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Donald Trump 2018

TheFlyingBoat

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, staboner said:

what we are headed for in 2020 (somewhat in 2018) is an absolute mess. We of course will not magically come together as a society and work to harden the integrity of the election process, which is what of course we should do. Instead, we will just ignore, obfuscate and only care about our party - and hope for the best. Reminds me of school shootings. Good luck with America. The shitshow is gonna get real real.

A big fucking problem that I know some on here are tired of me bitching about, is that much of the election process is left up to the States and you have pieces of shit like Brian Kemp who, at the very least, are unwilling to do anything to improve election integrity and security because it doesn't benefit him or the GOP (at worst it actually will help him, but I won't make that argument). Each day I grow further in my dread that many of us will cast votes in states where we have no real verifiable way if any counts or voting rolls were deliberately changed by an outside actor.

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SInce y'all seem to be my clearinghouse for all things political, let me tell a story.  A couple of them, actually.  Three, if you want to be specific. When I was 14 I went with a family frien

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Slocum’s Razor

Newdoc

Newdoc 3468

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

Very satisfying evening.  It was my mother’s birthday.  My father is a Trumpkin (btw, I love that this was an auto fill choice), and I picked a fight with him.   My mom, who leans right but who I sense is disgusted by trump and has squashed any discussion of politics at family events, let it go for a while.  She normally shuts it down because she just wants to spend time with her grandchildren in peace.  My father became a coward when confronted with his indefensible positions, and  my mother tacitly approved.   #sortofwinning

Congratulations for "winning" and being satisfied sewing familial discord on your mom's birthday over politics.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90148

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Well this is awkward 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

THIRTEEN HOURS BEFORE Secretary of State Rex Tillerson learned from the presidential Twitter feed that he was being fired, he did something that President Donald Trump had been unwilling to do. Following a phone call with his British counterpart, Tillerson condemned a deadly nerve agent attack in the U.K., saying that he had “full confidence in the U.K.’s investigation and its assessment that Russia was likely responsible.”

White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders had called the attack “reckless, indiscriminate, and irresponsible,” but stopped short of blaming Russia, leading numerous media outlets to speculate that Tillerson was fired for criticizing Russia.

But in the months that followed his departure, press reports strongly suggested that the countries lobbying hardest for Tillerson’s removal were Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, both of which were frustrated by Tillerson’s attempts to mediate and end their blockade of Qatar. One report in the New York Times even suggested that the UAE ambassador to Washington knew that Tillerson would be forced out three months before he was fired in March.

The Intercept has learned of a previously unreported episode that stoked the UAE and Saudi Arabia’s anger at Tillerson and that may have played a key role in his removal. In the summer of 2017, several months before the Gulf allies started pushing for his ouster, Tillerson intervened to stop a secret Saudi-led, UAE-backed plan to invade and essentially conquer Qatar, according to one current member of the U.S. intelligence community and two former State Department officials, all of whom declined to be named, citing the sensitivity of the matter.

In the days and weeks after Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, and Bahrain cut diplomatic ties with Qatar and closed down their land, sea, and air borders with the country, Tillerson made a series of phone calls urging Saudi officials not to take military action against the country. The flurry of calls in June 2017 has been reported, but State Department and press accounts at the time described them as part of a broad-strokes effort to resolve tensions in the Gulf, not as an attempt by Tillerson to avert a Saudi-led military operation.

Tillerson made a series of phone calls urging Saudi officials not to take military action against Qatar. 

In the calls, Tillerson, who dealt extensively with the Qatari government as the CEO of Exxon Mobil, urged Saudi King Salman, then-Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir not to attack Qatar or otherwise escalate hostilities, the sources told The Intercept. Tillerson also encouraged Defense Secretary Jim Mattis to call his counterparts in Saudi Arabia to explain the dangers of such an invasion. Al Udeid Air Base near Doha, Qatar’s capital city, is the forward headquarters of U.S. Central Command and home to some 10,000 American troops.

Pressure from Tillerson caused Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto ruler of the country, to back down, concerned that the invasion would damage Saudi Arabia’s long-term relationship with the U.S. But Tillerson’s intervention enraged Mohammed bin Zayed, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi and effective ruler of that country, according to the U.S. intelligence official and a source close to the Emirati royal family, who declined to be identified, citing concerns about his safety.

Later that June, Mohammed bin Salman would be named crown prince, leapfrogging over his cousin to become next in line for the throne after his elderly father. His ascension signaled his growing influence over the kingdom’s affairs.

Qatari intelligence agents working inside Saudi Arabia discovered the plan in the early summer of 2017, according to the U.S. intelligence official. Tillerson acted after the Qatari government notified him and the U.S. embassy in Doha. Several months later, intelligence reporting by the U.S. and U.K. confirmed the existence of the plan.

