandemic has you this pressed idk what to say. We've tried your way. It doesn't work. I'm done responding to 'progressives' who say 'now is not the time'. 

Awesome. We're all just Republicans, great.

What's your next step?

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Grandioso

Grandioso 2592

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On 1/7/2021 at 2:29 PM, wildcat09 said:

Lol, fuck Jimmy:

 

This man is not a fucking leftist.

 

Blaming the 1/6 insurgency on Neoliberalism/Capitalism is as disingenous and retarded as blaming it on BLM.

Yet they are all doing it, again, and again, and again. Jacobin, the Chapo guys, Briahna, Glenn Greenwald, Krystal Ball, etc. 

 

[Man in full military tactical gear waving confederate flag and yelling "hang Mike Pence"]

Dirtbag Left: Now you see, this guy is a victim of crushing capitalism and this is simply how that is being expressed.

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

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26 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

Dirtbag Left: Now you see, this guy is a victim of crushing capitalism and this is simply how that is being expressed.

Respectfully, most of the scumbags were just racist scumbags.

But neoliberal economic policy excesses are, ironically, a trigger for the so-called libertarian right (ironic, since neoliberalism is libertarian capitalism run amok). 

"Dirtbag left" is an offshoot of the slur - "regressive left" - and has been championed by anti-muslim bigots.

I think you were looking for the "bleeding heart liberal" slur.

Alucinantes randoms de tarde (35 fotos)

Just being a good Samaritan.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

Maybe everyone else doesn't have the pathological need to start a new thread for every through that rattles around in your head like you do.  Shut the fuck up. 

Back off thread man.  It’s always been unique to this forum the posters prefer mega threads instead of shorter more targeted topic discussions.  It’s weird as fuck to me because if I want to start a conversation about a topic, the best way to do it is to start a new thread.  The sensitivity to new threads is also weird af.  

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