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Donald Trump 2018

TheFlyingBoat

By TheFlyingBoat
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M12BH
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SInce y'all seem to be my clearinghouse for all things political, let me tell a story.  A couple of them, actually.  Three, if you want to be specific. When I was 14 I went with a family frien

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:


This is an unreasonable take at this point in time. I hate the guy’s guts but you have to acknowledge that what happened today is at least a very positive first step towards a tough goal. It may all mean nothing a year from now, but at this point it has to be acknowledged as progress.

No, your take is beyond naive.  The only progress is on Trump's side, because he started with such insane rhetoric, and now things seem better just because he's talking peace.  But the only real change is in Trump's attitude, not anything on the NK side.  We just gave Kim our military exercises in exchange for the same vague promises NK has given us for 25 years at various points.  Today was the first step towards NK's international acceptance as a nuclear state. 

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 14962

Posted
Posted
No, your take is beyond naive.  The only progress is on Trump's side, because he started with such insane rhetoric, and now things seem better just because he's talking peace.  But the only real change is in Trump's attitude, not anything on the NK side.  We just gave Kim our military exercises in exchange for the same vague promises NK has given us for 25 years at various points.  Today was the first step towards NK's international acceptance as a nuclear state. 

Cross post from the Korea thread because you guys need to look inward at yourselves.

Reading the butthurt in here reminds me yet again that 95% of our population, including the posters on here, are simply incapable of perceiving anything political in any way other than reinforcing their existing beliefs. If you hate the left, everything that happens will be perceived thru that lens.

I hate Trump’s guts. But objectively you have to acknowledge that for such an incredibly difficult problem and situation, the agreement with NK is a positive first step. It may all fall apart later, but you have to start somewhere, and commitment to de-nuclearization is the right first step. The only thing we have given up is joint military exercises, which are just a money drain anyway. If things go sideways, we just start exercises again. Sanctions are still in place. Fears over legitimizing Un are way over-blown. The whole world knows he’s a clown. Complaints about no human rights changes are premature. We work with China and they have a plethora of human rights violations. There are a dozen other countries we deal with that also are brutal dictatorships, like Saudi Arabia. The main goal is denuclearization, not solving all their human rights violations. In fact, you can’t easily do that until you’ve solved the nuclear problem first.

You guys are smart. Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22598

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

You guys are smart. Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.

Trump praised a murderous dictator, agreed to stop military activities, alienated our most important international allies, and neglected to discuss human rights violations, all in exchange for becoming the fourth US President to oversee a denuclearization pledge from North Korea.  

Value.

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13253

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Gardner Barnes said:

Lost is the press conference was this exchange (referring to needing a transcript of the meeting)

 

Dotard: “don’t need it, I have one if the best memories of all time”

 

Hopefully we get to put that memory to good use when he sits to answer questions from Mueller.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45538

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:


This is an unreasonable take at this point in time. I hate the guy’s guts but you have to acknowledge that what happened today is at least a very positive first step towards a tough goal. It may all mean nothing a year from now, but at this point it has to be acknowledged as progress.

Wait, didn't Trump say this was Rocket Man's only shot?

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27-25

27-25 2040

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It's like a football game where the other team gets to hold with impunity, gets to chop-block every play, gets to trip, clip, etc.

I thought this was the politics board, not the Big 12 officiating thread.

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'stache

'stache 21744

Posted
Posted (edited)

So he's mad at Canada's PM, but gets along swimmingly with a dictator who starves and tortures his own people.  He also calls him a "leader" not a "dictator."  Remember when the right was so angry at Obama for not using the word "Islamic terrorist"?  Lol, this fuckstain won't even call a dictator a dictator.

It's pretty clear why he's mad at Trudeau.  He's everything Trump wishes he were--strong, smart, charming, respected, young, good looking.  It's jealously, pure and simple.  Our "president" has the emotional intelligence of a grade schooler.

Edited by 'stache
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22598

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

So he's mad at Canada's PM, but gets along swimmingly with a dictator who starves and tortures his own people.  He also calls him a "leader" not a "dictator."  Remember when the right was so angry at Obama for not using the word "Islamic terrorist"?  Lol, this fuckstain won't even call a dictator a dictator.

 It's pretty clear why he's mad at Trudeau.  He's everything Trump wishes he were--strong, smart, charming, respected, young, good looking.  It's jealously, pure and simple.  Our "president" has the emotional intelligence of a grade schooler.

