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Posted (edited)
  On 12/9/2018 at 5:24 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

No, it wouldn't. Narcissism is not a virtue. Willful ignorance is not a virtue. Intellectual incuriosity is not a virtue. The obstinate adherence to a position when faced with contradictory evidence is not virtuous behavior. Trump's version of "hard-nosed" makes him a clueless moron. There's no virtue in that. 

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If you are smart and right, obstinance absolutely can be a virtue.  Look at Herman staying the course after Maryland.  Churchill at the start of WWII.  Trump just happens to be a clueless moron who is obstinate.  His obstinance does not make him a clueless moron.

Edited by Goredho
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 5:08 PM, pyrohornIII said:

I agree, and by impeach, i meant start to wheels in motion, do his first.  Whether you actually get to remove or not you at least start to reveal all the reasons he should not be holding office.  Once that ball starts rolling, he would be pretty much powerless and ineffective as a Potus.    I think that the 25A high bars would be easier  to clear because of the rubble of the trump dynasty will be a huge booster step.

I think i expanded on my thoughts in my second attempt concerning the system that made trump an acceptable candidate, much less president.

 

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All the reasons to impeach need to be overwhelming and public before the impeachment process starts. Mueller needs to have such clear evidence of fraud and conspiracy with a hostile foreign power that senate Republicans will be forced to go along, just like with Nixon.

If Dems rush to impeach before they have concrete evidence of serious crimes, it will backfire on them, the R's will use it to their advantage in 2020, and Trump will get reelected. 

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 5:54 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

All the reasons to impeach need to be overwhelming and public before the impeachment process starts. Mueller needs to have such clear evidence of fraud and conspiracy with a hostile foreign power that senate Republicans will be forced to go along, just like with Nixon.

If Dems rush to impeach before they have concrete evidence of serious crimes, it will backfire on them, the R's will use it to their advantage in 2020, and Trump will get reelected. 

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The SDNY has already accused him of committing two felonies. There's no telling what Mueller has in store.

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 5:38 PM, Goredho said:

If you are smart and right, obstinance absolutely can be a virtue.  Look at Herman staying the course after Maryland.  Churchill at the start of WWII.  Trump just happens to be a clueless moron who is obstinate.  His obstinance does not make him a clueless moron.

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If you're smart, you're open to the possibility that you're wrong. Trump isn't. He's a narcissist.

Having the courage of your convictions is one thing. Churchill also made mistakes and changed course. Hitler was obstinate too but he couldn't admit he was wrong and clung to a losing strategy. Trump is no Churchill and that wouldn't change if he suddenly wasn't completely amoral. 

But yes, if he was Winston Churchill instead of Donald Trump then he would be a good leader. I'll grant you that. 

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:08 PM, David Dennison said:

The SDNY has already accused him of committing two felonies. There's no telling what Mueller has in store.

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I know. But we need to wait and see what Mueller has. Impeachment needs to be a slam dunk. Voting Trump out in 2020 has to be the #1 priority unless/until it is. 

Posted

Lulz. Thousands of rules. 

 

I have a quick fix. Make all contributions to a politician illegal. Everything. Set up the system where people run and are elected based on strength of ideas and not how rich and corrupt they can get. 

  • Like 4
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:26 PM, Junior Miller said:

Lulz. Thousands of rules. 

 

I have a quick fix. Make all contributions to a politician illegal. Everything. Set up the system where people run and are elected based on strength of ideas and not how rich and corrupt they can get. 

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As great as that sounds, it's an unconstitutional restriction of speech.

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:14 PM, retread said:

But it's complicated

 

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Is it really that hard to know that it's probably illegal to pay off a pair of mistresses to keep them silent while you're running for president? Do you really have to consult the rule book on that one?

Makes you wonder what skeletons Rand has in his closet. 

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:20 PM, JimmyJames said:

The republicans won’t turn on trumpy bear because of campaign finance violations. Mueller will have to have more than that and I suspect he already does. 

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Yeah, we still have emoluments, tax fraud, tax evasion and money laundering to go, much less all the extortion and other shady shit that goes along with that.  At some point enough will be enough for some of these people.  Maybe not all, but hopefully enough to minimize the voice of the hangers on.   This is why the lunatics of Q are important to him.  If that can be exposed as the fraud it is with unimpeachable evidence, a lot trump base fades away.

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:26 PM, Junior Miller said:

Lulz. Thousands of rules. 

 

I have a quick fix. Make all contributions to a politician illegal. Everything. Set up the system where people run and are elected based on strength of ideas and not how rich and corrupt they can get. 

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Unfortunately, this doesn't fix anything and is the easiest and fastest way to ensure no one but the ultra rich can even have a chance at getting elected. Being seen and heard costs a lot of money. I'm not a fan of his, but for example: Bernie Sanders had a net worth of around 500k when he started running. He's not a pauper by any means, but there's no way someone like him could have sustained a campaign for any amount of time without campaign contributions.

Candidates need to be able to fund themselves through contribution, it's the only real way to level the playing field. However, our regulation of campaign finance is a complete joke and needs to be entirely revamped.

Posted
  On 12/8/2018 at 11:39 PM, Chet Steadman said:

Hugo Stiglitz, 11,999 posts later and still going strong. +rep

What percentage do you suppose have been about Trump?

 

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Does this bother you or really get under your skin?  Because if it's not your posts, life, optional read, wtf do you care?  Opt out--it's well within your power, Thanks for your concern, buh bye.  

