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Donald Trump 2018

TheFlyingBoat

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17686

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The stupidity of the mob goes back to Rome (and surely, before).

We are not immune.

Rome fell.

We're falling.

Sic Semper fucking idiots.

Rome fell, but it suffered a lot of idiots on its way.  This may be just one of many idiots we have to suffer.

On the other hand, I am looking for land in Scotland, because I don't want to find myself on the wrong side of the ocean from my libation of choice.

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M12BH
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SInce y'all seem to be my clearinghouse for all things political, let me tell a story.  A couple of them, actually.  Three, if you want to be specific. When I was 14 I went with a family frien

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Slocum’s Razor

Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted

I posted this on the scat board over a year ago.

 

Stage 1: Demoralization –  

promote anti-establishment beliefs. Anti-religion, anti-education, anti-immigrant, anti-science, anti-media, anti-government, anti-police, anti-anything of value to the society. This acts as a substitution of moral values.  

Natural ideological tendencies are greatly taken advantage of by propaganda. 

Goal is to destroy objective truth, facts don’t matter anymore. 


Stage 2: Destabilization –  

You let your target population destabilize themselves. 

Radicalization begins.  

Polarization occurs among family, friends, and neighbors...results in constant fighting...Compromise is impossible. 

Radicalization also includes militarization.  

Law and order erodes – Society becomes antagonistic within itself – divisions, fracturing. 

The media puts itself in opposition to the society at large.  

Divisive cultural issues come to the mainstream resulting in conflict, sometimes violently.  


Stage 3: Crisis –  

The government systems cannot function anymore.  

Society collapses- can't function properly  

Power struggle occurs.  

Society is looking for a savior – some strong leader, population is sick and tired of the same old same old. 

This leads to two possible outcomes: 
1. Civil War 
2. Invasion  


Stage 4: Normalization –  

The self appointed rulers don't need any revolution or radicalization anymore.  

Dissidents are eliminated/suppressed.  

Stability is required to then exploit the nation. No more protests/strikes. 
 

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staboner

staboner 4984

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'll be honest here--I've laughed about Brisket's seeming hyperbole along with everyone else.  I've laughed at him to his face about it.

I'm not laughing today.

Think about this--the administration announced today it is going to openly violate the law and keep children in prisons indefinitely.  And that story is waaaaay down the page on the Wapo and NYT websites.  And it should be waaaaay down the page, because at the top is the claim that the president has been silently but effectively removed from power by some unknown junta.

For the first time today, I'm genuinely disturbed and frightened.  

Really? I mean I guess we all have our moments, and I have surely had mine where I am shocked, but this is all in play and has been for some time. The op-ed is not shocking and I don't look at it and think "this is terrible", instead I think this is obvious. The entire Trump org is a complete disaster and has been since day 1. Seeing people find a way to break party lines and try to communicate with the outside world is what we need. The reason it has to happen like this is because we no longer have a political system/culture that allows it to happen the right way.  If you are bothered that is happened then I'd argue that you are simply not processing what is going on, and has been for some time. @Brisketexan has been overly negative and that isn't good, but he us also sadly right about alot. He is properly projecting where we are going because he sees the failures in the true context of what they show us. 

We have a government that is for the most part run by people in our society who have the worst qualities. They are insulated from any real accountability by a system that has driven its way all the way to a grid locked 45% versus 45% stalemate, and is maintained by a society that CANNOT COMMUNICATE. Its a recipe for what I would term a BROKEN country. And that is who we are. Its just not obvious because you still have your job and your comforts. We are one geopolitical type action, or natural disaster away from seeing our dysfunction put in action. 

I am happy to see the Op-ed (assuming its real, sorry I haven't really followed this at all till just now). It gives me hope that there are good people in the government who understand the structure and integrity of our governance is much more important than anyone's views right now. All of us need to recognize this and act accordingly. 

 

Edited by staboner
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105161

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, staboner said:

@Brisketexan has been overly negative and that isn't good, but he us also sadly right about alot. He is properly projecting where we are going because he sees the failures in the true context of what they show us. 

