The Surly Beginner Guitar Thread

[Not that Bob 739]

...unlike most people...like me. Playing guitar is hard. Not so much the actual act of playing, which is difficult enough, but the act of keeping up with it. I used to be okay, then job and marriage and kids and life got in the way. So I put it down. I put it down for years thinking that some day, some day I'd pick it back up. So the kids grew up. The wife didn't want so much of my time. I picked it back up. Dammit!! My fingers won't do what my mind is telling them to do. All that muscle memory, gone. All those song structures, gone. All that hand strength, gone. But I soldiered on. It started coming back. Then my mother got sick and needed lots of care, and my time. Well, she died and I took guitar back up, but damn, no strength. No callouses. Start from the beginning. Then Dad got sick and needed lots of care, and my time, and...

The point of my whining tirade is that guitar must be kept up. You have to play, at least a little, every day. It takes two weeks to get callouses. It takes two days for them to go away. You gotta really want it. Some days I want it. Some days...I'm too busy and lose everything...again. Playing guitar is hard. 

[tbone_ 14142]

It is hard. But, at least for me, it gives me some of the best feelings in the world to play something I really dig.

So, I’d say it’s worth it and good for you.

[G650 14273]

21 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

 You have to play, at least a little, every day.

I can't remember if it was this thread or the main one, but this is what I tell people. A little every day beats a lot in spurts.

 

It is hard. The best thing I've found is to think of what you get out of it more than what you are putting into it.

[nbmishoid 962]

Lessee, from Townes VZ to J.Taylor to Bach, now it’s White Room, Foxy Lady, How Many More Times.  And Distortion.  It’s like I’ve won a prize, not even my birthday.

My Fender 112 does not deliver much distortion, or I haven’t figured out the contour knob.  Is there a great foot box that delivers mucho distortion?  I want to crank up that opening distorted and vibrating E on FL.  Do it for a minute, like Billy Gibbons did when playing it live. 

[Gourmand 7774]

30 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Lessee, from Townes VZ to J.Taylor to Bach, now it’s White Room, Foxy Lady, How Many More Times.  And Distortion.  It’s like I’ve won a prize, not even my birthday.

My Fender 112 does not deliver much distortion, or I haven’t figured out the contour knob.  Is there a great foot box that delivers mucho distortion?  I want to crank up that opening distorted and vibrating E on FL.  Do it for a minute, like Billy Gibbons did when playing it live. 

Boss Blues Driver?

https://www.sweetwater.com/c969--Distortion_Overdrive?highlight=BD2&mrkgadid=&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=1&mrkgcat=drums&percussion&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700073384080210&lid=92700073384080210&ds_s_kwgid=58700008063423979&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=1799483625579&product_id=BD2&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&device=c&network=u&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=1026748&creative=624396267556&targetid=pla-1799483625579&campaignid=18437397786&awsearchcpc=&&&gclid=CjwKCAjw1YCkBhAOEiwA5aN4ASgyjkrDBCitdsI6JIPe5cUE_ToOLYFNfNfoL7IL57ov_g94riZq2xoCaMwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[sidis 9832]

32 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Lessee, from Townes VZ to J.Taylor to Bach, now it’s White Room, Foxy Lady, How Many More Times.  And Distortion.  It’s like I’ve won a prize, not even my birthday.

My Fender 112 does not deliver much distortion, or I haven’t figured out the contour knob.  Is there a great foot box that delivers mucho distortion?  I want to crank up that opening distorted and vibrating E on FL.  Do it for a minute, like Billy Gibbons did when playing it live. 

jimi used a fuzz face for foxy lady.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FuzzFace--dunlop-jdf2-classic-fuzz-face-pedal

despite a few people around here's disdain for electroharmonix, i am a big fan of the new big muffs. 

[nbmishoid 962]

Thanks, guys, they both look great. 

[G650 14273]

What guitar are you playing? Pretty hard to beat a Tubescreamer into a Fender amp.

