Donald Trump 2018

[Ghost of LL 15504]

Stepping away from this discussion for a minute and back to the theme of the day, when the headline on The Hill is "Ryan: Trump's conference with Putin not treasonous," you've lost the narrative.  The best the Speaker of his own party can say about Trump is that he's not a traitor.

What goes left unsaid is that, while we don't think he's a traitor, he's a spineless pussy who doesn't have the country's best interests at heart.  That's really off-brand for a guy who scores well in every poll on being "strong" and whose campaign theme was "Make America Great Again" and whose tagline has been "America First."  It undermines all of his support.

Look--Team Patriot needs more teammates.  But as much as anything, it needs fewer people to be on Team Traitor.  Because for purposes of this election, if 2016 Trump voters decide to be 2018 nonvoters, we win.  And yesterday is the kind of stuff that will convince those 2016 Trump votes that "he isn't any different" and he's not worth bothering with in 2018.

[Gil Bang 25905]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

This is basically what I'm saying in a round about way.  I think BT and Brisket both are a little bit right and a little bit wrong but missing the general point.  The answer for the Dems is not to "flip" republicans.  It aint happening.  I also think its a waste of time to "court" centrists.  The way to win is to get people who identify mostly with the dems to actually go out and fucking vote.  I think we the traitorous cheeto won because (a) the dems nominated an person who has been around so long she didn't really excite anyone, including casual dems, and (b) they let the fucking media treat Trump as unelectable resulting in several casual dems not going to the polls in swing states because it sure sounded like Trump couldn't win.

Here's the plan dems.  Nominate someone exciting and do every fucking thing in your power to get people to the polls.  Do the same locally, in every office, from POTUS to dog catcher.  Stop getting dominated strategically by a party that elected a fucking traitor whose approval rating will never dip below 30%.  Those people aren't "casual" replicans, they are die hards who you can damn sure bet will be at the polls in droves.  Excite your voters to get to the polls to defeat those idiots.

Obama said the other day something along the lines of don't sit around waiting for a candidate that excites you, just go vote. 

[VRHorn 718]

Purity tests got us into this -they are not likely to get us out.

The goal has to be to focus on teaching the pubs a hard lesson about bowing to a cult of personality and then picking up the pieces and moving forward. If we maximize the votes against the pubs, we can fix the critical issues. It will then be on both parties to engage with the public in a constructive way.

['stache 21778]

Just now, Gil Bang said:

Obama said the other day something along the lines of don't sit around waiting for a candidate that excites you, just go vote. 

Ideally, yes.  But that doesn't work in this country.  People don't vote unless there is something exciting.  Oklahoma just got a decent turnout for a primary election because medical pot was on the ballot.  I'm hoping and praying they show up in November too, but I doubt it, unless someone or something excites them. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26381]

Ghost killing it the last few pages.

[Fozzz 152]

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, step one in that process is wresting control away from the political party that already actively attempts to suppress votes and is now headed by an authoritarian man with legitimate personality disorders.

But sure, keep working on the little details instead of the big one. You know what would help with winning an election while the party in control is suppressing votes? Courting votes from people who won't have their votes suppressed (i.e. they're white so the GOP won't even think about it).

As far as issues that Dems can emphasize, the collusion with Russia issue is unlikely to have much salience with many voters. The “situation with Russia” doesn’t even register when Gallup polls the most important problems facing the US, for instance. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx

i think it would behoove Dems to emphasize issues that would have more of a direct and material impact on ordinary peoples’ lives, like healthcare, injecting demand into the economy, etc. 

[bad_teammate 13182]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's cool.  You are only interested in folks who will swim in the 15% leftist waters you occupy.  Nifty.

I like your made-up statistics. They're cool.

Many of the policies I consider central to my political worldview (universal healthcare, abortion rights, living wage, higher taxes on the rich) are actually extremely popular ones. But I guess 15% validates your worldview so run with it.

Quote

There are 15% or so of folks who swim in the extreme right waters, too.  Nifty.

lol you are literally Donald Trump both-sides'ing because your feelings are hurt (just like you literally But Hillary'd earlier)

The extreme right is Nazis. My extreme left wants kids out of cages and free college for poor kids. Both sides.

