Donald Trump 2018

[Lurch 5919]

Half of the US population believed Obama was the worst president of our time and would vote Putin over Hillary.
The other half believes D Trump is the worst president in the history of the United States and threatens our very democracy.
And most everyone in our country believes those that dont agree with their views are stupid beyond belief (baby killing lib-tards vs Neo-nazi Trumpkins.)
It was NOT like this in the 90s and before. What caused the steady increase in seething hatred for the other side over the past 20 years ? The ease of access of information tailored to your views? I go to Fox news and CNN every day just to see how each side reports the news. It is easy to see that fear mongering and hatred sells and produces clicks and revenue for these sites and many others like them. I think this will continue until it goes too far. What is too far ? I dont know but unless it stops we are going to find out.

Suggested reading
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/american-democracy-is-in-crisis/570394/

[Lurch 5919]

Yeah, so regarding the declassification I'm gonna go with "Good".  The primary negative aspect here is that Trump gets to selectively pick and choose whatever supports his chosen narrative.  I hope that someone goes rogue at the FBI and leaks broad documents and evidence related to the FISA system generally and this investigation specifically. I would prefer that Mueller wrapped up before this all goes down, but that ain't gonna happen. They ain't gonna read the American people in on the full picture. 

 

The primary negative is exposing sources and techniques, placing current and future investigations at risk. He’s declassifying some documents that had previously been released with redactions. Presumably those redactions had a purpose.

[hobbes2702 12771]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, so regarding the declassification I'm gonna go with "Good".  The primary negative aspect here is that Trump gets to selectively pick and choose whatever supports his chosen narrative.  I hope that someone goes rogue at the FBI and leaks broad documents and evidence related to the FISA system generally and this investigation specifically. I would prefer that Mueller wrapped up before this all goes down, but that ain't gonna happen. They ain't gonna read the American people in on the full picture. 

Sources and methods. In the middle of an ongoing national security investigation I would prefer we don’t burn our sources

[DDD Dad 14167]

11 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Trump can release this stuff, but if he's harming the country for personal gain, it should be impeachable. 

Just put it on his tab.

[Anastasis 23375]

Just now, Lurch said:

The primary negative is exposing sources and techniques, placing current and future investigations at risk. He’s declassifying some documents that had previously been released with redactions. Presumably those redactions had a purpose.

Yeah, not really going to lose any sleep over that.  Pull the sources in from the field if necessary. People keep saying that this is the biggest attack against American democracy in modern history.  If that's the case, demonstrating that and the above board origination of the investigation to the American people should be first and foremost.  Sources can be rebuilt.  "Intelligencing is hard" is a bullshit cover used by the IC for a lot of unconstitutional shit. Put it all out in the light of day. I am sensitive to the nature of the ongoing investigation angle however.  If I thought that they would declassify after the investigation was wrapped, I would prefer that approach. 

[woohorn 1131]

If this is really just about misuse of a company car it seems rather petty. Especially in this administration. Seems like the FEMA director should be able to have use of a government car at all times. Unless he custom ordered a gold plated ferrari or something. 

His car also has government driver. He also travels with assistant. Plus, there was some coverup/false reporting of wreck. Pretty sure the investigation is only about the wreck.

Coverup worse than crime/pigs get fat-hogs get slaughtered.

[Lurch 5919]

Yeah, not really going to lose any sleep over that.  Pull the sources in from the field if necessary. People keep saying that this is the biggest attack against American democracy in modern history.  If that's the case, demonstrating that and the above board origination of the investigation to the American people should be first and foremost.  Sources can be rebuilt.  "Intelligencing is hard" is a bullshit cover used by the IC for a lot of unconstitutional shit. Put it all out in the light of day. I am sensitive to the nature of the ongoing investigation angle however.  If I thought that they would declassify after the investigation was wrapped, I would prefer that approach. 

Some of the sources may not be American. Perhaps Russians, in Russia.

And it’s not just current sources. We’ve now told future sources that the US may one decide to out them, which will certainly result in fewer willing to inform. We could literally be talking decades of significant impact.

[Continental Op 3934]

2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

Robot Tailhook is gonna be lit! 

[Anastasis 23375]

9 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Some of the sources may not be American. Perhaps Russians, in Russia.

 

9 minutes ago, Lurch said:

And it’s not just current sources. We’ve now told future sources that the US may one decide to out them, which will certainly result in fewer willing to inform. We could literally be talking decades of significant impact.

It's alright.  Our IC will figure out a way to vacuum up all of their communications and ETL it to a searchable database.  Along with yours and mine. 

[tantric superman 4667]

40 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

Half of the US population believed Obama was the worst president of our time and would vote Putin over Hillary.

The other half believes D Trump is the worst president in the history of the United States and threatens our very democracy.