[nbmishoid 962]

It’s the 91 LP Std  ‘bacco burst you declined to add to your stash.  I will look up tube screamer, thx. 

[G650 14273]

28 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

It’s the 91 LP Std  ‘bacco burst you declined to add to your stash.  I will look up tube screamer, thx. 

 

 

The other go to is an SD-1. They are both mid humped overdrives, but have slightly different peak frequencies. Both are pretty much the most used overdrives in history. TS leans more Strat and Fender amp, SD-1 a little more LP and Marshall. But you can easily try either one out to see which fits better. Both are cheap as well.

[nbmishoid 962]

Sorry, but a question for those who know.   Bought the SD1 as a first step.  Plugged the guitar into it and plugged the box output to the little Crate 10 W amp.  Worked great. 
But, plugged it into the Fender 112 and there started an enormous hum.   The amp is against a wall and behind a couch from the guitar, about 8 ft, and the guitar has its back to the amp.  Anyway, I turn the amp volume to zero and shut off the power switch and it emits this piercing wail at about 80db, for a half second, before shutting off.  I tried both inputs and got that result. Ain’t trying that again, for now.
 

Does someone see something obvious here?  Many thanks in advance. 

[G650 14273]

Is your SD1 plugged in or on battery

[sidis 9832]

Sd1s are notoriously noisy and have a hum. 

but the piercing noise seems like maybe you are feeding it a 12V power supply instead of 9?

[nbmishoid 962]

The SD1 is on battery.  The one it came with, the specs say this is 9v, but I’ll open it up to ensure.  

[G650 14273]

1 hour ago, nbmishoid said:

The SD1 is on battery.  The one it came with, the specs say this is 9v, but I’ll open it up to ensure.  

Hmm. Well that rules out a ground loop. Which channel on the amp are you running? Footswitch plugged in?

[nbmishoid 962]

The 112 has an input for Foot Switch, plus 2 input channels.  Connecting the SD to the foot switch input produced nothing.  A little reading indicates this is where a Fender switch is installed to worked between the clean and distorted (green and red) modes on the amp. I believe I tried both inputs 1 &2 with the same result, I.e big hum then loud wail when shut down, even with amp volume at zero. 
 

What is a ground loop in this type of situation, generally?  Appreciate all the comments.

[G650 14273]

Yeah the foot switch is just for channel switching and possibly turning reverb on and off, it's not an input. I meant are you running the clean channel or the lead channel? Try switching to the other channel and see what happens.

 

Of you had powered the plug off wall power with an ac adapter, you can get what is known as a ground loop. This is where the wiring in a house or building has two different ground potentials, and in simple terms the power follows the path of least resistance. It causes a hum. If you are on battery this won'tbe the issue.

[sidis 9832]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:51 AM, nbmishoid said:

The SD1 is on battery.  The one it came with, the specs say this is 9v, but I’ll open it up to ensure.  

that rules out my theory.  I suppose the only logical explanation one can reach is that your sd-1 pedal or your fender amp or your cables are possessed by satan.  or perhaps your entire house.

good luck.

[nbmishoid 962]

Well, the 112, though lightly used, is 30 yrs old and is a likely candidate to have a flaw. I’ll consider “replacement”, but I don’t need a stage amp, jus high quality play at home thing.  My instructor has a room full of those orange things, a likely direction.  Meanwhile, the little 10 amp fits my needs. 
I appreciate the advice from all.

Edited June 12, 2023 by nbmishoid

[sidis 9832]

8 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, the 112, though lightly used, is 30 yrs old and is a likely candidate to have a flaw. I’ll consider “replacement”, but I don’t need a stage amp, jus high quality play at home thing.  My instructor has a room full of those orange things, a likely direction.  Meanwhile, the little 10 amp fits my needs. 
I appreciate the advice from all.

erroneous approach.

when your amp becomes possessed by satan and requires replacement, you start with an original deluxe reverb, move into an original vintage 59 bassman, and then you pay your wife's divorce attorney a bunch of money.

this is the way.

or just get a very affordable and very solid boss katana amp and enjoy the hell out of playing the guitar, as well as having a lot more money.