Quote

You're an impotent little man who signed on to an ideological movement that shoots itself in the dick so effectively that it lost a presidential race to a fucking cheeto.  Forgive us if we don't look to you Dem true-believers as the sage wisdom when it comes to "how to take out Donald Trump."  You shit the bed the last time we had that mission, and now you want to be the fucking quarterback and have the rest of us be so grateful we're happy you fucked our sister the prom queen?  Not gonna happen, bud.  You lost a presidential race.  To Donald Fucking Trump.  But now you've got it all figured out?

I am a leftist. I literally have a Democratic Socialists of America card in my wallet and have for years. Obviously I vote Dem way more than I vote Republican, but for someone who has expended so much righteous outrage at being pigeonholed, you seem to revel in the thing you accuse me of. Like Trump, every accusation is a confession.

I voted for Bernie in the Dem primary then Hillary in the general. I have zero guilt about voting for Hillary, because Donald was the other choice.

This gambit you're trying of turning Trump's election around on the ideological left is hilarious. Keep going.

Quote

And if your litmus test is "wear hemp, smell like patchouli, or GTFO," then fuck your test.

lol this guy

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The point is to get the current POTUS and more generally the current iteration of the GOP out of office. Not to pretend that the defectors are going to remain Democrat forever.

I will be voting Democrat in elections to national office for the first time in my life this November.

Have you always voted independent/Libertarian previously?

Also, getting "the current iteration of the GOP out of office" is not "the point". It's YOUR point, but that's kind of what I'm getting at where people like you think that your freshly-minted crisis is everyone else's crisis because people like you think they are the center of the universe.

[JBJ 3654]

24 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

That's because just like b_t you are missing the point entirely. The point is to get the current POTUS and more generally the current iteration of the GOP out of office. Not to pretend that the defectors are going to remain Democrat forever.

I will be voting Democrat in elections to national office for the first time in my life this November. I am not going to pretend that I will continue voting Democrat indefinitely.

Fair enough.  I think that was my point as well.

Edited July 17, 2018 by JBJ

[Hugo Stiglitz 23366]

It’s odd that the FACT that Hillary had a massive Russian military operation working against her still gets easily overlooked.

[wildcat09 29307]

It's funny that I've liked a lot of posts made by Brisket, Ghost of LL, AND BT the past couple pages. I think BT is right in a general sense that a bunch of the temporary R to D crossover voters will not actually take a critical look at how the Republican party got here now and that liberals can't count on them in the future. But the good ones will at least take a critical look at their priors, and hopefully enough will change their minds to swing the momentum on certain issues.

More importantly for the time being though, is getting every single person that we can over to our side to get rid of Trump and the current iteration of the Republican party. Beating them by 5% in a few elections isn't going to cause them to go away. They need to be ground into fucking dust, and that dust then needs to be salted and buried under a mile of concrete. We need to embarrass them so thoroughly they'll be terrified of ever speaking their bullshit in public again. We need to chase them out of the public sphere and shame them so badly their children disown them. Being a MAGA dipshit should get you fired from a job just like a swastika tattoo will. To do that is going to take a shitload more people than just liberals. And hopefully while we're working together to annihilate the MAGA dipshits, some of the not awful conservatives will take the time to learn why charter schools are fucking trash.

[Brisketexan 104799]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Many of the policies I consider central to my political worldview (universal healthcare, abortion rights, living wage, higher taxes on the rich) are actually extremely popular ones. But I guess 15% validates your worldview so run with it.

They also aren't necessarily hardcore leftist views, so maybe shitting on folks closer to the center who support some of those things isn't the wisest strategy.

People don't have to think exactly as you do on every fucking issue to be your ally.  I imagine you disagree with many of the views reflected in the Economist.....but those folks also think we should end the War on Drugs, they favor universal healthcare and abortion rights, etc.  Having them on your side on those issues can help actually bring those changes about.

But you have no interest in any ally unless they bow to you, do exactly as you demand, and behave with proper supplication.

Holy fuck, you ARE Donald Trump.

Shit's starting to make sense.