What I maybe haven't been clear on is that my view is based on the fact that I've seen this exact shit before.  It doesn't matter whether you are running a nation, a church, or a dry cleaning chain -- organizational and leadership dynamics are fundamentally the same.  This shit would be happening if Trump was the CEO of Wendy's -- the company would be in disarray, competitors would be taking advantage of it, and insiders (major franchisees) would be exploiting the vulnerability to extract maximum gain for themselves, etc. etc. and all of it.

 

4 minutes ago, staboner said:

It gives me hope that there are good people in the government who understand the structure and integrity of our governance is much more important than anyone's views right now. All of us need to recognize this and act accordingly. 

The problem is that you are fooled into thinking that the writer has the best interests of the Republic in mind.  He doesn't.  That is an ENTIRELY self-interested perspective on display there.  He believes that he can operate in a way that preserves HIS position, and HIS political agenda....it's about those things, not the Republic.  If the Republic survives, hey, that may be in the author's interest, too (better to rule over a Republic than to rule over rubble), but that's the only value it has to the author -- selfish value.  The author is no hero.  He is a collaborator who wants to paint his collaboration as altruism, when it's really entirely selfish.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, staboner said:

Really? I mean I guess we all have our moments, and I have surely had mine where I am shocked, but this is all in play and has been for some time. The op-ed is not shocking and I don't look at it and think "this is terrible", instead I think this is obvious.

 

the op-ed is absolutely shocking.  The author basically admits that he and other have overthrown the supposedly lawfully elected government of this country.  It is not surprising, however.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20985

Posted
Posted

Hope/optimism by people on any side of the political spectrum is foolish and detrimental IMO in our current landscape. Enough with the American exceptionalism and assumption that this is just a blip.  We need some good ol' fashioned cynicism in regards to our entire government when they decide to TALK a good game. We need nothing but ACTION from decent, moral people moving forward.

It can't be a slow process. The plane has crashed into the fucking mountain. There shouldn't be any nuance here. Do something for the greater good or take a fucking hike. 

 

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8571

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

the op-ed is absolutely shocking.  The author basically admits that he and other have overthrown the supposedly lawfully elected government of this country.  It is not surprising, however.

Yet another reason to push back against the GOP- Not only because of Trump, but because others from their party are subverting the Constitution.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33876

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

the op-ed is absolutely shocking.  The author basically admits that he and other have overthrown the supposedly lawfully elected government of this country.  It is not surprising, however.

unless I don't know english, how can it be shocking but not surprising? it was neither shocking nor surprising to me. and I really can't decide if I'm relieved or terrified

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

unless I don't know english, how can it be shocking but not surprising? it was neither shocking nor surprising to me. and I really can't decide if I'm relieved or terrified

Shocking: 

 
  1. causing indignation or disgust; offensive.
    "shocking behavior"
    • causing a feeling of surprise and dismay.
      "she brought shocking news"
       
       
      Surprising: 
      causing surprise; unexpected.
      "a surprising sequence of events"
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staboner

staboner 4984

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

the op-ed is absolutely shocking.  The author basically admits that he and other have overthrown the supposedly lawfully elected government of this country.  It is not surprising, however.

i guess me and you have a different opinion on what "shocking" means. I would also say "not surprising "= "not shocking".

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17686

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

A junta (just wanted to use the word) controlling the White House has happened before.  During Nixon's last days, his close advisors were basically running everything while he was drunk and/or crazy.  

Or stroked out Wilson.

Or Alzheimer's Reagan.

It's happened before, but that doesn't mean it was good.

Edited by Chad Fuck
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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Or Alzheimer's Reagan.

 

Detour, but I never liked people saying this about Reagan and now it has kind of crept into being an issue of record.  His Alzheimer's didn't start appearing until the 90s.  Here's a quick clip of him in the 1992 convention.  

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105161

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

unless I don't know english, how can it be shocking but not surprising? it was neither shocking nor surprising to me. and I really can't decide if I'm relieved or terrified

This is my take as well.

