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Donald Trump 2018

TheFlyingBoat

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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Beyond the foreign policy implications, people need to recognize what perpetual war has done to our culture.  We have been become a militant people.  Because soldiers are constantly at risk, getting injured, getting killed, spending Christmases away from their families, etc., the military has become sacred.  For folks who grew up in the 80s: do you remember MASH?  Private Benjamin, Stripes?  Go back further: Mr. Roberts, Kelly's Heroes, Operation Petticoat.  When was the last time you've seen a movie or TV series that lampooned the military?  The military is more sacred today than it was shortly after WW2.  And that militarization of our culture has contributed to the rise of nationalism, out of control military spending, and, yes, President Donald Trump.  We need to stop fighting wars.  This should be one of the progressive/liberal/Democrats' highest priorities.   

 

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M12BH
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SInce y'all seem to be my clearinghouse for all things political, let me tell a story.  A couple of them, actually.  Three, if you want to be specific. When I was 14 I went with a family frien

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Your point is a powerful one when it comes to the lesson of "think about it long and hard before you step into that shit."  It's not nearly as powerful once we already decided to step into it.  Now we're committed -- even Colin Powell noted that if you break it, you buy it.  

How about you don’t throw good money (and lives) after bad?

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

Imagine it being Donald Trump (not our former President and Peace Prize winner) being the guy to end that fucking horror show in Afghanistan.  hahahahahaha

The horror show in Afghanistan would continue, and would probably get worse.  We just wouldn't be one of the actors anymore.  I support that. 

 

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

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3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Let me guess Trump wanting to pull out of Syria is a terrible decision?

The only people that think that are our military leadership, republican and democratic leadership, our allies in around the world and in that region. 

But not everybody hates it, Texags, Iran, Russia and Turkey love it. 

So just depends on what side of the fence you sit on. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105127

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1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

How about you don’t throw good money (and lives) after bad?

What's your timeframe?

What are we going to do when the vacuum we leave allows ISIS to redevelop into a better-educated, more potent force, that actually reaches out and takes action against Americans and targets in the US, and then we DO need to respond militarily.  Again.  To clean up the mess we created.  And then allowed to fester to its inevitable and utterly predictable conclusion.

The world in which we are not going to have to use US military force to react to threats to Americans and the US in particular emanating from this region does not exist.  It will not exist in any future I foresee.  Our only choice when it comes to committing ourselves to military action is WHEN.  We play the chessboard as it lies, not as you'd like it to have looked in the first place.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Tuco said:

The horror show in Afghanistan would continue, and would probably get worse.  We just wouldn't be one of the actors anymore.  I support that. 

 

The end result wouldn't be pretty, but I think the violence there would decline substantially if we reached a peaceful settlement with the Taliban.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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1 minute ago, Lagunamadre said:

The only people that think that are our military leadership, republican and democratic leadership, our allies in around the world and in that region. 

But not everybody hates it, Texags, Iran, Russia and Turkey love it. 

So just depends on what side of the fence you sit on. 

Military leadership-obvious

Rep and Dem leaders- bought and paid for by military industrial complex

Our allies- glad we’re footing the bill and putting our ass on the line. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Beyond the foreign policy implications, people need to recognize what perpetual war has done to our culture.  We have been become a militant people.  Because soldiers are constantly at risk, getting injured, getting killed, spending Christmases away from their families, etc., the military has become sacred.  For folks who grew up in the 80s: do you remember MASH?  Private Benjamin, Stripes?  Go back further: Mr. Roberts, Kelly's Heroes, Operation Petticoat.  When was the last time you've seen a movie or TV series that lampooned the military?  The military is more sacred today than it was shortly after WW2.  And that militarization of our culture has contributed to the rise of nationalism, out of control military spending, and, yes, President Donald Trump.  We need to stop fighting wars.  This should be one of the progressive/liberal/Democrats' highest priorities.   

We should stop STARTING wars.  

However, we should keep the peace and resolve conflicts with the goal being reducing casualties. 

We should not pull out of South Korea, Germany, Japan, or other countries that host our troops. 

Those deployments pay for themselves. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What's your timeframe?

What are we going to do when the vacuum we leave allows ISIS to redevelop into a better-educated, more potent force, that actually reaches out and takes action against Americans and targets in the US, and then we DO need to respond militarily.  Again.  To clean up the mess we created.  And then allowed to fester to its inevitable and utterly predictable conclusion.

The world in which we are not going to have to use US military force to react to threats to Americans and the US in particular emanating from this region does not exist.  It will not exist in any future I foresee.  Our only choice when it comes to committing ourselves to military action is WHEN.  We play the chessboard as it lies, not as you'd like it to have looked in the first place.

So, it’s my understanding we have 2,000 or so troops there in Syria. What do you think of that number?  Should we send more?

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

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5 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

If the GoFunMe doesn't reach their goal (they won't come close) then the money goes back to those that donated. The only way this benefits the creator is by giving him publicity.

SIAP. My go Fund Me to raise $ for laptops for my classroom (thank you Shaggy) allowed me to withdraw $ as it was deposited, goal met or not. Maybe the rules are different for large amount GFM's or since the case where a crew faked a homeless man giving pizza to someone else then started a GFM for him. They got busted.

 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We should stop STARTING wars.  

However, we should keep the peace and resolve conflicts with the goal being reducing casualties. 

We should not pull out of South Korea, Germany, Japan, or other countries that host our troops. 

Those deployments pay for themselves. 

