Donald Trump 2018

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

https://thefederalist.com/2018/05/22/james-clapper-just-lied-again-about-his-previous-lies-about-nsa-spying/

He also was involved in the faulty Iraq WMD intelligence assessment.

 

And before you mention it, yes I realize that he is one of many people still involved with intelligence that took part in that.  Some like Bolton were brought back by Trump.  I think that’s shameful.

There’s other examples, but suffice it to say Clapper is one of the main reasons that the American people do not trust the intelligence community.

I get it. You don’t like Clapper and you have examples for why you don’t trust him. The Lying Liar piece from The Federalist is hot garbage btw. 

However, considering Ad Hominem is an obvious weak position, what about his position do you take issue with?

It boils down to whether trump’s victory was legitimate or not. Clapper has indicated it wasn’t legitimate.  He was DNI during the period of Russian attacks on our democracyand trump campaign’s probable conspiring. Imagine the Sooners beating us but then we realized they cheated. That win would be removed from the books

[Chrispy 132]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That's compulsion. It's a choice made under duress.

However you choose to frame it, the decision is up to them. All of the hysterics are unnecessary. 

[Chrispy 132]

8 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Trumpkin, right? That explains your dimness 

I’m not sure, what’s a Trumpkin? 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Chrispy said:

However you choose to frame it, the decision is up to them. All of the hysterics are unnecessary. 

That's good to know.  The government should impose all sorts of punishments for people who choose not to give up their firearms.   No constitutional problems because it'll be their choice whether to comply or accept the punishment. 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Chrispy said:

However you choose to frame it, the decision is up to them. All of the hysterics are unnecessary. 

And it's still under compulsion.

[Chrispy 132]

5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

That's good to know.  The government should impose all sorts of punishments for people who choose not to give up their firearms.   No constitutional problems because it'll be their choice whether to comply or accept the punishment. 

So you’re telling me these individuals can’t express their dissatisfaction off the clock? Of course they can, and without the fear of reprisal. You’re being silly. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Chrispy

[Chrispy 132]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And it's still under compulsion.

We’ll have to disagree on this one. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

The NFL kneeling issue and Trump's taking advantage of it is perhaps the best illustration out there of how and why Trump grifted his way into being president. He correctly recognizes it as a lightning rod of trumpkin grievances and takes full advantage even though its really just a bunch of inconsequential bullshit. Here's the thoughts racing through the typical trumpkin head:

Here you have rich, black, "thugs," i.e. a bunch of ungrateful, "stupid nigge_rs" who don't really deserve the shitload of money they are being paid (which one year salary also happens to be 10-30 years of pay for a typical Trumpkin);

kneeling for and disrespecting "the flag" which oh by the way a bunch of God fearing white folk fought to protect (no thanks to the "thugs");

and here come Trump and fan boy Pence to tweet about, stand up to, and walk out if necessary if these ungrateful "thugs" dare to disrespect "the flag" which really means they dare to disrespect YOU and your great old ass whiteness who fought and died for 'Merica. Well maybe not the dying part but you get the point.

"The Wall," "The Hordes" The Thugs" "The Animals" "The Muslim Ban", etc, etc etc. 

Its all just a bunch of race baiting, scaring the white Fox News worshiping olds. Sadly it works. Trump knows that all too well. 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Chrispy said:

So you’re telling me these individuals can’t express their dissatisfaction off the clock? Of course they can, and without and fear of reprisal. You’re being silly. 

No, I'm telling you that the president has coerced a private entity into compelling speech from its employees.  You're being obtuse. 

[DanTheHorn 4925]

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I get it. You don’t like Clapper and you have examples for why you don’t trust him. The Lying Liar piece from The Federalist is hot garbage btw. 

However, considering Ad Hominem is an obvious weak position, what about his position do you take issue with?

