Donald Trump 2018

[Brisketexan 105182]

There has been a remarkable amount of evil throughout human history, but overall I think what’s even more remarkable is how much good has triumphed.  Why is there any freedom, democracy, charity or peace anywhere if evil always wins?
I hope Brisket is ok in his personal life. I am not saying that to be snarky.  He may arrive at the opposing view, but he basically has become the mirror image of a Trumpkin.  The ends justify the means because the other political party is an existential threat.  They cheat and are evil in everything, so let’s play by their rules now!   It’s all fucked and hopeless, so burn it down and make them suffer for it!
There has to be something deeper going on there.

Nothing deep. Pretty simple, actually. Just the power of observation.

If you thought I was wrong before, I hope that the events of the past few days have helped you see that what we’re dealing with is pure evil that will stop at nothing. There’s no place too low for them.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Brisket’s fatalism is justified if it inspires others to work to prove him wrong.  I know I’m trying

 

but I know his pessimism isn’t unfounded, it’s just a matter of body count at this point.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

 

Umm.  Is Star Wars really the example you want to use?  Trump is practically Palpatine, and Palpatine gets defeated but is evil defeated?  Nope.  Evil only gets paused momentarily at times.  That fact even turns Luke into an isolationist little bitch.  Really, Luke destroyed 2 death stars and killed his evil dad, and all that did was swap Palpatine for Snoke and turn the Empire into the equally evil First Order.  Rey blew up an even bigger death star and the First Order kept going.  Luke jumped back in and blinked out helping a rag tag group of rebels survive, but the First Order is still in the lead.

So we've been through 8 films and 50 years and evil is still trucking.  And how will movie 9 end?  The rebels will kill the red headed guy, and Rey will kill or turn Kylo Ren with the help of teddy bears.  But First Order ships are the most powerful and they will be all over the galaxy without a leader.  So their Captains will be the de facto leaders of their sector and most of them will be worse than the FIrst Order itself.  Then after 10 to 20 years, a Second Order will rise and put it all together under an evil leader, and a plucky stable boy from a casino planet will stop him over a 3 movie cycle.  But the Third Order, also evil will rise from those ashes.

In Star Wars, evil always wins.

Evil never goes away, as Stephen Miller has so aptly shown us. But it doesn’t win unless we let it. The point is we must always stay vigilant, and we will always have to unfortunately.

And the last Star Wars movie I watched had a bunch of dancing Ewoks in it, so that’s the end of the analogy for me personally. 

[SKJ 1311]

Brisket is one of the good ones.

Sure, he's seeing it as being an insurmountable pile of shit, and he's probably right.

But brisket will always get a pass from me. 

He sees the truth, but I hope it's not as bad. 

Probably is, though

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, SKJ said:

Brisket is one of the good ones.

Sure, he's seeing it as being an insurmountable pile of shit, and he's probably right.

But brisket will always get a pass from me. 

He sees the truth, but I hope it's not as bad. 

Probably is, though

I've know the muthafucka for 35 years (though not all that well, and with big gaps in between) and he never knowingly tells a lie and I've seen paperwork indicating that his IQ is higher than 99 percent of y'all's. Seriously, I have, lol. 

[SKJ 1311]

I don't know him at all, except for innertrons.

But he's one of the good ones, for sure.

I'd buy him a beer. 

[NWBuck 8576]

14 minutes ago, SKJ said:

He sees the truth, but I hope it's not as bad. 

Probably is, though

 

[OnAComputer 1405]

2 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:

You mean the Human Rights Council whose members include China, Cuba, Venezuela, Qatar, Congo, Afghanistan, Rwanda, Burundi, and Egypt and was headed by Saudi Arabia? That council seems rock solid if you ask me.

Edited June 20, 2018 by OnAComputer

[deech 2291]

Fuck everyone's condescending concern for Brisket.  He's been typing that shit for a few months now.  He didn't just wake up today and buy into the we are all fucked argument.  He's been screaming it repeatedly over the last two months.  He's perfectly sane.  He may see things a little negatively and he may ultimately be proven wrong, but he's rationally posting how he sees things going.  No amount of time away from Surly or posting will fix that as nothing is broken.