Seriously, reading that op-ed, my eyebrow didn't even raise once.  It is EXACTLY the dynamic I expected existed.  And yeah, I can't decide whether that's good or bad.  It's like being on fire, and someone puts you out by throwing a bucket of acid on you.  Gee.  Thanks.  This is better....I guess.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

unless I don't know english, how can it be shocking but not surprising? it was neither shocking nor surprising to me. and I really can't decide if I'm relieved or terrified

While I have no idea of the intentions of the author, I think the decision to make it anonymous makes it more influential for a few reasons.

1.  Let’s say a senior administration official put their name on it right out of the gate, how would it have played out?  The person would have been quickly discarded as another whiny liberal trying to sell a book and immediately fired.  See also Sally Yates, James Comey, John Brennan, Preet Bharara.

By writing it anonymously, it keeps the attention on the words of the document, the gravity of the situation, and less on a character to assassinate.

2.  By writing it anonymously, it speaks for more than one person inside the administration.  It gives the message a latent influence of strength in numbers instead of one insider defecting from the regime. 

So, while everyone is saying the author is a gutless coward, which is true, making it anonymous was more strategic than putting their name to it.

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troph

troph 24874

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Posted

If you’re okay with the Op-Ed tell me why that’s better than resigning and telling all, or invoking constitutional process.

 

Here’s why I have a problem with it - it normalizes unlawful behavior making it easier to do next time. And next time the threshold can be lowered to a “I just don’t agree” standard if you can get away with it.

 

At some point we have to stand up and say no to all law breaking in politics. We don’t get our republic back by violating its principles. We can burn it to the ground that way, and if that’s what we want so be it, let anarchy reign.

 

I think trump should be impeached and convicted for financial crimes and collusion/obstruction involving his presidency, the GOP should be strung up by their heels as well, and these hiding cowards should resign and show their faces.

 

And the final return of our republic should be handled with ordinary people taking office.

 

 

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105161

Posted
Posted
Just now, troph said:

I think trump should be impeached and convicted for financial crimes and collusion/obstruction involving his presidency, the GOP should be strung up by their heels as well, and these hiding cowards should resign and show their faces.

I agree, that's what SHOULD happen.

But this is what HAS happened and WILL happen:

1 minute ago, troph said:

We don’t get our republic back by violating its principles. We can burn it to the ground that way, and if that’s what we want so be it, let anarchy reign.

Better get to work on your truck...

latest?cb=20130126155044

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, troph said:

If you’re okay with the Op-Ed tell me why that’s better than resigning and telling all, or invoking constitutional process.

 

I’m not okay with the op-ed, I’m just looking at it from a different perspective.  Resigning and telling all has been done, See Walter Shaub, Omarosa, or even James Comey.  It did nothing.

The thing is, few left in this administration have much credibility to begin with so any defector screaming bloody murder running out the front door will be immediately met with character attacks and credibility problems.

So what can someone do from the inside to provoke action?  An anonymous cry for help in the NYT is one way to do it.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89735

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I suspect the "bad actors" in this case have made the decision that it is better for the Republic to flaunt the President's wishes than to simply resign and wait for his appointment of the next men up who may NOT be trusted to act in the best interests of the country.

That said, I get it -- if 25A has been discussed, it's clearly time.  That's a legitimate alternative, if not wholly radical itself.

That's the problem in a nutshell.  We can't count on Congress to rein in Trump, because they've already failed at doing that multiple times.  Scratch that, they didn't fail, they just flat-out refused to do so.  So you're left with people inside the administration trying to slow-roll things.

If they resign, well what if you get the Secretary of Defense version of Betsy DeVos who says "fuck it, let's kill Assad!" and some of the other actions.  You've condemned hundreds, possibly thousands of US military personnel to death (especially if we were to go after North Korea).  In the case of Assad, I don't see a way that Syria would recover, and if Syria goes down, Iraq follows, and most likely Jordan.  That's going to put Saudi Arabia into play. 

This is so fucking stupid that we have a snowflake toddler sitting in the White House.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5974

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

This is so fucking stupid that we have a snowflake toddler sitting in the White House.

Elected by elder snowflake toddlers that believe in white privilege. Fox should be held accountable as well for growing and cultivating fear for decades.

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