Mail In Voting

[Ted Lange 16048]

Seems like it could use its on thread. 
 

Traditional wisdom is the more people that vote, the worse for Rs.  The president keeps complaining about fraud, when in fact the last party to get busted for blatant ballot harvesting was the Rs in North Carolina.   My default is to expand vote by mail, but I admit to being somewhat worried, mainly for the simple appearance of possible illegal voting, and part because the Rs have a recent history of ballot harvesting.  

[tx 3 putt 76371]

voter fraud (by way of mail in ballots) is focused on local races. the people that work this scam give zero fucks who's president of the united states but they do care who's handing out all those country and isd contracts. in a smaller texas county, a 100 votes is enough to sway an election for county commissioner or a school board position (fat budgets)  

 

[Ted Lange 16048]

Didnt consider that.  I can’t reconcile why some people are allowed to vote by mail,  but at the same time expanding it would be a bad idea.

Maybe one possibility in this would be a compromise.   No 100% mail in, but majorly expand voting locations and make the day of vote on a Saturday instead of a Tuesday.  

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ted Lange

[Pancho 44475]

Voter fraud overall—in person and mail in—just isn’t really a thing.  It’s a scare tactic.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-latest-voter-fraud-misinformation/

Quote

Election experts told us that Trump is exaggerating the amount of voter fraud via mail-in ballots. They say it is more common than in-person voting fraud (something that Trump has repeatedly distorted), but still rare.

“Election fraud committed with absentee ballots is more prevalent than in person voting but it is still rare,” Richard L. Hasen, a professor of law and political science at the University of California, Irvine School of Law, and author of “The Voting Wars,” told us via email. “States can and do take steps to minimize the risks, especially given the great benefits of convenience — and now safety — from the practice.”

In an op-ed published in the Washington Post, Hasen cited a database created by News21, a national investigative reporting project that tracks cases of election fraud. News21 found absentee-ballot ballot fraud was the most prevalent type of election fraud, comprising about 24% of reported prosecutions between 2000 and 2012.

“But the total number of cases was just 491 — during a period in which literally billions of votes were cast,” Hasen wrote. “While certain pockets of the country have seen their share of absentee-ballot scandals, problems are extremely rare in the five states that rely primarily on vote-by-mail, including the heavily Republican state of Utah.”

 

With that said, if someone believes it’s their constitutional right to get a haircut, then it’s my constitutional right to vote by mail in a global pandemic.

[pyrohornIII 4809]

Most small counties don't have many, if any, D candidates.  Where you would have the problem you cite for county offices could be in the primary or any R subsequent runoff.   

But most small counties are also pushing their local elections, city, school, etc off until November, so what you are stating could be an issue.  These small red counties won't make much difference for president, but they could be significant in Cornyn's race and state seats, including judges.  

[Aqua Buddha 14510]

Oregon has been doing this for years.  In 2016 they had 10 cases of fraud out of 2M votes.

It’s funny that this wasn’t an issue a month ago.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

Anyone can vote by mail and election day is a federal holiday 

[Nuge 1962]

I vote by mail in Washington state, like everyone else. No issues.

[pyrohornIII 4809]

59 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Didnt consider that.  I can’t reconcile why some people are allowed to vote by mail,  but at the same time expanding it would be a bad idea.

Maybe one possibility in this would be a compromise.   No 100% mail in, but majorly expand voting locations and make the day of vote on a Saturday instead of a Tuesday.  

There is talk about it being reverse age discrimination.  Which makes sense.   It's really whacked right now, because the longer this drags on, the less time there is to develop a less corruptible system.  Therein will lie Trump's excuse of voter fraud, which he's already pushing.   This November election is probably the most important I will ever vote in.  You'd really like to break in a new program on lesser elections, but we might not get that opportunity.  Educating our voters how to apply, and then the new process of voting will be paramount.   Plus you throw in the red herrings the Republicans will toss in, like they did the fake census...just to further confuse people.    

A big nightmare for any county election administrator will be trying to accommodate everything.  Full out VBM, Early voting, Polling places and curbside (a real pain in the ass if you have inclement weather) is a lot to ask of their staff.  Plus all the extra money involved to staff VBM.  Plus the postage costs for both the county and the voter.   Actually the TDP has been sending applications for VBM for several cycles now, but then the county still sends, because they are legally liable to do so. 

One thing they could try in some locales is voting in time blocks set aside by your address.   But since it's a workday, that's hard to do.  More locations is hard too, but if you had county wide voting, where you could vote at any location, that would help considerably to reduce the load on the more populous precincts.   

