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Donald Trump 2018

TheFlyingBoat

By TheFlyingBoat
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M12BH
M12BH

SInce y'all seem to be my clearinghouse for all things political, let me tell a story.  A couple of them, actually.  Three, if you want to be specific. When I was 14 I went with a family frien

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, kevwun said:

I agree with you about the House, but the Senate has handled the investigation much more appropriately.

That is expected.  As a comedian (forgot who) said years ago, “The Senate is a night at the New York Philharmonic.  The House is the second game of a holiday weekend doubleheader in the bleachers of Wrigley Field.”

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I blame him for sleeping at the wheel on Russian active measures.  He pussyfooted around Putin way too much.

That take surprises me coming from you, given your views on Comey, who you think was in a no-win situation.  Obama truly was, because the harder he would have pushed back publicly on the meddling, the more he would have actually helped Russia destabilize our elections by undermining Trump's campaign and appearing to help Hillary's.  I mean, all this spy nonsense now is over nothing; imagine if Obama forcefully intervened during the campaign.   Plus he had McConnell and the GOP to obstructing him from within the government.   It was a reasonable call to think the voters would reject Trump and to let them do it before finding out the ugly truth.  Even though that ended up not happening, it was the only chance to thwart Russia's goals. 

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TornACL

TornACL 7698

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

That take surprises me coming from you, given your views on Comey, who you think was in a no-win situation.  Obama truly was, because the harder he would have pushed back publicly on the meddling, the more he would have actually helped Russia destabilize our elections by undermining Trump's campaign and appearing to help Hillary's.  I mean, all this spy nonsense now is over nothing; imagine if Obama forcefully intervened during the campaign.   Plus he had McConnell and the GOP to obstructing him from within the government.   It was a reasonable call to think the voters would reject Trump and to let them do it before finding out the ugly truth.  Even though that ended up not happening, it was the only chance to thwart Russia's goals. 

I interpreted his post to mean that Obama should done something much earlier than the 2016 elections. By the time Trump was running for office and all this shit was (allegedly) happening, it was too late. The patient had already been infected..

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I interpreted his post to mean that Obama should done something much earlier than the 2016 elections. By the time Trump was running for office and all this shit was (allegedly) happening, it was too late. The patient had already been infected..

I guess I'm not up on the timeline.  Did Obama know enough about it that early to make his response negligent? 

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted

Not sure if real, but it's being written up as real.  Did Cooley Law's finest really write a cease and desist letter to The Onion because Trump didn't really write the editorial in there?   If I was the NY Bar, I'd disbar him just for this.  There's got to be some "impugning the integrity of the bar" clause somewhere or something.

 

EqZ8zv1WU5s71kbXVYi87hDgARP4NyH2fSG9K6PR

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

That take surprises me coming from you, given your views on Comey, who you think was in a no-win situation.  Obama truly was, because the harder he would have pushed back publicly on the meddling, the more he would have actually helped Russia destabilize our elections by undermining Trump's campaign and appearing to help Hillary's.  I mean, all this spy nonsense now is over nothing; imagine if Obama forcefully intervened during the campaign.   Plus he had McConnell and the GOP to obstructing him from within the government.   It was a reasonable call to think the voters would reject Trump and to let them do it before finding out the ugly truth.  Even though that ended up not happening, it was the only chance to thwart Russia's goals. 

I agree Obama was in a no win situation in late 2016. By the time he realized how bad it was, it was already too late but he still pussyfooted by being indecisive on what specific action to take.  It’s like he was trying to talk himself out of different approaches to confront the threat.

My criticism is mostly based on what he didn’t do prior to 2016.  Almost all of Europe was screaming at him about Russian interference in democracies but he underestimated their capabilities, mostly due to hubris.  He thought, “no way the Russians can make a meaningful dent in our democracy with their bush league propaganda tactics.  America isn’t dumb enough to fall for that shit.  Russia influence campaigns only work on weak democracies.”  Well here we are.

I also blame him for going soft on the tech companies that were more than willing to enable the Russians to exploit their platforms to sow division and discord.

The Russians had the 2016 attack planned years in advance and parts of the IC community knew it at the time. Obama didn’t take it seriously, neither did most of us.  To be honest, we lacked imagination.  No one could imagine Donald Trump being POTUS in 2014...except the Kremlin.