[SKJ 1311]

2 minutes ago, deech said:

Fuck everyone's condescending concern for Brisket.  He's been typing that shit for a few months now.  He didn't just wake up today and buy into the we are all fucked argument.  He's been screaming it repeatedly over the last two months.  He's perfectly sane.  He may see things a little negatively and he may ultimately be proven wrong, but he's rationally posting how he sees things going.  No amount of time away from Surly or posting will fix that as nothing is broken.

Who's concerned?

I guess you missed the concern trolls

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, OnAComputer said:

You mean the Human Rights Council who’s members include comprised of China, Cuba, Venezuela, Qatar, Congo, Afghanistan, Rwanda, Burundi, and Egypt and was headed by Saudi Arabia? That council seems rock solid if you ask me.

*Whose

Quote

The members of the General Assembly elect the members who occupy the UNHRC's 47 seats. The term of each seat is three years, and no member may occupy a seat for more than two consecutive terms. The seats are distributed among the UN's regional groups as follows: 13 for Africa, 13 for Asia, six for Eastern Europe, eight for Latin America and the Caribbean (GRULAC), and seven for the Western European and Others Group (WEOG). The previous CHR had a membership of 53 elected by the Economic and Social Council(ECOSOC) through a majority of those present and voting.

We just bailed out of our seat because Netanyahu told us to. They give the Israelis shit about murdering people in Gaza, but when he speaks, Donald listens. 

Enjoy America getting pulled around by the nose by a country the size of New Jersey, bucko. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[OnAComputer 1405]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

*Whose

Caught the error as soon as I hit send. Thanks for looking out though.

[OnAComputer 1405]

2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

*Whose

We just bailed out of out seat because Netanyahu told us to. When he speaks, Donald listens. 

I’m not saying that the US should’ve bailed, but I’m not super concerned.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

25 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Evil never goes away, as Stephen Miller has so aptly shown us. But it doesn’t win unless we let it. The point is we must always stay vigilant, and we will always have to unfortunately.

And the last Star Wars movie I watched had a bunch of dancing Ewoks in it, so that’s the end of the analogy for me personally. 

Well, even if we end at ROTJ, evil is still winning.  The movie is entirely focused on a single theater of a galactic empire.  Much is made of the destruction of death star 1 and 2, but those were both experimental weapons for the empire.  The first was operational only briefly and the second was never really complete.  The empire came to control the entire galaxy without the help of a death star.  Star destroyers were the real workhorses that obtained and maintained empire control and the empire always had plenty of them throughout the galaxy.  They also had a rigid command structure that would have fallen to the 2nd heir and survived the loss of the emperor and his apparent first heir.  So the ewoks got to live another day, but the empire would still rule.

[4th&Five 41571]

 

[bolverk 29700]

6 minutes ago, SKJ said:

I don't know him at all, except for innertrons.

But he's one of the good ones, for sure.

I'd buy him a beer. 

1

I think he'd prefer a scotch, but your point still stands.

The last three decades have been a real gut check. In my naive youth as a college student, I rejoiced at the fall of the Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, thinking things would be hunky dory from here on end. I’m sure those of you of a certain age remember that annoying “Right Here. Right Now.” anthem of hope.

Then, I saw the rise of nationalism, isolationism, and bigotry within the GOP with Pat Buchanan. This was soon followed by the evil done to the Twin Towers and the lies told by our leadership so that we could “get Sadam”. Of course, there was also Abu Graib and asshole terrorists like ISIS.

Now, we’re dealing with the son of Buchananism: Trumpism, grandson to the segregationists and great-grandson to the KKK (also, cousin to the fucking Nazis).

What I’ve learned is that evil never dies but can always be kept in check if enough of us fight to resist it. And, given the fact that we haven’t succumbed to it and civilization hasn’t yet destroyed itself, I’m confident in saying that there’s more of us than them and they’ll never win the war if we don’t let them.

Unfortunately, that war will never end, but it's what we have to fight for if we want our progeny to have a future.

