Donald Trump 2018

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

In primaries, yes. Done in secret, yes. The idea of a primary is to let the locals decide who they want and then the national party should step in and help whoever won the local primary beat the opposing party.

The Democratic Party is fucking garbage and I hope they burn.

What you're describing isn't party politics.   It's never been done any other way, in either party.  The DNC is a national organization with the goal to win races and pursue a particular platform.   You don't get to represent the party in a general without some influence by them in the primaries.   If local candidates don't like it, they don't have to run as Democrats. 

[DDD Dad 14251]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

What you're describing isn't party politics.   It's never been done any other way, in either party.  The DNC is a national organization with the goal to win races and pursue a particular platform.   You don't get to represent the party in a general without some influence by them in the primaries.   If local candidates don't like it, they don't have to run as Democrats. 

This is the Donald Trump thread, right? 

Focus, people.  This is an interesting topic that would make for a worthwhile separate thread.  Not here.

[Tuco 5076]

6 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

What you're describing isn't party politics.   It's never been done any other way, in either party.  The DNC is a national organization with the goal to win races and pursue a particular platform.   You don't get to represent the party in a general without some influence by them in the primaries.   If local candidates don't like it, they don't have to run as Democrats. 

Have you been involved in party politics?

I've been involved since shortly after Trump's election.  Prior to that involvement, I would have assumed you were correct.  But, per the bylaws and charters, and all that shit, the party isn't suppose to pick sides prior to the primary.  I get that individual Dems - even powerful ones within the DNC leadership - are allowed to endorse who they want and play favorites.  But they should not be using the party machinery to support their personal preferences. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Tuco

[TornACL 7675]

Everybody's been so worried about US vs THEM that a lot of people haven't stopped to realize that both parties are corrupt to high heaven and largely full of complete pieces of shit who drown out the voices of the few remaining decent humans in Washington.

[Brisketexan 104593]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

What you're describing isn't party politics.   It's never been done any other way, in either party.  The DNC is a national organization with the goal to win races and pursue a particular platform.   You don't get to represent the party in a general without some influence by them in the primaries.   If local candidates don't like it, they don't have to run as Democrats. 

Two things can be true:

1 -- it's perfectly appropriate for a party organization to "play favorites" in a primary  -- it's well within their rights.

2 -- the Dems may be doing a shitty job of it, and may piss off their rank-and-file members in a way that costs the party much-needed support.

 

When driving, oversteering is bad, as is taking your hands off the wheel altogether.  You gotta find the sweet spot.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I would like to award the poster Fozzz 5 internet points for successfully derailing the fuck out of this thread. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

3 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Buck Sexton is a real name?

Wasn't that Don Cheadle's character in Boogie Nights?



 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Tuco said:

Have you been involved in party politics?

I've been involved since shortly after Trump's election.  Prior to that involvement, I would have assumed you were correct.  But, per the bylines and charters, and all that shit, the party isn't suppose to pick sides prior to the primary.  I get that individual Dems - even powerful ones within the DNC leadership - are allowed to endorse who they want and play favorites.  But they should not be using the party machinery to support their personal preferences. 

Yes, with a local candidate.  And the party favored a different Dem in the primary.   I don't know anything about bylaws and charters — link whatever you've got.   But they did what they did to Laura Moser pretty openly.  As the GOP is doing with Blankenship.  And the Dems have public lists of certain favored primary candidates — like the DCCC's red to blue list.  So I'd be surprised if there is really a prohibition on putting party resources into a primary on one side. 

[Anastasis 23394]

1 minute ago, TornACL said:

Everybody's been so worried about US vs THEM that a lot of people haven't stopped to realize that both parties are corrupt to high heaven and largely full of complete pieces of shit who drown out the voices of the few remaining decent humans in Washington.

[TornACL 7675]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I would like to award the poster Fozzz 5 internet points for successfully derailing the fuck out of this thread. 

Come on, bro. It's not like Donald Trump won't tweet, say or do something stupid in the next 30 minutes to get us right back on track.

[DDD Dad 14251]

Both sides!

[Fozzz 152]

What the DCCC did to Laura Moser really is despicable.  

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/05/dccc-laura-moser-california-democrats/

[Sawbonz 27422]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Two things can be true:

1 -- it's perfectly appropriate for a party organization to "play favorites" in a primary  -- it's well within their rights.

2 -- the Dems may be doing a shitty job of it, and may piss off their rank-and-file members in a way that costs the party much-needed support.

