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The Surly Beginner Guitar Thread


VABuckeye

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literally just googled it

it's called a double stop because you're stopping, i.e. pushing a finger down, on two strings... vs having one or both strings open

And yeah, dunno why, but it feels like it makes more sense on fretless strings like the violin than it does on guitar for some reason.

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20 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

What I like about playing thirds that way is that there's a lot of benefits. One, you're learning the relationships between notes in the scale, not just the scale.

So the intervals, right? Such that you're learning the physical fret distance between the notes and the unique sound quality that relationship has? That is definitely something i struggle with knowing quickly.

Even with the countless hours of practicing I've done over the last few years, even knowing the CAGED system inside out and how to quickly find the root notes based on the shape of the chord and neck position, I still find it really difficult to put all those puzzle pieces together into one whole picture across all six strings and down the neck. 

This double stop exercise in thirds you're talking about is really pushing me to expand that understanding of where those puzzle pieces click together. For example, let's say I'm in E and playing the C-shaped E chord with the root at the fifth fret on the B string. I know that 1-3-5 zig zag shape between the B and E string intuitively, also the little triangle 1-3-5 between the B, E, and G strings and likewise I can quickly see/play the 1-3-5 on the A, D, and G strings (with the root at the 7th fret). What I find tricky is, say, playing the root #1 on the B string and then hunting for the third without defaulting to the #3 on the E string at the 4th fret or the #3 but knowing there's another #3 on the D string at the 6th fret. I'm so used to playing those specific arpeggio shapes that it's hard for me to connect those shapes themselves, especially when it involves skipping strings. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

So the intervals, right? Such that you're learning the physical fret distance between the notes and the unique sound quality that relationship has? That is definitely something i struggle with knowing quickly.

Even with the countless hours of practicing I've done over the last few years, even knowing the CAGED system inside out and how to quickly find the root notes based on the shape of the chord and neck position, I still find it really difficult to put all those puzzle pieces together into one whole picture across all six strings and down the neck. 

This double stop exercise in thirds you're talking about is really pushing me to expand that understanding of where those puzzle pieces click together. For example, let's say I'm in E and playing the C-shaped E chord with the root at the fifth fret on the B string. I know that 1-3-5 zig zag shape between the B and E string intuitively, also the little triangle 1-3-5 between the B, E, and G strings and likewise I can quickly see/play the 1-3-5 on the A, D, and G strings (with the root at the 7th fret). What I find tricky is, say, playing the root #1 on the B string and then hunting for the third without defaulting to the #3 on the E string at the 4th fret or the #3 but knowing there's another #3 on the D string at the 6th fret. I'm so used to playing those specific arpeggio shapes that it's hard for me to connect those shapes themselves, especially when it involves skipping strings. 

 

Now you're making me realize that I want to do that exercise, too. And not just on the E/B strings, but on the B/G strings, too. Maybe especially on those strings...

 

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On 1/12/2025 at 12:30 PM, Gourmand said:

Ok I have questions about double stops.

First, why are they called double stops that makes literally no sense at all to me?

More importantly, is there a specific preferred method to follow for using double stops or is it an anything that works kind of deal?

For example, without really knowing the theory behind what I'm doing, I typically rely on the top two strings (the high E and B) as my easy anchor for double stops and always play them together on the same fret following the pentatonic chord shapes with the A-shape as my easy fretboard navigation point. I know the pentatonics and full scale shapes well enough to be able to move up and down the neck in the key I'm playing but my crutch wrt double stops is always playing the E/B strings together on the same fret. I'll also try to use that shape to focus on just the middle two strings as well-playing them together at the same fret-- but am not really comfortable enough with string skipping and finger picking to play, say, the only high E and D string together. Or the D and low E etc.

I recently watched a short video on this and the instruction recommended playing two notes at time to harmonize the full scale where you're playing the root and third at the same time and moving up the neck accordingly to imply the next chord in the key. So if you're playing in D and you're starting at the first position you'd start with a D on the B-string at the third fret and an F# on the E-string second fret, playing them together, then move up and play an E on the B-string and a G on the E-string (flat third) and then from there play F# on the B-string and A on the E-string, etc so that you're implying a chord progression going from D >E minor >F# minor >G >A >B minor> C#>D.

This was definitely an eye-opener for me because I didn't know about using double stops this way. So is this the way to use double stops and have I been doing it all wrong? How do you all use them? And how the heck do you make those stretches on the low-E and A strings to play just the root and third??? 