 

[TornACL 7722]

I like to daydream about the end of this era of American politics, but in doing so I fear that this era will end with significant bloodshed. 

Take for example the 2020 election. Can anybody give me any anecdote in Trump's political history that suggests he will go quietly if he loses? 

The guy was screaming rigged election from the mountaintop at the first suggestion his numbers looked bleak in 2016. 

Given what we know about his supporters, how will they respond to these tantrums? 

At this point I think the hard core Trump supporter would find a way to do the mental gymnastics needed to vehemently defend anything he says or does. 

I always think it's a healthy mental exercise to challenge your own beliefs and ask yourself "What if I am wrong? What if this is wrong?" Ever more, both sides are digging into their idealogical trenches and they aren't coming out. The truth and the answers are left to wither in the middle. 

More concerning, what if the next wave comes in a shinier package? We're having this much trouble with a card carrying buffoon who has frequently blown up his own policy with clumsy procedures and strategies. He's a wolf that looks very much like a wolf. 

What if the next guy is actually charming? 

[atomheartbevo 89762]

You can’t march on Washington when Rascal scooters are limited by their battery life. 

And for his younger, more radical supporters, they got kinda shy when people began outting them on social media. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

37 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I like to daydream about the end of this era of American politics, but in doing so I fear that this era will end with significant bloodshed. 

Take for example the 2020 election. Can anybody give me any anecdote in Trump's political history that suggests he will go quietly if he loses? 

The guy was screaming rigged election from the mountaintop at the first suggestion his numbers looked bleak in 2016. 

Given what we know about his supporters, how will they respond to these tantrums? 

At this point I think the hard core Trump supporter would find a way to do the mental gymnastics needed to vehemently defend anything he says or does. 

I always think it's a healthy mental exercise to challenge your own beliefs and ask yourself "What if I am wrong? What if this is wrong?" Ever more, both sides are digging into their idealogical trenches and they aren't coming out. The truth and the answers are left to wither in the middle. 

More concerning, what if the next wave comes in a shinier package? We're having this much trouble with a card carrying buffoon who has frequently blown up his own policy with clumsy procedures and strategies. He's a wolf that looks very much like a wolf. 

What if the next guy is actually charming? 

I would argue America needs to bleed a little  from the catastrophe that is Trumpism.  If we get out of this consequence free, it will only embolden the next Trump and more quickly.  

This needs to NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.  

The only way to ensure that is if everyone feels a little pain. It sucks but it needs to suck.

Kinda hope Trump strokes out tomorrow though.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[RayDog 682]

I just heard a take that Trump's policy of trying to discourage asylum seekers boils down to Trump trying to be more evil than MS-13.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

I think he'd prefer a scotch, but your point still stands.

The last three decades have been a real gut check. In my naive youth as a college student, I rejoiced at the fall of the Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, thinking things would be hunky dory from here on end. I’m sure those of you of a certain age remember that annoying “Right Here. Right Now.” anthem of hope.

Then, I saw the rise of nationalism, isolationism, and bigotry within the GOP with Pat Buchanan. This was soon followed by the evil done to the Twin Towers and the lies told by our leadership so that we could “get Sadam”. Of course, there was also Abu Graib and asshole terrorists like ISIS.

Now, we’re dealing with the son of Buchananism: Trumpism, grandson to the segregationists and great-grandson to the KKK (also, cousin to the fucking Nazis).

What I’ve learned is that evil never dies but can always be kept in check if enough of us fight to resist it. And, given the fact that we haven’t succumbed to it and civilization hasn’t yet destroyed itself, I’m confident in saying that there’s more of us than them and they’ll never win the war if we don’t let them.

Unfortunately, that war will never end, but it's what we have to fight for if we want our progeny to have a future.

 

Ah, that Peace Dividend. We were supposed to plow it into roads, bridges and schools, but instead we decided to kill a buncha Ay-rabs. 

[RPM 26329]

2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Ah, that Peace Dividend. We were supposed to plow it into roads, bridges and schools, but instead we decided to kill a buncha Ay-rabs. 