It boils down to whether trump’s victory was legitimate or not. Clapper has indicated it wasn’t legitimate.  He was DNI during the period of Russian attacks on our democracyand trump campaign’s probable conspiring. Imagine the Sooners beating us but then we realized they cheated. That win would be removed from the books

To continue with your analogy.  Lets say a laser was shined in the kickers eyes by a friend of the coaches son at end of the game and the kick was missed and we consider that cheating. Oklahoma would claim that the coaches son was in the crowd and without intention happened to be sitting next to a friend that shined a laser. Also, we could not really determine if the field goal was missed due to the laser. In addition, if you were Rudy you would say what is the big deal all coaches ask friends with lasers to bring them to the game and shine them in kicker's eyes, that is not cheating.

[David Dennison 18860]

2 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

We’ll have to disagree on this one. 

I don't think we disagree. I think you're just OK with it.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

9 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

I’m not sure, what’s a Trumpkin? 

I don't know who the guy in your av is.  But he's definitely a Trumpkin.  Together we can solve this riddle. 

[Chrispy 132]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I don't think we disagree. I think you're just OK with it.

I don’t see someone being given the opportunity  to avoid penalty as compelled speech, no. 

[Native Horn 3504]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Well, I guess we have to start paying attention to who stays in the locker room to disgrace the flag.

Yep.  This is really no different than kneeling on the field.  Lists will be made of "those people" who don't come out to honor the flag.  

What I wish for is that entire teams refuse to come out of the locker room for the Anthem.  Hey, the new rules allow it, right?  I think that would be an even larger statement than a few players kneeling on the sideline.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

To continue with your analogy.  Lets say a laser was shined in the kickers eyes by a friend of the coaches son at end of the game and the kick was missed and we consider that cheating. Oklahoma would claim that the coaches son was in the crowd and without intention happened to be sitting next to a friend that shined a laser. Also, we could not really determine if the field goal was missed due to the laser. In addition, if you were Rudy you would say what is the big deal all coaches ask friends with lasers to bring them to the game and shine them in kicker's eyes, that is not cheating.

Yes, Rudy has moved the goal post.

what if there was a meeting between Oklahoma coaches/staff with the laser pointer kid ahead of the game. Then later the OK staff said the meeting was about concessions. But an email came out and it was about ways the kid could help OK win

[Chrispy 132]

4 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

No, I'm telling you that the president has coerced a private entity into compelling speech from its employees.  You're being obtuse. 

I think you’re giving Trump too much credit on this matter. The NFL cares about money and they were terrified of alienating a large portion of their fanbase. 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Chrispy said:

I think you’re giving Trump too much credit on this matter. The NFL cares about money and they were terrified of alienating a large portion of their fanbase. 

Those people are dying.

[Hank Kingsley 20936]

Hope all of y'all that still attend NFL games RESPECT THE FLAG during the anthem.  Don't talk, sit down, or do anything that someone else will find disrespectful while the anthem is being sung.  Because some other fan will call you out on it.  Trump/Pence have instilled and celebrated this authoritarian attitude, and it will have an effect in the stands as well. 

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Continues to amaze me that people so successful in life can be so fucking stupid when it comes to common sense shit.

Gonna be fun when a group of players come out and hold up a sign saying something like "Police Kill Black People" while STANDING for the anthem.  This is only going to make the players more bold.

 

There's already owners on the record saying they'll eat the fine for the players.  It doesn't make a shit.  When Trump gets his ass convicted and has his already dogshit name smeared even further, they should wear a "Lulz" patch on their shoulder pads.  Trump didn't 'win' shit. 

The right wing media really has managed to make those on the far left look reasonable.  Mind boggling. 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Hope all of y'all that still attend NFL games RESPECT THE FLAG during the anthem.  Don't talk, sit down, or do anything that someone else will find disrespectful while the anthem is being sung.  Because some other fan will call you out on it.  Trump/Pence have instilled and celebrated this authoritarian attitude, and it will have an effect in the stands as well. 

I just go to the concourse and mill around if I don't feel like falling in line. No one cares.

[jimmyjazz 45948]

Being given a directive by one's employer is one thing.  Being given a directive by one's employer at the behest of POTUS is another thing entirely.