[Brisketexan 104799]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More importantly for the time being though, is getting every single person that we can over to our side to get rid of Trump and the current iteration of the Republican party. Beating them by 5% in a few elections isn't going to cause them to go away. They need to be ground into fucking dust, and that dust then needs to be salted and buried under a mile of concrete. We need to embarrass them so thoroughly they'll be terrified of ever speaking their bullshit in public again. We need to chase them out of the public sphere and shame them so badly their children disown them. Being a MAGA dipshit should get you fired from a job just like a swastika tattoo will. To do that is going to take a shitload more people than just liberals. And hopefully while we're working together to annihilate the MAGA dipshits, some of the not awful conservatives will take the time to learn why charter schools are fucking trash.

Fucking this.

[Ghost of LL 15504]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

As far as issues that Dems can emphasize, the collusion with Russia issue is unlikely to have much salience with many voters. The “situation with Russia” doesn’t even register when Gallup polls the most important problems facing the US, for instance. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx

i think it would behoove Dems to emphasize issues that would have more of a direct and material impact on ordinary peoples’ lives, like healthcare, injecting demand into the economy, etc. 

Well, kind of.

That's part of the Democrats' strength as the party out of power in 2018--they don't have to have a single unified message.  The pundit-ocracy runs around screaming "The Dems don't have a message," as though that's a weakness.  It's not.  It's a strength.

Instead of having a single message run by a single party head (i.e., the president), the party out of power has the flexibility to have 435 different messages.  And that's great, because the message that works for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in NY14 is waaaaaaay different from the message that's going to work for Conor Lamb in PA18.

Look--if you're running against Dana Rohrabacher, maybe collision with Russia is something you want to run on.  Hell, if you're running in TX32, it's certainly something that is going to fire up voters in some neighborhoods in that district.  But yeah--if you're running in that Montana at-large district, I think I might not emphasize that very much.

Broadly speaking, however, I agree with you that Democrats do better when talking about kitchen-table issues.  The tax cuts are bad, mmmmkay--there's a reason the Republicans abandoned that in PA18.  And the tariffs--which are tax increases, after all--are also really bad, especially in some of the districts that are immediately affected by them.  And yeah--Trump's approval ratings were never so low as when he was trying to repeal the ACA--Democrats would do well to talk about that.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Also, getting "the current iteration of the GOP out of office" is not "the point". It's YOUR point, but that's kind of what I'm getting at where people like you think that your freshly-minted crisis is everyone else's crisis because people like you think they are the center of the universe.

Get the fuck out of here.  It's everyone's crisis.  It's a national crisis. 

[Gil Bang 25905]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Well, kind of.

That's part of the Democrats' strength as the party out of power in 2018--they don't have to have a single unified message.  The pundit-ocracy runs around screaming "The Dems don't have a message," as though that's a weakness.  It's not.  It's a strength.

Instead of having a single message run by a single party head (i.e., the president), the party out of power has the flexibility to have 435 different messages.  And that's great, because the message that works for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in NY14 is waaaaaaay different from the message that's going to work for Conor Lamb in PA18.

Look--if you're running against Dana Rohrabacher, maybe collision with Russia is something you want to run on.  Hell, if you're running in TX32, it's certainly something that is going to fire up voters in some neighborhoods in that district.  But yeah--if you're running in that Montana at-large district, I think I might not emphasize that very much.

Broadly speaking, however, I agree with you that Democrats do better when talking about kitchen-table issues.  The tax cuts are bad, mmmmkay--there's a reason the Republicans abandoned that in PA18.  And the tariffs--which are tax increases, after all--are also really bad, especially in some of the districts that are immediately affected by them.  And yeah--Trump's approval ratings were never so low as when he was trying to repeal the ACA--Democrats would do well to talk about that.

On that last point...yes, run on "The ACA". Not on "Obamacare", particularly in places like the CA48

[ChiTownDoc 21113]

BT is this a bit you're doing?  I mean, WTF is wrong with you?  You get more points than anyone else because you're furthest left?  You want a fucking cookie?  You need a title?  Want your ego stroked?  You gave me a great 'kiss the ring' speech earlier...

You know who else loves that kind of talk?  

[Gil Bang 25905]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23366]

1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

 

I want to be sandwiched between Anna Kornakova’s and Maria Sharapova’s thighs but it ain’t going to happen.

[bad_teammate 13182]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

We need to chase them out of the public sphere and shame them so badly their children disown them. Being a MAGA dipshit should get you fired from a job just like a swastika tattoo will.