The trolls are not interested in such arguments. They want to just claim everyone is against their stupid corrupt orange god and so the rest and facts be damned. 

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The end result wouldn't be pretty, but I think the violence there would decline substantially if we reached a peaceful settlement with the Taliban.

There was a civil war in the country before we got involved.  There were some of the worst human rights violations there before we got involved.  There is no real centralized Taliban to reach an agreement with, and it would be completely unenforceable once it's obvious we have no stomach to enforce it.  

I'm good with a return to 2002 policy: feed money, intel, and necessary weapons to the factions we support and leave it to them to figure out how to control the country.  But I won't pretend it will make things better for the average citizen there. 

 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

So, it’s my understanding we have 2,000 or so troops there in Syria. What do you think of that number?  Should we send more?

I don't think the suggestion is to send more or less troops. I don't even think people are completely against pulling out. I do think every rational person should be against leaving on an idiot's whim, without any advise or suggestions from the experts, and without any planning. 

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We should stop STARTING wars.  

Show of hands: Do you remember when we started the Syria war.  Or the Nigerian war.  Or the Somalian war.  

We are in a global war.  There is no end, until we decide it needs to end. 

 

 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15531

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2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think the suggestion is to send more or less troops. I don't even think people are completely against pulling out. I do think every rational person should be against leaving on an idiot's whim, without any advise or suggestions from the experts, and without any planning. 

Thank you for synthesizing that.

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Grandioso

Grandioso 2592

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Today’s been a fun day at the capitol. Basically we have a hostage crisis on our hands and the person making the demands is a neurosyphilitic mushbrain. Meanwhile, he’s double crossed all of the republican henchmen that helped him break into the bank vault.


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Tuco

Tuco 5076

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3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think the suggestion is to send more or less troops. I don't even think people are completely against pulling out. I do think every rational person should be against leaving on an idiot's whim, without any advise or suggestions from the experts, and without any planning. 

Agreed.  Although given a choice between him bungling out of a war or competently staying in one, I'll pick the former.  

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29907

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The colossal error of invading Iraq continues to drain the US. We pulled special forces from Afghanistan where they were actually succeeding in their basic mission as special forces. We drop the ball there to leap into a morass in Mesopotamia.

I'm not sure what the policy should be in Syria. Frankly, I haven't read much about it in the last year. Maybe we should get out. I don't know.

Tasked with making the decision to pull out, I'd likely confer with military experts, State Department specialists, and likely a few international partners to gauge the effect.

Trump gets a wild hair up his ass and tweets out policy based on snap judgments about what will look good for him or distract from what looks bad for him.

Like other decisions he tweets to the world or blurts out, it's almost silly to discuss his motives and process like you would with any prior president. This is a whole new world. This is not carefully reasoned policy. It's not even pragmatic political policy. It's just whatever crosses this dolt's mind in the moment.

He said it himself. He goes with his gut. He's been a failure his entire life doing so.

Edited by RomaVicta
Well done DAHobbs
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horn4life

horn4life 3760

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What is sad about Syria, the wall, tax cuts, Turkey, Europe, Great Britain, immigration etc., is that Trumps supporters actually believe that his very big brain and great gut instinct are better than ALL the conflicting factual information.  The idea that the same gut and big brain surrounded himself with more convicted felons, corrupt cabinet members and the necessity to lie constantly is completely discounted.

Now Mattis is gone so the last adult in the room is leaving....

 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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22 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yes. Trump making important military decisions without consulting with his joint chief or staff or anyone else besides Israel is a terrible decision. I’m glad you agree. 

To a hammer, the world is a nail.

I’m sure they’d like to stay there longer.  Probably even bump up spending and manpower there.  Doesn’t mean it’s right. 

He’s the Commander in Chief. He has the say. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

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16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think the suggestion is to send more or less troops. I don't even think people are completely against pulling out. I do think every rational person should be against leaving on an idiot's whim, without any advise or suggestions from the experts, and without any planning. 

Where’s the link stating he decided this on his own?

Anyway, if the joint chiefs advised against it and he still wanted to pull out, you’d be ok with it? Because he can do that obviously.

Then someone can run against him and state how we need to have more troops stationed all over the Middle East indefinitely. Sounds like a good issue. 

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BrickHorn

BrickHorn 18231

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14 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

Today’s been a fun day at the capitol. Basically we have a hostage crisis on our hands and the person making the demands is a neurosyphilitic mushbrain. Meanwhile, he’s double crossed all of the republican henchmen that helped him break into the bank vault.


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The only ones who didn’t see that coming were the arrogant frogs who offered to carry that orange scorpion.

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Grandioso

Grandioso 2592

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Mattis out. Trump to sign farm bill to bail out farmers he fucked over with tariffs using money borrowed from China. Republicans scrambling around trying to adjust their votes with trump’s tweets, and don’t have the votes to build even a couple of miles of a figment of the trumpkin base’s imagination. Military preparing to withdraw from Syria on Putin & Erdogan’s orders.

These things are all happening simultaneously.


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horn4life

horn4life 3760

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The one thing that is good about this is Trump is going to truly flush the 2020 election down the drain.  Which means the GOP will likely turn gradually on him as the Dems simply do a little due dilligence in oversight and the slime of the swamp that is the Trump Whitehouse will be shown over and over again to the American people.  Which means likely in the middle to latter part of next year it will be clear that Trump is unfit to be President.  Since the ONLY principles the GOP has now is to try and get reelected, the chances of impeachment passing the Senate will grow.

181217183806-20181217-2020-election-map-

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