Fractional options

[Atxracer 797]

What do you aficionados know about fractional options?  Currently looking at one flight but haven’t checked into net jets, etc.  Checking out one flight because a buddy of mine recommended it.  Unless you tell me otherwise from a safety standpoint, not interested in turbo props.  
 

Summary is, I really don’t have an interest in traveling commercial for awhile but would be nice to still travel for work a couple times a month (Probably no more than 2-3 hours each way on average).  I am in Austin and need to travel pretty much throughout various places in the continental US and sometimes Grand Cayman.  
 

Do you guys that are in “the know” have recommendations on which options are the best deal?

[TwiceHorn 31,435]

7 minutes ago, Atxracer said:

What do you aficionados know about fractional options?  Currently looking at one flight but haven’t checked into net jets, etc.  Checking out one flight because a buddy of mine recommended it.  Unless you tell me otherwise from a safety standpoint, not interested in turbo props.  
 

Summary is, I really don’t have an interest in traveling commercial for awhile but would be nice to still travel for work a couple times a month (Probably no more than 2-3 hours each way on average).  I am in Austin and need to travel pretty much throughout various places in the continental US and sometimes Grand Cayman.  
 

Do you guys that are in “the know” have recommendations on which options are the best deal?

Doing a little offshore banking are we?  Wink wink nudge nudge.

[Atxracer 797]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Doing a little offshore banking are we?  Wink wink nudge nudge.

Lol, not for me.  I am in insurance and some of my clients are.  

[Carl Spackler 3,479]

[CycleTex87 2,965]

Figure $5000/hr.  See if that fits your budget.  I’ve actually been looking into the same thing for my company. 

[RDCanecutter 26,377]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:47 PM, Atxracer said:

Lol, not for me.  I am in insurance and some of my clients are.  

Please tell me you fly wearing a tan leisure suit, with a briefcase handcuffed to your wrist. I need this to be true.

[Atxracer 797]

52 minutes ago, CycleTex87 said:

Figure $5000/hr.  See if that fits your budget.  I’ve actually been looking into the same thing for my company. 

That’s kinda what I am seeing from one flight but have a call with them Tuesday to get the full details.  Have you checked out net jets and wheels up...or others? Just starting this process and pretty foreign territory.  

[DalTxHornFan 3,097]

What class of jet are you looking for?

[G650 14,229]

Generally speaking,  you have to hit certain benchmarks for fractional to be better than straight charter.

[CycleTex87 2,965]

3 hours ago, Atxracer said:

That’s kinda what I am seeing from one flight but have a call with them Tuesday to get the full details.  Have you checked out net jets and wheels up...or others? Just starting this process and pretty foreign territory.  

I got the most info from Netjets.  They can structure a contract/fractional ownership any number of ways, based on the number of hours a year you estimate you would use the service.  Netjets is the largest service.  More hours per year, the cost per hour goes down, but not dramatically.  Lotta in, lotta outs, lotta what have yous, but like a guy told me one time it’s really expensive to fly 500 mph. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

I flew for one of the large fractional operators for over a decade. They can structure the contract 100 different ways to accommodate your needs including the ability to move up or down in aircraft size or buy additional hours if needed. Or sell them back to company or into an owner pot. 

During my last few years there the charter card product really blew up, and pure fractional shares declined to only 50-60% of the clientele we flew. The cards tend to be a touch more expensive per hour, but have lower total hours bought, and all liability is pushed off on the operator instead of the share owner. 

Also, and this seems almost silly, but the cards tend to be a one bill item whereas the fractional shares would send updated bills for fuel surcharges, management fees etc. in addition to the base cost of the share. 

It’s been awhile, but 25 hours in a 7 seat, one stop to anywhere in the country type fleet cost $108k. I’m sure that increased a bit, but you might be able to drive a deal as the fracs are sitting around almost as much as the airlines. 

[52-80 19,142]

13 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

What class of jet are you looking for?

eco plus

[Atxracer 797]

16 hours ago, G650 said:

Generally speaking,  you have to hit certain benchmarks for fractional to be better than straight charter.

That’s the part I am trying to figure out the math on. I have a feeling with a couple trips a month at 2-3 hours each way, fractional would win but I am new to this and could be wrong. Besides one flight, wheels up and net jets, anyone else I should check out. 
 

I also don’t know a ton about jets but I don’t see taking any more than 5 passengers at a time. Usually 1-3. But, I want safety too.  

[Atxracer 797]

17 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Please tell me you fly wearing a tan leisure suit, with a briefcase handcuffed to your wrist. I need this to be true.

It’s linen, with glasses, a mustache and those white shoes from the other thread.  