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High Plains Drifter

High Plains Drifter 11035

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Not sure if real, but it's being written up as real.  Did Cooley Law's finest really write a cease and desist letter to The Onion because Trump didn't really write the editorial in there?   If I was the NY Bar, I'd disbar him just for this.  There's got to be some "impugning the integrity of the bar" clause somewhere or something.

 

EqZ8zv1WU5s71kbXVYi87hDgARP4NyH2fSG9K6PR

https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-has-finally-read-michael-cohen-s-2013-email-1826197533

 

(sorry for the formatting)

In a free press, journalists must expose the truth even if it upsets those in power. Our work often leads to significant backlash, and we at The Onion are no strangers to receiving threats of legal action. While we generally dismiss them as the baseless accusations they are, we recently found an old cease-and-desist letter from the presdent’s personal attorney that has caused us to reexamine this policy.Our editorial board would like to formally announce that we have finally read Michael Cohen’s 2013 email regarding his client Donald Trump and would like to discuss the matter further at his convenience.
 
In 2013, we published a piece by Mr. Trump titled “When You’re Feeling Low, Just Remember I’ll Be Dead In About 15 Or 20 Years.” Mr. Trump’s column, which was thoroughly vetted by our editors, simply endeavored to offer any of The Onion’s over 10 billion readers who had found themselves depressed about the state of the world a hopeful reminder that he would mentally and physically deteriorate and most likely die very soon.

Shortly thereafter, we apparently received an email from Mr. Cohen. Unfortunately, this email must have been improperly sorted by one of the Malaysian children who work in our mailroom, and was only discovered crumpled up under a pile of journalism awards in a remote corner of our offices last week. We read the email, and given Mr. Trump’s ascension to the presidency since its writing, we want to apologize for the delay and would be delighted to meet with Mr. Cohen in person—at the White House, perhaps?

In the spirit of transparency, here is Mr. Cohen’s letter, printed in full:

 

f3k8iltwcctyctqbaakm.jpgWhile we respectfully disagree with Mr. Cohen’s assessments, we understand that he is duty-bound to safeguard his client’s public image, a task he has no doubt fulfilled time and time again throughout his many years of dedicated service. With that in mind, we would like to, at long last, take him up on his request that we “contact immediately to discuss.”As Mr. Trump is now the leader of the free world, now is clearly the best time to resume our discussion. While it is generally not our policy to let outside forces affect our editorial decisions, the opportunity to gain a direct line to the president clearly presents a special case. We would be more than willing to accommodate Mr. Cohen’s wishes—provided we get something in return, of course. A quid pro quo, if you will.We believe the removal of the piece in exchange for influence over the president’s decision-making constitutes a more than reasonable deal, and we implore Mr. Cohen to meet with us without delay. We are happy to schedule around his upcoming court appearances.Mr. Cohen, in trying to reach you, we have called both phone numbers you provided us and even sent a courier to your New York offices. After receiving no reply, we can only assume you are trying to stonewall us. We are growing concerned that you have remained silent because you have been building a rock-solid case against us for the last five years, and in fact shudder to even imagine the detailed, thorough, and likely damning charges you would bring forward. But it does not have to be this way.In your letter, you implore us to “Guide yourself accordingly.” These enigmatic words have haunted us ever since. Although we assume no small risk in asking the president’s own accomplished and ingenious lawyer for help acquiring Oval Office influence, we believe that a partnership between us and Mr. Trump, shepherded by your steady hand, is the most fruitful way forward for the president, for The Onion, and for America.

We eagerly await your reply.

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TornACL

TornACL 7698

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Is average better or worse than mediocre?

Average > Mediocre of course ... although the current piece of human excrement in the white house is so terrible that by the time he leaves, he might have brought the historical average down equal to mediocre.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18853

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Yeah I'll take another viewpoint. Obama was an average to mediocre president. But compared to the piece of human excrement we have in the white house today, Obama looks like Abraham Lincoln.

Who do you believe was better in your lifetime?

Edited by David Dennison
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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33868

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Who do you believe was better in your lifetime?

I've been alive for: Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush (first election I could vote in), Obama, Drumpf. So, literally no one. Obama was easily the best of president of my lifetime (so far).

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted (edited)

A huge part of Obama’s legacy will be that his policies and Presidency led directly to a populist backlash in the form of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.  He then backed Hillary, who was such a shitty candidate that she lost to Donald Fucking Trump. 

 

I think history will not be as kind to Obama as y’all think. 