 

When driving, oversteering is bad, as is taking your hands off the wheel altogether.  You gotta find the sweet spot.

Just one comment and we can drop the derailment. For all the criticism the DNC has gotten for clearing the field for hillary, if only the RNC would have operated that way we most likely wouldn’t be in this mess. Imagine if they had strong armed all but a couple out of the race early on. Trump may not have gotten traction. Hell as it stood, they even had a chance to deny him the nomination at the convention despite his delegate count per their bylaws. More than one pundit on NPR the week before thought they would. But they were idiots and or cowards and here we are

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

What the DCCC did to Laura Moser really is despicable.  

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/05/dccc-laura-moser-california-democrats/

If you think that's despicable, take a look at the GOP's open war on Don Blankenship.   The DNC has backed off Moser, but the Blankenship thing is happening right now:  http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/383645-gop-intensifies-war-against-blankenship-in-west-virginia

[DixonHur 11197]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just one comment and we can drop the derailment. For all the criticism the DNC has gotten for clearing the field for hillary, if only the RNC would have operated that way we most likely wouldn’t be in this mess. Imagine if they had strong armed all but a couple out of the race early on. Trump may not have gotten traction. Hell as it stood, they even had a chance to deny him the nomination at the convention despite his delegate count per their bylaws. More than one pundit on NPR the week before thought they would. But they were idiots and or cowards and here we are

Not to mention the entire reason for the creation of the Electoral College was to save us from just this scenario.  The whole system is full  of cowards.

[Anastasis 23394]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

If you think that's despicable, take a look at the GOP's open war on Don Blankenship.   The DNC has backed off Moser, but the Blankenship thing is happening right now:  http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/383645-gop-intensifies-war-against-blankenship-in-west-virginia

Both sides!

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Both sides!

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Both sides!

You're misreading sarcasm.  It's "neither side." I just said one post before that it's completely fine, and in fact common, for a party to back a particular candidate in a primary.  The GOP is right to fight Blankenship, and the Dems were right to point out some shit about Moser, although they did it hamhandedly

[Anastasis 23394]

Democracy under this system captured by the Democrats and Republicans sure is something. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The false equivalency and whataboutism between the Dems and the GOP is spectacular to witness. 

[jimmyjazz 45554]

Start a different thread, Fozzzz.

[Fozzz 152]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just one comment and we can drop the derailment. For all the criticism the DNC has gotten for clearing the field for hillary, if only the RNC would have operated that way we most likely wouldn’t be in this mess. Imagine if they had strong armed all but a couple out of the race early on. Trump may not have gotten traction. Hell as it stood, they even had a chance to deny him the nomination at the convention despite his delegate count per their bylaws. More than one pundit on NPR the week before thought they would. But they were idiots and or cowards and here we are

lol yes the solution is clearly to be less democratic in how we go about selecting our political leaders 

[Sawbonz 27422]

Guess who never took a logic course

 

meant for Hugo works for fozzz

Edited April 26, 2018 by Sawbonz

[Fozzz 152]

Well, just doing away with popular elections altogether would be one way of addressing the Trump issue.  I won't argue that point.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Democracy under this system captured by the Democrats and Republicans sure is something. 

Agreed.  But people can run as independents.  The problem is not just money, which we've all discussed, but also a disengaged populace (which is actually also the reason money matters so much, because its whole purpose is to reach voters).   We're all guilty.  I often go to the polls without knowing anything about the minor local candidates, and I make a quick decision looking them up on my phone while waiting in line.  And that's probably more than most people do.   If the D and R branding didn't have so much weight on the ballot in the general, candidates wouldn't have so much pressure to go through the party process. 

People think of D and R as our system of government and then are shocked to find out that they are influencing who gets to run under their banner.  But they're doing what they're supposed to be doing (dirty tricks like feeding debate questions to Hillary and targeting Bernie's religion was crossing a line though).  It's us who are at fault for making their proprietary party deliberations outcome determinative in the Fall. 

And sorry everyone for getting derailed.  No more posts on this from me. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Captainant 27447]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Well, just doing away with popular elections altogether would be one way of addressing the Trump issue.  I won't argue that point.

You should probably make a thread for this topic and stop derailing this one. There's significant trump news happening that you're drowning out, my dude

[David Dennison 18655]

23 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

What the DCCC did to Laura Moser really is despicable.  

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/05/dccc-laura-moser-california-democrats/

You would think that a political party acting like a political party might convince people upset with said party that it might be time to leave that party and stop supporting its candidates.