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:39 PM, pyrohornIII said:
Yeah, we still have emoluments, tax fraud, tax evasion and money laundering to go, much less all the extortion and other shady shit that goes along with that.  At some point enough will be enough for some of these people.  Maybe not all, but hopefully enough to minimize the voice of the hangers on.   This is why the lunatics of Q are important to him.  If that can be exposed as the fraud it is with unimpeachable evidence, a lot trump base fades away.
Yup. I think the dem Congress should hold some hearings on at least emoluments before impeaching. Get the information on how trump is using the office for personal benefit -- additional grounds beyond Mueller and the sdny accusations
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Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 6:58 PM, Mdhorn said:

Does this bother you or really get under your skin?  Because if it's not your posts, life, optional read, wtf do you care?  Opt out--it's well within your power, Thanks for your concern, buh bye.  

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What in the world are you talking about?  I’ve probably given Hugo no less than 50 upvotes in this thread alone.  

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 5:25 PM, Brisketexan said:


They CAN’T turn. They can’t win anything without the vote of their base. And their base is a cult of trump. Any betrayal of their god will be punished. I’d call it a dilemma, but it’s no dilemma at all. If you depend on GOP voters at all, you have to be loyal to trump. If you rep a district or state that has a better g chunk of Dems and independents, association with Trump is toxic. You are caught between groups that won’t forgive you for your betrayal/loyalty to Trump. As a repub, it’s a no-win.

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Trump and his base lost Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania,and Arizona last month.  He threw endorsements out on twitter like they were confetti, and he campaigned at numerous rallies throughout these states for candidates who lost.  

He wasn’t even able to help a decorated fighter pilot beat a bisexual atheist in a state he won in 2016.  

And he’s put Georgia, NC, and Florida into play - states that were already very tight for him.   

SS Trump is taking on water, and a whole lot of Republicans have got about 18 months to figure out how to ditch him.  

And they have to ditch him.  They have no other choice.  Without Hillary on the ballot, his touch is not golden, as was shown last month.  And that was before SDNY.  

Posted (edited)
  On 12/9/2018 at 7:49 PM, Chet Steadman said:

What in the world are you talking about?  I’ve probably given Hugo no less than 50 upvotes in this thread alone.  

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I'm used to others pointing out his post count to discredit.  I'm insane sometimes.  

Edited by Mdhorn
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Posted

I agree with Rand. A minor clerical error filling out paperwork should only be a fine. Last time I checked, that’s exactly how it’s penalized. But paying off hookers/mistresses, either with personal funds or campaign dollars, is a bit different than a clerical error

Posted

The fact that Trump was cheating on his wife and paying off women is obviously bad and it is clealy a crime.  IMO not something worthy of jail or impeachment though.  A huge fine, sure.  Is it something for voters to consider and his opponents to dog him on yep. 

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 8:02 PM, Ted Lange said:

The fact that Trump was cheating on his wife and paying off women is obviously bad and it is clealy a crime.  IMO not something worthy of jail or impeachment though.  A huge fine, sure.  Is it something for voters to consider and his opponents to dog him on yep. 

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Not really a secret that Trump fucks around on his wife. It was baked into the choice that the electorate made. But fucking paying off the whores using campaign funds is illegal and campaign finance crimes should be punished. 

  • Like 2
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 8:02 PM, Ted Lange said:

The fact that Trump was cheating on his wife and paying off women is obviously bad and it is clealy a crime.  IMO not something worthy of jail or impeachment though.  A huge fine, sure.  Is it something for voters to consider and his opponents to dog him on yep. 

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It's the appetizer portion of a seven course meal, and that doesn't count drinks!

 

Posted

In fact, instead of paying her off, he should have held a press conference and bragged about raw dogging a porn star.  Could have dropped a nod to the playmate as well.  The evangelicals weren't going to vote for Hillary, and the rest of the GOP base would high five him. 

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 8:02 PM, Ted Lange said:

The fact that Trump was cheating on his wife and paying off women is obviously bad and it is clealy a crime.  IMO not something worthy of jail or impeachment though.  A huge fine, sure.  Is it something for voters to consider and his opponents to dog him on yep. 

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Illegally using campaign funds to squash news that the candidate was sleeping around on his pregnant wife with a porn star is absolutely impeachable.  I don't really care if it's worthy of jail time.  But the entire purpose of campaign finance laws is to stop candidates from pulling one over on the electorate.  Trump violated the law to keep his misconduct from the public.  We might well have President Clinton now if he hadn't illegally paid them off and they came forward after Grab em by the Pussy tape.  On what planet should a president who committed felony campaign finance violations to hide the truth about his utter lack of decency be able to stay in office?

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Posted

I can just see us debating if Obama should be impeached because he orchestrated an illegal conspiracy to payoff a pornstar to conceal from voters an affair while his wife was pregnant.

Yeah, it would be hotly debated on this forum. 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 8:06 PM, Anastasis said:

Not really a secret that Trump fucks around on his wife. It was baked into the choice that the electorate made. But fucking paying off the whores using campaign funds is illegal and campaign finance crimes should be punished. 

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To be clear, I absolutely think it should be punished. The degree to which is all I’m talking about. 

 

Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 9:01 PM, Ted Lange said:

To be clear, I absolutely think it should be punished. The degree to which is all I’m talking about. 

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How about to the degree that the law states? Federal campaign finance violations, along with perjury for some of his peanut gallery as well as possibly lying to congress for trump himself.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 12/9/2018 at 8:31 PM, 4th&Five said:

Half the country thinks it’s worse to stay with a cheater than actually being one. 

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No. They don't.  That same half of the country thinks Melanie is a saint and how dare you criticize her.

They just have to demonize dem women, particularly Hillary, Waters, Pelosi, and Cortez, and tomorrow's next target.  Actual concern about their conduct is far secondary.

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