Do you think our new friends believe this and support this?

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Holy fuck, you ARE Donald Trump.

Every accusation a confession.
Both sides.
But Hillary.

But seriously Brisket, what do you even want besides the opportunity to wring your hands dramatically? Do you want Donald Trump impeached? Do you want Dems to take Congress in 2018 and the presidency in 2020? Who do you want to be the Dem candidate in 2020 and why?

I've asked a few times and I get nothing, but what do you guys actually want? I think that, for some of you, part of your collective hysteria and fury is that you don't actually know.

What is your ideal for 2020 or 2024? If it's a return to the pre-Trump status quo, that's might not even be worth fighting for. If it's something new, what is it? What is the larger social and political movement that led to Donald Trump's election and what do you want to see happen beyond a few more Dems in office?

Look at Ghost's call to the rep. Vague "direction" talk. Nothing specific. Ever.

[Gil Bang 25905]

timely.

 

 

[J.R. 150]

Can I trade Bad Teammate for GOLL and Brisket?  If so, welcome to the team. It’s a trade that will go down with the Herschel Walker trade. 

[bad_teammate 13182]

1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

timely.

 

 

I agree, timely. Maybe the centrists and right-wingers need to shut up for a fucking second and listen seriously to the left.

But no, the right-wingers and centrists will go on pretending it is actually THEM that are the silenced voices even though they have dominated American politics and speech for... all of America's existence.

[Longhornman2007 0]

 

Even as a liberal this is dumb and dangerous. We cannot persecute the interpreters. How is any future president supposed to get anything done if we go after interpreters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gil Bang 25905]

question=persecute?  What  color is the sky in your world?

[Ghost of LL 15504]

30 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More importantly for the time being though, is getting every single person that we can over to our side to get rid of Trump and the current iteration of the Republican party. Beating them by 5% in a few elections isn't going to cause them to go away. They need to be ground into fucking dust, and that dust then needs to be salted and buried under a mile of concrete. We need to embarrass them so thoroughly they'll be terrified of ever speaking their bullshit in public again. We need to chase them out of the public sphere and shame them so badly their children disown them. Being a MAGA dipshit should get you fired from a job just like a swastika tattoo will. To do that is going to take a shitload more people than just liberals. And hopefully while we're working together to annihilate the MAGA dipshits, some of the not awful conservatives will take the time to learn why charter schools are fucking trash.

Yes yes yes yes yes a thousand times yes!  This is the most important thing.  And it needs to be the most important thing, even for bad_teammate.  Because without this, he's never going to get universal healthcare or a living wage or anything else.  He'll get baby jails.  He'll get even more police brutality.  He'll get even more voter suppression. 

 

 

But let's go back to the first paragraph:

30 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's funny that I've liked a lot of posts made by Brisket, Ghost of LL, AND BT the past couple pages. I think BT is right in a general sense that a bunch of the temporary R to D crossover voters will not actually take a critical look at how the Republican party got here now and that liberals can't count on them in the future. But the good ones will at least take a critical look at their priors, and hopefully enough will change their minds to swing the momentum on certain issues.

You know--I think that needs to go along with grinding the Republican Party into the dust.  And it is a necessary step.  Of course, bad_teammate goes about it entirely the wrong way.  But that shouldn't surprise.

I've given my mea culpa on here before.  I'm not particularly shy about it.  I'm ashamed of the fact that I voted for and supported the Republican Party as long as I did.  For the most part, it was ignorance.  I didn't recognize the dog whistles.  I legitimately thought that evangelicals were all about their (in my view very misguided and heretical) view of religion, and didn't realize that it was all a cover for racism.  And along the way, I supported some policy choices that turned out to be bad in the light of later evidence (e.g., Iraq, trickle-down).  

And then there was something even stupider, of which I'm even more ashamed.  I assumed there were racists in the Republican Party, but I didn't really care because, hey--they support tax cuts, too.  I figured it was 5% of the party, based on my interactions with other Republicans.  I never dreamed it was more than 50% (which it plainly was).  But even if it was just 5%, it was morally wrong of me to be on the same side as them in any way for the sake of a few bucks.  I'm acknowledged that before, but I'll acknowledge it again--mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I'm deeply ashamed of that.  One day, I'll have to explain that to my kids.  Even worse, one day, I'll have to explain it to the Almighty.  I expect that'll be a tough conversation.

