Donald Trump 2018

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

If Cohen pleads the 5th, that's big.  Really big.  And NO, that's not admissible in a criminal proceeding against Cohen, that's not why it's big.

First, it's big because it may well validate the warrants on his office.  Remember the lawyer types telling us that the "crime-fraud" exception is what would allow for a warrant to be executed on an attorney's files?  Cohen pleading the 5th tells us "yep, and that basis was legitimate here."

 

No.  Innocent people can plead the fifth just as much is a guilty person can. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,705]

31 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

 

I would say no, but it works. Everybody keeps saying “Story X would be the biggest story ever in any other administration...” But with the way news currently works, having a new story out every day or two means very few stories ever hang around long enough to gain real traction. For the large percentage of the population that gets their news exclusively from Fox, a story that only hangs around for 48 hours never gets a mention. Presumably, they’d eventually have to address something like getting your maid pregnant if everybody else was covering it for weeks, but if everyone else has moved on, they can just skip it.

 

And continue obsessing over Hillary and Obama. 

[retread 2,951]

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

All actions of a completely innocent man. 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

28 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

No.  Innocent people can plead the fifth just as much is a guilty person can. 

That's true, but not really relevant to the point he was making, which was about the validity of the warrant, not ultimate guilt or innocence.   IIRC, when it comes to getting a look at privileged communications, the crime fraud exception can be invoked by showing a reasonable basis for expecting evidence involving the attorney.   And the Fifth can only be invoked where there is a reasonable cause to believe the information can be used to incriminate.  While the inquiries are not identical, in that other evidence already had to be used to meet the crime fraud exception,  Brisket's conclusion that the invocation of the Fifth "may well validate" the piercing of AC privilege seems like a good point to me.   If there is reasonable cause for Cohen to believe he could self-incriminate, it stands to reason that there really is a reasonable basis for expecting evidence of a crime involving Cohen too. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Going into a legal battle with Mueller is a lot different than getting sued by single-mom contractor for not paying for interior decorating.

Fify

[Brisketexan 104,557]

32 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

No.  Innocent people can plead the fifth just as much is a guilty person can. 

Well, sure.  And an innocent person also can say "I plead guilty" to a crime in a criminal proceeding

But they usually don't.  Because, you know, innocent people don't typically do that.

If we are in a civil case, and I ask a witness a question, and the witness then responds with "I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that it may incriminate me" -- then every person in the room knows that you are hiding what you BELIEVE to be criminal conduct (and to be clear, you are within your rights to refuse to answer on that basis).  But every reasonable person concludes that "yup, this guy did something illegal."  I've had that exact scenario happen.  As a civil litigator, it's solid gold.

Cohen pleading the 5th in a civil case is either the dumbest tactical move ever made (so, you have a point -- let's not put that past him) or an admission that he's engaged in what he (and his lawyers who are advising him) believes to be criminal conduct.

And, of course, what Mojo Hand said.  In fact, an attorney witness pleading the 5th in a civil case would be strong evidence to support such a warrant (remember, while the testimony invoking the 5th cannot be used in a criminal trial, it CAN be the basis for procuring a warrant).

Edited April 13, 2018 by Brisketexan

[yaqdum 182]

11 hours ago, bolverk said:

Republicans: 89 criminal convictions vs. Democrats: 1.

Holee shit.

that is a staggering disparity, for sure, but there's another interesting number that not immediately obvious, and that's the rate of conviction vs indictment.  in other words, how likely were indictments to be true and provable.

for the dems the rate was one in three while the gop tripped along at very near the rate of three convictions for every four indictments.   suggestion there might be that prosecutors were trigger-happy during dem administrations compared to gop.  if so, that makes the other disparities stand out even more.  even under a more intense looking glass, the success rate for finding provable dem wrongdoing was close to nothing.

[Jiggy-Z 3,432]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Trump administration is some combination of these three movies:

The Truman Show

The Matrix

Inception 

However, it will most likely end like Scarface.

You watch.  Someday they will make a musical about this admin.  It will be a uncomfortably dazzling combination color, light, and sound like Moulin Rouge and unorganized stumblebum with vast production overruns like Spider Man.  The entire cast will be made up of gay immigrants and it will be Trumps lasting legacy. It will be a moderate success in the US but a huge hit in Russia and the Baltic states, kind of like Baywatch effect.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

12 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah but even one conviction under a Dem is enough for....  BOTH SIDES!!!   

 

[jimmyjazz 45,546]

3 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

You watch.  Someday they will make a musical about this admin.  It will be a uncomfortably dazzling combination color, light, and sound like Moulin Rouge and unorganized stumblebum with vast production overruns like Spider Man.  The entire cast will be made up of gay immigrants and it will be Trumps lasting legacy. It will be a moderate success in the US but a huge hit in Russia and the Baltic states, kind of like Baywatch effect.