And most everyone in our country believes those that dont agree with their views are stupid beyond belief (baby killing lib-tards vs Neo-nazi Trumpkins.)

It was NOT like this in the 90s and before. What caused the steady increase in seething hatred for the other side over the past 20 years ? The ease of access of information tailored to your views? I go to Fox news and CNN every day just to see how each side reports the news. It is easy to see that fear mongering and hatred sells and produces clicks and revenue for these sites and many others like them. I think this will continue until it goes too far. What is too far ? I dont know but unless it stops we are going to find out.

I think the problem is that that first half - the Obama haters?   

Morons.

[Lurch 5919]

It's alright.  Our IC will figure out a way to vacuum up all of their communications and ETL it to a searchable database.  Along with yours and mine. 

Yikes.

[Anastasis 23375]

2 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Yikes.

[Brisketexan 104462]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

It's alright.  Our IC will figure out a way to vacuum up all of their communications and ETL it to a searchable database.  Along with yours and mine. 

Fuck that.

Humint is real shit.  Burning sources is real shit, that can end real lives.  AND, insure that we can never credibly gather humint sources again.

Just because the IC has done some bad shit doesn't mean that it's a fucking good idea to burn sources, get people killed, and cripple our ability to gather humint in the future.

I think that cops do some bad shit, and am a huge critic of them...but I don't stand for the proposition that we should fucking ban cops, take away all of their tools, and destroy their ability to get information from third parties for a generation.  Baby and bathwater and all that.

Sorry, I will never be in favor of burning sources, particularly for naked political gain.

[Continental Op 3934]

I am not a Trump supporter but I totally support fucking our intelligence apparatus to help him!  

[Gil Bang 25865]

4 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

I am not a Trump supporter but I totally support fucking our intelligence apparatus to help him!  

You sound like a rational Gary Johnson voter that couldn't stomach Trump or Hillary. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 For a self proclaimed anti-war advocate, Anastasis doesn’t seem to understand much of the work the FBI/NSA/CIA does actually prevents wars through classified sources and methods.  Yeah, let’s blow that all up because Anastasis feels entitled to know.

 

[Tuco 5076]

I suspect the release of the info on the FISA report will show that Britain had provided some intel on Trump, which will be diplomatically troubling, but probably a short term issue. The bigger issue is that Trump is ordering the release of the texts of Comey, Ohr, Strzok, Page, and McCabe. He continues to use his office to attack anyone who had a hand in the investigation.

[retread 2951]

Terrific seeing the POTUS attacking individual Americans who work in the DOJ. Excellent.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I suspect the release of the info on the FISA report will show that Britain had provided some intel on Trump, which will be diplomatically troubling, but probably a short term issue. The bigger issue is that Trump is ordering the release of the texts of Comey, Ohr, Strzok, Page, and McCabe. He continues to use his office to attack anyone who had a hand in the investigation.

Could it be viewed as an illegal order because it’s obstruction of justice?

[Celery Man 20874]

https://hillreporter.com/trumps-apprentice-backstage-tapes-now-in-possession-of-ronan-farrow-according-to-tom-arnold-7448

This whole time is so bizarre.

[Foosters 17691]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 For a self proclaimed anti-war advocate, Anastasis doesn’t seem to understand much of the work the FBI/NSA/CIA does actually prevents wars through classified sources and methods.  Yeah, let’s blow that all up because Anastasis feels entitled to know.

 

no, no, no. He's not entitled to know. He feels that the third of the country that believes this is all a deep-state Hillary/Obama coup d'etat based on anonymous internet postings deserves to know.  

[retread 2951]

Woody Allen's son and Roseanne's ex are just the heroes we need atm. Don't let us down.

[SubliminalHorn 6647]

52 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, not really going to lose any sleep over that.  Pull the sources in from the field if necessary. People keep saying that this is the biggest attack against American democracy in modern history.  If that's the case, demonstrating that and the above board origination of the investigation to the American people should be first and foremost.  Sources can be rebuilt.  "Intelligencing is hard" is a bullshit cover used by the IC for a lot of unconstitutional shit. Put it all out in the light of day. I am sensitive to the nature of the ongoing investigation angle however.  If I thought that they would declassify after the investigation was wrapped, I would prefer that approach. 

Why do you feel like you need to know everything the IC is involved in?

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, retread said:

Woody Allen's son and Roseanne's ex are just the heroes we need atm. Don't let us down.

Allegedly

[Incredulity 11532]

2 minutes ago, retread said:

Woody Allen's son and Roseanne's ex are just the heroes we need atm. Don't let us down.

Isn’t he actually Frank’s?

 

[hobbes2702 12771]

Just now, SubliminalHorn said:

Why do you feel like you need to know everything the IC is involved in?