I was told that war would pay for itself.

[jimmyjazz 46001]

I've said it before and I'm only getting more confident -- the odds that this ends in some version of a modern civil war are not particularly low.  I think they're climbing, too.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[retread 2951]

CNN reporting that no R in their caucus said a word during their 'meeting' with DOTUS yesterday. Cheeto is now king in all but name. He says what laws really mean, even if it's a lie, and the Rs will fall in line behind him and say it's so.

[lemonlime 5503]

I don't think this ends well.  I'm not as pessimistic as Brisket.  I think that 35% of the country are kool aid drinkers and irredeemable.  People who will support kiddy concentration camps will only get worse.  But I do think a majority of the country knows this is wrong, and wants to change things.  But, I also don't think that matters.  People are acting like we just need to vote them out in 2018 and 2020.  That's not enough.  We have to act now.  We don't know if our voting systems will be tampered with, although we do know that with gerrymandering and voter suppression our leaders will not be representative.  And I certainly wouldn't put it past the Trumpublicans to change vote counts.  And we also know that if they lose, the Trumpublicans will rile their base with claims of a rigged election.

Regardless of what happens we're essentially in a civil war where 35% and 65% of the country believe the other side is evil and is stealing the election.  And the 35% that is wrong holds all the levers of power.  Good may ultimately triumph, but it ain't happening in 2018 or 2020.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

I'm with Brisket. I got on Facebook to see if there were any rumblings on this and what I could see was a guy from high school posting a picture of a dumpster saying that if the left cared about children they'd stop the millions of abortions. 68 likes.

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

4 hours ago, RayDog said:

I just heard a take that Trump's policy of trying to discourage asylum seekers boils down to Trump trying to be more evil than MS-13.

This is what we need on Internet message boards. More anonymous second hand takes. 

[Js1 85450]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

This is what we need on Internet message boards. More anonymous second hand takes. 

Thanks Simone

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I'm with Brisket. I got on Facebook to see if there were any rumblings on this and what I could see was a guy from high school posting a picture of a dumpster saying that if the left cared about children they'd stop the millions of abortions. 68 likes.

We're pro-life and we hate MS-13. We'd prefer that all those refugees from El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala stay home and if they get killed by MS-13 then that's their problem, not ours. But we're pro-life. 

Who can't spot the bullshit? 

[Vito Andolini 9127]

10 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I'm with Brisket. I got on Facebook to see if there were any rumblings on this and what I could see was a guy from high school posting a picture of a dumpster saying that if the left cared about children they'd stop the millions of abortions. 68 likes.

I’m a couple pages behind so SIAP, but I came to post about a new thing I’m seeing on Facebook, as many Trump leaning posters are talking about the need to “unfollow” many of their “friends.” Sounds like some of the base are rebelling and commenting about the caging of children, and instead of opening their eyes, others choose to hide the truth. Must have been a talking point somewhere, ignore the libcucks!

[Goredho 17413]

8 hours ago, SKJ said:

Brisket is one of the good ones.

Sure, he's seeing it as being an insurmountable pile of shit, and he's probably right.

But brisket will always get a pass from me. 

He sees the truth, but I hope it's not as bad. 

Probably is, though

Brisket’s fatalism is a reminder of what is at stake.  I don’t think he truly believes all is lost.  If he did, he would not keep shoveling at the seemingly insurmountable pile of shit.

[Anastasis 23481]

9 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

The real problem is that the integrity of the office is wrecked. Trump will be gone at some point. A smart person with integrity will be in his place.  But the lesson is learned. You call Zuckerburg, Bezos, and Cook to Brussels to discuss international networking. You call the CEOs of US oil companies if you want to discuss US energy policy. If you want to discuss trade, you bring in Bezos and the Walmart CEO.  If you want to talk finance, US bank CEOs.  Defense? Go straight to Boeing and Lockheed. You bring the US President in as a token gesture if you like him and tell him to piss off if you dont. Same difference. You aren't doing business with the USA after all. 