When you allow people to vote anywhere in the county, then you have to be able to identify the precinct each voter is in and hook them up with the right ballots for local and state races.   So if you live in Skunk Hollow, but vote in Bullneck, then you get the right ballots with Skunk Hollow ISD candidates.  Same issue with VBM, because each one of those outgoing envelopes needs to have not only the proper ballots, but just ONE of each ballot.  

Like I said there's a lot to be worked through, and Paxton dragging his feet is just going to make the process worse.   That's there plan, to delay this long enough to make it untenable for Texas. 

The Saturday vote would be a great idea.  Or a holiday.  

Edited May 22, 2020 by pyrohornIII

[GhostOfTomJoad 9307]

5 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Anyone can vote by mail and election day is a federal holiday 

Any eligible voter can vote by mail and election day is a federal holiday. 

And I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm assuming that was your intent.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by GhostOfTomJoad

[Continental Op 3934]

No solution to getting around voting by mail is going to include opening more polling places because the people who don't want voting by mail want people not to vote. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

10 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Any eligible voter can vote by mail and election day is a federal holiday. 

And I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm assuming that was your intent.

 

Yes, thank you 

[Brandywine 1313]

The R's must be really scared. 

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

Haven’t you heard?  USPS will be defunct before November in order to suppress votes. 

[Buzzrock 14871]

I have to think mail in voting is hideously inefficient and prone to much more human error. Just think of the manpower required to manually count that many votes.

It could also open up the possibility of early numbers being leaked and affecting voter turnout.

I’m of the opinion that it should take a little effort to vote if one is able. It’s one of the great privileges of living here. People stand in line for hours for bbq, ffs.

I also believe voter fraud is largely a non issue.

[tantric superman 4667]

Just now, Buzzrock said:

I have to think mail in voting is hideously inefficient and prone to much more human error. Just think of the manpower required to manually count that many votes.

It could also open up the possibility of early numbers being leaked and affecting voter turnout.

I’m of the opinion that it should take a little effort to vote if one is able. It’s one of the great privileges of living here. People stand in line for hours for bbq, ffs.

I also believe voter fraud is largely a non issue.

If it's a non-issue, then it should be as easy as possible for the voter. 

My solution to how difficult it is to deal with mail in ballots.

1)Collect mail in ballots.  2)Don't scan them until voting day. 3) On voting day scan them.

[TexArcher 37508]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

If it's a non-issue, then it should be as easy as possible for the voter. 

My solution to how difficult it is to deal with mail in ballots.

1)Collect mail in ballots.  2)Don't scan them until voting day. 3) On voting day scan them.

But then how will Republicans rig the voting machines?

[tx 3 putt 76371]

12 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

But then how will Republicans Russian hackers rig the voting machines?

1234

[Biff Tannen 45494]

44 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Haven’t you heard?  USPS will be defunct before November in order to suppress votes. 

Explain why you think this is far fetched, assuming you do. If not, I retract my comment. 

[pyrohornIII 4809]

Especially now that trump has his own stooge as "acting" head.  

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2659]

The idea that "it should take some effort to vote" is dripping with privilege. I wish there were an egalitarian way to make sure people knew who and what the fuck they were voting for, but that's a separate issue. For so many blue-collar and/or inner-city residents, voting can be a herculean effort, and the Rs want to keep it that way. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6554]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

I have to think mail in voting is hideously inefficient and prone to much more human error. Just think of the manpower required to manually count that many votes.

It could also open up the possibility of early numbers being leaked and affecting voter turnout.

I’m of the opinion that it should take a little effort to vote if one is able. It’s one of the great privileges of living here. People stand in line for hours for bbq, ffs.

I also believe voter fraud is largely a non issue.

I get your point that it should take effort but during a possible pandemic (second wave) it would make sense to make sure everybody has the opportunity to vote by mail if it makes it safer for our population to do so.  I can’t believe the Republicans and Fox News are actually making “mail in voting” a bad thing.  It’s not and probably safer than voting at the machines that can easily be hacked.  Then again I expect Trump to start putting up trial balloons to change the constitution to allow “Poll Taxes” again so I still have that to look forward to in the next few months.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Beantown Express 2.0

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

I’m all for mail voting. How do they prevent people from mailing in a ballot then showing up to vote in person? I’m sure there are creative ways..

