The Surly Beginner Guitar Thread

[Celery Man 21103]

I've been playing guitar since 1996, and for a long stretch of that time I've wanted to become competent playing fingerstyle. And I never did because it's so frustrating to do when if I grab a pick, I magically gain 25 years of experience. But since March, I've been cooped up with my wife in the house all the time, and then briefly in a small apartment, and then in the new house where she can hear me playing in my office from her workspace, and now with a little baby. So, I've been playing quietly, which means with my fingers, and magically at some point I realized I was not bad at this anymore. I didn't work hard at it at all or even do it all that much - it was annoying. But I have to grab my guitar every so often, and so it was somewhat consistent. And now a song that was once annoyingly out of reach (If We Were Vampires) is doable, and I'm playing fingerstyle for fun.

Anyways, just learning again what I've learned every time I've ever made progress with guitar - trying new things and trying them over and over and over and not worrying if you suck or even trying all that methodically to get better or spending large chunks of time in one sitting - just doing it for a bit every now and then over an extended period. Your hands catch up.

[Goredho 17663]

27 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I've been playing guitar since 1996, and for a long stretch of that time I've wanted to become competent playing fingerstyle. And I never did because it's so frustrating to do when if I grab a pick, I magically gain 25 years of experience. But since March, I've been cooped up with my wife in the house all the time, and then briefly in a small apartment, and then in the new house where she can hear me playing in my office from her workspace, and now with a little baby. So, I've been playing quietly, which means with my fingers, and magically at some point I realized I was not bad at this anymore. I didn't work hard at it at all or even do it all that much - it was annoying. But I have to grab my guitar every so often, and so it was somewhat consistent. And now a song that was once annoyingly out of reach (If We Were Vampires) is doable, and I'm playing fingerstyle for fun.

Anyways, just learning again what I've learned every time I've ever made progress with guitar - trying new things and trying them over and over and over and not worrying if you suck or even trying all that methodically to get better or spending large chunks of time in one sitting - just doing it for a bit every now and then over an extended period. Your hands catch up.

Good for you, man.  Getting out of your comfort zone is a real key to growth.  I’ve experienced something similar but more on the theory front through taking guitar lessons from a really advanced teacher on zoom.  Every two weeks we get together over a lunch hour, talk some theory and he challenges me — tweaking my musical thinking and how I might approach a piece of music differently.  My understanding of music has really sky rocketed and I’m playing and composing things I might never have been able to if simply left to my own devices.
 

Anyway, kudos for finding a way to fuel your growth even if it wasn’t wholly a conscious effort.

[DougO 5267]

21 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I've been playing guitar since 1996, and for a long stretch of that time I've wanted to become competent playing fingerstyle. And I never did because it's so frustrating to do when if I grab a pick, I magically gain 25 years of experience. But since March, I've been cooped up with my wife in the house all the time, and then briefly in a small apartment, and then in the new house where she can hear me playing in my office from her workspace, and now with a little baby. So, I've been playing quietly, which means with my fingers, and magically at some point I realized I was not bad at this anymore. I didn't work hard at it at all or even do it all that much - it was annoying. But I have to grab my guitar every so often, and so it was somewhat consistent. And now a song that was once annoyingly out of reach (If We Were Vampires) is doable, and I'm playing fingerstyle for fun.

Anyways, just learning again what I've learned every time I've ever made progress with guitar - trying new things and trying them over and over and over and not worrying if you suck or even trying all that methodically to get better or spending large chunks of time in one sitting - just doing it for a bit every now and then over an extended period. Your hands catch up.

 

I'm not a good player by any stretch, but some of the best advice I've heard that has done a lot for me is from a David Grissom interview. He said it's a lot more important to play for 15 minutes every day than it is to practice for hours at a time. It really goes along with what you are saying.