And so yeah--there is a reckoning that is a necessary requirement for the Republican Party to be ground into the dust.  

Edited July 17, 2018 by Ghost of LL

[retread 2951]

How many head-of-state meetings are held on a one-on-one basis where no one knows what happened? I remember people saying that the DOTUS/Putin sidebar at last year's summit was very irregular.

Edited July 17, 2018 by retread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23366]

BT’s victim hood is showing 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23366]

4 minutes ago, Longhornman2007 said:

Even as a liberal this is dumb and dangerous. We cannot persecute the interpreters. How is any future president supposed to get anything done if we go after interpreters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great first post.

Totally not a troll.

[bad_teammate 13182]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

BT’s victim hood is showing 

Ghost and I are probably in the same country club, dude, I'm golden.

Minorities, the undocumented, the poor... they're in a really bad spot and decorum centrism isn't going to help them.

Edited July 17, 2018 by bad_teammate

[bad_teammate 13182]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yes yes yes yes yes a thousand times yes!  This is the most important thing.  And it needs to be the most important thing, even for bad_teammate.  Because without this, he's never going to get universal healthcare or a living wage or anything else.  He'll get baby jails.  He'll get even more police brutality.  He'll get even more voter suppression. 

 

 

But let's go back to the first paragraph:

You know--I think that needs to go along with grinding the Republican Party into the dust.  And it is a necessary step.  Of course, bad_teammate goes about it entirely the wrong way.  But that shouldn't surprise.

I've given my mea culpa on here before.  I'm not particularly shy about it.  I'm ashamed of the fact that I voted for and supported the Republican Party as long as I did.  For the most part, it was ignorance.  I didn't recognize the dog whistles.  I legitimately thought that evangelicals were all about their (in my view very misguided and heretical) view of religion, and didn't realize that it was all a cover for racism.  And along the way, I supported some policy choices that turned out to be bad in the light of later evidence (e.g., Iraq, trickle-down).  

And then there was something even stupider, of which I'm even more ashamed.  I assumed there were racists in the Republican Party, but I didn't really care because, hey--they support tax cuts, too.  I figured it was 5% of the party, based on my interactions with other Republicans.  I never dreamed it was more than 50% (which it plainly was).  But even if it was just 5%, it was morally wrong of me to side with them in any way for the sake of a few bucks.  I'm acknowledged that before, but I'll acknowledge it again--mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I'm deeply ashamed of that.  One day, I'll have to explain that to my kids.  Even worse, one day, I'll have to explain it to the Almighty.  I expect that'll be a tough conversation.

And so yeah--there is a reckoning that is a necessary requirement for the Republican Party to be ground into the dust.  

This is a good post. Respect.

[edit] (I say "dude" too much)

Edited July 17, 2018 by bad_teammate

[Brisketexan 104799]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

But seriously Brisket, what do you even want besides the opportunity to wring your hands dramatically? Do you want Donald Trump impeached? Do you want Dems to take Congress in 2018 and the presidency in 2020? Who do you want to be the Dem candidate in 2020 and why?

Yes, I want him impeached.  Yes, I want the Dems to take BOTH houses in 2018 and the presidency in 2020.  I'm not sure who I want to see as a candidate.  Gillibrand has some pluses, and, yep, she's something of a moderate.  But I'm still open to being persuaded about several others -- it's a good ways off.

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

What is your ideal for 2020 or 2024? If it's a return to the pre-Trump status quo, that's might not even be worth fighting for. If it's something new, what is it? What is the larger social and political movement that led to Donald Trump's election and what do you want to see happen beyond a few more Dems in office?

I do not, in any way shape or form, want a return to the pre-Trump status quo.  The GOP had been on an unhealthy path for a while, but completely lost its shit when the people dared elect a black man in 2008.  I want things like common-sense immigration reform, not stupid fucking xenophobia that doesn't even match up to any data or economic reality; I want a measured reduction in defense spending; I want some sort of single-payer approach on healthcare; I want tax policy that better meets our revenue needs and is progressive in nature; I want reasonable environmental regulation that is the product of good science, while also reasonably accounting for economic impacts -- there's a proper balance to be struck; I want open, fair, and accessible elections (it should be easy for all eligible voters to vote, and any intentional fraud in either voting or disenfranchising voters should be punished severely); I want law enforcement to favor community policing approaches over militarized policing approaches; I want to end the War on Drugs, and to devote the saved money and resources to education and treatment.... want me to keep going on?  This is a silly fucking exercise.  