The office is irrelevant. Swamp is drained. Corporatocracy is now unchecked. 

 But hey, the President can always be a dick to illegal immigrants that get caught if he wants, so there is that.  At least until the corporate overlords say otherwise.

Who do we think are profiting from running the detention camps?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Anastasis

[shnsajax 3591]

Who do we think are profiting from running the detention camps?

It’s just a beta test for Jared privatization of prison reform he want to invest in.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Who do we think are profiting from running the detention camps?

 

How much did it cost the GEO Group to reap such rewards? According to the Newsweekarticle linked above, a subsidiary of the company made two separate donations to a Trump PAC, the first in the amount of $100k, and the second, a week before the election, for another $125k, as well as hundreds of thousands more to PACs supporting Republicans for Congress. NPR also reports another $350k donation to Trump’s inauguration events. Open Secrets records over $250k to individual Republican candidates. (Democrats aren’t totally off the hook here — another $35k went to candidates running as Dems.)

If you’re keeping count, that’s approaching a million dollars in political donations, from a company that, as a result of conservative politics, is reaping the benefits in the amount of nearly $184 million per year. That windfall will only increase as they house more detainees. Meanwhile, there are toddlers sitting on a concrete floor in a metal cage, wondering if they’ll ever see their parents again.

https://hillreporter.com/trump-donor-profiting-off-president-child-separation-policies-2814/amp

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

I don't think this ends well.  I'm not as pessimistic as Brisket.  I think that 35% of the country are kool aid drinkers and irredeemable.  People who will support kiddy concentration camps will only get worse.  But I do think a majority of the country knows this is wrong, and wants to change things.  But, I also don't think that matters.  People are acting like we just need to vote them out in 2018 and 2020.  That's not enough.  We have to act now.  We don't know if our voting systems will be tampered with, although we do know that with gerrymandering and voter suppression our leaders will not be representative.  And I certainly wouldn't put it past the Trumpublicans to change vote counts.  And we also know that if they lose, the Trumpublicans will rile their base with claims of a rigged election.

Regardless of what happens we're essentially in a civil war where 35% and 65% of the country believe the other side is evil and is stealing the election.  And the 35% that is wrong holds all the levers of power.  Good may ultimately triumph, but it ain't happening in 2018 or 2020.

And those 35% who get riled up over every little conspiracy and are humping Trumps leg as the great leader? Those are the ones who also cling to their guns as quickly as someone sneezes around them. That is the danger. Stroke the flames of paranoia and fear in that group, and anything bad that happens to their leader is a call to arms. We have seen it before where, so called militias, go to polling sites to "protect" the election while they have an AR on their back. This will only get worse. I'm not at the Brisket level yet, but I do see some really shitty timelines that are possible and becoming more likely the deeper we go. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by SmokeyTheBear

[Js1 85450]

52 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I'm with Brisket. I got on Facebook to see if there were any rumblings on this and what I could see was a guy from high school posting a picture of a dumpster saying that if the left cared about children they'd stop the millions of abortions. 68 likes.

[DixonHur 11345]

42 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

We're pro-life and we hate MS-13. We'd prefer that all those refugees from El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala stay home and if they get killed by MS-13 then that's their problem, not ours. But we're pro-life. 

Who can't spot the bullshit? 

You missed the fine print...

"We're pro-life"*

* Statement above applies to the children of white US citizens only

[Js1 85450]

Just now, DixonHur said:

You missed the fine print...

"We're pro-life"*#

* Statement above applies to the children of white US citizens only

#And only before they come out the womb

[Biff Tannen 45695]

9 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

 

Umm.  Is Star Wars really the example you want to use?  Trump is practically Palpatine, and Palpatine gets defeated but is evil defeated?  Nope.  Evil only gets paused momentarily at times.  That fact even turns Luke into an isolationist little bitch.  Really, Luke destroyed 2 death stars and killed his evil dad, and all that did was swap Palpatine for Snoke and turn the Empire into the equally evil First Order.  Rey blew up an even bigger death star and the First Order kept going.  Luke jumped back in and blinked out helping a rag tag group of rebels survive, but the First Order is still in the lead.