I got a lot better in my rapidly aging years by just having the guitar available. For some reason I decided to keep one by my comfy chair where I watch TV. When I felt like playing for a bit, maybe triggered by something on the tube, I could just pick it up right away then put it down. After a while I realized I really sucked a lot less than I had before, and probably learned more and advanced more in a few months than any time since I was actively playing regularly with a bunch of friends decades ago. I became far more familiar with the fretboard and more competent just riffing and improvising, and the fingers and hands got way more comfortable and confident doing guitar things.

Now I just need to get back to doing that, because I've kinda been slacking badly the last year or two.

Edited June 4, 2021 by DougO

[Deej 77864]

Rip that top string off your Tele, tune to open G, and get busy.

 

 

[Celery Man 21103]

Yeah, the takeaway from that for anyone trying to get better, but especially early guitar folks, is to keep a guitar out and pick it up frequently. Learn the chords to some song you like, even if you can just barely get through it and there’s no rhythm. Then just pick it up and run through it, and do that frequently. Repeat forever, adding complexity.

[Celery Man 21103]

6 minutes ago, Deej said:

Rip that top string off your Tele, tune to open G, and get busy.

 

 

I had my G&L strung up as a Keef guitar for a minute, I should go back to that. Just been having too much fun with DADGAD

[Deej 77864]

So much fun and so easy.

 

[DougO 5267]

I have considered just concentrating on open tuning, though I haven't messed with it in a while. I yearn for it when I hear so much of it in my typical playlist. Plenty of stuff to play seems like a quicker and easier path to seeming fairy competent.

Here are a few to learn straight from the source.

 

 

 

[DougO 5267]

I keep my 90s Epiphone LP Junior with the P90 in open G, but unfortunately haven't touched it in a good while, or anything else. I need to get my ass in gear and leave the 2020s depression bullshit behind.

[Deej 77864]

"Show me that five string shit!"

 

[AnotherUTFan 10006]

"Show me that five string shit!"
 

That lines stuck with me since before I could play a guitar!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[BrickHorn 18450]

On 6/4/2021 at 7:26 PM, Deej said:

So much fun and so easy.

 

Pretty cool, but he needs to work on Gimme Shelter a bit more.

[Deej 77864]

6 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Pretty cool, but he needs to work on Gimme Shelter a bit more.

Well, considering that one and a few others in there weren't originally in Open G, he didn't play it too badly. 

[troph 25247]

On 5/27/2021 at 9:20 PM, topochico said:

About that F chord...... let's just say it is the first big hurdle for beginners. Are you ever in DFW Troph? I have a Seagull S6 I can part with. PM me

PM sent.

[Deej 77864]

 

[Scooter Monzingo 821]

I’m not an instructor, but my hot tip is always leave a guitar laying around. Guitars in cases tend not to get played. You would shocked how much practice time I have accrued just waiting for my wife to get ready to go somewhere.

[Buzzrock 15140]

The one thing that has stuck with me from the Surly threads is to concentrate on your right hand. Man I wish I’d been told that decades ago. It’s hard to break the habit of over-focusing on the left, but I’m working on it. Here’s another video that helps demonstrate that in a little different way:

[Buzzrock 15140]

I’m not an instructor, but my hot tip is always leave a guitar laying around. Guitars in cases tend not to get played. You would shocked how much practice time I have accrued just waiting for my wife to get ready to go somewhere.

Counterpoint: I literally just noticed that my Taylor has a crack in the body on the cutaway. I’ll never know which kid or friend or pet caused it, but maybe I should leave out the $150 Yamaha instead of the $1800 Taylor.

It’s not a big deal because I don’t intend to ever sell it, and no one would notice but me, but dammit!

[Gourmand 7778]

Bumping this thread to say there's a lot of useful advice here (some of which I need to go back and read again) and also ask some questions and share some lightbulb moments I've had in my long journey from beginner to beginner guitarist. 