 

 

 

 

So the first part is mostly just lingo, IIRC correctly it comes from fretting two strings at once, ie. stopping them. It started on classical strings such as violin, so some of this shit is lost in the mists of time.

 

But to the bigger point, double stops are used as all sorts of intervals, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, you name it. They can harmonize the chord you are playing over, or imply a chord, etc... You know the notes, and triad basics I believe, so I would suggest thinking about how these notes stack on top. An easy exercise on the E and B strings is to go up the A minor pentatonic scale with double stops, so C and E (first fret B string, open E string) D and G (third fret B and E string) etc., all the way up the neck. The first group is a major 3rd, then second a perfect fourth. You can listen to the different sounds they make and get ideas where to use those textures and can hear how each sounds relative to each other. Stick on an A drone track and noodle away.

 

As far as right on wrong, it's really does it sound good or not, that's it. I typically play double stops on the G and B strings. Hendrix played a lot on the A and D strings. There's no wrong answer.

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6 hours ago, G650 said:

 

So the first part is mostly just lingo, IIRC correctly it comes from fretting two strings at once, ie. stopping them. It started on classical strings such as violin, so some of this shit is lost in the mists of time.

 

But to the bigger point, double stops are used as all sorts of intervals, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, you name it. They can harmonize the chord you are playing over, or imply a chord, etc... You know the notes, and triad basics I believe, so I would suggest thinking about how these notes stack on top. An easy exercise on the E and B strings is to go up the A minor pentatonic scale with double stops, so C and E (first fret B string, open E string) D and G (third fret B and E string) etc., all the way up the neck. The first group is a major 3rd, then second a perfect fourth. You can listen to the different sounds they make and get ideas where to use those textures and can hear how each sounds relative to each other. Stick on an A drone track and noodle away.

 

As far as right on wrong, it's really does it sound good or not, that's it. I typically play double stops on the G and B strings. Hendrix played a lot on the A and D strings. There's no wrong answer.

 

Helpful post, thanks!

 

I think the exercise you recommended is exactly the one I've been working on yesterday and today. Started practicing in C (relative A minor), moved up to D, then E etc as an exercise on those top two strings to get a feel for the changing shapes of those dyads moving up the fretboard to play the major scale. So, for the C major example, playing only the root and third notes on the E and B strings up the fretboard would give you the full harmonized major scale  of C > D minor > E minor > F > G > A minor > B > C.

This has been one of those small game-changer light bulb moments for me because I only played the double stops that were easy and comfortable and sounded good without any consideration of the intervals or what it was I was playing. All based in the boxy shapes. My crutch is typically playing linear double stops built from the pentatonic boxes like this....

image.png.4b586a53540052df564a762108ece26f.png

I'll also focus on the D and G strings for pattern 2 and play those together as well. (Are all these perfect fourths?)

What I'm not doing enough of is string skipping or hitting on the 1s and 3s, it's all just basically playing chord chunks laid out right next to each other because they're easy to find and play together. The problem is that although my playing sounds like I know how to navigate the fretboard in a key and play the pentatonics and arpeggios and the full major/minor scale, my double stops are repetitive and formulaic. They fit structurally and sound good, but.....kinda meh after a while?

Is the issue playing the same interval without changing it up enough? Seems like all I'm doing when playing those double stops is taking little pieces of the pentatonic boxes, and I'm nor really sure that's saying much wrt playing guitar.

At least this exercise is forcing me to expand that comfort zone.

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4 hours ago, Gourmand said:

Is the issue playing the same interval without changing it up enough?

 

I think you will find that each interval has it's own flavor so to speak, and you will favor ones that fit your mood the more you play them.

 

If you haven't definitely put some work into hybrid picking as well, helps immensely for moving around more.

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On 1/12/2025 at 11:30 AM, Gourmand said:

More importantly, is there a specific preferred method to follow for using double stops or is it an anything that works kind of deal?

My advice is to fight hard against the instinct that there is any “preferred” or “right” way to do anything on guitar. There are certain things like form or picking patterns where it might be helpful to learn a difficult approach that makes things easier long-term.

But in terms of the notes you play, in what order, etc.? Play around. Find what sounds good. Be creative. The best guitarists took existing forms and added their own unique twists, with amazing results. 

 

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