You have a purity test.

Just like the GOP does.  Their test would require me to suck orange cock.  Yours would require me to suck your cock.  I decline both demands.  You can both go suck your own cocks.

 

EDIT: and....a lot of what GOLL said.  In fact, in our private discussions, we've talked about several of those realizations -- some of which I came to sooner than he did, some of them later (but mostly sooner, because I'm smarter, and better looking, and women find me intriguing).  I sure as shit feel bad about being suckered in on some things over the years, but to my credit, I pay attention to data and results.  And based on that, I change my positions when appropriate.  That's what we should want MORE of, and we shouldn't shame it.  

Edited July 17, 2018 by Brisketexan

[Ghost of LL 15504]

6 minutes ago, Longhornman2007 said:

Even as a liberal this is dumb and dangerous. We cannot persecute the interpreters. How is any future president supposed to get anything done if we go after interpreters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As much as I want to know what was said, we would need to think long and hard about this for this reason.  

That being said, there are exceptions to all legal privileges.  In particular, I'm thinking of the crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client communication privilege.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23366]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Ghost and I are probably in the same country club, dude, I'm golden.

Minorities, the undocumented, the poor... they're in a really bad spot and decorum centrism isn't going to help them.

I like you and you are capable of making persuasive arguments to change opinions but this recent effort to push others away because “centrists” is counterproductive at the moment.

Maybe try pulling people towards your worldview instead of pushing them away.

JMO

Edited July 17, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Longhornman2007 0]

Great first post.
Totally not a troll.

First post, whatever. No one gives a shit. Point is if a president can’t communicate with another head of state through interpreters that are free from questioning by another body, then that is an issue. I guess we better hope our future presidents know every language spoken in the world.

I’m not one to defend Trump. He’s an ass, bigot, and is dangerous to this country. But there are better means than going after the interpreters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gil Bang 25905]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

As much as I want to know what was said, we would need to think long and hard about this for this reason.  

That being said, there are exceptions to all legal privileges.  In particular, I'm thinking of the crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client communication privilege.

She's a State Dept employee.  What privileges does she have? 

[Brisketexan 104799]

Just now, Longhornman2007 said:

First post, whatever. No one gives a shit. Point is if a president can’t communicate with another head of state through interpreters that are free from questioning by another body, then that is an issue. I guess we better hope our future presidents know every language spoken in the world.

I’m not one to defend Trump. He’s an ass, bigot, and is dangerous to this country. But there are better means than going after the interpreters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Question:

For whom does said interpreter work?  Is it

A) Donald J. Trump, or

B) The United States of America?

Seems some of you fuckers are forgetting the org chart here.  The President works for "we the people," being "The United States of America."  We the people.  All of us.  In the org chart, he's the bottom bitch.  He literally works for every single person in the country.

If our representatives want to see his correspondence, hear about his communications with foreign leaders, or even peer at his daily calendar, they damned well should be able to.  Because he works for US.

[Ghost of LL 15504]

1 minute ago, Longhornman2007 said:

First post, whatever. No one gives a shit. Point is if a president can’t communicate with another head of state through interpreters that are free from questioning by another body, then that is an issue. I guess we better hope our future presidents know every language spoken in the world.

I’m not one to defend Trump. He’s an ass, bigot, and is dangerous to this country. But there are better means than going after the interpreters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, hopefully the CIA had the foresight to bug the room.  Or, for that matter, I'm sure the stupid fucker took his unsecured cell phone into the room--all we have to do is get the NSA transcript.

[Ghost of LL 15504]

1 minute ago, Gil Bang said:

She's a State Dept employee.  What privileges does she have? 

I would make the argument that this falls under executive privilege.

[Gil Bang 25905]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

I would make the argument that this falls under executive privilege.