My first question for you seasoned players is about memorizing pentatonics. I started with the basic pattern 2 and pattern 4 major and minor pentatonic scales and went from there to learn all five shapes, but the further I went the more I was confused AF by what shape went with what respective minor/major pentatonic until I finally realized they were all the same five patterns (duh) and to just keep practicing them in different keys. Any good exercises I should try aside from playing over backing tracks? My typical routine is going up and down the pentatonic vertically but I'd like to have a better feel for them across the strings horizontally. I'm not all the way there with them but I'm comfortable and getting close to having the patterns down pat but more importantly I understand the importance of knowing the root notes and how those dictate the shape of the pattern. Man, CAGED is everything!! I would never have figured it out without first learning CAGED and understanding how those octave shapes define the chord shapes and the pentatonics are all from those chord shapes. 

If you are a beginner (or an intermediate) and you don't know CAGED, I highly recommend learning it because it will unlock the fretboard and make the guitar a lot less mystifying, it will help you understand pentatonics, and it will also help you be able to figure out what chord you're playing when you just land on some triad that sounds good.

Also, another trick I used to help me visualize how the pentatonics relate to each other was to print up a pdf of each respective pattern in both  minor and major form and then cut each one out into little rectangles. I then took those little rectangles and, starting with pattern 1 as you would on, say, the D chord from frets 2-5, laid each one over the next where the root notes match. In essence they are like little jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together on each end. Amazing. I realize it probably sounds silly and obvious to the experienced guitarists but that was a really helpful visualization technique that also helped me understand how the parts fit into the whole.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Gourmand

[G650 14450]

1 hour ago, Gourmand said:

Also, another trick I used to help me visualize how the pentatonics relate to each other was to print up a pdf of each respective pattern in both  minor and major form and then cut each one out into little rectangles.

That's not a bad idea in the least. They also have full fretboard scale charts you can print out and look at the entire pattern, which performs a similar function.

 

One tip I would give anyone is to run each pattern consecutively up the neck, then back down. Once you can do this fluidly, look at jumping off points to move from one pattern to the next. Being able to transition up and down the neck is one of the bigger stumbling blocks.

[tbone_ 14462]

I’ve never really done the caged thing. For those that have, what’s a good way to dive in?

[Gourmand 7778]

6 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I’ve never really done the caged thing. For those that have, what’s a good way to dive in?

 

[Deej 77864]

Wood. 

[tbone_ 14462]

Yea no shit

[locodos 5593]

so I really enjoy the Peach Pit

It was great during the pandemic that the band put out videos how to play their songs...   I'm not there yet, but it seemed like a really cool thing to get taught by the band.

 

[Goredho 17663]

7 hours ago, Gourmand said:

 

 

[Napoleon 8852]

2 hours ago, Goredho said:

 

This sent me down a “Chained Heat” worm hole and there is a lot to be said for women in prison films, though not many guitar lessons among the photos I scrolled through.

Perhaps I should have typed “guitar” rather than whatever descriptor I used. 🧐

Edited January 31, 2023 by Napoleon

[BrickHorn 18450]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:51 AM, Gourmand said:

Any good exercises I should try aside from playing over backing tracks?

Identify solos you like listening to and learn them. The first one will be hard and it will take you a lot of work to get it right. So pick one that is manageable and take it in bite sized chunks. Find tabs and YouTube lessons to help you work out the details, but also try to figure out as much as you can by ear. Eventually with enough practice, it gets easier and easier. 

You learn enough of other guitarists’ solos and suddenly you’ll find yourself fluent in working through the scales in very different ways. And then you can start adding your own flourishes to the mix. 

[DalTxHornFan 3130]

12 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Identify solos you like listening to and learn them. The first one will be hard and it will take you a lot of work to get it right. So pick one that is manageable and take it in bite sized chunks. Find tabs and YouTube lessons to help you work out the details, but also try to figure out as much as you can by ear. Eventually with enough practice, it gets easier and easier. 

You learn enough of other guitarists’ solos and suddenly you’ll find yourself fluent in working through the scales in very different ways. And then you can start adding your own flourishes to the mix. 

