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Donald Trump 2018

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28930

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, retread said:

The Kushner stuff has been out there for a long time now. Like foreign govts targeting him as being malleable and naive, endless revisions of his SF-86, reading the PDB without proper clearance, etc. It's just so troubling. Complete disregard for the rule of law and for ethical norms.

From the NYT article:

"It was around the time of the White House visit in March 2017 that senior officials in the State Department and the Pentagon began to worry about the one-on-one communications between Prince Mohammed — who is known to favor the online messaging service WhatsApp — and Mr. Kushner. 'There was a risk the Saudis were playing him,' one former White House official said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations."

Lol. Ya think?

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Goredho

Goredho 17656

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Just imagine the inevitable political catastrophe that could be avoided if the GOP coerced Trump to resign right now. 

This is like watching a bunch of drug addicted kids that just needed a good family intervention before they destroyed their entire community. 

Yeah, imagine if Trump wasn’t Trump.  I mean, he can’t be convinced of anything by anyone.  Whatever else he is, Trump is one hard-nosed motherfucker.  It would be a tremendous virtue if he had any grounding whatsoever in moral and ethical judgment.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46166

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3 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Yeah, stretch it out.

Why?  I understand that this nightmare is a ton of fun, but I'm ready to wake up.  Seriously, the longer he's in office, the more damage done.  

And if the idea is that the Senate isn't going to convict and therefore the House should wait to impeach for its implications on the 2020 election, well then we're already dead.

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NBMisha

NBMisha 224

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22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Why?  I understand that this nightmare is a ton of fun, but I'm ready to wake up.  Seriously, the longer he's in office, the more damage done.  

And if the idea is that the Senate isn't going to convict and therefore the House should wait to impeach for its implications on the 2020 election, well then we're already dead.

I think the idea is to hold hearings into 2020, exposing more and more and more, putting pub Senators up for 2020 re-election under incredible building pressure.  They may then divorce Trump in a (hopefully futile) attempt to save their seat (ass).  I know the idea of keeping Trump around longer simply to help with Senate elections seems shitty, but please be reminded of the Brisket take on Senate pubs:  will never, under any circumstances, convict.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4846

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I say impeach trump ASAP, and then Pence in 2020.  I also believe even if the impeachment vote never comes, that just what the dems use to call for the impeachment process will push dotus hard enough to crack even more and make the 25A a reasonable option.  

I have a feeling there will be at least a handful of implicated republican senators that can also be added to the Pence rodeo.  But first rid the country of trump and company as potus to avoid even further damage.    He is dangerous and unstable, and already we need to start repairing what he has done.  Waiting for the ideal political time is self serving and dangerous if it is too apparent.  There will be enough legal shit he and his family will be faced with to keep him in the negative news for a very long time.    Strengthening the party won't matter if the country burns down while we wait for the right opportunity. 

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retread

retread 2951

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Posted (edited)

May 18 article  http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/05/trump-why-didnt-fbi-warn-me-about-russia-it-did.html?gtm=top&gtm=top

Quote

In fact, the FBI did tell Trump. As NBC reported last December, in “a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials” the candidate “was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign.”

At the time, of course, Trump was publicly dismissing the FBI’s warnings that Russia had stolen Democratic emails, insisting it might be China or a 400-pound man, while also publicly asking Russia to expand its email theft. His campaign was also swarming with secret Russia contacts, most prominently a meeting in Trump Tower with Russian spies promising dirt on his opponent.

 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46166

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6 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I say impeach trump ASAP, and then Pence in 2020.  I also believe even if the impeachment vote never comes, that just what the dems use to call for the impeachment process will push dotus hard enough to crack even more and make the 25A a reasonable option.  

I have a feeling there will be at least a handful of implicated republican senators that can also be added to the Pence rodeo.  But first rid the country of trump and company as potus to avoid even further damage.    He is dangerous and unstable, and already we need to start repairing what he has done.  Waiting for the ideal political time is self serving and dangerous if it is too apparent.  There will be enough legal shit he and his family will be faced with to keep him in the negative news for a very long time.    Strengthening the party won't matter if the country burns down while we wait for the right opportunity. 