The Aristocrats!

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[4th&Five 41,457]

 

[atomheartbevo 89,408]

1 hour ago, SquishMitten said:

I would say no, but it works. Everybody keeps saying “Story X would be the biggest story ever in any other administration...” But with the way news currently works, having a new story out every day or two means very few stories ever hang around long enough to gain real traction. For the large percentage of the population that gets their news exclusively from Fox, a story that only hangs around for 48 hours never gets a mention. Presumably, they’d eventually have to address something like getting your maid pregnant if everybody else was covering it for weeks, but if everyone else has moved on, they can just skip it.

 

I should have prefaced that comment with "I don't think this story leaks, at least from anybody remotely pro-Trump, if they thought it would stay buried."

Scenario: Cohen gets raided.  National Enquirer folks are pro-Trump and have been friends for years, and have apparently squelched negative stories about Trump (not just the Playmate story).   Trump's people get wind of the FBI looking for communications with the National Enquirer folks, probably from the National Enquirer folks. Trump's people know that at some point this stuff (along with the stuff) will leak or will end up on court papers that will hit the public airwaves.  There are probably plenty of people around Cohen, or at least the National Enquirer who might be willing to sell what they know as well.  

Result/Damage Control: Leak just the barest details right now, it distracts some of the media from the Russia stuff, from Cohen's raid, etc. 

More importantly,  because it leaks now, by the time the actual hard facts (names, payment info, witnesses, etc.) hits the public conscious, it's already old news and/or overshadowed by something else (war with Syria lol).

[yoladu 4,066]

 

49 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

All actions of a completely innocent man. 

So I am gathering that majority of the focus and effort of the Trump Presidency will be finding ways to obstruct justice, where it be firings, hirings, twitter rants, intimidation, loyalty pledges, etc.

He really really doesn't want his corruption or criminality exposed.

[Gil Bang 25,897]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’d say the lawyers got to him. No doubt he wants to tweet about Comey.

 

I'm a San Diegan, and I've never once heard somebody say that we need a fucking wall. 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,410]

Trump really screwed up the tpp deal.  Previously the US had forced intellectual property protections in it but the other countries removed it after trump told them to pound sand.   Now it will be tough to get it back into the agreement along with a host of other important US issues.

What a child. He has no idea what’s he doing with his rash decisions and the entire country suffers. 

[Gil Bang 25,897]

oh shit

 

 

 

[Fozzz 152]

lol spineless pussies

https://twitter.com/benpershing/status/984626415181160448

[TheFlyingBoat 906]

3 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol spineless pussies

https://twitter.com/benpershing/status/984626415181160448

Why is the Democratic Party full of gigantic pussies?

[atomheartbevo 89,408]

9 minutes ago, TheFlyingBoat said:

Why is the Democratic Party full of gigantic pussies?

They have been handed an amazing opportunity that could be used to set back the GOP for years to come, possibly even until the demographic shifts in a few states make it much, much harder for the GOP to make a comeback. 

But because they are Democrats, they know deep down, that they will fuck up this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. They can’t help themselves. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by atomheartbevo

[Mo Horn 8,807]

The fact that it was "an honor" to fire someone says all you need to know about Trump. There are legit reasons why people should be fired, and the correct action to take, but I don't think it should ever be an honor to do it. 

[Fozzz 152]

what is their mission?  what would they do if they actually achieved power?  Conservatives actually know what they want to do.  

[Brisketexan 104,557]

42 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Welp...they just greenlighted the firing of Rosenstein.  He might as well start boxing up his shit.

And looking for a spine in Washington is about as fruitful as looking for a reasonable aggy.

[shnsajax 3,589]

3 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

The fact that it was "an honor" to fire someone says all you need to know about Trump. There are legit reasons why people should be fired, and the correct action to take, but I don't think it should ever be an honor to do it. 

This is the same guy that called the launching of missiles that would kill people beautiful.  

[Nivek 16,852]

I thought Eric was the one with a conscious that Tried to object to his dad raiding the coffers of a charity.   

[Brisketexan 104,557]

1 minute ago, shnsajax said:

This is the same guy that called the launching of missiles that would kill people beautiful.  

We have this guy as our president:

 

 

[Kyrie Eleison 9,312]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, sure.  And an innocent person also can say "I plead guilty" to a crime in a criminal proceeding

But they usually don't.  Because, you know, innocent people don't typically do that.