I've been doing this from time to time on Terry Kath and his 25 or 6 to 4 solos for the past 40 years!  I can do a lick or two, but man, he was great!  Me -- I am still a well below average rythm guitar player. Rocking those chords though!

[Not that Bob 743]

I recently got my dream guitar, a Martin d 12 28. I’ve been an electric guy almost exclusively but the legendary “chorus of angels” always spoke to me and for a number of reasons it was time to go acoustic. The transition was a bear for about 3 months but as said above “pick it up every day”. It’s like wearing leg weights. Now my strength is so much better and picking up a six seems like cheating. I haven’t touched an electric in months, if not years. I’m also learning songs I would not have in the past. Chorus of angels man. Chorus of angels. Love this guitar. 

[Chad Fuck 18166]

I recently got my dream guitar, a Martin d 12 28. I’ve been an electric guy almost exclusively but the legendary “chorus of angels” always spoke to me and for a number of reasons it was time to go acoustic. The transition was a bear for about 3 months but as said above “pick it up every day”. It’s like wearing leg weights. Now my strength is so much better and picking up a six seems like cheating. I haven’t touched an electric in months, if not years. I’m also learning songs I would not have in the past. Chorus of angels man. Chorus of angels. Love this guitar. 

Having a guitar that suits/inspires you is key.

Also, may I suggest “Cinammon Girl” as a jumping off place for solos. And anything by Chuck Berry. Nothing he did was very difficult technically, but the soul of rock is in there. Plus, everyone needs to know how to do their own version of Johnny B Goode. It’s a rule or something.

[Chad Fuck 18166]

I recently got my dream guitar, a Martin d 12 28. I’ve been an electric guy almost exclusively but the legendary “chorus of angels” always spoke to me and for a number of reasons it was time to go acoustic. The transition was a bear for about 3 months but as said above “pick it up every day”. It’s like wearing leg weights. Now my strength is so much better and picking up a six seems like cheating. I haven’t touched an electric in months, if not years. I’m also learning songs I would not have in the past. Chorus of angels man. Chorus of angels. Love this guitar. 

Having a guitar that suits/inspires you is key.

Also, may I suggest “Cinammon Girl” as a jumping off place for solos. And anything by Chuck Berry. Nothing he did was very difficult technically, but the soul of rock is in there. Plus, everyone needs to know how to do their own version of Johnny B Goode. It’s a rule or something.

[G650 14450]

13 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Identify solos you like listening to and learn them.

 

Not just solos, but all the parts. My personal take has always been to recommend to people to practice a blend of exercise and playing songs. As you advance, you can pick out songs that have something you want to work on. Wanna work on fingerpicking? Play Stairway (just not in the music store). Slide? Just Got Paid. And so on.

[BrickHorn 18450]

3 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Also, may I suggest “Cinammon Girl” as a jumping off place for solos.

It’s a great song to learn how to play one note, over and over again.

[Chad Fuck 18166]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

It’s a great song to learn how to play one note, over and over again.

[Not that Bob 743]

Chad is so right. Get a guitar that speaks to you. I’ve played long enough, though not frequently enough, to at least not embarrass myself.  I don’t blaze but I have developed “touch” over the years. I know if you beat the shit out of your instrument it will sound bad. Given at least modest touch this damn d12 28 will sing for you. Even just some dinky cowboy chords come alive. Just hit a simple G, let it ring a couple of seconds. Then the C. Then the D. Everyone in the room will say “Damn, that sounds good”. Now they won’t say “you” sound good but even the untrained ear can hear the pitch and timbre. The sustain for ever. Add in the harmonic strings and you have a sweetness, a chorusing effect that, well it just does it for me. Closest I can explain is simple notes played on a pipe organ.  Listen to E. Power Biggs  play the first 10-12 notes of The Bach Fugue in G minor. The instrument itself. The wind across the pipes. The resonance of the sound box. Regardless of the notes it’s simply a magnificent sound. It hits a spot in the brain that allows you to hear beauty. This Martin does that for me. Simple songs are a pleasure. 