OK.  But must "she" assert that privilege?  Can Trump assert it on her behalf?   What if she's a loyal patriot and wants to spill the beans?

[GSU&UT 1798]

32 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

i think it would behoove Dems to emphasize issues that would have more of a direct and material impact on ordinary peoples’ lives, like healthcare, injecting demand into the economy, etc. 

And yet this is what Huck will probably get all bothered about, even though it's been pointed out the last two Democrat presidents have done a thousand times better job at balancing spending combined with tax increases (usually more on the very wealthy) and not an insistence to dramatically increase defense spending.

I'm not team "fuck everyone who previously only voted Republican and who now wants Trump to get out", but the "centrists" are slowly getting outnumbered by my generation (millennials) and the one behind me. At a minimum, I demand representatives to support national healthcare, a complete resistance to privatizing any social service, social security, or infrastructure, a much stronger audit of Defense spending, paper only ballots for elections, abolishment of voter ID laws, higher taxes on the top 1% to be used to better support public education, etc. Some of these issues I know you older folk support, but many aren't because you fail to see the country through the lens in which we grew up in, an extremely greedy country where wealth disparity is at an all-time high which has allowed a very small set of people to control the Republican party to continue to enrich their lives. These are the issues we care most deeply about and expect as platforms from the Democratic party going forward. We're going to pull this party more left and not let it become controlled by former conservatives who are now proudly staunch centrists.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23366]

Lovely 

 

[austingirl 2188]

 

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Do you think our new friends believe this and support this?

Every accusation a confession.
Both sides.
But Hillary.

But seriously Brisket, what do you even want besides the opportunity to wring your hands dramatically? Do you want Donald Trump impeached? Do you want Dems to take Congress in 2018 and the presidency in 2020? Who do you want to be the Dem candidate in 2020 and why?

I've asked a few times and I get nothing, but what do you guys actually want? I think that, for some of you, part of your collective hysteria and fury is that you don't actually know.

What is your ideal for 2020 or 2024? If it's a return to the pre-Trump status quo, that's might not even be worth fighting for. If it's something new, what is it? What is the larger social and political movement that led to Donald Trump's election and what do you want to see happen beyond a few more Dems in office?

Look at Ghost's call to the rep. Vague "direction" talk. Nothing specific. Ever.

Not Brisket, but as he and I have similar thoughts about our current administration, I'll tell you what I'd like. I'd like a leader who at least pretends he prepares for meetings with heads of state, openly condemns white nationalists (especially after they lead such efforts as in Charlottesville last year, doesn't side with Putin over his own advisors, and is man enough not to try to convince the public that he meant to say "covfefe". For starters.

[austingirl 2188]

Quote

If it's a return to the pre-Trump status quo, that's might not even be worth fighting for.

So you really think we were worse off before he came into office?

[retread 2951]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Lovely 

We're at war with those assholes, but no one in DC will admit it, least of all Cheeto.

[bad_teammate 13182]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Yes, I want him impeached. 

OK so why are you talking to/about Dems or leftists? What do they have to do with this goal? They can't do that. They could do a historic 2018 sweep and not impeach him. It's math. Not only that, the Dems don't even want to impeach him.

I'll go wayyyyyy back to something I asked right at the beginning of this bit of fun: Where is the movement among the center, center-right, and right to push Republicans to impeach Trump? If you guys want Trump impeached, why are you focused on talking to and electing people who will be completely unable to do that?

I have my theories as to why, but I've said it a million times already.

Quote

I want things like common-sense immigration reform, not stupid fucking xenophobia that doesn't even match up to any data or economic reality; I want a measured reduction in defense spending; I want some sort of single-payer approach on healthcare; I want tax policy that better meets our revenue needs and is progressive in nature; I want reasonable environmental regulation that is the product of good science, while also reasonably accounting for economic impacts -- there's a proper balance to be struck; I want open, fair, and accessible elections (it should be easy for all eligible voters to vote, and any intentional fraud in either voting or disenfranchising voters should be punished severely); I want law enforcement to favor community policing approaches over militarized policing approaches; I want to end the War on Drugs, and to devote the saved money and resources to education and treatment.... want me to keep going on?  This is a silly fucking exercise.

No, it's literally the only thing that matters. Railing on about Trump is the silly exercise. Issues are what matters. It is the only place in which useful conversation exists and it is the only place where actual common ground can be found.