So we've been through 8 films and 50 years and evil is still trucking.  And how will movie 9 end?  The rebels will kill the red headed guy, and Rey will kill or turn Kylo Ren with the help of teddy bears.  But First Order ships are the most powerful and they will be all over the galaxy without a leader.  So their Captains will be the de facto leaders of their sector and most of them will be worse than the FIrst Order itself.  Then after 10 to 20 years, a Second Order will rise and put it all together under an evil leader, and a plucky stable boy from a casino planet will stop him over a 3 movie cycle.  But the Third Order, also evil will rise from those ashes.

In Star Wars, evil always wins.

[Dbeasy 15076]

The people who generally back Trump actually believe it’s Congress that is causing this issue. They don’t even know or realize that he’s using these kids as leverage to get his version of an immigration law passed.

I even heard a few of them say “well if Congress would just fix it....”. I’m a little despondent, realizing that most of the people in this country lack basic critical thinking skills. They just parrot what their political favorite says, without thought to whether it’s true or righteous.

[JohnRedHorn 29]

1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

I don't think this ends well.  I'm not as pessimistic as Brisket.  I think that 35% of the country are kool aid drinkers and irredeemable.  People who will support kiddy concentration camps will only get worse.  But I do think a majority of the country knows this is wrong, and wants to change things.  But, I also don't think that matters.  People are acting like we just need to vote them out in 2018 and 2020.  That's not enough.  We have to act now.  We don't know if our voting systems will be tampered with, although we do know that with gerrymandering and voter suppression our leaders will not be representative.  And I certainly wouldn't put it past the Trumpublicans to change vote counts.  And we also know that if they lose, the Trumpublicans will rile their base with claims of a rigged election.

Regardless of what happens we're essentially in a civil war where 35% and 65% of the country believe the other side is evil and is stealing the election.  And the 35% that is wrong holds all the levers of power.  Good may ultimately triumph, but it ain't happening in 2018 or 2020.

The coming civil war will be messy. There's no division of north versus south to draw battle lines on. 

One thing is for sure... The world will rejoice

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 hour ago, retread said:

CNN reporting that no R in their caucus said a word during their 'meeting' with DOTUS yesterday. Cheeto is now king in all but name. He says what laws really mean, even if it's a lie, and the Rs will fall in line behind him and say it's so.

It has been reported that they were not allowed to engage with Trump. It was just Trump standing there and barking orders. Fuuuuucked

[Anastasis 23481]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:



Preferably one transmitted via walmart and twitter. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The people who generally back Trump actually believe it’s Congress that is causing this issue. They don’t even know or realize that he’s using these kids as leverage to get his version of an immigration law passed.

I even heard a few of them say “well if Congress would just fix it....”. I’m a little despondent, realizing that most of the people in this country lack basic critical thinking skills. They just parrot what their political favorite says, without thought to whether it’s true or righteous.

Don't worry about the lemmings.  Just as easily as they are following in one direction, they'll head the other direction when everyone else does.   We don't need unanimity to change the country's course.  Just majorities. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Js1 85450]

3 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

It has been reported that they were not allowed to engage with Trump. It was just Trump standing there and barking orders. Fuuuuucked

*Eyebrow furrowing intensifies*

[Fastbreak 3989]

The WW2 good/evil thing is alternate history. The British got involved (finally) because Germany invaded Poland. At at end of the war was Poland “free”? No, it suffered another 40 years under a different kind of crushing oppression. Same for the Balkan states and even half of Germany. I would imagine that the average Berliner in 1955 would say thier life was much better in 1935  

Evil did win WW2, it just ran out of money for a few years giving some people hope before they were crushed again. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

This is what we need on Internet message boards. More anonymous second hand takes. 

In fairness, it did work for the Russians 

[Biff Tannen 45695]

6 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Don't worry about the lemmings.  Just as easily as they are following in one direction, they'll head the other direction when everyone else does.   We don't need unanimity to change the country's course.  Just majorities. 

If that were true, we wouldn't be in this clusterfuck now.