Edited by GRHorn
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Red Five

Red Five 40852

Posted
Posted
A huge part of Obama’s legacy will be that his policies and Presidency led directly to a populist backlash in the form of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.  He then backed Hillary, who was such a shitty candidate that she lost to Donald Fucking Trump. 
 
I think history will not be as kind to Obama as y’all think. 


Don’t forget the major scandals, like eating arugula and having a pastor that one time said something bad.
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

A huge part of Obama’s legacy will be that his policies and Presidency led directly to a populist backlash in the form of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.  He then backed Hillary, who was such a shitty candidate that she lost to Donald Fucking Trump. 

  

 I think history will not be as kind to Obama as y’all think. 

Yeah, pretty sure "Obama made us elect Trump!!!" ain't gonna hold up in history books.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89644

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate to say this but Obama does need to take some responsibility for the political climate that gave us Trump.  America obviously had a serious problem that was being neglected by the Obama administration.  

Hillary.  Fucking idiot Dem leaders pushed the one candidate designed to bring out a lot of people who might not normally vote. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

No president is perfect, but Barack Obama was a damn good one.

Best president of the 21st century by a long shot. In his competition's defense, they are arguably the worst two presidents in history so it's not much of a contest. 

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Hornius Emeritus

Hornius Emeritus 12457

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate to say this but Obama does need to take some responsibility for the political climate that gave us Trump.  America obviously had a serious problem that was being neglected by the Obama administration.  

 

How exactly would Obama have addressed this political climate?  By not being black?

Edited by Hornius Emeritus
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate to say this but Obama does need to take some responsibility for the political climate that gave us Trump.  America obviously had a serious problem that was being neglected by the Obama administration.  

Yeah, his ongoing policy of being black. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Hillary.  Fucking idiot Dem leaders pushed the one candidate designed to bring out a lot of people who might not normally vote. 

Whatever.  Hillary was qualified and ran on a moderate platform.  The mouth breathers that hated her for bullshit reasons deserved zero placating.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

How exactly would Obama have addressed this political climate?  By not being black?

Wrong.

There was a populist uprising on the left as well that the political establishment, of which Obama was the great standard bearer, did everything they could to squash.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

How exactly would Obama have addressed this political climate?  By not being black?

I don’t know exactly.  

I do know there was a very angry out of touch element of the population that was galvanized by Trumpism.  

I’m not sure Obama could have stopped that train.

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F250

F250 28766

Posted
Posted

 

11 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The rise of shady alternative sources of information galvanized Trumpism more than anything IMO.  Russia was a part of that and the right wing media used their tactics nonstop during the Obama administration.

The populist wave goes back over a decade. Blue collar populism was already bubbling up by 2008 and it was Sarah Palin who galvanized that base. Trump inherited the base after it had been nurtured by the GOP for years. Trump was basically Sumlin inheriting Sherman's recruits for a fluke season.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, F250 said:

 

The populist wave goes back over a decade. Blue collar populism was already bubbling up by 2008 and it was Sarah Palin who galvanized that base. Trump inherited the base after it had been nurtured by the GOP for years. Trump was basically Sumlin inheriting Sherman's recruits for a fluke season.

 

Yeah, there are many contributing factors including the steady decline of good journalism due too declining profitability, the internet, and a consumer base that rewarded entertainment over valuable/accurate information.

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F250

F250 28766

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, there are many contributing factors including the steady decline of good journalism due too declining profitability, the internet, and a consumer base that rewarded entertainment over valuable/accurate information.

Seriously, Trump is the result of the tea party taking over the GOP. Palin was picked to lure in these voters because they sure as shit were not McCain fans. Once Palin's popularity surpassed McCain's she went "rogue." The GOP placated to the Tea Party rather than let them bounce like the Buchanan Brigade. Coincidentally, Buchanan's rhetoric was very similar to Palin's and Trump's but more so Trump. Isolationism + Protectionism and desire to return to the 1950s.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)

No doubt the Tea Party movement laid the groundwork for both the Russians and Trump. But you also have to factor in the rise of Breitbart and Bannon circa 2012.

I’ll admit I thought the Palin selection was a politically savvy move for McCain at the time...before I knew she was a dog whistling idiot.

Good call on Buchanan’s isolationism from the mid-1990s.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11819

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t know exactly.  

I do know there was a very angry out of touch element of the population that was galvanized by Trumpism.  

I’m not sure Obama could have stopped that train.

He couldn’t.  That train was a long time coming.  It started with Nixon on the heels of change.  I’ll save that screed for another time.  

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