"Choice" doesn't matter when it's A or B.  The government cannot compel us to choose between one of two personal expressions.  The government cannot compel us to cease any (legal) expression, with a few obvious exceptions.

[Chrispy 132]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Hope all of y'all that still attend NFL games RESPECT THE FLAG during the anthem.  Don't talk, sit down, or do anything that someone else will find disrespectful while the anthem is being sung.  Because some other fan will call you out on it.  Trump/Pence have instilled and celebrated this authoritarian attitude, and it will have an effect in the stands as well. 

Well, I sure as hell hope you’re wrong. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

6 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

I think you’re giving Trump too much credit on this matter. The NFL cares about money and they were terrified of alienating a large portion of their fanbase. 

The First Amendment doesn't have an exception for "unless maybe someone would have shut down your speech anyway."

[Tuco 5076]

My big question is whether this was developed with the players' union.  If it was with the players' consent to a compromise, I don't see it as a big issue. If it wasn't, things might get interesting. 

[David Dennison 18860]

This is going to be a PR disaster for the NFL when there are teams whose players mostly remain in the locker room.

[VRHorn 718]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

My big question is whether this was developed with the players' union.  If it was with the players' consent to a compromise, I don't see it as a big issue. If it wasn't, things might get interesting. 

"The NFL Players Association said in a statement that it will review the policy and "challenge any aspect" that is inconsistent with the CBA."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23582533/nfl-owners-approve-new-national-anthem-policy

[Hank Kingsley 20936]

13 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

I think you’re giving Trump too much credit on this matter. The NFL cares about money and they were terrified of alienating a large portion of their fanbase. 

The main reason NFL fans are upset about the kneeling is because of DONALD FUCKING TRUMP.  If Dotard said these athletes had the right to protest, most of the anger would dissipate. He and Pence are directly responsible. 

I mean, look at these fucking goons. 

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Hank Kingsley

[The Royal We 3072]

Good Lord.  Dotard Jr. has to be one of the most punchable people in DC.  Probably 2nd behind Rafael Cruz.

[Dr. Teeth 5844]

The fact that they view keeping people from expressing their views as "win" tells you everything you need to know about them.

They should actually see this as a loss. They lose one of their bullshit dog whistles. At least they still have transgender bathrooms and M-13 left.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Sad thing is, the original message that spurned this BS "issue" is being lost in the shuffle. I can easily see this dividing teams more. Next year, if when a black man gets murdered by a cop, you might see a clear division when the black players decide to stay inside and the white players go onto the field. At the end of the day, I hope this "issue" resolves itself by a rule that teams do not come out on the field during the anthem like it was years ago. 

[Chrispy 132]

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The main reason NFL fans are upset about the kneeling is because of DONALD FUCKING TRUMP.  If Dotard said these athletes had the right to protest, most of the anger would dissipate. He and Pence are directly responsible. 

I mean, look at these fucking goons. 

 

I think they look ridiculous for taking a victory lap. Trump threw gas on the fire, but it was already burning. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This is going to be a PR disaster for the NFL when there are teams whose players mostly remain in the locker room.

I’d wager NFLers don’t see themselves as the protest the flag type.  90% weren’t kneeling.  They aren’t going to be staying in the locker room either. 

[David Dennison 18860]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

The fact that they view keeping people from expressing their views as "win" tells you everything you need to know about them.

They should actually see this as a loss. They lose one of their bullshit dog whistles. At least they still have transgender bathrooms and M-13 left.

One of these days black blood will be more important than white tears.

We aren't there yet.

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I’d wager NFLers don’t see themselves as the protest the flag type.  90% weren’t kneeling.  They aren’t going to be staying in the locker room either. 

We'll see in September.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[David Dennison 18860]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

He doesn't have absolute power. This is a silly tweet.

[GRHorn 105]

27 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I get it. You don’t like Clapper and you have examples for why you don’t trust him. The Lying Liar piece from The Federalist is hot garbage btw. 