[Napoleon 8852]

1 hour ago, Not that Bob said:

Chad is so right. Get a guitar that speaks to you. I’ve played long enough, though not frequently enough, to at least not embarrass myself.  I don’t blaze but I have developed “touch” over the years. I know if you beat the shit out of your instrument it will sound bad. Given at least modest touch this damn d12 28 will sing for you. Even just some dinky cowboy chords come alive. Just hit a simple G, let it ring a couple of seconds. Then the C. Then the D. Everyone in the room will say “Damn, that sounds good”. Now they won’t say “you” sound good but even the untrained ear can hear the pitch and timbre. The sustain for ever. Add in the harmonic strings and you have a sweetness, a chorusing effect that, well it just does it for me. Closest I can explain is simple notes played on a pipe organ.  Listen to E. Power Biggs  play the first 10-12 notes of The Bach Fugue in G minor. The instrument itself. The wind across the pipes. The resonance of the sound box. Regardless of the notes it’s simply a magnificent sound. It hits a spot in the brain that allows you to hear beauty. This Martin does that for me. Simple songs are a pleasure. 

 

The most important thing.

Lined up at 35:30.

[Buzzrock 15140]

Here's everyone's favorite guitar player playing everyone's favorite guitar and giving some pretty solid advice. I've pretty much never followed it or I'd be a lot better. I am impatient.

 

[tbone_ 14462]

The dude can fucking play

[nbmishoid 989]

I am one of the guys that did guitar for a couple of years out of college, then maybe every 10 years I’d start over.  So, permanent beginner.  I did buy a wonderful guitar, Taylor 714 cedar top, 3 years ago, and was starting over yet again, when all  things got put on hold for a couple of years.  I came out of that with a mission from god regarding guitar, so started with a teacher at 68 yrs old.  My teacher is 64.   Anyway, 2 of three messages here, and number one is commitment.   Real deal commitment.  More than anything, you muster up and bring it, all will be ok.  
second is yes, get a teacher of some sort so that you are constantly challenged.  Some can get this out of books, videos, etc.  

So the third recommendation, can’t believe I am admitting this, but learning to, or just working at reading music is, in fact far from a waste of time.  2 hours it has taken me to note name and play 7 lines of classical bit some Italian wrote for his kid to study 300 years ago.  I feel I’m communing with both, weird. 

Yes, work on reading music.   Take up some classical.  

[G650 14450]

21 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

So the third recommendation, can’t believe I am admitting this, but learning to, or just working at reading music is, in fact far from a waste of time

 

It's definitely not a waste of time. To play rock guitar it's obviously not a requirement, but it certainly is a help.

 

As a card carrying band dork, the upside of when i learned to play guitar is I didn't have to learn music theory at the same time, I just had to learn how to play the instrument.

 

I think it impacts how i navigate the fretboard too. I've always advocated people find the system that works for them, liked CAGED etc., because everyone is a little different and there is no right way. For me, I have always just visualized the steps of the scale as it's my foundation.

[nbmishoid 989]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:39 PM, Not that Bob said:

Chad is so right. Get a guitar that speaks to you. I’ve played long enough, though not frequently enough, to at least not embarrass myself.  I don’t blaze but I have developed “touch” over the years. I know if you beat the shit out of your instrument it will sound bad. Given at least modest touch this damn d12 28 will sing for you. Even just some dinky cowboy chords come alive. Just hit a simple G, let it ring a couple of seconds. Then the C. Then the D. Everyone in the room will say “Damn, that sounds good”. Now they won’t say “you” sound good but even the untrained ear can hear the pitch and timbre. The sustain for ever. Add in the harmonic strings and you have a sweetness, a chorusing effect that, well it just does it for me. Closest I can explain is simple notes played on a pipe organ.  Listen to E. Power Biggs  play the first 10-12 notes of The Bach Fugue in G minor. The instrument itself. The wind across the pipes. The resonance of the sound box. Regardless of the notes it’s simply a magnificent sound. It hits a spot in the brain that allows you to hear beauty. This Martin does that for me. Simple songs are a pleasure. 