Also:

58a32f4025000034080b8f37.jpeg?cache=cgio

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28703

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Trump praised a murderous dictator, agreed to stop military activities, alienated our most important international allies, and neglected to discuss human rights violations, all in exchange for becoming the fourth US President to oversee a denuclearization pledge from North Korea.  

Value.

And he tore up the Iran deal which was an actual deal. So far he's achieved a net negative when it comes to peace and security. 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17548

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's crazy to even entertain the thought that this is positive.  We gave up significant ground, left our South Korean allies flailing in the wind to ingratiate ourselves to arguably the lowest dictator on the 3rd world rung.  What is NK to us?   Nothing.  Yet now, they are "something."  And all the other little tin-pot dictators from Venezuela to Myanmar are thinking "maybe I should get me some nukes so I can get some American attention too."   

And here we are, the 800 lb. gorilla doing back flips to impress a flea who offers us nothing but a photo op and the same empty promises they've sold us previously.  

Edited by Chad Fuck
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

Why is it a positive step?  I don’t think it’s necessarily bad.  I don’t like the President making niceties with one of the worst tyrants in the world for moral reasons, and in that sense it does send a very wrong message.  But the propaganda angle on this is overstated.  Everyone outside NK knows what they are, and everyone inside NK has been fed nonstop propaganda about Kim’s greatness for all their lives.  A photo op doesn’t change.

However, nothing was actually accomplished.  It was a typical Trump bullshit session because that’s all he knows how to do.  Which I’m glad about, because I wouldn’t want him to actually delve into details he doesn’t understand or bind us to a real deal he negotiated.  Barring a miracle whereby NK actually does denuclearize, he will renege on cancelling those exercises with SK next year, too, because that’s what he does.

Letting Trump spend his time having symbolic lunch meetings and friendly golf games in front of the press is probably a good way to manage him and minimize his damage.  He can do what he does best - play act the role of businessman and/or President while feeling like he’s wearing his big boy pants - and other people can make sure things actually get done.

The problem with Trump is that he doesn't have other people that can make sure things actually get done.  More than him simply being a dumbass, that really is what differentiates his Presidency from others. Other Presidents surrounded themselves with niche experts and took advice from them.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Why is it a positive step?  I don’t think it’s necessarily bad.  I don’t like the President making niceties with one of the worst tyrants in the world for moral reasons, and in that sense it does send a very wrong message.  But the propaganda angle on this is overstated.  Everyone outside NK knows what they are, and everyone inside NK has been fed nonstop propaganda about Kim’s greatness for all their lives.  A photo op doesn’t change either side of that.  If anything, people in NK might wonder why Kim is shaking hands with the evil US President they’ve been told is causing their problems.

However, nothing was actually accomplished.  It was a typical Trump bullshit session because that’s all he knows how to do.  Which I’m glad about, because I wouldn’t want him to actually delve into details he doesn’t understand or bind us to a real deal he negotiated.  Barring a miracle whereby NK actually does denuclearize, he will renege on cancelling those exercises with SK next year, too, because that’s what he does.

Letting Trump spend his time having symbolic lunch meetings and friendly golf games in front of the press is probably a good way to manage him and minimize his damage.  He can do what he does best - play act the role of businessman and/or President while feeling like he’s wearing his big boy pants - and other people can make sure things actually get done.

I don't think the internal propaganda angle is overstated at all.   This sends a real message to any internal coup prospects that Kim has significant international strength and is achieving diplomatic success.   His internal power is purely psychological.  He could be toppled if thought weak and unsuccessful. 

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2718

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's crazy to even entertain the thought that this is positive.  We gave up significant ground, left our South Korean allies flailing in the wind to ingratiate ourselves to arguably the lowest dictator on the 3rd world rung.  What is NK to us?   Nothing.  Yet now, they are "something."  And all the other little tin-pot dictators from Venezuela to Myanmar are thinking "maybe I should get me some nukes so I can get some American attention too."   

And here we are, the 800 lb. gorilla doing back flips to impress a flea who offers us nothing but a photo op and the same empty promises they've sold us previously.  

It's at least 'slightly' better than calling each other Dotard and Little Rocket Man via twitter and slingin' rockets over Japan while threatening nuclear annihilation, no?  

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's crazy to even entertain the thought that this is positive.  We gave up significant ground, left our South Korean allies flailing in the wind to ingratiate ourselves to arguably the lowest dictator on the 3rd world rung.  What is NK to us?   Nothing.  Yet now, they are "something."  And all the other little tin-pot dictators from Venezuela to Myanmar are thinking "maybe I should get me some nukes so I can get some American attention too."   