Edited April 26, 2018 by David Dennison

[Fozzz 152]

In the interest of topicality, y'all should watch that Trump interview on Fox and Friends.  It's pretty funny.

[F250 28681]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Democracy under this system captured by the Democrats and Republicans sure is something. 

In a two party system, the primaries are supposed to be where multiple political ideologies are included in the democratic process. This is supposed to be how most political views get represented. Of course we know this isn't what happens but what is really insulting is when party loyalists insult 3rd party voters for acting as a spoiler.

Motherfuckers, if you eliminate minority voices from your process don't expect their vote in the general election.

[Anastasis 23394]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Agreed.  But people can run as independents. 

*shakes head*

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

One could argue the GOP nomination was rigged too in a way but it involves Cambridge Analytica/SCL so that's going to come off tin foil. 

CA worked for Cruz, Carson, and Trump during the campaign in a overloaded field of candidates IIRC. 

[bolverk 29399]

Getting this thread back on track. A really nice summary of Trump's Fox & Friends interview this morning:

Donald From D.C. Calls in to Fox and Friends

President Trump isn’t great at avoiding trouble. On Thursday alone, his nominee to lead the Department of Veterans Affairs, Ronny Jackson, withdrew amid allegations of misconduct; his EPA administrator, Scott Pruitt, is set to be grilled about allegations of misconduct on Capitol Hill; and his long-time fixer, Michael Cohen, was set to appear at a court hearing in Manhattan, a day after saying he’d invoke his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in a suit in California.

But if Trump can’t avoid problems, when they crop up, he can at least try to grab the spotlight himself. That’s what the president did during a wide-ranging and characteristically bizarre call-in to Fox and Friends Thursday morning. It was the president’s first television interview in some time—he called in to another Fox show two months ago—and he didn’t hesitate to make news, if not sense. The hosts seemed shellshocked when it was over.

“I think he was awake and had a lot to say,” Steve Doocy said.

“He is a morning person,” Brian Kilmeade replied.

Summarizing the interview would be impossible, but there were a number of moments that stood out. Trump appeared to contradict earlier denials, saying that Michael Cohen had represented him in a matter with Stormy Daniels, who has alleged an affair. He defended Jackson, saying the allegations against him were false. He repeatedly threatened to intervene in the Justice Department, and accused former FBI Director James Comey of crimes. He appeared to endorse the popular vote over the Electoral College. He disclosed new details of talks with North Korea. For good measure, he complained about Hillary Clinton and Democratic primary debates two years ago.

Trump defended Jackson, saying, “These are all false accusations. These are false. They are trying to destroy a man.” He predicted that Senator Jon Tester, a Montana Democrat who has spoken the most about the allegations publicly, would be punished in his reelection campaign. Trump brushed aside concerns that Jackson was not equipped to run the federal government’s second-largest department. “We can talk about experience but the VA, when you think about 13 million people, you could take the head of the biggest hospital corporation of the world and it's peanuts compared to the VA. So nobody has experience,” Trump said. He said he had picked a new VA nominee, someone “with political capability,” but would not name the person.

Trump distanced himself from Cohen, who is defending a lawsuit from Daniels and is also fighting in New York to shield documents seized by the FBI from federal prosecutors. Trump has also intervened to try to hold the documents back, saying they are privileged attorney-client communications.

“Michael is a businessman,” he said. “He has got a business. He also practices law. I would say probably the big thing is his business and they're looking [at] something having to do with his business. I have nothing to do with his business, I can tell you.”

Trump said that Cohen had represented him in a “tiny little fraction” of legal cases: “Like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me.” Trump previously said he did not know of the $130,000 payment that Cohen arranged to Daniels in exchange for his silence about an alleged past affair with Trump.

Underscoring the danger of such a free-wheeling interview, federal prosecutors in Manhattan filed court documents less than two hours later citing Trump’s “tiny little fraction” remark to bolster their claim that most of the documents seized from Cohen are not privileged.

Trump railed against Comey, the Justice Department, and Mueller’s team, which he characterized as politically motivated. He called Comey a “leaker” and a “liar” who had disclosed classified information, charges he had made before, but for which there is no conclusive evidence.

Fox and Friends is very friendly territory for Trump, but even Doocy pushed back on the president’s rhetoric about Comey.