[tigol 2399]

I've started taking lessons.

I need a suggestion for a beginner blues/rockabilly song.  I like the style, but I'm stumped.  My teacher suggested starting with a song I'll remember and want to learn.  I'm completely blocked.  Any ideas?

[G650 14273]

Well, do you want blues or do you want rockabilly?

[tigol 2399]

54 minutes ago, G650 said:

Well, do you want blues or do you want rockabilly?

Blues.  Sorry for the confusion.

[G650 14273]

Ha, all good. Do you have any blues tunes you like? Some old school stuff like Smokestack Lightning by Howlin Wolf I'd good for fundamentals. But there's plenty of modern stuff like SRV too. The main thing with the blues is once you have a feel for the progression, learn different turn around and noodle on the blues scale to hear how different scale degrees resolve over the I IV and V. It's something instill do to this day just because it's super natural and cathartic

[tigol 2399]

This will work.  

 

[nbmishoid 962]

Bridge of Sighs:  what a complete joy it is to play.  Will need to learn some recording to stack the parts at the end.  Down the road.  

[nbmishoid 962]

Hey, what are the best of those tiny practice amps?  I started with a little device that goes straight to head phones.   Works great, and has some tone effects:  Fender Mustang Micro 

But, looking for a non headphone option.

 

[tbone_ 14142]

People seem to dig the spark stuff from Positive Grid

[Celery Man 20991]

yeah i'd say spark, katana, or whatever the yamaha thing is - people like all of those options

[topochico 1049]

All of the above, but also the Blackstar ID:core is a pretty awesome amp that gets overlooked. 

[Deej 76882]

Fender Twin Reverb. 

[Gourmand 7774]

 I am pretty comfortable with all the pentatonic shapes, minor and major, to the point where as long as I know what key a song/progression is in, I can solo up and down the neck hitting all the roots, 3s, 5s, and 7s. Basically I can sound like I sorta play some guitar. However, I want to take it to the next level but I'm really struggling with playing over the chord changes. No matter how slow the bpm, I stumble and choke when it comes to hearing those chord movements and hitting the corresponding chord tones to really sell the changes. If I am not thinking about it, I don't have a problem playing the notes of the major or minor scale and making them sound musical but that's not as advanced as I would like to be. I want to be able to transition my solos from, say, the 1 chord in a 1-6-2-5 progression to then target the root/3rd/5th of that 6 chord and then likewise target the 1/3/5s of the 2 chord etc but I am always fumbling my way from one chord to the next and getting lost, so that I just revert back to playing what's comfortable in the major scale of the key I'm playing. Can anyone give me some tips you may have learned to make it easier to see these changes and not just play the pentatonics but to hit those notes that underline the chord movement? 

[Ollie Slatt 289]

13 hours ago, Gourmand said:

 I am pretty comfortable with all the pentatonic shapes, minor and major, to the point where as long as I know what key a song/progression is in, I can solo up and down the neck hitting all the roots, 3s, 5s, and 7s. Basically I can sound like I sorta play some guitar. However, I want to take it to the next level but I'm really struggling with playing over the chord changes. No matter how slow the bpm, I stumble and choke when it comes to hearing those chord movements and hitting the corresponding chord tones to really sell the changes. If I am not thinking about it, I don't have a problem playing the notes of the major or minor scale and making them sound musical but that's not as advanced as I would like to be. I want to be able to transition my solos from, say, the 1 chord in a 1-6-2-5 progression to then target the root/3rd/5th of that 6 chord and then likewise target the 1/3/5s of the 2 chord etc but I am always fumbling my way from one chord to the next and getting lost, so that I just revert back to playing what's comfortable in the major scale of the key I'm playing. Can anyone give me some tips you may have learned to make it easier to see these changes and not just play the pentatonics but to hit those notes that underline the chord movement? 