This.  This here.  This is what I think.

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Post Oak

Post Oak 20568

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Posted
8 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I say impeach trump ASAP, and then Pence in 2020.  I also believe even if the impeachment vote never comes, that just what the dems use to call for the impeachment process will push dotus hard enough to crack even more and make the 25A a reasonable option.  

I have a feeling there will be at least a handful of implicated republican senators that can also be added to the Pence rodeo.  But first rid the country of trump and company as potus to avoid even further damage.    He is dangerous and unstable, and already we need to start repairing what he has done.  Waiting for the ideal political time is self serving and dangerous if it is too apparent.  There will be enough legal shit he and his family will be faced with to keep him in the negative news for a very long time.    Strengthening the party won't matter if the country burns down while we wait for the right opportunity. 

This what I always come back too.  Trump wasnt the only one compromised.  Who and how much, I don't know but he's not the only one.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

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Posted

NYT reporting that Kushner spoke with and offered advice to MBS AFTER the Khashoggi murder.   Why do we have a senior WH aide speaking to foreign leaders unofficially about a murder of a US resident?  In what universe shouldn't this be investigated?   

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/08/politics/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/index.html

Does anyone not believe this is about investments either made or promised to Kushner to keep his family business afloat?  Of course, given that Kushner's family primarily deal with foreign investors, it's doesn't appear easy to track the source of any investment.   

But then again perhaps this is just Kushner trying to informally talk to any and all foreign leaders to speed up diplomacy...

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happyfunball

happyfunball 481

Posted
Posted
NYT reporting that Kushner spoke with and offered advice to MBS AFTER the Khashoggi murder.   Why do we have a senior WH aide speaking to foreign leaders unofficially about a murder of a US resident?  In what universe shouldn't this be investigated?   
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/08/politics/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/index.html
Does anyone not believe this is about investments either made or promised to Kushner to keep his family business afloat?  Of course, given that Kushner's family primarily deal with foreign investors, it's doesn't appear easy to track the source of any investment.   
But then again perhaps this is just Kushner trying to informally talk to any and all foreign leaders to speed up diplomacy...


KSA funding Kush is pennies to them. They just wanted to ensure that they can deploy their money globally without US interference. KSA is one of the largest source of funds for start-ups through a network of VCs including SoftBank.

They are obtaining IP via investment to modernize their economy and deploy capital
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13731

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I know this is approaching conspiracy theory but you also have Kushner's younger brother recently closing his latest VC fund to investors.  Raised $1B.   

There's nothing inherently wrong with very wealthy business people from holding public office but it should lead them to be even more transparent to eliminate even the slightest hint of corruption.  We seem to be going to opposite way.   We trust, don't question or investigate, and then perhaps we would do something if evidence appears on its own.  

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Tuco

Tuco 5093

Posted
Posted
NYT reporting that Kushner spoke with and offered advice to MBS AFTER the Khashoggi murder.   Why do we have a senior WH aide speaking to foreign leaders unofficially about a murder of a US resident?  In what universe shouldn't this be investigated?   
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/08/politics/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/index.html
Does anyone not believe this is about investments either made or promised to Kushner to keep his family business afloat?  Of course, given that Kushner's family primarily deal with foreign investors, it's doesn't appear easy to track the source of any investment.   
But then again perhaps this is just Kushner trying to informally talk to any and all foreign leaders to speed up diplomacy...

I’m more curious about Kush’s texts prior to the murder. There is a non-trivial chance the President’s son-in-law could be charged as an accessory to murder of a US resident and Washington Post reporter. If this fucking idiot at all gave a head nod to plans prior to the execution, he should be locked up a long time.
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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4846

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1 hour ago, retread said:

When nearly the entire R caucus keeps its mouth shut, there is a lot of kompromat in the Capitol.

I just fear that after trump and team get taken down, that everyone will breathe a sigh of relief, and let his enablers (cruz, graham, nunes etc) and his prompters (hannity, pirro, dershowitz, et al) get off completely.  I think Mueller has enough on Trump already, but he is using the power of his SC to gather enough evidence on all the rest to implicate them so much it cannot be excused and ignored.