Because he doesn’t believe the government should keep secrets from its citizens. I tend to agree with him there however it’s a bit utopian imo. They will always hide things from us and, while unfortunate, thems the breaks

[SubliminalHorn 6647]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Because he doesn’t believe the government should keep secrets from its citizens. I tend to agree with him there however it’s a bit utopian imo. They will always hide things from us and, while unfortunate, thems the breaks

That’s silly to say our government shouldn’t keep secrets. While these secrets can and have been abused, a lot of them are maintained to keep our country safe. No, we as individual citizens don’t need to know everything our intelligence agencies are up to. 

[Lurch 5919]

Why do you feel like you need to know everything the IC is involved in?

That’s my concern. What are we throwing away now? Terrorist cells, nuclear sales, massive fraud, government overreach? What catastrophic event will occur in the future that could otherwise be prevented?

Cute shrug. Teehee.

[Chooky 13292]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

The military says that illegal orders must not be followed. What’s the DOJ’s stance on that? Because I really have no idea. I would assume/hope its the same. We are in uncharted waters. 

[Message Board User 12389]

Kellyanne must have stolen his phone...

 

[kevwun 15595]

45 minutes ago, retread said:

Woody Allen's son and Roseanne's ex are just the heroes we need atm. Don't let us down.

You mean Frank Sinatra's son.  Ronan is going to do it his way.

Edited September 18, 2018 by kevwun

[Mojo Hand 4580]

If Ronan comes up with the tapes, just rename the pulitzer after him.   Dude has been on fire. 

[Anastasis 23375]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 For a self proclaimed anti-war advocate, Anastasis doesn’t seem to understand much of the work the FBI/NSA/CIA does actually prevents wars through classified sources and methods.  Yeah, let’s blow that all up because Anastasis feels entitled to know.

Lulz. I know guys. We've been through this before. The MIC and the IC has brought upon us the greatest period of western european stability in the history of the world. We should rejoice.  As long as you aren't brown in general, or S. American, C. American, African, Middle Eastern, S. Asian, or S.E. Asian  in particular, it's been a hell of a ride. I mean, all the peace and stability brought to Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Guatemala, Cambodia,  Syria, Indonesia, Lebanon, etc. Success after success after success is promoting the American principles of peace and democracy throughout the world. Feel that motherfucking freedom bitches.  Declassifying materials related to an investigation of a domestic election is going to blow the lid off our ability to keep the world safe. 

[Yuk 1505]

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

[Anastasis 23375]

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

Because he doesn’t believe the government should keep secrets from its citizens. I tend to agree with him there however it’s a bit utopian imo. They will always hide things from us and, while unfortunate, thems the breaks

 

1 hour ago, SubliminalHorn said:

That’s silly to say our government shouldn’t keep secrets. While these secrets can and have been abused, a lot of them are maintained to keep our country safe. No, we as individual citizens don’t need to know everything our intelligence agencies are up to. 

Secrets are one thing.  Secrets that when revealed by whistle blowers demonstrate a consistent pattern of shitting on the floor, wiping their ass with the consitution, and then setting the whole mess on fire....well, maybe somebody should argue for the utopia where our IC actually acknowledges the constitution. As much of a waste of time as it may be. 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

1 hour ago, Yuk said:

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

The very idea that Donald motherfucking Trump has the ability to do anything in this paragraph is fucking laughable.

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

2 hours ago, UTGrad98 said:

Half of the US population believed Obama was the worst president of our time and would vote Putin over Hillary.

(...)

It was NOT like this in the 90s

The hell it wasn't. The right went batshit crazy when Clinton beat Bush. I saw the first "Impeach Clinton" bumper sticker a week after he was elected. That's when Rush Limbaugh really took off. Go to YouTube and search for "The Clinton Chronicles." It was a propaganda hit piece distributed by Jerry Falwell that painted the Clintons as murderers and drug dealers. Hillary was right when she talked about a "vast right-wing conspiracy."

The 90's is when it all started and it was the Republicans who started it. They like to say it was the Democrats who started it when they blocked the nomination of Robert Bork to the Supreme Court. Robert Fucking Bork, the guy who helped Nixon fire the Special Counsel investigating his crimes. Fuck him and fuck Reagan for nominating him in the first place. Of all the fucking nerve. The blame is 100% on them because they think they're above the law and that it's some kind of cosmic disaster when the other party occupies the White House. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by WhatTheBuck

[bad_teammate 13125]

As I've said from the beginning, my best hope for Trump's presidency is him and the IC/MIC standing on top of a hill beating each other to death.

I literally cannot scrounge up a fuck to give about the IC.

"They prevent war!" my fucking ass. They cause war. They cause countless deaths. They cause economic collapse. Fuck them.

[retread 2951]

19 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The hell it wasn't. The right went batshit crazy when Clinton beat Bush. I saw the first "Impeach Clinton" bumper sticker a week after he was elected. That's when Rush Limbaugh really took off.  