If we are in a civil case, and I ask a witness a question, and the witness then responds with "I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that it may incriminate me" -- then every person in the room knows that you are hiding what you BELIEVE to be criminal conduct (and to be clear, you are within your rights to refuse to answer on that basis).  But every reasonable person concludes that "yup, this guy did something illegal."  I've had that exact scenario happen.  As a civil litigator, it's solid gold.

Cohen pleading the 5th in a civil case is either the dumbest tactical move ever made (so, you have a point -- let's not put that past him) or an admission that he's engaged in what he (and his lawyers who are advising him) believes to be criminal conduct.

And, of course, what Mojo Hand said.  In fact, an attorney witness pleading the 5th in a civil case would be strong evidence to support such a warrant (remember, while the testimony invoking the 5th cannot be used in a criminal trial, it CAN be the basis for procuring a warrant).

it's more determinative than that for a civil litigant that pleads the 5th.  you actually get a jury instruction that the jury can infer that the party who pleads the 5th is in fact a party admission that the underlying guilt is true.

..."the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976).

[Brisketexan 104,557]

Just now, Kyrie Eleison said:

it's more determinative than that for a civil litigant that pleads the 5th.  you actually get a jury instruction that the jury can infer that the party who pleads the 5th is in fact a party admission that the underlying guilt is true.

..."the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” Baxter v. Palmigiano, 425 U.S. 308, 318 (1976).

Correct.  I never had to get the jury instruction, though.  Once his client pleaded the 5th in depo (several times), I reminded opposing counsel of that fact (that I was likely going to get a jury instruction).  Case settled pretty quickly.

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[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

[BrickHorn 18,186]

Kakistocracy is just a fancy word for the org chart at Dockers.

Edited April 13, 2018 by BrickHorn

[Bozo_Casanova 26,277]

kakistocracy literally means "government by the worst people"

Edited April 13, 2018 by Bozo_Casanova

[Brisketexan 104,557]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

kakistocracy literally means "government by the worst people"

I was promised THE BEST people.

This seems like a problem.  I would like to speak to the manager, please.

[hayden_horn 11,360]

31 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

what is their mission?  what would they do if they actually achieved power?  Conservatives actually know what they want to do.  

lol wat

if they knew what they wanted to do, wouldn't they be able to, um, do it?

[jimmyjazz 45,546]

8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

lol wat

if they knew what they wanted to do, wouldn't they be able to, um, do it?

Shhh.  He's on a roll.

[SquishMitten 10,398]

19 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

I'd love to see the price sheet for paying people off. Is it rated differently by male vs female? Minorities get less? 30k for silence, 130k for a Trump fuck and silence. Is there a combo deal for a fuck, pregnant, abort and silence? 

 

 

19 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You in the market?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it

[Mo Horn 8,807]

Does this include all of his products that are made overseas?

 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,106]

25 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

kakistocracy literally means "government by the worst people"

While I appreciate your nod towards accuracy, Brockhorn was providing the lulz, and isn’t that the important thing here?

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

I'm not sure that Dems are playing this the wrong way.  Yeah, they are pussies, but when your opponent is making a mistake, it's often best to get out of the way.  Their actual power is very limited right now.  If you get out there vocally but can't actually do anything, you run the risk of being lumped in. 

[Fozzz 152]

26 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

lol wat

if they knew what they wanted to do, wouldn't they be able to, um, do it?

They can try, but it's hard when your policies are incredibly unpopular.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Fozzz

[retread 2,951]

If the Ds don't react strongly and immediately, there may not be anyone else to do it. The Rs seem content to let it happen.

The passage of time is one of DOTUS' best tools. Just think of the R memo that got released first. For Trumpsters, all they remember is that the Nunes memo vindicated Cheeto b/c he said so.

Remember the D memo? Trumpster: "What D memo?"

Edited April 13, 2018 by retread

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

38 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Kakistocracy is just a fancy word for the org chart at Dockers.

[retread 2,951]

 

[SquishMitten 10,398]

13 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I'm not sure that Dems are playing this the wrong way.  Yeah, they are pussies, but when your opponent is making a mistake, it's often best to get out of the way.  Their actual power is very limited right now.  If you get out there vocally but can't actually do anything, you run the risk of being lumped in. 

[Jive Turkey 12,568]

50 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Kakistocracy is just a fancy word for the org chart at Dockers.

The word is used as a lyric in a Raconteurs song.  Great song  

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Jive Turkey

[Jive Turkey 12,568]

Just the tip of the iceberg. 

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5,562]

Whoa. Price sheet needs to be updated. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

The fact that it was "an honor" to fire someone says all you need to know about Trump. There are legit reasons why people should be fired, and the correct action to take, but I don't think it should ever be an honor to do it. 

Shitstain gotta shitstain 

[Fozzz 152]

lol he pardoned Scooter