He realizes that Trump is the scab, but to really remedy the situation, he needs to put enough in front of the public that is forces us to root out the real evil, those who built the system that put Trump and his ideals of fascism, racism, and other isms center stage, fracturing our country and stalling its progress at the greatest nation in the world.

This thing needs to go Nuremberg.  Just taking down trump won't be enough.  You need to hold accountable those who allowed, or even fostered what we have now.  You need the henchmen, the legal weasels,  the PR illusionists, the bagmen and the money people behind all this.  And yes, you need to give the idiots who voted for and still triumph this fool a healthy dose of crow and castor oil to help them accept their own lesson.  These people have been huckstered, but I think the scales can fall from most of their eyes.  They may never admit out loud they got duped, but they will accept it and quietly withdraw their support.

Then we have to figure out how to change our country, get it back on track.  But right now we don't even have a clue where we are headed as a country. I feel that has been our problem since NASA basically got shelved.  From the beginning, we had a country to carve out and establish up until the world wars.  Then we became the policemen of the world, the standard bearer for democracy.  We had our own human rights and social ills we were addressing at home.  We competed with Russia in the exploration of space.  But now, since then, what do we hang our hat on?  What are our goals as a country? 

We could take up the mantel of renewable energy, education, healthcare, climate control, or human rights.    But we go backwards under Trump in these areas.  We need to re-evaluate why we are where we are and where we want to go.   Mueller is giving us the ammunition to clean house and right the ship.  We need to start looking past Trump and into doing that house cleaning and re focusing our country.  Once we have a focus a lot of our division will go away. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

I say impeach trump ASAP, and then Pence in 2020.  I also believe even if the impeachment vote never comes, that just what the dems use to call for the impeachment process will push dotus hard enough to crack even more and make the 25A a reasonable option.  

I have a feeling there will be at least a handful of implicated republican senators that can also be added to the Pence rodeo.  But first rid the country of trump and company as potus to avoid even further damage.    He is dangerous and unstable, and already we need to start repairing what he has done.  Waiting for the ideal political time is self serving and dangerous if it is too apparent.  There will be enough legal shit he and his family will be faced with to keep him in the negative news for a very long time.    Strengthening the party won't matter if the country burns down while we wait for the right opportunity. 

This is the idealistic take and it’s not wrong but it’s not practical or realistic.  I think it’s important to remember Trump is a symptom/consequence more than the underlying problem.  Yes, he’s dangerous/unstable and we’d be better off without him as president tomorrow. 

However, it’s very important to remember impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.  

The goal should be to REMOVE Trump, not just impeach him immediately for short term political gains only to be not convicted in a Senate trial.  

If you’re serious about removing Trump, it’s going to be a long arduous process because you are going to have to make it painful for Senate Republicans to acquit Trump in a trial. 

You will need mountains of evidence and testimony in the congressional public record.  We need to not only remove Trump but we need to ensure this NEVER happens again.  The only way to do that is to blast as much sunlight as possible on the corruption and hold people accountable.

The 25A is more difficult than impeachment because it requires a higher congressional bar to  clear.  I think it’s completely out of the question. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is the idealistic take and it’s not wrong but it’s not practical or realistic.  I think it’s important to remember Trump is a symptom/consequence more than the underlying problem.  Yes, he’s dangerous/unstable and we’d be better off without him as president tomorrow. 

However, it’s very important to remember impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.  

The goal should be to REMOVE Trump, not just impeach him immediately for short term political gains only to be not convicted in a Senate trial.  

If you’re serious about removing Trump, it’s going to be a long arduous process because you are going to have to make it painful for Senate Republicans to acquit Trump in a trial. 

You will need mountains of evidence and testimony in the congressional public record.  We need to not only remove Trump but we need to ensure this NEVER happens again.  The only way to do that is to blast as much sunlight as possible on the corruption and hold people accountable.

The 25A is more difficult than impeachment because it requires a higher congressional bar to  clear.  I think it’s completely out of the question. 

Only Republicans can remove Donald Trump.

It's up to them. If they ever turn, he's finished.