And here we are, the 800 lb. gorilla doing back flips to impress a flea who offers us nothing but a photo op and the same empty promises they've sold us previously.  

this is what i don't understand.  we just lost a shit ton of face on the asian continent, giving kim a ton of legitimacy for vague promises. traditionally, in negotiations in asia, vague promises are what we in america call "stringing you along."

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29213

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

It's at least 'slightly' better than calling each other Dotard and Little Rocket Man via twitter and slingin' rockets over Japan while threatening nuclear annihilation, no?  

I dunno, the dotard burn was legitimately good.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

It's at least 'slightly' better than calling each other Dotard and Little Rocket Man via twitter and slingin' rockets over Japan while threatening nuclear annihilation, no?  

That's the thing.   The only crisis that has been averted is the one that Trump himself created. 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17548

Posted
Posted
Just now, babysdaddy said:

It's at least 'slightly' better than calling each other Dotard and Little Rocket Man via twitter and slingin' rockets over Japan while threatening nuclear annihilation, no?  

The war of words was nasty and destabilizing.  But we all knew that at least Lil Kim wasn't going to do anything because he wants to live.  The actual destabilizing part was Dotus facilitating the chaos by responding to him.  It is yet another example of Trump exacerbating (or creating from whole cloth) a problem, then coming up with a shitty "solution" to "fix" it.  

We didn't have to get into the name calling to being with, and we certainly didn't have to legitimize a little Hitler to de-escalate what we escalated to get us back to a point worse than where we started.  

So while saying this is "slightly" better than slinging insults, we didn't need to sling insults to begin with.  In the end, we lost.  Bigly.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17548

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

this is what i don't understand.  we just lost a shit ton of face on the asian continent, giving kim a ton of legitimacy for vague promises. traditionally, in negotiations in asia, vague promises are what we in america call "stringing you along."

We basically set ourselves up to do a photo op to show the Emperor's new clothes.  Everyone has now taken the measure of Trump and found the tiny hands rumor is true.  Trump grins ear to ear, naked before the world, exclaiming "World Peace!"  

Neville-Chamberlain-Returns-From-Munich-

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

The war of words was nasty and destabilizing.  But we all knew that at least Lil Kim wasn't going to do anything because he wants to live.  The actual destabilizing part was Dotus facilitating the chaos by responding to him.  It is yet another example of Trump exacerbating (or creating from whole cloth) a problem, then coming up with a shitty "solution" to "fix" it.  

We didn't have to get into the name calling to being with, and we certainly didn't have to legitimize a little Hitler to de-escalate what we escalated to get us back to a point worse than where we started.  

So while saying this is "slightly" better than slinging insults, we didn't need to sling insults to begin with.  In the end, we lost.  Bigly.

The rocket tests were the real danger.  Not because they intended to hit anyone with them, but because their rockets are pretty shitty and could have accidentally hit Japan which would have required a Japanese response.  Luckily that didn't happen.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17548

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The rocket tests were the real danger.  Not because they intended to hit anyone with them, but because their rockets are pretty shitty and could have accidentally hit Japan which would have required a Japanese response.  Luckily that didn't happen.

Agreed, the rocket tests were a danger.  And if that doesn't happen anymore, that's great.  My suspicion is that at some point, when they decide they want something from Trump, they'll fire some again.  

But there can be no doubt that Trump escalated the situation, then "solved' it by giving up a lot and getting not much.

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

Posted
Posted
this is what i don't understand.  we just lost a shit ton of face on the asian continent, giving kim a ton of legitimacy for vague promises. traditionally, in negotiations in asia, vague promises are what we in america call "stringing you along."


Right. And in Asia, they call it “stringing you ARONG”.
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28703

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Please tell me this is not true. 

https://gizmodo.com/president-trump-made-a-fake-movie-trailer-for-kim-jong-1826755454

 

 

I don't know why they call that a movie trailer. Movie trailers advertise movies. What's the name of the movie being advertised? It's just a piece of propaganda. And not exactly on par with Leni Riefenstahl.  

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yaqdum

yaqdum 182

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

"I may be wrong, I mean I may stand before you in six months and say, 'Hey I was wrong,'" said Trump, before adding, "I don't know that I'll ever admit that, but I'll find some kind of an excuse."

This has to be the most honest thing that he has uttered in his life.

that right there is hallmark behavior of the ulster scot.  if you know someone who simply cannot be wrong, cannot be corrected, and cannot learn from mistakes, then you may well know a person of ulster scot heritage.

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