The plan, which was largely devised by the Saudi and UAE crown princes and was likely some weeks away from being implemented, involved Saudi ground troops crossing the land border into Qatar, and, with military support from the UAE, advancing roughly 70 miles toward Doha. Circumventing the U.S. air base, Saudi forces would then seize the capital.

On June 20, State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert told reporters that Tillerson had “more than 20 calls and meetings with Gulf and other regional and intermediate actors,” including three phone calls and two meetings with Jubeir. “The more time goes by, the more doubt is raised about the actions taken by Saudi Arabia and the UAE,” she said.

A spokesperson for the State Department told The Intercept last week that “throughout the dispute, all parties have explicitly committed to not resort to violence or military action.” Tillerson, reached through a personal assistant, did not respond to interview requests.

Pentagon spokesperson Lt. Cmdr. Rebecca Rebarich told The Intercept that although Mattis meets regularly with the secretary of state, the “details and frequency of those meetings are confidential.”

“The Department of Defense has made clear that the persistent Gulf rift puts at risk mutual regional security priorities and has encouraged all parties seek resolution,” Rebarich said. “It is critical that the [Gulf Cooperation Council] recovers its cohesion as the proud Gulf nations return to mutual support through a peaceful resolution that provides for enhanced regional stability and prosperity.”

Spokespeople for the Saudi and UAE embassies did not respond to multiple requests for comment. A spokesperson for the Qatari embassy in D.C. also did not respond to interview requests from The Intercept. None of the information in this story was provided by Qatari government officials or the country’s paid public relations consultants.

THE INVASION PLAN raises questions about interventionist tendencies on the part of two of the U.S.’s closest allies and largest weapons clients. In recent years, both countries have demonstrated a willingness to use military force to reshape politics in the Gulf, intervening in Bahrain to suppress an Arab Spring uprising in 2011 and waging a three-year, U.S.-backed war that has devastated Yemen.

Robert Malley, president and CEO of Crisis Group and a former top Middle East adviser to President Barack Obama, said that since the summer of 2017, Qatari officials have consistently told him that their country had been threatened with invasion.

“There is little doubt that senior Qatari officials with whom I spoke were convinced — or at least acted as if they were convinced — that Saudi Arabia and the UAE had been planning a military attack on their country that was halted as a result of U.S. intervention,” Malley told The Intercept.

Tillerson’s attempts to de-escalate the conflict in the Gulf diverged from the signals sent by the White House. Trump offered a full-throated public endorsement of the blockade, tweeting that “perhaps this will be the beginning of the end to the horror of terrorism.” As Tillerson called on the Gulf countries to lift their embargo, Trump told reporters that “the nation of Qatar, unfortunately, has historically been a funder of terrorism at a very high level.”

According to one news report, Tillerson was frustrated with the White House for undercutting him, and his aides suspected that the line in Trump’s prepared Rose Garden remarks had been written by UAE Ambassador Yousef Al Otaiba, a powerful D.C. player who maintained “almost constant phone and email contact” with Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, according to Politico.

“Senior Qatari officials with whom I spoke were convinced — or at least acted as if they were convinced — that Saudi Arabia and the UAE had been planning a military attack on their country.”

At the time, Kushner was personally handling much of the administration’s diplomacy with the Gulf states, and the leaders of Saudi Arabia and the UAE were choosing to go through him instead of the U.S. defense or intelligence establishments. Kushner communicated directly with the crown princes of Saudi Arabia and the UAE using the encrypted messaging service WhatsApp.

Some Gulf watchers speculate that the incentive for the planned invasion may have been partly financial. Saudi Arabia’s “cradle to grave” welfare system relies on high oil prices, which plummeted in 2014 and have not fully recovered. Since the current king came to power in 2015, the country has spent more than a third of its $737 billion in reserves, and last year, the Saudi economy entered a painful recession. In response, the government has looked for ways to raise money, including by selling shares in the state-owned oil company, Saudi Aramco.

“It’s unsustainable,” said Bruce Riedel, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute and 30-year CIA officer, in a lecture last November. “In the three years since [King Salman] ascended to the throne, one third of Saudi Arabia’s reserves have already been spent. You don’t need to have an MBA from the Wharton school to figure out what that means six years from now.”

If the Saudis had succeeded in seizing Doha, they would potentially have been able to gain access to the country’s $320 billion sovereign wealth fund. In November of last year, months after the plan collapsed, the Saudi crown prince rounded up and detaineddozens of his relatives in the Ritz-Carlton Riyadh, forcing them to sign over billions in privately held assets. The government justified the detentions as a corruption crackdown, but it allowed the state to recoup billions in assets for government use.