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4846

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is the idealistic take and it’s not wrong but it’s not practical or realistic.  I think it’s important to remember Trump is a symptom/consequence more than the underlying problem.  Yes, he’s dangerous/unstable and we’d be better off without his as president tomorrow. 

However, it’s very important to remember impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.  

The goal should be to REMOVE Trump, not just impeach him immediately for short term political gains only to be not convicted in a Senate trial.  

If you’re serious about removing Trump, it’s going to be a long arduous process because you are going to have to make it painful for Senate Republicans to acquit Trump in a trial. 

You will need mountains of evidence and testimony in the congressional public record.  We need to not only remove Trump but we need to ensure this NEVER happens again.  The only way to do that is to blast as much sunlight as possible on the corruption and hold people accountable.

The 25A is more difficult than impeachment because it requires a higher congressional bar to  clear.  I think it’s completely out of the question. 

I agree, and by impeach, i meant start to wheels in motion, do his first.  Whether you actually get to remove or not you at least start to reveal all the reasons he should not be holding office.  Once that ball starts rolling, he would be pretty much powerless and ineffective as a Potus.    I think that the 25A high bars would be easier  to clear because of the rubble of the trump dynasty will be a huge booster step.

I think i expanded on my thoughts in my second attempt concerning the system that made trump an acceptable candidate, much less president.

 

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pyrohornIII

pyrohornIII 4846

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Only Republicans can remove Donald Trump.

It's up to them. If they ever turn, he's finished.

They can't turn.  They are too complicit.  See NRA, Cambridge Analytic.   Put up a front, obstruct and hope public opinion can counter anything Mueller can throw at them.   It's sink or swim on the USS dotard for a lot of them.   Some of them like Ryan have already abandoned ship and hope to be far enough away as to not be pulled under by the vacuum when it plunges to its final resting place.

Edited by pyrohornIII
damn apostrophe gets me now and then
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

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Posted
2 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

They can't turn.  They are too complicit.  See NRA, Cambridge Analytic.   Put up a front, obstruct and hope public opinion can counter anything Mueller can throw at them.   It's sink or swim on the USS dotard for a lot of them.   Some of them like Ryan have already abandoned ship and hope to be far enough away as to not be pulled under by the vacuum when it plunges to it's final resting place.

I agree.

It's amazing anyone still votes for a politician associated with the Republican Party. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28930

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Posted
5 hours ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, imagine if Trump wasn’t Trump.  I mean, he can’t be convinced of anything by anyone.  Whatever else he is, Trump is one hard-nosed motherfucker.  It would be a tremendous virtue if he had any grounding whatsoever in moral and ethical judgment.

No, it wouldn't. Narcissism is not a virtue. Willful ignorance is not a virtue. Intellectual incuriosity is not a virtue. The obstinate adherence to a position when faced with contradictory evidence is not virtuous behavior. Trump's version of "hard-nosed" makes him a clueless moron. There's no virtue in that. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106899

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Posted
They can't turn.  They are too complicit.  See NRA, Cambridge Analytic.   Put up a front, obstruct and hope public opinion can counter anything Mueller can throw at them.   It's sink or swim on the USS dotard for a lot of them.   Some of them like Ryan have already abandoned ship and hope to be far enough away as to not be pulled under by the vacuum when it plunges to it's final resting place.

They CAN’T turn. They can’t win anything without the vote of their base. And their base is a cult of trump. Any betrayal of their god will be punished. I’d call it a dilemma, but it’s no dilemma at all. If you depend on GOP voters at all, you have to be loyal to trump. If you rep a district or state that has a better g chunk of Dems and independents, association with Trump is toxic. You are caught between groups that won’t forgive you for your betrayal/loyalty to Trump. As a repub, it’s a no-win.
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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

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7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No, it wouldn't. Narcissism is not a virtue. Willful ignorance is not a virtue. Intellectual incuriosity is not a virtue. The obstinate adherence to a position when faced with contradictory evidence is not virtuous behavior. Trump's version of "hard-nosed" makes him a clueless moron. There's no virtue in that. 

Donald Trump and his cult of personality aren't doing much for the notion of American exceptionalism.

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