[pacman 7329]

In the 2016 US Presidential election, approximately 33 million ballots were cast via mailed out ballots (about 25% of all ballots cast

 

 

another Trump head fake to distract the nation

 

his sycophant base falls for it as usual 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6554]

1 minute ago, pacman said:

In the 2016 US Presidential election, approximately 33 million ballots were cast via mailed out ballots (about 25% of all ballots cast

 

 

another Trump head fake to distract the nation

 

his sycophant base falls for it as usual 

How many of those 33 million ballots were cast by Republicans who after hearing this on Fox News will start yelling at the top of their lungs how wrong mail in voting is and its all voter fraud.

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[Aqua Buddha 14510]

8 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I’m all for mail voting. How do they prevent people from mailing in a ballot then showing up to vote in person? I’m sure there are creative ways..

We do it right now with absentee ballots.

[Longhorn 145]

10 hours ago, TexArcher said:

But then how will Republicans rig the voting machines?

PM this Democrat and ask how he did it.

After stuffing ballots, Demuro then used his authority as an elections judge to certify the fraudulent election results, according to his indictment, which was unsealed Thursday. (RELATED: RNC SURVEY: Majority Of Voters Believe Mail-In Ballots Cause Election Fraud)

Demuro “served as a Committee Person for the Democratic Party and the Democratic Chairman of Ward 39a in the City of Philadelphia,” according to the indictment.

“Demuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he thought the coast was clear. This is utterly reprehensible conduct,” U.S. Attorney William McSwain said in a Justice Department press release Thursday.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/21/philadelphia-elections-judge-pleads-guilty-election-fraud/

 

[Guest Lobo]

What demographics are most prone to getting Covid-19?  African American and Hispanic, yes?  Just fucking fact. 

What age group is most prone to getting Covid-19?  65+, yes?  Just fucking fact.

What demographics tend to staff the polling locations in African American and Hispanic neighborhoods/precints?  African American and Hispanic, yes? 

What age group tends to staff the polling locations at every neighborhood/precinct?  65+, yes? 

What happens if a bunch of Blacks, Hispanics, and elderly folks are rightfully afraid to staff polling locations?  Skeleton Crews with long-ass lines, some locations being closed  entirely, and a plummet of voter turnout as a result.  Who could that possibly benefit?  

You guys need a fucking slide rule to figure this out?  Voting by mail is the distraction.  The real con is We simply don't have the humans necessary to staff all our usual polling places at capacity because they're all in the at-risk groups.  Entire voting precincts will be shut down entirely because of no staff in minority areas.  And predominantly white neighborhoods will have locations with half the usual staff and lines measured in hours, not minutes.  What would have have been a 140mm person election turnout this year will likely be 110mm instead.  They'll lose the VBM battle, but Trump has his sights on something much bigger.  He can't scare you into not voting, but he can scare the person that asks for your signature or ID into not coming into work.  To replace that person this late in the game, why that'd be election fraud on the part of the Democrats, wouldn't it?  

You're not thinking nearly immoral enough yet folks.  You can't vote for Biden if your polling place was locked, not by Trump, but by what appears to be frightened old people. 

[Macanudo 12926]

10 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

The idea that "it should take some effort to vote" is dripping with privilege. I wish there were an egalitarian way to make sure people knew who and what the fuck they were voting for, but that's a separate issue. For so many blue-collar and/or inner-city residents, voting can be a herculean effort, and the Rs want to keep it that way. 

I thought the exact same thing when I read his post.  I mean, let's just go back to only letting the white Male, landed gentry vote and be done with this nonsense.

But in all seriousness the resistance to this is from small minded (mostly Republican party) idiots who want to suppress voting. I'm 100% behind mail in voting to make it easier for EVERYONE  to vote.

And this comes from a white Male who would qualify under my farcical suggestion.

[Longhorn 145]

55 minutes ago, Lobo said:

What demographics are most prone to getting Covid-19?  African American and Hispanic, yes?  Just fucking fact. 

What age group is most prone to getting Covid-19?  65+, yes?  Just fucking fact.

What demographics tend to staff the polling locations in African American and Hispanic neighborhoods/precints?  African American and Hispanic, yes? 

What age group tends to staff the polling locations at every neighborhood/precinct?  65+, yes? 

What happens if a bunch of Blacks, Hispanics, and elderly folks are rightfully afraid to staff polling locations?  Skeleton Crews with long-ass lines, some locations being closed  entirely, and a plummet of voter turnout as a result.  Who could that possibly benefit?  