I may not be totally understanding the question, but I think there may be a few potential next steps for you.  The first thing I would try is learning common triad shapes -- some people find the CAGED system a quick way to learn a number of those shapes as it relies on chord shapes you already know.  You could also try leaning some different modes so that you could (to use your example) shift to Dorian shapes over the 2 and Mixolydian shapes over the 5.  But I'd probably just start with basic triads. 

[Rimbo 26037]

On 5/19/2020 at 10:20 AM, Chad Fuck said:

The bolded portion is super important for beginners.  You can get going fast, BUT, there's a catch.  For people who are brand new (no music at all before), it takes from 4-6 weeks, practicing 15-20 minutes a day, to get our fingers to go where our minds know they should.  If you can get past that hump, you'll likely get hooked and play for life.  It's having the ability to overcome that initial frustration and power through that is many a beginner's downfall. 

So be the guy or gal that powers through.  

I'm new to both the guitar and this thread, so I may be responding to really old things like the above as I dig through ...

Yeah. The thing that surprised me the most about guitar was how easy it was. Now I'm my case I'm a classically trained cellist/pianist who also played electric bass... so I've got the theory already down, and...

Well, to put it bluntly, being classically trained warps your perspective vs the guitar. I expected to take a lot longer to be able to do what I can now do. Hell, the guitar itself - Yamaha Pacifica - with everything costs as much new as a set of cello strings alone costs.

So yeah, it's easy, all the more so if you've got some music knowledge.

But I've still got a ways to go, you know? Hardest thing for me is still picking, using a pick. And ever since I learned barre chords I lost interest in learning any others, lol

[Rimbo 26037]

On 6/3/2021 at 5:58 PM, Celery Man said:

I've been playing guitar since 1996, and for a long stretch of that time I've wanted to become competent playing fingerstyle. And I never did because it's so frustrating to do when if I grab a pick, I magically gain 25 years of experience. But since March, I've been cooped up with my wife in the house all the time, and then briefly in a small apartment, and then in the new house where she can hear me playing in my office from her workspace, and now with a little baby. So, I've been playing quietly, which means with my fingers, and magically at some point I realized I was not bad at this anymore. I didn't work hard at it at all or even do it all that much - it was annoying. But I have to grab my guitar every so often, and so it was somewhat consistent. And now a song that was once annoyingly out of reach (If We Were Vampires) is doable, and I'm playing fingerstyle for fun.

Anyways, just learning again what I've learned every time I've ever made progress with guitar - trying new things and trying them over and over and over and not worrying if you suck or even trying all that methodically to get better or spending large chunks of time in one sitting - just doing it for a bit every now and then over an extended period. Your hands catch up.

I'm the opposite, man. Can finger all day; lost with a pick.

So I practice with a 2mm Dunlop. Big. Ass. Pick. Because the extra weight makes all the others feel easier by comparison, and I don't have to worry about it chipping or breaking.

Plus, very metal. 🤘😁🤘

[Rimbo 26037]

14 hours ago, Gourmand said:

 I am pretty comfortable with all the pentatonic shapes, minor and major, to the point where as long as I know what key a song/progression is in, I can solo up and down the neck hitting all the roots, 3s, 5s, and 7s. Basically I can sound like I sorta play some guitar. However, I want to take it to the next level but I'm really struggling with playing over the chord changes. No matter how slow the bpm, I stumble and choke when it comes to hearing those chord movements and hitting the corresponding chord tones to really sell the changes. If I am not thinking about it, I don't have a problem playing the notes of the major or minor scale and making them sound musical but that's not as advanced as I would like to be. I want to be able to transition my solos from, say, the 1 chord in a 1-6-2-5 progression to then target the root/3rd/5th of that 6 chord and then likewise target the 1/3/5s of the 2 chord etc but I am always fumbling my way from one chord to the next and getting lost, so that I just revert back to playing what's comfortable in the major scale of the key I'm playing. Can anyone give me some tips you may have learned to make it easier to see these changes and not just play the pentatonics but to hit those notes that underline the chord movement? 