“He is guilty of crimes and if we had a Justice Department that was doing their job instead of—” Trump was railing, when Doocy cut in to remind him: “It is your Justice Department, Mr. President. You're the Republican in charge of it, you got a Republican running it.”

“I have taken the position, and I don't have to take this position and maybe I'll change, that I will not be involved with the Justice Department,” Trump said. This is not a magnanimous, unusual stand to take: Since Watergate, presidents have granted the department broad leeway to act independently, and have not demanded specific prosecutions.

“It is all lies and it is a horrible thing that is going on, a horrible thing,” Trump continued. “Yet I have accomplished with all of this going on more than any president in the first year in our history. Everybody, even the enemies and haters admit that. We have accomplished more than any president in the first year by far.” No part of this statement is true.

Later, as the hosts tried to get him to wrap up the interview, Trump repeated his threat to intervene, bringing up fired FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. “Our Justice Department, which I try and stay away from, but at some point I won't, our Justice Department should be looking at that kind of stuff, not the nonsense of collusion with Russia.” (The department’s inspector general has already referred McCabe for prosecution.)

Trump did, however, acknowledge having spent a night in Russia during the 2013 Miss Universe pageant. In recently leaked memos, Comey said that Trump had twice claimed he did not stay there overnight.

Trump also shed new light on talks with North Korea, including a trip by CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Trump’s nominee to replace Rex Tillerson as secretary of state.

“He wasn't supposed to meet with Kim Jong-Un but he did,” Trump said. “We have incredible pictures of the two talking and meeting which I would love to release if we can … They were with each other more than an hour.” Trump also suggested that Pompeo had met with North Korea’s top spymaster. “He also spoke with his counterparts in north Korea. They had a great meeting. He then left. It was very, very secret,” he said, without apparent irony. The president said that discussions had narrowed to three or four dates and five locations for a summit between himself and Kim.

The hosts also asked Trump to weigh in on a series of supportive tweets by Kanye West on Wednesday. He attributed West’s comments to dropping black unemployment, and suggested that the GOP could win over African American voters. “People don't realize, if you go back to the Civil War the Republicans really did the thing. Lincoln was a Republican,” he said, citing an extremely well-known fact.

As the interview reached its end, the hosts tossed the president a softball, asking him how he’d grade his performance. His grade was predictable—A+—as was the meandering nature of his answer. He didn’t miss the chance to bring up Hillary Clinton and the 2016 election. He noted his Electoral College triumph, but said, “I would rather have the popular vote because it's, to me, it's much easier to win the popular vote.” Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes.

Finally, Kilmeade stepped in to politely cut Trump off and to offer him a graceful closing. “We could talk all day but looks like you have a million things to do,” Kilmeade said, and brought the interview to an end. Trump has only one event listed on his public schedule for the day.

 

[David Dennison 18655]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

In a two party system, the primaries are supposed to be where multiple political ideologies are included in the democratic process. This is supposed to be how most political views get represented. Of course we know this isn't what happens but what is really insulting is when party loyalists insult 3rd party voters for acting as a spoiler.

Motherfuckers, if you eliminate minority voices from your process don't expect their vote in the general election.

The problem is, multiple political ideologies end up running under the banner of a party that doesn't necessarily share those ideologies. The Democratic Party is well within its rights to support the candidate that it believes best reflects its political platform. That's its raison d'être.

[Sawbonz 27422]

Fuck you Hugo

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

One could argue the GOP nomination was rigged too in a way but it involves Cambridge Analytica/SCL so that's going to come off tin foil. 

CA worked for Cruz, Carson, and Trump during the campaign in a overloaded field of candidates IIRC. 

 

[F250 28681]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You should probably make a thread for this topic and stop derailing this one. There's significant trump news happening that you're drowning out, my dude

Let me guess, Trump's a retard and said or tweeted some retarded shit. People associated with Trump may have done some illegal shit as well as said some retarded shit.

 

 

[SmokeyBear1861 107]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

Let me guess, Trump's a retard and said or tweeted some retarded shit. People associated with Trump may have done some illegal shit as well as said some retarded shit.

 

 

 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Fuck you Hugo

 

Well, Cambridge Analytica's entire business model is rigging elections around the world as a non-state foreign actor so...

[Sawbonz 27422]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

We can talk about experience but the VA, when you think about 13 million people, you could take the head of the biggest hospital corporation of the world and it's peanuts compared to the VA. So nobody has experience,” Trump said

This has to be top 5 dumbest things he’s ever said

 

ok maybe not but top 10 for sure

[Francisco 2.0 32323]

Um, doesn't he realize that without the Electoral College, he wouldn't be President?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/26/trump-electoral-college-popular-vote-555148

Quote

President Donald Trump on Thursday voiced support for doing away with the Electoral College for presidential elections in favor of a popular vote because the latter would be “much easier to win.”