You guys need a fucking slide rule to figure this out?  Voting by mail is the distraction.  The real con is We simply don't have the humans necessary to staff all our usual polling places at capacity because they're all in the at-risk groups.  Entire voting precincts will be shut down entirely because of no staff in minority areas.  And predominantly white neighborhoods will have locations with half the usual staff and lines measured in hours, not minutes.  What would have have been a 140mm person election turnout this year will likely be 110mm instead.  They'll lose the VBM battle, but Trump has his sights on something much bigger.  He can't scare you into not voting, but he can scare the person that asks for your signature or ID into not coming into work.  To replace that person this late in the game, why that'd be election fraud on the part of the Democrats, wouldn't it?  

You're not thinking nearly immoral enough yet folks.  You can't vote for Biden if your polling place was locked, not by Trump, but by what appears to be frightened old people. 

I think we need to start early voting options in this country instead of making 100% of the country show up on only one day to vote. 

[bernorange 8348]

In this day and age, it's just stupid that we don't have a mail in ballot system that allows voters to verify that their votes were recorded correctly.  Ballots should be scanned and reviewable online. 

[Guest Lobo]

16 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

I think we need to start early voting options in this country instead of making 100% of the country show up on only one day to vote. 

To be fair to Texas Republicans, early voting here is a fucking breeze for the most part.  Two full business weeks for all even-year elections (sans Weekends), and a full business week (and a Saturday I think) for the week run-up to primaries/runoffs/special elections.  But think about how much staffing that requires, 12 hours a day for 12 election days.  With a minimum of 3 people at each polling location, the vast majority of whom are over 65 years of age.  There's your long game, the virus scared your staffers, the staffers locked you out, not Trump.  

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 hour ago, Longhorn said:

PM this Democrat and ask how he did it.

After stuffing ballots, Demuro then used his authority as an elections judge to certify the fraudulent election results, according to his indictment, which was unsealed Thursday. (RELATED: RNC SURVEY: Majority Of Voters Believe Mail-In Ballots Cause Election Fraud)

Demuro “served as a Committee Person for the Democratic Party and the Democratic Chairman of Ward 39a in the City of Philadelphia,” according to the indictment.

“Demuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he thought the coast was clear. This is utterly reprehensible conduct,” U.S. Attorney William McSwain said in a Justice Department press release Thursday.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/21/philadelphia-elections-judge-pleads-guilty-election-fraud/

 

 

From the AP reporting, it says this was for primary elections.  I don't know the rules in Philly.  Was he voting in the D primary and fraudulently pumping up some Dems over others?  Or was he voting in the general for Ds over Rs?  There is quite the difference.

Quote

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A former judge of elections in Philadelphia has admitted accepting cash bribes to tamper with the results of the city’s primary elections from 2014-2016, federal prosecutors announced Thursday.

https://apnews.com/4caee44c73736e54fdbf4ab052c52fe2

[lemonlime 5503]

3 hours ago, Longhorn said:

PM this Democrat and ask how he did it.

After stuffing ballots, Demuro then used his authority as an elections judge to certify the fraudulent election results, according to his indictment, which was unsealed Thursday. (RELATED: RNC SURVEY: Majority Of Voters Believe Mail-In Ballots Cause Election Fraud)

Demuro “served as a Committee Person for the Democratic Party and the Democratic Chairman of Ward 39a in the City of Philadelphia,” according to the indictment.

“Demuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he thought the coast was clear. This is utterly reprehensible conduct,” U.S. Attorney William McSwain said in a Justice Department press release Thursday.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/21/philadelphia-elections-judge-pleads-guilty-election-fraud/

 

What does this have to do with mail in voting?  The article you posted, and even in the quoted section, says that "Demuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he though the coast was clear."  This article is about someone accused of fraud with in person voting.

[Biff Tannen 45494]

I believe that's what you called getting pantsed.

[tantric superman 4667]

I realize it's not on point, and comparing voting by mail and the experience of blacks in the south is hyperbolic, but it reminds me that in all the greatness of Caro's Johnson biography, his introduction to Master of the Senate is one of his most beautiful passages.  I tried to see if I could quote it here but he closest I can get is the "Look inside" link on Amazon.  He talks about the experience of one black person's attempt to vote in the South, and the writing is exquisite.  I think I was driving in east Texas at the time, and listening to Master of the Senate in the car.

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Senate-Years-Lyndon-Johnson-ebook/dp/B002IPZBPO#reader_B002IPZBPO

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13412]

Obviously there are chain of custody potential problems when it comes to mail in balloting. however that doesn't mean that they can't be mitigated.