However, considering Ad Hominem is an obvious weak position, what about his position do you take issue with?

It boils down to whether trump’s victory was legitimate or not. Clapper has indicated it wasn’t legitimate.  He was DNI during the period of Russian attacks on our democracyand trump campaign’s probable conspiring. Imagine the Sooners beating us but then we realized they cheated. That win would be removed from the books

I’m not sure what you find wrong with the Federalist blurb. I also don’t get why people get so blinded by Trump that they cape for James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey and any other leaders of the military and intelligence agencies whose actions have led to massive destruction, loss of lives, and waste of trillions of dollars. 

Clapper indicated that Trump’s victory is illegitimate.  That means almost nothing to me given his past.

But, but is Donald Trump trustworthy?  Of course not.  But, given the choice between these two untrustworthy sides I call it a draw and say that if you want to negate a national election then the bar is very fucking high for that.  Much higher than some vague implications by some figures who have poor track records and could just as easily be trying to cover their own ass.  Sorry, but I bet the overwhelming majority of Americans would agree with me.  Democrats and Never Trumpers are deluding themselves and should move to more standard ways to combat him than trying to negate his election. 

Ps the football analogy is stupid. 

[Tuco 5076]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He doesn't have absolute power. This is a silly tweet.

It's an election cycle tweet.  The answer to Trump's corruption is a Democratic Congress. 

[Hank Kingsley 20936]

8 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

I think they look ridiculous for taking a victory lap. Trump threw gas on the fire, but it was already burning. 

It's not a victory lap. They are taking credit.  And they will brag about it on the campaign trail. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He doesn't have absolute power. This is a silly tweet.

Really?  Who is going to stop him from doing whatever he wants tomorrow?

 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Really?  Who is going to stop him from doing whatever he wants tomorrow?

 

His DOJ is doing a pretty good job right now.

[Chrispy 132]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

It's not a victory lap. They are taking credit.  And they will brag about it on the campaign trail. 

 

Who cares? They’re wrong. 

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Really?  Who is going to stop him from doing whatever he wants tomorrow?

 

Really? The Senate minority. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

His DOJ is doing a pretty good job right now.

He is only restrained by his political calculations.

He’s a habitual line stepper.  

I’d say the courts are doing a pretty good job of checking some of his bullshit but not much.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

Which is exactly what Trump wants.  Trump doesn't give a flying fuck about players kneeling.  He found red meat for his sycophants and a great wedge issue.  Trump wants nothing more than for it to continue so he can tweet about those uppity football players.

Did he and Putin hit on the same strategy independently?

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He is only restrained by his political calculations.

He’s a habitual line stepper.  

I’d say the courts are doing a pretty good job of checking some of his bullshit but not much.

But they are checking him. His power is not absolute. I understand the politics of saying it is, but it isn't.

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He is only restrained by his political calculations.

He’s a habitual line stepper.  

I’d say the courts are doing a pretty good job of checking some of his bullshit but not much.

Jesus.  He literally has less power now than Obama did in his first 2 years.  Nothing close to “absolute power”.  So stupid. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

but it isn't.

Until it is.

There are many stops on the way to all out tyranny.

Trump is well on his way.  He’s subverted two branches of government already.

Schiff’s absolute power quote is technically inaccurate but it’s not too far off.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

if you ever need a litmus test for whether or not you are an out of touch old white dude, this is a great issue to test. if you give a shit about players kneeling during the anthem, congrats, you are an out of touch old white dude.

And if you're not wearing a flag pin on your lapel then you're not a patriot. Fuck the Constitution, don't you dare disrespect the flag. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Quote

“I guess I’d rather do the interview. It gets it over with it. It makes my client happy,” he said in an interview with The Washington Post. “The safe course you hear every lawyer say is don’t do the interview, and that’s easy to say in the abstract. That’s much harder when you have a client who is the president of the United States and wants to be interviewed.”

I'm now 100% convinced Rudy is trying to take Trump.