America is going to exist in 2020 and 2024. Trump isn't going to destroy the Republic.

In Ghost's very good post he talks about some level of shock at realizing the reality behind the GOP base. My "shut up and listen" bit is not "kiss my ring" but "we were trying to tell you that and by the way there's other shit we're trying to tell you".

The destruction of my own brain that turned me into the garbage leftist moron I am now happened through the same process of "GOD DAMNIT RESPECT ME AND LISTEN I AM VERY IMPORTANT" deconstruction of my white man's ego as it died in the face of reason when I went to my first Secret Communist Cabal meetings. The Chomsky/Buckley debate hastened the smoothing of my terrible brain after seeing how just completely bankrupt the whole conservative enterprise was as encapsulated the smug idiocy of William F Buckley, a man I had previously thought to be very intelligent. (also awesome was him threatening Gore Vidal, who could've whipped his ass twice). This paragraph sucks I should delete it. (jk all my post suck)

Just now, austingirl said:

Not Brisket, but as he and I have similar thoughts about our current administration, I'll tell you what I'd like. I'd like a leader who at least pretends he prepares for meetings with heads of state, openly condemns white nationalists (especially after they lead such efforts as in Charlottesville last year, doesn't side with Putin over his own advisors, and is man enough not to try to convince the public that he meant to say "covfefe". For starters.

[wildcat09 29307]

21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Do you think our new friends believe this and support this?

 

I think Brisket and Ghost of LL do, doubt most of the current crop of crossovers do. But I also think it's largely irrelevant whether most of them currently believe and support it so long as they vote with us. If anything shuts the MAGA shitheads up, it's going to be a colossal defeat at the polls, and a vote is a vote. 

As for getting their support on issues going forward, we won't get most, but we'll get more than we would otherwise if we actually make an effort to welcome them in to the team. Nobody is a perfectly rational actor and we're all guilty of motivated reasoning. If they feel like there could be a place for them on the left, some will adopt more progressive policy views on at least some issues because that's how people work. That doesn't mean ignoring the fact that they supported the GOP for part of the road it took to now. Guys like Brisket and Ghost of LL have already examined some of their priors and realized they were wrong on some shit, and more like them will if we don't shut them out. Many more will never really have the self awareness to do so, but may change their minds on issues anyway without ever really acknowledging that they've even changed their minds. Those people may not be reliable long-term, but their votes count and I'll gladly take them if they suddenly up and decide that they support universal healthcare, net neutrality, student debt relief, etc.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

45 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More importantly for the time being though, is getting every single person that we can over to our side to get rid of Trump and the current iteration of the Republican party. Beating them by 5% in a few elections isn't going to cause them to go away. They need to be ground into fucking dust, and that dust then needs to be salted and buried under a mile of concrete. We need to embarrass them so thoroughly they'll be terrified of ever speaking their bullshit in public again. We need to chase them out of the public sphere and shame them so badly their children disown them. Being a MAGA dipshit should get you fired from a job just like a swastika tattoo will. To do that is going to take a shitload more people than just liberals. And hopefully while we're working together to annihilate the MAGA dipshits, some of the not awful conservatives will take the time to learn why charter schools are fucking trash.

I'm going to print this out and tape it to my bathroom mirror so I can read it every morning when I'm getting ready for the day. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

3 minutes ago, austingirl said:

So you really think we were worse off before he came into office?

Uhh, we weren't worse off, but there were (and obviously still are) a lot of people who weren't doing well in the pre-Trump status quo. I think BT is particularly angry because getting rid of Trump and a few Republicans isn't going to move this country forward, we need to take this opportunity to make full wholesale change to benefit those who have suffered the most due to their race and/or economic status.

[Longhornman2007 0]

Well, hopefully the CIA had the foresight to bug the room.  Or, for that matter, I'm sure the stupid fucker took his unsecured cell phone into the room--all we have to do is get the NSA transcript.

One can hope. Lord knows 42% will find any reason to not believe the facts put in front of their face.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RomaVicta 29847]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Lovely 

 

Better call Vlad for some more strong assurances that things are Jake between the US and Russia. Then we can do a deal.

BTW, this thread has gone to shit the last few pages.