The president’s support for a popular-vote presidential election came as an aside during a free-wheeling Thursday morning interview with “Fox & Friends,” the Fox News morning show he is known to watch and where he receives almost unflinchingly positive coverage. Trump made the remark amid a larger point about public figures who publicly support him in turn benefitting from a boost of popularity from Trump supporters.

 

“Remember we won the election. And we won it easily. You know, a lot of people say ‘oh, it was close.’ And by the way, they also like to always talk about Electoral College. Well it’s an election based on the electoral college. I would rather have a popular election, but it’s a totally different campaign,” Trump said. “It’s as though you're running – if you're a runner, you're practicing for the 100-yard dash as opposed to the one-mile.”

“The electoral college is different. I would rather have the popular vote because it's, to me, it's much easier to win the popular vote,” he continued.

 

[David Dennison 18655]

1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Um, doesn't he realize that without the Electoral College, he wouldn't be President?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/26/trump-electoral-college-popular-vote-555148

 

To be fair, he's really dumb.

[Fozzz 152]

Just now, Francisco 2.0 said:

Um, doesn't he realize that without the Electoral College, he wouldn't be President?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/26/trump-electoral-college-popular-vote-555148

 

That's because he ran a campaign for winning the Electoral College, not the popular vote.  He says so right in the quoted passage.

[Sawbonz 27422]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Well, Cambridge Analytica's entire business model is rigging elections around the world as a non-state foreign actor so...

Let me know when they reveal how CA kept Hillary out of Philly, Pittsburg, Wayne County and Milwaukee during crunch time

[Francisco 2.0 32323]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

That's because he ran a campaign for winning the Electoral College, not the popular vote.  He says so right in the quoted passage.

Yeah.  Like that would have made any difference.

In his mind, sure.  In reality...he ran a "national" campaign.  And he lost the popular vote.

Exactly how he would have campaigned differently in, say the Bay Area vs. Texas is a comical exercise.  

[kevwun 15643]

Quote

“Yet I have accomplished with all of this going on more than any president in the first year in our history. Everybody, even the enemies and haters admit that. We have accomplished more than any president in the first year by far.” No part of this statement is true. 

Of all his lies, this one bothers me the most because it is so obviously false and he regularly repeats it.  A sane person does not lie this egregiously because it is so easily proven to be a lie.  The only metrics in which he has accomplished more than other President in their first year are resignations and scandals.

Edited April 26, 2018 by kevwun

[F250 28681]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The problem is, multiple political ideologies end up running under the banner of a party that doesn't necessarily share those ideologies. The Democratic Party is well within its rights to support the candidate that it believes best reflects its political platform. That's its raison d'être.

The primaries are supposed to be how the platform is shaped, it's supposed to be fluid based on the outcome of the primaries. If a political minority is shunned from the primary process then don't be surprised when a 3rd party steps into represent that minority in the general election (steal votes away.)

 

[TornACL 7675]

When you listen to that phone-in to Fox and Friends, it really hits home how absolutely pathetic it is that we elected this imbecile as our President.

I used to always hate when people used hyperbole to describe past presidents...Bush 43 was a "moron", etc. Because one day we might have an actual moron in the White House, and not enough people would take the descriptor seriously. Well, here we are.

There is not a single word that comes out of that man's mouth that isn't directly aimed at self-preservation or self-promotion.

 

[Blotto 23432]

10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This has to be top 5 dumbest things he’s ever said

 

ok maybe not but top 10 for sure

We're talking just today, right?

[Brisketexan 104593]

3 minutes ago, Blotto said:

We're talking just today, right?

...before lunch.

[hayden_horn 11360]

Quote

Trump said that Cohen had represented him in a “tiny little fraction” of legal cases: “Like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal, he represented me.” Trump previously said he did not know of the $130,000 payment that Cohen arranged to Daniels in exchange for his silence about an alleged past affair with Trump.

Underscoring the danger of such a free-wheeling interview, federal prosecutors in Manhattan filed court documents less than two hours later citing Trump’s “tiny little fraction” remark to bolster their claim that most of the documents seized from Cohen are not privileged.

whoops

Edited April 26, 2018 by hayden_horn