When in doubt, play the melody as your solo. Then you can start adding in color here and there. Sometimes the wrong note, now and then, is the right one.

[troph 24903]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:58 PM, G650 said:

I can't remember if it was this thread or the main one, but this is what I tell people. A little every day beats a lot in spurts.

 

It is hard. The best thing I've found is to think of what you get out of it more than what you are putting into it.

There’s research to support adult learning is best done in 5-15 minute spurts with more sessions that are super short. I still have my guitar but man it’s hard to put 15 mins into the rotation daily. Plus my fam has little tolerance for me strumming along to my favorite songs squawking like a frantic chicken ans strumming like an arrhythmic heart beat. Just makes them worry that I’m not ok. 

[Chad Fuck 17719]

There’s research to support adult learning is best done in 5-15 minute spurts with more sessions that are super short. I still have my guitar but man it’s hard to put 15 mins into the rotation daily. Plus my fam has little tolerance for me strumming along to my favorite songs squawking like a frantic chicken ans strumming like an arrhythmic heart beat. Just makes them worry that I’m not ok. 

All of which is a way of saying you need an amp with a headphone out and an auxiliary in.

See the amp buying thread for more tips.

[troph 24903]

6 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

All of which is a way of saying you need an amp with a headphone out and an auxiliary in.

See the amp buying thread for more tips.

Acoustic without an amp plug… 😕

[Celery Man 20991]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

Acoustic without an amp plug… 😕

https://www.fender.com/en-US/squier-electric-guitars/stratocaster/fender-x-hello-kitty-white-stratocaster/0379102980.html

[Celery Man 20991]

btw on the soloing question I applaud the study and the ambition. I can tell you that you can play for decades without working that hard to understand the neck

😶

[Chad Fuck 17719]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Acoustic without an amp plug… 😕

Ah, well then.  As Celery has indicated, this must be remedied.  Off to the guitpron thread for you.

[G650 14273]

@troph you came to the right place for people to help you spend your money

[Deej 76882]

3 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

All of which is a way of saying you need an amp with a headphone out and an auxiliary in.

See the amp buying thread for more tips.

Or get rid of the family

[Celery Man 20991]

5 minutes ago, Deej said:

Or get rid of the family

There’s a guitar for that -

https://gettrumpguitars.com/products/donald-j-trump-gold-electric-guitar

[Chad Fuck 17719]

41 minutes ago, Deej said:

Or get rid of the family

37 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

There’s a guitar for that -

https://gettrumpguitars.com/products/donald-j-trump-gold-electric-guitar

[Goredho 17413]

29 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

[Rimbo 26037]

A bit of advice.

When learning the cello, I got mixed advice on how to play loudly. Phyllis Young at UT told me to play as loudly as possible, so that you hear your mistakes; other teachers taught me to practice at the volume I intend to perform at. In that case, both my own judgment/experience -- and the stellar performing/careers of the others -- made me decide to practice at the volume I intend to perform at.

Something I've noticed on the guitar -- since my goal is to mostly be doing things at extreme amounts of gain -- is that I have to be FAR more accurate and deliberate with the gain/distortion cranked than I do playing clean/acoustic. And since I'm typically practicing with high gain, I've had to develop more accurate left-hand techniques and much better muting than I ever did when I was just playing acoustic. Not only that, but when I do switch to clean channel/acoustic sounds, it's much easier to play that way.

Also: Shut off all the effects, too, except for maybe a wee bit of reverb. Chorus is going to disguise when you're out of tune, gating is going to mask small errors you make, delay... fuckin' seriously? Yeah, you may record with all those things, but when you're practicing, you don't want effects to hide your mistakes.

[G650 14273]

10 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Shut off all the effects, too, except for maybe a wee bit of reverb

This is good advice, except I would say use no reverb whatsoever.

[Celery Man 20991]

650 has no drip