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

Depends on the mission, but the normal fractional/charter players are NetJets, Flexjet, XOjet, Travel Management, Planesense, Wheelsup and Jet Suite. 

I’m guessing you’re looking at Excels or Latitudes if you’re comparing Wheels Up and NJ’s. 

Something to think about, and I’m sure they’ve mentioned it, but larger fleets mean better recoverability and shorter wait times to not fly on some chartered jet you know nothing about when weather, maintenance or duty issues inevitably delay one your flights. For Flexjet or NetJets, for example, those recoveries will often take place in better equipment whereas one and two plane fleets like Wheels Up means it’ll be another Excel or maybe a King Air 350. 

It makes things a tad better when the flight goes off schedule, but at least a Challenger 300/350, G or Global shows up to complete the trip. 

If you’re considering the Phenom versus KingAir 350 then I would simply say that the Phenom has a ton of baggage space, is quite cramped inside, is very slow and has long legs. It’s an entry level jet, and your expectations should be set there even though the salesmen will tell you it is the cat’s very own ass. We routinely skunked it with performance, and the owner’s often noticed the greatly reduced block times. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Bobby_Batronic

[Atxracer 797]

1 hour ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

I’m guessing you’re looking at Excels or Latitudes if you’re comparing Wheels Up and NJ’s. 

Really just starting this process and a buddy is the one that mentioned and joined one flight so that’s the first call I scheduled. If/when I do anything, I definitely wanted to check out all options as they apply to my criteria so thanks for this info.  If it’s cool with you, I’ll pm you after I dig up some more data.  

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

40 minutes ago, Atxracer said:

Really just starting this process and a buddy is the one that mentioned and joined one flight so that’s the first call I scheduled. If/when I do anything, I definitely wanted to check out all options as they apply to my criteria so thanks for this info.  If it’s cool with you, I’ll pm you after I dig up some more data.  

Happy to help as I can. I can at least provide the crew perspective on the frac equation.

[Mother mopar 3,318]

Lol, not for me.  I am in hydraulics and some of my clients are.  

FIFY

[ChiTownDoc 21,139]

Man we went down this rabbit hole.  Looked at it every which way and I just couldn't justify it, living in Chicago and having directs all over.  I could definitely see how C19 makes it worthwhile for a lot of people but it's flat out pissing on money - and I piss on money all the time, but this was a bridge too far.  We charter a couple times a year for fun but I couldn't stomach any more than that.  I'm also picky when I charter - I seem to see some pretty worn out planes being offered...I could care less on the looks, but don't risk my safety, bro. 

[G650 14,229]

11 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Man we went down this rabbit hole.  Looked at it every which way and I just couldn't justify it, living in Chicago and having directs all over.  I could definitely see how C19 makes it worthwhile for a lot of people but it's flat out pissing on money - and I piss on money all the time, but this was a bridge too far.  We charter a couple times a year for fun but I couldn't stomach any more than that.  I'm also picky when I charter - I seem to see some pretty worn out planes being offered...I could care less on the looks, but don't risk my safety, bro. 

This is where most of us end up my friend.

[Atxracer 797]

I ended up in the same spot. In hindsight, my question should have asked about program options since there is a difference between fractional and programs. But, even then, no matter how you slice it, it’s 5k/hr. For a couple personal trips with the three of us, a charter would work.  But, neither program or charter are really feasible for every couple/few weeks for work when it’s usually just me or one other.  

[Fat Bastard 600]

If it floats, flies, or fucks, it’s better to rent than to buy. 

[HOOKEM4 5,036]

Well it's a good thing I dont have jet money or I would be batting a cool .000

[Chewbacca 7,766]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:36 PM, Atxracer said:

What do you aficionados know about fractional options?  Currently looking at one flight but haven’t checked into net jets, etc.  Checking out one flight because a buddy of mine recommended it.  Unless you tell me otherwise from a safety standpoint, not interested in turbo props.  
 

Summary is, I really don’t have an interest in traveling commercial for awhile but would be nice to still travel for work a couple times a month (Probably no more than 2-3 hours each way on average).  I am in Austin and need to travel pretty much throughout various places in the continental US and sometimes Grand Cayman.  
 

Do you guys that are in “the know” have recommendations on which options are the best deal?

Fractional is a lot more expensive than chartering, but it's more convenient.  It's not a short term thing, though.  You're buying a share of an aircraft.

 

Sounds like chartering might be more your thing if this is just until COVID settles down.

[Atxracer 797]

Totally agreed. I was asking the wrong question. I was more interested in “programs” but then realized chartering is the route to go for my circumstances.  

[ztejas 43,411]

On 5/24/2020 at 4:36 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Please tell me you fly wearing a tan leisure suit, with a briefcase handcuffed to your wrist. I need this to be true.