NTB,

Tried to sell a 76 d12-28 here a couple months ago when I was able to get back to guitar.  Figured at that time I just wouldn’t “mess with” the 12 string. But everything you say is true to my ear as well.   It is just so much noise I have to holler rather than sing.  Well, there is that matter of touch. 
if I break out the 12 I will probably have to play it outside.   Why the hell not (props to Kinky F)

[Not that Bob 743]

NB, don't sell that 12 string. At some point in your life you will want what it does. Even my nice Martin is a bear to play. The neck is big. Push down the low string of the pair and you still have to push harder to sound the high string of the pair, and you have to do that without pushing so hard that you pull it out of pitch. It is a different animal. I look at as "exercise". My hands are stronger and better on a 6 string because of the strength the 12 string has "forced" me to have. I played with a pick all my life, I still have a drawer full of blue Wabash, but I have started using my bare fingers. Not really finger picking, but sort of using my fingers the same as I would a pick...sort of...I'm still developing my "style". Anyhow, the fleshy part of your finger may calm some of the "noise" as you call it. Let me be redundant...do not sell that Martin. Some day you will want to hear that "Chorus of Angels". 

[nbmishoid 989]

Bob
You’ve talked me into putting the 12-28 into rotation.  Strings are new, so it’s just there.   My teacher talked me into retaining the LP, and we’ll start in on that in a month.  0And my old Yairi is in the tv room to pick up whenever (whenever I’m alone in there.). The problem of what to do with those 3, a supposed problem in February, has been resolved.  
I found the 12 not as well suited to finger picking, and that was my “strength”.  It does, as you say, make the 6 seem easy to navigate. A benefit in itself.  We’ll see what I think now.

[nbmishoid 989]

Awful quiet in here.  Well, managing deciphering and playing that Italian piece worked so well that he handed me Bouree, that Bach tune that Jethro Tull covered so fantastically.  So much more difficult.  Bass and melody lines traveling different directions, blah, blah.   40 minutes got me 4 measures.  Wah, effin, wah.  Second session maybe a couple.  I guess this is where the commitment has to plug in.

[hullabelew 3730]

Also posted on Guitar thread:  Stupid Deal link below on D’Angelico Premier Lexington CS.  

If someone is looking for a beginner or beater/campfire guitar (and you can get past the tuners), these D'Angelico's are a very good buy at $400 and a STEAL at $200.   They play really nice...the neck is really great for smaller hands but isn't too small and the preamp in these things sounds fantastic.  A friend of mine tried a stint in Nashville as a songwriter, then got his law degree and is now a pastor of a Baptist church but his true love is still music.  He has shelved all of his high dollar acoustics in his church band for one of these.  Every time I talk to him, he sings the praised of this thing. 

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid?icid=210190

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by hullabelew

[nbmishoid 989]

7 hours ago, hullabelew said:

Also posted on Guitar thread:  Stupid Deal link below on D’Angelico Premier Lexington CS.  

If someone is looking for a beginner or beater/campfire guitar (and you can get past the tuners), these D'Angelico's are a very good buy at $400 and a STEAL at $200.   They play really nice...the neck is really great for smaller hands but isn't too small and the preamp in these things sounds fantastic.  A friend of mine tried a stint in Nashville as a songwriter, then got his law degree and is now a pastor of a Baptist church but his true love is still music.  He has shelved all of his high dollar acoustics in his church band for one of these.  Every time I talk to him, he sings the praised of this thing. 

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid?icid=210190

 

That black is really nice. 

[tbone_ 14462]

The tuners don’t worry me so much as the BC Rich medieval head stock.

[nbmishoid 989]

First lesson on electric ina half hour.   About effing time.

[sidis 10019]

1 hour ago, nbmishoid said:

First lesson on electric ina half hour.   About effing time.

cool man, good luck with the journey.  you are actually taking the necessary steps to truly get better unlike most people.