• Raise the jail sentences if you're caught knowingly participating in voter fraud. That political operative in NC still hasn't gone to trial for his 2018 fraud.  FYI, voter fraud and ignorant voting mistakes are different.
• Hold the candidate legally responsible if someone on the campaign participates in fraud. I would say that includes potential jail time for the candidate but only depending on whether they had a reasonable understanding it could occur.
• Create a method to personally validate your recorded mail-in vote. I don't know how this would work and it could create other negative consequences but we need this regardless of mail-in or voting in person.

Finally we need to work towards voting over the internet. We all perform much more important personal transactions that we trust and have the ability to verify they occurred correctly. Why not something as simple as voting?

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Finally we need to work towards voting over the internet. We all perform much more important personal transactions that we trust and have the ability to verify they occurred correctly. Why not something as simple as voting?

If we could vote from our smart phones, voter participation rate would probably top 80%.  It will not be allowed as long as Rs have a say.

[TriStone 1724]

16 hours ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Anyone can vote by mail and election day is a federal holiday 

I've always believed this is how it should be, a full-on federal bank holiday.  Give everyone the day off on election day AND the day after so everyone can stay up late watching the returns if they want to.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Obviously there are chain of custody potential problems when it comes to mail in balloting. however that doesn't mean that they can't be mitigated.

• Raise the jail sentences if you're caught knowingly participating in voter fraud. That political operative in NC still hasn't gone to trial for his 2018 fraud.  FYI, voter fraud and ignorant voting mistakes are different.
• Hold the candidate legally responsible if someone on the campaign participates in fraud. I would say that includes potential jail time for the candidate but only depending on whether they had a reasonable understanding it could occur.
• Create a method to personally validate your recorded mail-in vote. I don't know how this would work and it could create other negative consequences but we need this regardless of mail-in or voting in person.

Finally we need to work towards voting over the internet. We all perform much more important personal transactions that we trust and have the ability to verify they occurred correctly. Why not something as simple as voting?

And my debit card number has been stolen three times in the last two years.

And Russian hackers can break into anywhere.

Heck no on internet voting.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13412]

7 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

And my debit card number has been stolen three times in the last two years.

And Russian hackers can break into anywhere.

Heck no on internet voting.

How do you think votes are tabulated today? on chalkboards? And your debit card # is more easily stolen by a clerk with your card in their hand as opposed to someone hacking into the bank.

Hacking is a definite concern with implementing internet voting. and we shouldn't leave it to 1000s of communities to decide for themselves how to manage security. But yes, a system could be made that lessens the possibility of hacking. Especially if you add the ability for you to validate your vote afterwards. 

I'm not arguing that internet voting should be turned on for November. We're 100% not ready for it now but we could be in the near future.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

Just signed up for an application: https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/vrrequest/bbm.asp?fbclid=IwAR2g8HpZUkLWah1sdv8ygNbUkDcZIrqj2zUz161_UYlFY83qJ_5RyEH8d64

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Just signed up for an application: https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/vrrequest/bbm.asp?fbclid=IwAR2g8HpZUkLWah1sdv8ygNbUkDcZIrqj2zUz161_UYlFY83qJ_5RyEH8d64

Cool, me too.  Curious how this is all gonna work.

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

I don't feel like anyone is prepared for what they are setting up.  They are trying to foment civil war, plain and simple.  There is going to be violence after the election and perhaps for many years.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

I'm wondering who here opposes this and why. I genuinely would like to understand why anyone would have an issue mail-in voting. Seriously, convince me. Good luck and godspeed.

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't feel like anyone is prepared for what they are setting up.  They are trying to foment civil war, plain and simple.  There is going to be violence after the election and perhaps for many years.

I have no problem with this

 

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

We are way past eye batting time.  This appeals to stupid people, and offends intelligent people.  Fuck this media guy for making it about "eye batting".  Goddamn twitter -- all it is is about the reaction of the tweeter.  Who gives a fuck? 

[Longhorn 145]

8 hours ago, lemonlime said:

What does this have to do with mail in voting?  The article you posted, and even in the quoted section, says that "Demuro fraudulently stuffed the ballot box by literally standing in a voting booth and voting over and over, as fast as he could, while he though the coast was clear."  This article is about someone accused of fraud with in person voting.

See post #28 and take a few seconds to see what was being responded to. Then check back in.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

if you don't support mail in voting during a pandemic then you don't actually love democracy