Beginning in the fall of 2017, the crown princes in Riyadh and Abu Dhabi began lobbying the White House for Tillerson’s removal, according to the source close to the Emirati royal family and another source who is close to the Saudi royal family.

None of the current or former officials interviewed by The Intercept had direct insight into why Trump decided to fire Tillerson. But one source told The Intercept that the timing — a week before the Saudi crown prince arrived for a much-publicized visit to Washington — was significant. During that visit, MBS, as the crown prince is known, was set to discuss the Qatar crisis and future arms sales with the administration.

Four of the sources interviewed by The Intercept also pointed to an ongoing campaign by the UAE to try to provoke Qatar into escalating the crisis. Qatar has continued to complain about violations of its airspace by UAE aircraft, detailing its accusations in a letter to the U.N. earlier this year.

The UAE’s harassment of Qatar also includes crude public insults lodged by UAE leadership against the Qatari royal family. The jibes frequently emanate from the verified Twitter account of Hamad al Mazrouei, a high-level Emirati intelligence official and righthand man to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed. Mazrouei’s account frequently tweets sexually suggestive content directed at Mozah bint Nasser, the mother of the emir of Qatar. Just last week, Mazrouei tweeted a video of a man and woman – with Mazrouei and Sheikha Mozah’s faces photoshopped onto their bodies – doing a raunchy bump-and-grind.

The content and audacity of Mazrouei’s tweets have led to speculation in Qatari media that the account is actually controlled by the crown prince of Abu Dhabi himself.

 

Donald Trump did what a bunch of Arab Muslims from the Middle East told him to do and force out a government official.

That would be a funny line to run past your MAGA relatives.

 

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Newdoc

Newdoc 3468

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

These guys talking about the Russia threat while the biggest maligned influence threat is coming from inside the house!

It’s remarkable 

Despite the disturbing but ever present Russian interference with our country which is, and always has been really just to weaken us overall as a country, our own citizens are much more willing and adept to put self above anyone else in our own country.  The extremes of both parties and the fact they get reckless airplay/clicks for ad revenue is driving a Grand Canyon size wedge into our society.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105786

Posted
Posted

Re the fuel economy rule change: in listening to the EPA General Counsel speak right now (live), and he just characterized it as a “safety based” rule change - we can’t sacrifice safety in the name of fuel efficiency. And we need to ensure that there is consumer choice, they need safe choices.

Yes, he really said that.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45791

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Re the fuel economy rule change: in listening to the EPA General Counsel speak right now (live), and he just characterized it as a “safety based” rule change - we can’t sacrifice safety in the name of fuel efficiency. And we need to ensure that there is consumer choice, they need safe choices.

Yes, he really said that.

And he should be tarred and feathered with the rest of them.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45791

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Yeah their argument is that better fuel efficiency increases driving which leads to death and mayhem on the roads. 

30% of the country will think this is a genuinely good idea.  Of course most of them probably were happy that it pisses off libruhls anyway.  Yay air pollution!  Fuck health, own the libs!

 

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

I doubt it's even that much.  He lies every time he opens his mouth, even about things that anyone can see are lies.  And he gets away with it.  He probably thought what's a more basic need than voting?  Aha, food!  I'll talk about needing an ID to get food.  

The worst part is 30% of our country are going to start voluntarily showing their ID's when they're buying mountain dew at the local piggly wiggly. 

Clerk: "Sir, I don't need to see your ID"

Trumpkin: "YES YOU DO YOU STUPID LIBTARD, WHY DO YOU HATE TRUMP"  

Edited by Lagunamadre
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Js1

Js1 85988

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

I doubt it's even that much.  He lies every time he opens his mouth, even about things that anyone can see are lies.  And he gets away with it.  He probably thought what's a more basic need than voting?  Aha, food!  I'll talk about needing an ID to get food.  

I'm pretty sure he probably thinks every store is like Sam's or Costco and you have to show ID.  Like him and his staff go shop with the poors.

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HenryJames

HenryJames 66394

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Attacking the press...

Hostile to immigration...

Race purity as the basis of citizenship...

 

Mein god, someone tell the DNC they’re running the wrong platform 

There’s a historian dunking on Trump Jr in the comments section. 

 

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Goredho

Goredho 17525

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

But will they still show up and participate meaningfully for anyone BUT Trump?  Because what we have here is a cult of personality.  Other folks who have already tried to cater to that crowd haven't been nearly as successful (see Cruz).  The movement isn't about ideas, it's about a man.  When he's not there to lead it -- and yes, I see the threats about his kids, but they aren't him; they'll get some devotees for sure, but they aren't the showman that DJT is -- the movement will not have nearly the strength.