Limbaugh is the pied piper of what has become the Trumpkins. His acolytes, like Hannity and Levin, have also done their part. Rush is one big reason that the right is so polarized against Hillary. He hates the Clintons and so do his listeners. He has railed against the Ds/Clintons for 25 years and demonized them on a daily basis.

He's one big reason that the Trumpkins feel like it's just and right to give it to the Libtards. Now that the Rs are in power, no matter the means, the ends justify keeping the Libs down.

Edited September 18, 2018 by retread

[Gatorubet 30064]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Kellyanne must have stolen his phone...

 

And some, I assume, are good people.

[Mdhorn 5908]

4 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

The military says that illegal orders must not be followed. What’s the DOJ’s stance on that? Because I really have no idea. I would assume/hope its the same. We are in uncharted waters. 

Wait, does that mean the military, DOJ and FBI are all deep state?  Da Fuq?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Mdhorn

[DixonHur 11074]

Whether or not the Government should keep secrets or not is irrelevant here.  This isn't about shedding the light on corruption.  This is 100% about Trump being a petty, vindictive asshole, and using his power, not for the benefit of the country, but for his revenge on people who talk bad about him.

The question is, what's the next step?  Can an injunction be issued?  If so, who would have to start the process? 

[Mdhorn 5908]

Where was Trump regarding transparency when he was meeting with Putin in Helsinki?

[conVINCEd 21468]

8 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Where was Trump regarding transparency when he was meeting with Putin in Helsinki?

On both of his knees.

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

5 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

I didn't know where to put this..so i drop it here.

 

The next time DOTARD or Nielsen get off a plane outside of the US, they should be arrested and tried in the Hague for crimes against humanity.

Also, fuck any agent, manager, functionary, bureaucrat, or even janitor who aided or had anything to do with any of this shit.

[RomaVicta 29756]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Lulz. I know guys. We've been through this before. The MIC and the IC has brought upon us the greatest period of western european stability in the history of the world. We should rejoice.  As long as you aren't brown in general, or S. American, C. American, African, Middle Eastern, S. Asian, or S.E. Asian  in particular, it's been a hell of a ride. I mean, all the peace and stability brought to Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Guatemala, Cambodia,  Syria, Indonesia, Lebanon, etc. Success after success after success is promoting the American principles of peace and democracy throughout the world. Feel that motherfucking freedom bitches.  Declassifying materials related to an investigation of a domestic election is going to blow the lid off our ability to keep the world safe. 

If you've read a lot of my posts, you likely know that I agree with your account of American foreign policy particularly in Latin America. We have shown, as a government, we will abandon any principle if it benefits American business interests. Non-governmental Americans, a great many Christian organizations, have done great things.

That said, it is inapt to propose or believe that Trump's actions to expose the actions of the intelligence community are a crusade aligned with the above paragraph. He wouldn't give a shit if he actually understood what he was doing. He certainly doesn't give a shit about consequences for something he hasn't bothered to understand.

The message that seems to be spreading through the Trump apologist community is that Trump is gallantly fighting the IC to make America better. It would disappoint me to see you take this position. You're too smart for that.

Edited September 18, 2018 by RomaVicta
Disastrous grammar.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

4 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

If Ronan comes up with the tapes, just rename the pulitzer after him.   Dude has been on fire. 

Frank and Mia done all right. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

[Anastasis 23375]

4 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

That said, it is inapt to propose or believe that Trump's actions to expose the actions of the intelligence community are a crusade aligned with the above paragraph.

The message that seems to be spreading through the Trump apologist community is that Trump is gallantly fighting the IC to make America better.

I think that Trump's interests, in this situation and basically all others, are aligned to Trump's interests, and that's about it.

As I mentioned up thread, from my perspective, primary problem is that the declassification will be selective and cherry picked, not more broadly related to the FISA system in general, and that the release is taking place prior to Mueller wrapping up with Russia. FISA abuses aside as a separate topic, I am on record back on the scat board regarding the need to declassify broadly materials related to the Russia investigation when the findings are released. I think that it is important for the intelligence apparatus to have some transparency on this one. Even if that means making some sacrifices. If minimal redaction is necessary to protect  human intelligence assets that cannot be protected by other means, fine. Minimal redaction should be carried out by an independent, non partisan panel. But information and materials should be broadly declassified at the conclusion of the investigation.

In reality, what I think that we will find with this particular release is that the materials are more similar in content to the Nunes nothingburger than a gallant and striking offensive move against unconstitutional IC actions. The latter would require a principled boldness and focus that President Trump does not possess. I think that the hand wringing taking place about the removal of redaction from portions of a FISA application and the release of Ohr's notes is just that, hand wringing. But OMG it will undermine the CIA's ability to spread peace throughout the world! Get the fuck out with that jingoistic bullshit.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]