The people you saw in Tampa?  They used to live in a hole, surrounded by their own fetid waste of a life.  And when DJT is gone, most of them will return to that hole.  We should seal it shut.

I hope you are right.  I'm not sure we will know until the dotard-in-chief is out of office.  Trump has helped those people who used to dwell in their shit holes to climb out of it and get a taste of legitimacy.  Will they slink back to their fecal lairs when he exits?  Will they back an ideological heir with equal fervor now they know what is possible?

My hope is that the pain felt by Trump is such that no one would want to step up and attempt to take the torch from him.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Really good breakdown of Qanon.

It’s such a delicate subject for the MSM to cover because when you cover it, you’re only legitimizing it more.

But at some point this crazy ass shit is going to be a public health problem so you have to call it out early.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21345

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Yes, it's only a large percentage of the media that is the enemy of the people.  In other words, everyone except Fox News, Breitbart, InfoWars, etc.

Or anyone who doesn't idolize him. 

His minions are astonishing; you can't even disagree with his policies without becoming an enemy....hell, I've actually been called a libtard, which is amazeballs.  I'm actually losing friends over this.  I never thought I had friends who would let politics get in the way of friendship but it's happening.  Not by my choice and not Facebook friends; real friends.  Folks who I genuinely like and care for. 

And it's all because of  this orange baboon. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

But will they still show up and participate meaningfully for anyone BUT Trump?  Because what we have here is a cult of personality.  Other folks who have already tried to cater to that crowd haven't been nearly as successful (see Cruz).  The movement isn't about ideas, it's about a man.  When he's not there to lead it -- and yes, I see the threats about his kids, but they aren't him; they'll get some devotees for sure, but they aren't the showman that DJT is -- the movement will not have nearly the strength.

The people you saw in Tampa?  They used to live in a hole, surrounded by their own fetid waste of a life.  And when DJT is gone, most of them will return to that hole.  We should seal it shut.

Sure they will.  They aren't gonna turn out for Cruz, but they'll turn out for Kid Rock.  They'll turn out for the Duck Dynasty guy and Dog the Bounty Hunter too.  They might even turn out for Hannity, Judge Janine, or the new Rudy.  But a politician like Cruz or the old Rudy?  Nope.  Its a weird mix of celebrity worship and xenophobia, but you can't just be any xenophobic celebrity.  Scott Baio, for example, couldn't win.  Or Ted Nugent.  Or Trump's kids.

Edited by FondrenRoad
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45791

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Or anyone who doesn't idolize him. 

His minions are astonishing; you can't even disagree with his policies without becoming an enemy....hell, I've actually been called a libtard, which is amazeballs.  I'm actually losing friends over this.  I never thought I had friends who would let politics get in the way of friendship but it's happening.  Not by my choice and not Facebook friends; real friends.  Folks who I genuinely like and care for. 

And it's all because of  this orange baboon. 

You didn't want friends like that anyway.  You're better off.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45791

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Sure they will.  They aren't gonna turn out for Cruz, but they'll turn out for Kid Rock.  They'll turn out for the Duck Dynasty guy and Dog the Bounty Hunter too.  They might even turn out for Hannity, Judge Janine, or the new Rudy.  But a politician like Cruz or the old Rudy?  Nope.  Its a weird mix of celebrity worship and xenophobia, but you can't just be any xenophobic celebrity.  Scott Baio, for example, couldn't win.  Or Ted Nugent.  Or Trump's kids.

On NPR today they were talking about LeBron running for president.  GTFO with that shit. This fucking country.

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18334

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Attacking the press...

Hostile to immigration...

Race purity as the basis of citizenship...

 

Mein god, someone tell the DNC they’re running the wrong platform 

So much projection.  Everything accusation by the Trump administration applies more accurately to Trump than it does the target of the accusation.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

policies without becoming an enemy....hell, I've actually been called a libtard, which is amazeballs.  I'm actually losing friends over this.  I never thought I had friends who would let politics get in the way of friendship but it's happening.  Not by my choice and not Facebook friends; real friends.  Folks who I genuinely like and care for. 

 And it's all because of  this orange baboon. 

You probably aren’t going to believe me but these problems you’re having are by design.

It’s a widespread issue and the only cure takes a shitload of patience and control over your own emotions.  Don’t ever hate them, they are victims of an extremely powerful influence operation that was years in the making.  You’re not going to change their minds or bring them into the light any time soon.  The time you spend with them in the short term should be focused things you both find joy in.  

If politics comes up in conversations, steer the conversation away from Trump and move it towards common ground values you know they share with you.

America has been infected with a sickness that’s going to take some serious time to recover.

We aren’t going to get better while Trump is in the White House so it’s a waiting game and hope democracy prevails.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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